Author Topic: CPI @ 7.5%  (Read 1882 times)

Mayday

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CPI @ 7.5%
« on: February 10, 2022, 11:58:23 PM »
Fed says they will target 1% increase by July.

People on social media are rejoicing saying how bullish this is. Even talking media heads saying markets will rocket.

Someone please explain to me why this is bullish?


Theoak*

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2022, 01:54:03 AM »
The out-of-control inflation suddenly showing up the global debt pyramid has to come into serious question ... like really serious

If bonds become a risk-on trade and BTC becomes the risk-off trade we have a genuine flippening for the ages (bullish).

The crashing bond market might not be the big one but it will be a huge big one, likely systemic threat with the sheer size of the bond trade and derivatives pyramid that is stacked on top of that ... not to mention the solvency of the global banking pyramid being founded on "tier one capital", aka bonds.


Rising inflation and interest rates is likely the end game for the fiat pyramid debt scheme and they will just pull the plug, financial collapse, closures, account freezes, deposit consfiscation, bail-ins, reset, war, etc, etc.

Time frame....I couldn't tell you. Can't stop the QE now, this whole interest rate rise is a dog and pony show, especially given mid-terms are coming up.

Get into hard assets, my preference BTC - insurance against a failing system.

IroNat

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2022, 04:51:14 AM »
Fed says they will target 1% increase by July.

People on social media are rejoicing saying how bullish this is. Even talking media heads saying markets will rocket.

Someone please explain to me why this is bullish?



You're right.  Makes no sense.  The markets will tank.

bhank

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2022, 05:13:19 AM »
Fed says they will target 1% increase by July.

People on social media are rejoicing saying how bullish this is. Even talking media heads saying markets will rocket.

Someone please explain to me why this is bullish?

Well theoretically your income goes up while your mortgage and car payments stay the same. It is also a bullish sign as it means more people are buying stuff prices are usually higher because demand is higher possibly due to wage increases. But it could also be partially due to supply chain issues same demand less supply would also cause price increases which is not a bullish sign. But given the high ADP monthly new hire jobs numbers and last quarterly GDP growth numbers are also way over expectations I would say the economy is definitely heating up.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/10/economy/inflation-good-bad-winners-losers-fixed-rate-debt/index.html

OneMoreRep

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2022, 07:18:41 AM »
Fed says they will target 1% increase by July.

People on social media are rejoicing saying how bullish this is. Even talking media heads saying markets will rocket.

Someone please explain to me why this is bullish?

It's not bullish, it's completely bearish.

If the Fed is saying they will raise interest rates by 100 basis points, or the equivalent 1% interest rate hike, it will make borrowing money more costly. Granted, I think that 1% is way too low of a percentage to raise interest rates by. It's as if they are trying to place a Band-Aid on an arterial hemorrhage. It just won't cut it. Frankly, no matter how high they raise interest rates, the inflation rate will get nowhere near the 2% it once was. We're at 7.5% and that inflation train has already left the station. It's as if the FED and the US gov't have dug a massive hole and thrown Americans into it and are now say they will extend a rope woven from cotton candy for us to climb out of that ditch.

For those wondering how a rise in interest rates negatively affects the stock market, let me explain. When the Fed increases interest rates, it increases borrowing costs for everyone but especially for the big financial institutions. This then also effects consumers on main street, because their own borrowing costs go up (private loans, mortgages, credit card rates etc.). Realize that if these big financial institutions have to pay more money to borrow cash, they will pass on the cost of doing this to its customers (so the people on the ground level get fucked). If consumers then have to pay higher rates for their overhead home bills, they will then be left with less disposable income, which in turn means they won't have the extra few hundred dollars to throw at the stock market, which also means these same consumers will have less money to throw at your local franchise and mom-and-pop stores, which results in local business taking a financial hit. Again, this is the cascading effect below

(Raise rates) --> Financial firms have to pay more to borrow cash --> Firms pass the bill to its customers, they get fucked --> rise in rates also makes consumers pay higher mortgage, credit card and private loan rates, they get fucked again --> The consumer getting fucked both ways means they have less disposable cash to invest in the stock market and even into their local businesses --> The local businesses then start to suffer as well, many of which are listed on the stock market (Apple, Microsoft, McDonalds, Target etc), which further brings the market down.

Again, the major tools the fed has in attempting to lower (CPI) inflation are:

  • Rate hikes in March (barrier to "free" money as loans will no longer be dirt cheap to borrow)
  • Continued tapering of bond purchasing (less money creation as the Fed will buy less of the US government debt -US treasury bonds-, which means that the US govt won't have new Fed cash to infuse into circulation)
  • Steep reduction to Fed balance sheet (The Fed will sell the treasury bonds they hold via reverse repo agreements, which will in turn get more money off circulation and back into Fed)

The bigger problem is that the US government can't afford to pay higher interest rates, so they are caught in between a hard place and a rock. The US national debt is at $30 Trillion dollars, highest in US history. If you increase interest rates, the way needed to properly fight inflation, you risk the US falling into a national debt crisis. Some economists believe that once the spiral produced by a debt-and-interest-rate tug of war begins, it's almost impossible to escape without drastic inflation or fiscal consolidation.

