Top 3 Getbiggers of All-Time! Who you got?

[honest]

If GH15 wasn't nasser he certainly subscribed to Nassers approach chemically to bodybuilding, the similarities in the original GH 15 character were very real, you could tell it changed and the person impersonating was trying to be similar to the original account holder, but the change was noticeable, Nasser was very active on the boards around that time, i still wouldn't discount it being him, especially his hate for Milos or Mishko, some of the stuff said back then wasn't that well known, whoever it was had certainly been in the southern California scene. The later version was just rubbish, any juice head on meth could have rambled that garbage.

[BB]

Weider was a practicing Jew?

Not sure if he was practicing, but Ben Weider and sons were and are. Joe quietly gave to Israeli causes like many Jewish businessmen -

"There is also a Joe Weider Foundation; Joe Weider is CEO and Eric Weider has been CFO and is currently President. This has given several large grants to a Los Angeles-based organization called American Friends Of Aish HaTorah. Aish HaTorah is an Israeli organization that opposes Jewish assimilation and promotes Israel in the United States."

( Taken from - https://www.counterpunch.org/2012/12/06/how-american-history-magazine-censored-palestine/ ).

Over 9 years (2000 -2009), the Joe Weider Foundation gave away $4.7 million, these were the recipients of $100,000 or more -

 Selecting only those charities that received, cumulatively, in excess of $100,000, here are the largest recipients of the Joe Weider Foundation over the 9 years ended November 30, 2009:

To Keep Him First, Mt Vernon, VA 100,000 (This is an American historical foundation)
International Napoleonic Society, Montreal 425,000 (One of Ben Weider's pet projects dealing with Nepoleonic history)
Ben Weider Educational Fund 440,000
University of Western Ontario 600,000
American Friends of Aish Hatorah, Los Angeles 750,000
University of Texas Foundation 1,265,000 (This was for the Joe Weider wing of the H J Stark Physical Culture and Sports Building)

Total for these 6 charities 3,548,000 out of a bit under $4.7 Million

*Poster's Note, I added the red explanations, breakdown taken from a series of posts here - https://www.ironmind-forum.com/forum/strength-medley/other-strength-topics/1128-the-joe-betty-weider-museum .

Ben and Joe had more contributions to various Jewish charities, but they were to more common things - community centers, synagogues, etc....


--------------------------------- 

Just as another aside, one of the bigger things that caused a rift between Bob Hoffman and Weider, besides business, was the writer / editor Harry Paschall that worked for York Barbell. Paschall did not like Weider, and honestly, probably didn't like Jews as a whole.

Paschall noticed Joe Weider's middle name was Edwin, so "JE Weider", "JEW", or Jew Weider became nasty slang for Joe as those two sides battled it out.

Some of Paschall's editorials on Joe's early trade in homosexual bodybuilding mags -

https://www.musclememory.com/articles/fairyTale.html .

From Tim Fogarty's site, you'll notice some of his commentary.

[Van_Bilderass]

Weider was a practicing Jew?

I have no idea, never had any interest in looking it up, but I'm sure all Arab bodybuilders would have been very aware of Joe being a Jew. And although I didn't know Nasser, what came through about him in the bb media was a guy who talked shit about most former friends, so how genuine Nasser's positive feelings about Joe were I can't say. He was a "trickster" character. Who knows how positive he was wrt gays also, would Nasser have been as positive when adressing a Muslim audience? Or did he just talk positively of them because gays run bodybuilding?

What BB posted was very interesting. This jumped out at me:

"There is also a Joe Weider Foundation; Joe Weider is CEO and Eric Weider has been CFO and is currently President. This has given several large grants to a Los Angeles-based organization called American Friends Of Aish HaTorah. Aish HaTorah is an Israeli organization that opposes Jewish assimilation and promotes Israel in the United States."

