Author Topic: more lives ruined by trumpism.  (Read 1957 times)

funk51

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more lives ruined by trumpism.
« on: February 11, 2021, 10:17:20 AM »
Police: Lancaster County attorney had guns, ammo, and was on his way to Washington D.C. to kill government officials when stopped in Shippensburg
Kenelm Shirk III allegedly threatened to kill his wife and told her he was going to kill government officials prior to his arrest on Jan. 21, police allege.

Author: Keith Schweigert (FOX43)
Published: 9:58 AM EST February 3, 2021
Updated: 5:22 PM EST February 3, 2021
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A 71-year-old Lebanon County man was carrying an AR-15 rifle, two handguns, rope, gloves, a large amount of ammunition, and $5,000 in cash and was allegedly on his way to Washington, D.C. to kill government officials when he was arrested in Shippensburg last month, according to charging documents filed by Pennsylvania State Police.


Kenelm L. Shirk III, of the 1000 block of Bell Tower Drive near Cornwall, was taken into custody on Jan. 21, according to the criminal complaint affidavit.

He was taken into custody at a Sheetz store near Shippensburg by troopers stationed along Interstate 81 South to detain him.

Police issued a bulletin for Shirk after his wife contacted authorities, seeking an involuntary detainment following an argument over the results of the 2020 presidential election, charging documents say.

Shirk allegedly threatened her life and told her he was planning to attack government officials in Washington, and claimed he would "suicide by cop" if met by police along the way, according to the complaint.

Shirk, who is a member of a law firm in Ephrata, Lancaster County, and is the longtime solicitor for Akron borough, left his Lebanon County home on Jan. 21, his spouse reported.

State Police pinged his cell phone to determine his location, and took him into custody at 8:25 p.m. that night. Police discovered the rifle, handguns and ammunition, which were clearly visible in his vehicle at the time of his arrest.

On Jan. 22, police say, a nurse at the Chambersburg Hospital Emergency Room who performed a mental evaluation on Shirk after his capture told police he sounded serious when he spoke of killing his wife and members of the government.

If Shirk had gone on to complete his plan, she told police, "she did not want to see it on the news and feel like she was responsible," according to the complaint.

Police took Shirk to the hospital for an evaluation related to the request from Shirk's wife that he be involuntarily committed, the complaint states.

During her evaluation, the nurse told police, Shirk allegedly said he would "kill his wife, but not today" in a monotone, deadpan voice.

He allegedly told the nurse he had planned to stop in Alexandria, Virginia to see his son and deliver a present for his granddaughter.

He also said he "had to get up early enough to beat traffic and make it to the government officials' houses before they left for work" in Washington, the complaint states.

Shirk allegedly said he was 71 years old and inferred that he was ready to die, the nurse told police.

A second ER nurse who spoke to police on the phone after Shirk's visit to the ER said that while looking through Shirk's possessions, she found a piece of paper with a to-do list on it. The list mentioned things like birthday gifts and other daily activities, the nurse reported. But on the other side of the page, there were things like "guns, ammo, rope, tools, meds, magazine" written down. The nurse said she took a picture of the list, which she provided to police, according to the complaint.

In a briefcase belonging to Shirk, one nurse found a bag of 50 quarter-sized plastic crosses.

"It was almost as if (Shirk) intended to leave them at the crime scene," the nurse told police, according to the complaint.

Both nurses reported they found Shirk to be intimidating and disconcerting.

One of the nurses, who said she had been in the medical field for 16 years, reported she found Shirk's behavior particularly disturbing, and did not want to go to work knowing a patient like him was at the hospital.

"She had a strong gut feeling and instinct that this was more than just a guy who was having a bad day and angry about the election," police said in the complaint.

Shirk is being held in Franklin County Prison without bail. He is charged with two counts of terroristic threats.

A preliminary hearing is scheduled for Feb. 8 before Chambersburg District Judge Glenn Manns.