This is of course what anti-Semites say about Jews, but which is called an anti-Semitic canard, that Jews are a nation within a nation, against all sorts of nationalism except in Israel and within their own group so they are against assimilation. Subversives. Diversity for thee, not for me.

Joe also started his career as a gay pornographer, another anti-Semitic trope and canard, that Jews are behind socially destructive things such as pornography.

Some of Paschall's editorials on Joe's early trade in homosexual bodybuilding mags -

https://www.musclememory.com/articles/fairyTale.html .

Yeah Catholics fighting Jews on this issue. "Queer sheets" Lol.

[epic is back]

Scourge

Of the earth

[Humble Narcissist]

Jews rule porn as well as Hollywood, the music industry, banking industry, politics, media, religion (yes even large Christian churches), political organizations (feminism, NAACP, ACLU,etc), and on and on.

[Griffith]

If GH15 wasn't nasser he certainly subscribed to Nassers approach chemically to bodybuilding, the similarities in the original GH 15 character were very real, you could tell it changed and the person impersonating was trying to be similar to the original account holder, but the change was noticeable, Nasser was very active on the boards around that time, i still wouldn't discount it being him, especially his hate for Milos or Mishko, some of the stuff said back then wasn't that well known, whoever it was had certainly been in the southern California scene. The later version was just rubbish, any juice head on meth could have rambled that garbage.

From his older posts I got the impression GH15 had lived in Europe.

[GymnJuice]

Jews rule porn as well as Hollywood, the music industry, banking industry, politics, media, religion (yes even large Christian churches), political organizations (feminism, NAACP, ACLU,etc), and on and on.

Getbig.com much more important and you didn't even mention it.

[_bruce_]

I Squadfather
II Pluto
III Kiwiol

...greatest pos(t)ers ever.

[honest]

From his older posts I got the impression GH15 had lived in Europe.

I agree Nasser had prior. He had good knowledge and terminology of european pharmaceuticals

[Tbomzisback!]

I am honored that I got two of you to vote for me 😎😁

It has nothing to do with any specialized knowledge. Not for me. gh15 had a huge impact in these circles, everyone was reading his posts but most denied it. And the most interesting part was the humor, I was often laughing out loud even being by myself. So I'm just curious because it's mysterious 

The question to me was not whether gh15 knew enough to be a pro, the question was which pro could put things in such a humorous way. Only one with a twisted sense of humor like that was Nasser which is why I thought he's the only one who could have some connection to the account.

There are a lot of pros who know jack shit about drugs etc. I would never go to a pro to "learn." Some personal anecdotes can be interesting to hear, stories about their travels in the world of hormones. Pros are just "guys." Guys with genes with a high tolerance for a boring, tedious, monotonous lifestyle.

I know about all the different drug forums since the inception of the internet. I know what was in there but gh15 brought something else. The forum guys are several years ahead of whatever pros are doing currently actually. Nerds are experimenting with things most pros know nothing about.

I think the "new knowledge" aspect was big. Whenever I talk to younger guys in the gym who are super into bodybuilding and want to talk about the Olympia etc, eventually the convo will go to gear, and I end up talking about how before social media everything was on the forums, and nobody used to know that all the pros were juicing until a guy named GH15 started posting, etc. And I think it's true that GH15 really did make public knowledge what most people outside the upper echelons of competitive bodybuilding didn't know, that those bodies are unattainable apart from drug abuse etc.

[Van_Bilderass]

I am honored that I got two of you to vote for me 😎😁

I think the "new knowledge" aspect was big.

But we knew the deal long before. And we were young guys then I was like 9 years when I started reading bodybuilding mags back in '87 and immediately picked up the drug aspect then and I'm not a genius 

And we have oldtimers here on getbig who think there aren't even any "real" drugs available today, just some watered down test at best.

[Humble Narcissist]

Getbig.com much more important and you didn't even mention it.

It goes without saying.

[BossBoss]

Maybe it wasn't new to you. Not everybody is an expert and as involved as you apparently are now let alone frequent a German board. Nobody talked openly about drugs and the amounts used like gh15 did. I never read about the amount of HGH used and that by the time you are a pro you are at 15 ius/day, hence gh15.

He was wildly popular not just on this board but was talked and referred to by other boards around the world. He had a huge impact on bbing that even pros would talk and make reference to him. Some simply resented his popularity and influence. This is not a surprise.

20 years ago the advice in German Forums was like this:

250 mg Test after a few years of training
500 mg Test if you are advanced. (7 Years)
750 mg Test + orals if you are a bodybuilding pro
1g Test and more: absolute crazy unsafe dosage.

GH15 was a guru and would show these crazy cycles, just like Milos Sarcev's advise today.
But by comparing the before\after pictures from Milos site, you notice that they look only slightly better,
like 5% better, and that is after a unhealthy, massive and long cycle..

It has diminishing effects..
GH15 was nothing new besides: "HAHA they take much more then you think.." mixed with broscience and personal anecdotes.

+He was never gone, he still writes in the gh15 forum today under the same account. (writing style is the same). Ok, some say it is not the same person, but that would be easy to proof, as he writes alot.

[BossBoss]

I am honored that I got two of you to vote for me 😎😁

I think the "new knowledge" aspect was big. Whenever I talk to younger guys in the gym who are super into bodybuilding and want to talk about the Olympia etc, eventually the convo will go to gear, and I end up talking about how before social media everything was on the forums, and nobody used to know that all the pros were juicing until a guy named GH15 started posting, etc. And I think it's true that GH15 really did make public knowledge what most people outside the upper echelons of competitive bodybuilding didn't know, that those bodies are unattainable apart from drug abuse etc.

Is it not a bit inappropriate to sell a used Penis-Pump, if you are not completely healthy?

[BB]

Is it not a bit inappropriate to sell a used Penis-Pump, if you are not completely healthy?

Call me old fashioned, but it's always inappropriate to sell a used penis pump .

[Van_Bilderass]

20 years ago the advice in German Forums was like this:

250 mg Test after a few years of training
500 mg Test if you are advanced. (7 Years)
750 mg Test + orals if you are a bodybuilding pro
1g Test and more: absolute crazy unsafe dosage.

GH15 was a guru and would show these crazy cycles, just like Milos Sarcev's advise today.
But by comparing the before\after pictures from Milos site, you notice that they look only slightly better,
like 5% better, and that is after a unhealthy, massive and long cycle..

It has diminishing effects..
GH15 was nothing new besides: "HAHA they take much more then you think.." mixed with broscience and personal anecdotes.

+He was never gone, he still writes in the gh15 forum today under the same account. (writing style is the same). Ok, some say it is not the same person, but that would be easy to proof, as he writes alot.

Milos does not advocate very heavy stacks. Please show a very steroid heavy stack that Milos wrote out. Milos actually wrote out his ideal Mr O stack here on getbig and from memory it wasn't crazy. Perhaps someone can dig it up.

There are certain averages with dosages used in bodybuilding today. For example testosterone among heavyweight pros and top amateur tends to be at 1.5-2.5 grams. Some really trying to push it do more. To this you commonly add a nandrolone and tren. Then orals, often 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off. It is interesting and useful to know averages because bodybuilders usually arrive at most effective ranges after much experimentation, just like with average protein intake. The testosterone average is interesting because these high test dosages became popular in the 90s, especially after Munzer's death stack, which had 500mg of test a day, very uncommon up to that point. Now it's standars and many feel there's no way around highish test dosages for a base, other drugs can't quite make up for it. This is what gh15 said, pros work up to a high test dosage, then add nandrolone and work it up high. Then add EQ. Tren is often in there, dosages vary according to season and preference. This is exactly what is done in the pros.

The gh is often at 8iu but often more if can be afforded. Insulin varies, Milos' camp uses like 40iu per workout, twice daily. Many use a bit less but most have done these higher dosages at some point. Lantus has become very popular in some camps, 100iu or more in the morning with fast acting on top is common.