 
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funk51

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2021, 10:20:15 AM »
Eastern Pa. man among the dead during rioting at the U.S. Capitol
 
MATT MILLER
pennlive.com (TNS)
 JAN 8, 2021 7:46 AM
A 50-year-old Schuylkill County man is among the dead from Wednesday’s rioting on Capitol Hill.

News agencies are reporting that Washington, D.C., Metropolitan Police have confirmed one of the fatalities was Benjamin Phillips of Ringtown. Police said he died as a result of an “apparent medical emergency.”

Phillips was among four people who died as a mob stormed the U.S. Capitol while Congress was certifying the vote from the November presidential election. The riot erupted moments after President Donald Trump gave an incendiary speech repeating his unsubstantiated claims that the election was stolen from him.

Capitol police Officer Brian D. Sicknick died Thursday from injuries suffered “while physically engaging with protesters” during Wednesday’s melee, according to authorities.

 
Riot police push back a crowd of supporters of President Donald Trump after they stormed the Capitol building in Washington, DC. on Wednesday. A U.S. Capitol Police officer has died of injuries sustained during clashes with a mob of President Donald Trump's supporters who overran a session of Congress, police said late on January 7, 2021.
Marc Santora, Megan Specia and Mike Baker
A Capitol Police officer dies from injuries in pro-Trump rampage
 

Investigators also said one woman, Ashli Babbitt, 35, of San Diego, Calif., was fatally shot by a Capitol Police officer as she climbed through a window wearing a Trump flag as a cape.

Police identified the other fatalities as a man and a woman who like Phillips died as a result of apparent medical emergencies.

First Published January 8, 2021, 7:46am


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This driver's license photo from the Maryland Motor Vehicle Administration, provided to AP by the Calvert County Sheriff’s Office, shows Ashli Babbitt. Babbitt was fatally shot by an employee of the Capitol Police inside the U.S. Capitol building in Washington on Wednesday, Jan. 6, 2021, while the rioters were moving toward the House chamber.                   COLUMBIA COUNTY
Bloomsburg man, founder of Trumparoo, dies in D.C. protests
Police said 50-year-old Ben Philips had a medical emergency.

Author: Carolyn Blackburne
Published: 9:43 PM EST January 7, 2021
Updated: 11:14 PM EST January 7, 2021
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WASHINGTON D.C., DC — After chaos erupted at the U.S. Capitol with President Donald Trump's supporters storming the building, Washington DC police said four people died.

A fifth person has died Thursday evening, a Capitol police officer who suffered a stroke during the protest.

One of them was  Ben Philips, 50, who had a medical emergency. Police said he was from Ringtown, but friends say he was actually from Bloomsburg.


Philips organized a bus trip to go down to Washington DC Wednesday and, in his words, "fight for Trump."

"I was in total shock. I almost was on that bus. I was going to go down to D.C., but I decided to stay up here and monitor the situation from up here," Friend Andrew Shecktor said.

Philips led a busload of Trump supporters early Wednesday morning from the corner of Main Street and Market in Bloomsburg all the way to Washington DC to protest.

It was one of many pro-Trump events that Philips organized.

"We actually met at a Trump rally earlier in 2020, and then he said he was going to give out these Trumparoo things that he had come up with and I said, 'what the heck is a Trumparoo?' and he said, 'well, why don't you come by and take a look at them,'" Shecktor said.

Trumparoo was a kangaroo dressed as Trump. Philips sold the stuffed animals at rallies.

"He showed me this thing, and I said that's pretty cool. That's really pretty neat," Shecktor said.

He also created a social media website called Trumparoo that connected fellow Trump supporters.

This is how Shecktor will remember Philips.

"Very sure of himself, very nice, warm individual," he said.
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funk51

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2021, 10:24:14 AM »
Retired Chester firefighter, accused of throwing extinguisher at Capitol police during riot, faces federal charges
 
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By Jim Melwert KYW Newsradio

Updated on January 14, 2021
9:18 pm

PHILADELPHIA (KYW Newsradio) — A retired Chester firefighter is in federal custody for allegations surrounding his involvement in the Jan. 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol.