You are absolutely right, many don't benefit much from increasing dosages, and I'm among them, there is only a few percentage points increase in mass by doubling or tripling your dosages, but it's interesting that among very advanced bodybuilders there's a common range and it's high.

There were a few followers of gh15 who did the crazy 300mg/day of tren, which I can't actually remember gh15 recommending. Everyone doing it said the changes were daily and dramatic.

Response is key. You can see how the best respond by certain signs. For example Michal Kriso's hand. He does not train that hand muscle but it responds like crazy. All the best bodybuilders have these huge bear hands and often double chins and the mushroom head. Click to enlarge and take it in properly 

[Van_Bilderass]

Milos does not advocate very heavy stacks. Please show a very steroid heavy stack that Milos wrote out. Milos actually wrote out his ideal Mr O stack here on getbig and from memory it wasn't crazy. Perhaps someone can dig it up.

Here:

I mentioned somewhere here on getbig what the true IFBB Olympia competitor cycle looks like - and most of the people attacked not just me, my parents, grandparents...and my ancestors but my whole Religion, Nationality...and...OK.. .I am running out of ideas...

Anyway, what I said than (hopefully someone could find it?) and I will say now:

Smart pros use dramatically LESS than what most of the people believe...
Some of the guys I prepare actually complained on amounts I have given here on board - as WAY TOO MUCH...and I do know few guys who hardly touch those amounts...

But, if you want to accomplish THE BEST EFFECT: Highest anabolism, lowest catabolism, appropriate androgenic activity and possible fat loss while trying to maintain (or gain?) muscle size and considering correct usage and certainly NOT abusing any drugs...keeping eye on possible side effects vs benefits...than my 12 week Olympia cycle would be:

4 weeks:
Sustanon 250 - (500-750 mg/week)
Deca (500 mg/week)
Dboll (3X20mg/day)
Trenbolon (200 mg/week)
Arimidex - 1mg /day

5-8 week:
Test Prop 50-100 mg/day alternate with Test Heptylate 50-100 mg day (500-700 mg/week)
Trenbolon Acetate (200 mg/week)
Primobolan (500 mg/week)
Anadrol (3 x 25 mg/day)
Winstrol tabs (3 x 15 mg/day)
Arimidex - 1 mg /day alternate with 2.5 mg Femara every other day

9-12 week:

Test prop 100 mg/day alternate with 50-100 mg Test Suspension /day - every other day (500-700 mg /week)
Masterone 100 mg every other day - stop 10 days out
Winstrol injectable 50 mg /day (week 9) 100 mg/day (week 10) and 150 mg/day (week 11) - stop 5 days out
Oxandrolone (3 x 10-20 mg/day)
Halotestin (3 x 10 mg/day) / Or Andriol (40 mg Test Undecanoate x 3 /day) - either or?
Arimidex 2 mg (possible 3?) /day

With this cycle possible additions:

Clenbuterol, T3 (cytomel) T4 (Synthroid) GH, insulin, Cytadren....IF needed or available...but you asked for steroids - anyway...

OK?

Got to go now...

It is nothing crazy at all. BUT he believes in the insulin which he prefers to do a lot of the work.

The only thing that is very high is the Winstrol in week 11 (and you have the other orals on top). But it's only for a very short period.

[BossBoss]

It is nothing crazy at all. BUT he believes in the insulin which he prefers to do a lot of the work.

That is an old one,(Or his special Forum-Edition) I've seen a newer one with much higher doses. (everything else is the same).

My guess is the dosage vary, but no, this is not what he advises them to take.
(I have to look it up, but i will post it here if i find it.)

[ThisisOverload]

That is an old one,(Or his special Forum-Edition) I've seen a newer one with much higher doses. (everything else is the same).

My guess is the dosage vary, but no, this is not what he advises them to take.
(I have to look it up, but i will post it here if i find it.)