According to federal charging documents, 55-year-old Robert Sanford is seen in a video throwing a fire extinguisher at several Capitol police officers. The fire extinguisher hit three officers in the head. Two of the officers were wearing a helmet; one was not.



Sanford faces federal charges of assaulting police, entering a restricted area without permission, civil disorder, and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds.

A federal judge sided with the government Thursday afternoon, saying Sanford is a danger to the community and democracy because of his alleged involvement in the violent breach of the Capitol’s perimeter.

The judge ordered Sanford to remain in federal custody as his case moves to Washington, D.C.


Sanford’s lawyer said he has been cooperative; he turned himself in, as arranged. The lawyer argued for his release, noting the retired Chester Fire Department firefighter and father of three has never in trouble before. And, his lawyer said, he did not go to Washington, D.C., with violent intent.

His lawyer also said Sanford is not a part of any extremist groups. But when prosecutors executed a search warrant at his Delaware County home, they say they found Proud Boys paraphernalia.

In response, Sanford shook his head vigorously and made a face of disbelief.


Federal officials released images of the person they believe threw the fire extinguisher, saying they got a tip from someone identifying him as Sanford. That person told officials that Sanford said he took a bus trip to Washington, D.C., to see President Donald Trump’s speech, then followed the president's instructions and went to the Capitol.

According to the tip, federal officials say, Sanford claimed he was in the area around the Capitol for about 10 minutes before leaving, but he did not mention throwing anything.

Robert Sanford Capitol investigation
A person, alleged to be Robert Sanford, is seen on video throwing a fire extinguisher into a group of police officers during the riots at the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. Photo credit U.S. Department of Justice

Robert Sanford Capitol investigation
DOJ investigators say Robert Sanford (above) matches the person seen throwing a fire extinguisher into a crowd of police officers during the riots at the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. Photo credit U.S. Department of Justice
"While Robert Sanford adorned a hat with a fire department logo, he is not a current employee of the city of Chester," the city's mayor, Thaddeus Kirkland, said in an official statement issued Thursday morning.

"If any person, be it current or former employee or resident, is confirmed to have participated in last week’s event at the Capitol, then we hope our legal system will work according to its purpose and bring them to justice."


He affirmed Sanford's First Amendment rights to freedom of speech and assembly, but said "the actions of the rioters in D.C. last week hinged on characteristics of domestic terrorism."

Officials say this is not connected to Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick, who, officials have said, died from injuries sustained when he was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher.

Kirkland said Sanford was in the Chester Fire Department from January 1994 to February 2020.
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funk51

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2021, 10:26:28 AM »
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funk51

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2021, 10:33:23 AM »
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funk51

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2021, 10:43:30 AM »
Grandson charged in death of Pine Grove woman
Kalvin Clark, 32, of Pine Grove, is currently charged with aggravated and simple assault.

Author: Elizabeth Worthington
Published: 3:24 PM EST January 25, 2021
Updated: 5:39 PM EST February 10, 2021
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PINE GROVE, Pa. — Assault charges have been filed in Schuylkill County against a man in connection with the death of his grandmother.

Police were called to a home along North Tulpehocken Street in Pine Grove around 3 p.m. Sunday.

Kalvin Clark, 32, of Pine Grove, told officers that he and the victim, Sharon Zimmerman, 73, got into an argument over the presidential election on Saturday.


RELATED: Arrest made in Schuylkill County death investigation

Clark told state police he was fighting with Zimmerman at their home in Pine Grove on Saturday night when he grabbed her mouth to keep the neighbors from hearing her yell. State police say that's when Zimmerman fell down the stairs, and her grandson left her lying on the ground overnight.

Clark tells troopers he took his grandmother's phone to keep her from calling the police.

By the time he tried to place her in the shower the next morning, he told police her body was cold to the touch.

When police arrived at the home on Sunday afternoon, Zimmerman was dead.

"At first, I thought maybe she had a little tumble because a little while back she broke her leg falling, so when I saw the ambulance, I was like, eh, then I saw the town police come, and I thought, 'Wait a minute.' And then I saw the coroner pull up, I'm like, 'Whoa,'" said Paula Conrad.