Milos had a more detailed program on his old gym forum.

Not sure where it was but i saw it on there many years ago. It was on some random competitors update thread.

The doses Van mentioned are similar, but about half of what i remember seeing.

[BossBoss]

The doses Van mentioned are similar, but about half of what i remember seeing.

Yeah, exactly this is not a 12 week Olympia cycle.
It was much more. Almost everything x 6 or something like that..

[Van_Bilderass]

Yeah, exactly this is not a 12 week Olympia cycle.
It was much more. Almost everything x 6 or something like that..

Was it something Milos had written up for some athlete? Or an example of what some athlete was doing? Milos has talked about athletes doing 100cc's a week but he always says it's too much. I have a hard time believing Milos publicly said he recommended 6x times those dosages. I've followed everything and don't remember anything like that. For example, are you saying Milos recommended 4.5 grams of test, 3 grams of Deca, 1.2 grams of Tren and 360mg of Dbol a day? Or almost a gram of Winstrol a day?

[BossBoss]

Was it something Milos had written up for some athlete?

Yes it was a german pro.

For example, are you saying Milos recommended 4.5 grams of test, 3 grams of Deca, 1.2 grams of Tren and 360mg of Dbol a day? Or almost a gram of Winstrol a day?

No, Tren and Dbol was lower of course, Winstrol no idea..
Everything else was crazy high.

But, yeah i will look it up and i will find it, and i post it here
(maybe i remember it not right, but i don't think so..)

"4.5 grams of test" something like that it was

[Van_Bilderass]

Yes it was a german pro.

Okay. What sometimes happens is that a bb who has been running say 7 grams comes to Milos or whatever guru. He will not exactly go for 900mg or whatever. So they come to a mutual agreement somewhere in the middle that the pro can accept. Sometimes they do even more behind the guru's back. For example, Chad Nicholls suspected Dallas McCarver was doing EPO though he adviced against it.

Milos was blamed by that Mike Wheels guy for his heart problems. But Milos had told him to cut way back on the gear but increase the insulin a little bit. But Wheels felt it was the 30-50iu insulin that did it, not the multigrams he had been doing for years. Milos told him to do like a cc of test and EQ every 3 days or whatever. That's nothing if you have been doing 12cc of test a week as base with a dozen other compounds on top.

[BossBoss]

Okay. What sometimes happens is that a bb who has been running say 7 grams comes to Milos or whatever guru. He will not exactly go for 900mg or whatever. So they come to a mutual agreement somewhere in the middle that the pro can accept. Sometimes they do even more behind the guru's back. For example, Chad Nicholls suspected Dallas McCarver was doing EPO though he adviced against it.

That is what they say..that is what Milos tells the people, but that is only 50% of the story and maybe not 100% accurate. It is more the other way around.. pros with relativ low cycles come to milos and they get these massive plans..(like 3 times from what there where actually doing before)

[pellius]

20 years ago the advice in German Forums was like this:

250 mg Test after a few years of training
500 mg Test if you are advanced. (7 Years)
750 mg Test + orals if you are a bodybuilding pro
1g Test and more: absolute crazy unsafe dosage.

GH15 was a guru and would show these crazy cycles, just like Milos Sarcev's advise today.
But by comparing the before\after pictures from Milos site, you notice that they look only slightly better,
like 5% better, and that is after a unhealthy, massive and long cycle..

It has diminishing effects..
GH15 was nothing new besides: "HAHA they take much more then you think.." mixed with broscience and personal anecdotes.

+He was never gone, he still writes in the gh15 forum today under the same account. (writing style is the same). Ok, some say it is not the same person, but that would be easy to proof, as he writes alot.

One thing gh15 brought to the front was just how much bbers lie. 750 Test plus orals. Gym rats today routinely are at a gram of Test, 600-1000mg /wk of Deca or EQ, and 50 -100 mg/day of dbol or drol.