According to court papers, Zimmerman had bruises all over her body and a "substantial facial injury."

The next-door neighbor says unfortunately, he wasn't surprised.

"He's troubling the area. 4 o'clock in the morning, it's not uncommon for him to be out screaming and carrying on," Alfred Kohr said.

Neighbors say Zimmerman will be missed.

"Miss Sharon was in everybody's lives in the area here. She would tell you how to mow your grass and do your flower beds and if you weren't mowing it in the right direction," Kohr laughed. "But she would bring Christmas presents and birthday presents to my son."

"She was really nice. She'd do anything for anybody," Conrad added.

Clark was charged with aggravated and simple assault. State police would not say if any other charges are coming, just that the investigation is ongoing.

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evacnam

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2021, 10:47:24 AM »
Grandson charged in death of Pine Grove woman
Kalvin Clark, 32, of Pine Grove, is currently charged with aggravated and simple assault.

Author: Elizabeth Worthington
Published: 3:24 PM EST January 25, 2021
Updated: 5:39 PM EST February 10, 2021
Facebook Twitter
PINE GROVE, Pa. — Assault charges have been filed in Schuylkill County against a man in connection with the death of his grandmother.

Police were called to a home along North Tulpehocken Street in Pine Grove around 3 p.m. Sunday.

Kalvin Clark, 32, of Pine Grove, told officers that he and the victim, Sharon Zimmerman, 73, got into an argument over the presidential election on Saturday.


RELATED: Arrest made in Schuylkill County death investigation

Clark told state police he was fighting with Zimmerman at their home in Pine Grove on Saturday night when he grabbed her mouth to keep the neighbors from hearing her yell. State police say that's when Zimmerman fell down the stairs, and her grandson left her lying on the ground overnight.

Clark tells troopers he took his grandmother's phone to keep her from calling the police.

By the time he tried to place her in the shower the next morning, he told police her body was cold to the touch.

When police arrived at the home on Sunday afternoon, Zimmerman was dead.

"At first, I thought maybe she had a little tumble because a little while back she broke her leg falling, so when I saw the ambulance, I was like, eh, then I saw the town police come, and I thought, 'Wait a minute.' And then I saw the coroner pull up, I'm like, 'Whoa,'" said Paula Conrad.

According to court papers, Zimmerman had bruises all over her body and a "substantial facial injury."

The next-door neighbor says unfortunately, he wasn't surprised.

"He's troubling the area. 4 o'clock in the morning, it's not uncommon for him to be out screaming and carrying on," Alfred Kohr said.

Neighbors say Zimmerman will be missed.

"Miss Sharon was in everybody's lives in the area here. She would tell you how to mow your grass and do your flower beds and if you weren't mowing it in the right direction," Kohr laughed. "But she would bring Christmas presents and birthday presents to my son."

"She was really nice. She'd do anything for anybody," Conrad added.

Clark was charged with aggravated and simple assault. State police would not say if any other charges are coming, just that the investigation is ongoing.

thats got nothing to do with any political party
The man obviously has severe mental health issues as seen by screaming at nothing at 4 am, probably among many other issues

christ sakes you douchebags still arguing over and election that is long done

Humble Narcissist

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2021, 10:53:47 AM »
thats got nothing to do with any political party
The man obviously has severe mental health issues as seen by screaming at nothing at 4 am, probably among many other issues

christ sakes you douchebags still arguing over and election that is long done
TDS is not cured by an election.  These retards will spend the rest of their lives crying about Trump.  I'm sure Hollywood is making movies right now about "America's Hitler."

Sissysquats

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2021, 10:58:57 AM »
 It all still pales in comparison to a weekend on the S side of Chicago

funk51

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2021, 11:21:04 AM »
It all still pales in comparison to a weekend on the S side of Chicago
                     
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funk51

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2021, 11:47:25 AM »
thats got nothing to do with any political party
The man obviously has severe mental health issues as seen by screaming at nothing at 4 am, probably among many other issues

christ sakes you douchebags still arguing over and election that is long done
   at first glance,  I thought it was that Epric is back guy, but then I realized this guy had more hair.
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irishdave

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2021, 11:49:05 AM »
TDS is not cured by an election.  These retards will spend the rest of their lives crying about Trump.  I'm sure Hollywood is making movies right now about "America's Hitler."

Very sick people. Funk has minus Testosterone levels

funk51

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2021, 11:49:13 AM »
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evacnam

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2021, 11:50:45 AM »
   at first glance,  I thought it was that Epric is back guy, but then I realized this guy had more hair.

 :D :D :D

smaller ears too,......god damn epic could fly like a hang glider----sans kite

funk51

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2021, 11:51:35 AM »
Very sick people. Funk has minus Testosterone levels
   
             how are you doing ginger dave, hope you are doing well.
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Coach is Back!

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2021, 11:55:01 AM »
Sooooo, just to be clear. Day 3 and still zero evidence of “insurrection” 🤷‍♂️ #democratclownshow

evacnam

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2021, 01:12:38 PM »
I dont know much a bout politics but I will say this

I find it hard to believe that in that capitol raid that not a single solitary politician that the mob was supposedly after got tied up, hurt, killed or even got a booboo. All those "angry" pro Trump people and not one of them was able to do a thing to a politician that they supposedly despise and wanted to kill? Jeez even my fat ass could have booted one politician in the ass in that whole gong show.

And how handy dandy to have 40 cameras, not just phone cams but real cameras, in the siege.
If I cared at all about this I would venture a guess that a lot of that scenario was staged to work against Trump, I mean thats just a common sense thought. Lol at no politicians being killed or injured.

epic is back

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2021, 01:46:32 PM »
a whole thread of funk talking to himself

funny ass sheeeeiitt

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2021, 02:19:37 PM »
they got their wish he isn't president anymore, yet they can't stop talking about him

this is how you know a person you are now dating isn't that into you, all they talk about is their ex

none of them talk about biden positively, his only "positive" is he isn't trump yet we are supposed to believe a guy like that got the most votes in election history ::)








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harmankardon1

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2021, 02:19:59 PM »
Funk is a homo...

Henda

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2021, 02:54:49 PM »
One of the worst threads ever posted on getbig. Go back to posting photos of gold painted weigh in every room of your house

Hypertrophy

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2021, 03:20:40 PM »
Funk is a washed up nobody living in east bumfuck PA and looking like a shadow of himself. So he needs to create a bogeyman to make his pitiful existence meaningful. But it isnt lol. He is a turd.

ThisisOverload

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2021, 04:15:42 PM »
I dont know much a bout politics but I will say this

I find it hard to believe that in that capitol raid that not a single solitary politician that the mob was supposedly after got tied up, hurt, killed or even got a booboo. All those "angry" pro Trump people and not one of them was able to do a thing to a politician that they supposedly despise and wanted to kill? Jeez even my fat ass could have booted one politician in the ass in that whole gong show.

And how handy dandy to have 40 cameras, not just phone cams but real cameras, in the siege.
If I cared at all about this I would venture a guess that a lot of that scenario was staged to work against Trump, I mean thats just a common sense thought. Lol at no politicians being killed or injured.

Yeah when you look at from a neutral standpoint, the whole thing is silly.

They let these people in with plenty of cameras to capture the action.

Imagine if a large group of Arabs were knocking on the door?

It was a completely staged event, by both sides.

Now everyone is forgetting all the murders, riots and looting done in 2020, that cost dozens of lives and billions of dollars.

IroNat

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2021, 04:26:19 PM »
Police: Lancaster County attorney had guns, ammo, and was on his way to Washington D.C. to kill government officials when stopped in Shippensburg
Kenelm Shirk III allegedly threatened to kill his wife and told her he was going to kill government officials prior to his arrest on Jan. 21, police allege.

Author: Keith Schweigert (FOX43)
Published: 9:58 AM EST February 3, 2021
Updated: 5:22 PM EST February 3, 2021
Facebook Twitter
A 71-year-old Lebanon County man was carrying an AR-15 rifle, two handguns, rope, gloves, a large amount of ammunition, and $5,000 in cash and was allegedly on his way to Washington, D.C. to kill government officials when he was arrested in Shippensburg last month, according to charging documents filed by Pennsylvania State Police.


Kenelm L. Shirk III, of the 1000 block of Bell Tower Drive near Cornwall, was taken into custody on Jan. 21, according to the criminal complaint affidavit.

He was taken into custody at a Sheetz store near Shippensburg by troopers stationed along Interstate 81 South to detain him.

Police issued a bulletin for Shirk after his wife contacted authorities, seeking an involuntary detainment following an argument over the results of the 2020 presidential election, charging documents say.

Shirk allegedly threatened her life and told her he was planning to attack government officials in Washington, and claimed he would "suicide by cop" if met by police along the way, according to the complaint.

Shirk, who is a member of a law firm in Ephrata, Lancaster County, and is the longtime solicitor for Akron borough, left his Lebanon County home on Jan. 21, his spouse reported.

State Police pinged his cell phone to determine his location, and took him into custody at 8:25 p.m. that night. Police discovered the rifle, handguns and ammunition, which were clearly visible in his vehicle at the time of his arrest.

On Jan. 22, police say, a nurse at the Chambersburg Hospital Emergency Room who performed a mental evaluation on Shirk after his capture told police he sounded serious when he spoke of killing his wife and members of the government.

If Shirk had gone on to complete his plan, she told police, "she did not want to see it on the news and feel like she was responsible," according to the complaint.

Police took Shirk to the hospital for an evaluation related to the request from Shirk's wife that he be involuntarily committed, the complaint states.

During her evaluation, the nurse told police, Shirk allegedly said he would "kill his wife, but not today" in a monotone, deadpan voice.

He allegedly told the nurse he had planned to stop in Alexandria, Virginia to see his son and deliver a present for his granddaughter.

He also said he "had to get up early enough to beat traffic and make it to the government officials' houses before they left for work" in Washington, the complaint states.

Shirk allegedly said he was 71 years old and inferred that he was ready to die, the nurse told police.

A second ER nurse who spoke to police on the phone after Shirk's visit to the ER said that while looking through Shirk's possessions, she found a piece of paper with a to-do list on it. The list mentioned things like birthday gifts and other daily activities, the nurse reported. But on the other side of the page, there were things like "guns, ammo, rope, tools, meds, magazine" written down. The nurse said she took a picture of the list, which she provided to police, according to the complaint.

In a briefcase belonging to Shirk, one nurse found a bag of 50 quarter-sized plastic crosses.

"It was almost as if (Shirk) intended to leave them at the crime scene," the nurse told police, according to the complaint.

Both nurses reported they found Shirk to be intimidating and disconcerting.

One of the nurses, who said she had been in the medical field for 16 years, reported she found Shirk's behavior particularly disturbing, and did not want to go to work knowing a patient like him was at the hospital.

"She had a strong gut feeling and instinct that this was more than just a guy who was having a bad day and angry about the election," police said in the complaint.

Shirk is being held in Franklin County Prison without bail. He is charged with two counts of terroristic threats.

A preliminary hearing is scheduled for Feb. 8 before Chambersburg District Judge Glenn Manns.

 

A very good friend of mine lives in Shippensburg.

I visited him a couple times and got gas at that Sheetz station.

evacnam

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Re: more lives ruined by trumpism.
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2021, 04:27:03 PM »
Yeah when you look at from a neutral standpoint, the whole thing is silly.

They let these people in with plenty of cameras to capture the action.

Imagine if a large group of Arabs were knocking on the door?

It was a completely staged event, by both sides.

Now everyone is forgetting all the murders, riots and looting done in 2020, that cost dozens of lives and billions of dollars.


absolutely, I never even thought of that,......which proves your point of people forgetting about it all