In other words, we are fucked and the blueprint for this ass fucking was set into motion way back when during the 2008 era and then given an exponential push during the beginning of COVID and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

"1"

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2022, 07:32:26 AM »
Expected this to be about the body fat of a bodybuilder with initials CPI.

OneMoreRep

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2022, 07:38:17 AM »
Expected this to be about the body fat of a bodybuilder with initials CPI.

Boom!

"1"

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2022, 07:43:54 AM »
How to stay ahead of inflation.


bhank

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2022, 07:47:19 AM »
It's not bullish, it's completely bearish.

If the Fed is saying they will raise interest rates by 100 basis points, or the equivalent 1% interest rate hike, it will make borrowing money more costly. Granted, I think that 1% is way too low of a percentage to raise interest rates by. It's as if they are trying to place a Band-Aid on an arterial hemorrhage. It just won't cut it. Frankly, no matter how high they raise interest rates, the inflation rate will get nowhere near the 2% it once was. We're at 7.5% and that inflation train has already left the station. It's as if the FED and the US gov't have dug a massive hole and thrown Americans into it and are now say they will extend a rope woven from cotton candy for us to climb out of that ditch.

For those wondering how a rise in interest rates negatively affects the stock market, let me explain. When the Fed increases interest rates, it increases borrowing costs for everyone but especially for the big financial institutions. This then also effects consumers on main street, because their own borrowing costs go up (private loans, mortgages, credit card rates etc.). Realize that if these big financial institutions have to pay more money to borrow cash, they will pass on the cost of doing this to its customers (so the people on the ground level get fucked). If consumers then have to pay higher rates for their overhead home bills, they will then be left with less disposable income, which in turn means they won't have the extra few hundred dollars to throw at the stock market, which also means these same consumers will have less money to throw at your local franchise and mom-and-pop stores, which results in local business taking a financial hit. Again, this is the cascading effect below

(Raise rates) --> Financial firms have to pay more to borrow cash --> Firms pass the bill to its customers, they get fucked --> rise in rates also makes consumers pay higher mortgage, credit card and private loan rates, they get fucked again --> The consumer getting fucked both ways means they have less disposable cash to invest in the stock market and even into their local businesses --> The local businesses then start to suffer as well, many of which are listed on the stock market (Apple, Microsoft, McDonalds, Target etc), which further brings the market down.

Again, the major tools the fed has in attempting to lower (CPI) inflation are:

  • Rate hikes in March (barrier to "free" money as loans will no longer be dirt cheap to borrow)
  • Continued tapering of bond purchasing (less money creation as the Fed will buy less of the US government debt -US treasury bonds-, which means that the US govt won't have new Fed cash to infuse into circulation)
  • Steep reduction to Fed balance sheet (The Fed will sell the treasury bonds they hold via reverse repo agreements, which will in turn get more money off circulation and back into Fed)

The bigger problem is that the US government can't afford to pay higher interest rates, so they are caught in between a hard place and a rock. The US national debt is at $30 Trillion dollars, highest in US history. If you increase interest rates, the way needed to properly fight inflation, you risk the US falling into a national debt crisis. Some economists believe that once the spiral produced by a debt-and-interest-rate tug of war begins, it's almost impossible to escape without drastic inflation or fiscal consolidation.

In other words, we are fucked and the blueprint for this ass fucking was set into motion way back when during the 2008 era and then given an exponential push during the beginning of COVID and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

"1"

I used to work in FX your inflation analysis aside most countries have to pay principal and or interest on their government debt in foreign currency. We pay in dollars a fiat currency we print backed by faith in the government willingness to print more money and pay. Inflation actually makes our debt obligations cheaper as the 20 trillion we currently owe is at a lower interest rate and in pre inflation dollars. We can literally inflate our way out of debt through printing. Considering the world is rushing to devalue their currencies to increase foreign trade demand and domestic jobs and production this isn't a bad thing. New mortgages will be have interest rates but home values will also reflect that and for the millions of Americans already with mortgages inflation makes their debt payments relatively cheaper as incomes go up with inflation. Inflation is great for current borrowers and debters ie everyone who isn't rich as their debt servicing as a percentage of their income goes down. Also yes job are up gdp growth is up the economy is heating up despite covid lockdowns demand is up wages are up retail investors always get this wrong we are going into a boom not a recession. That is why the fed can afford to raise interest rates now.

Flexacon

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2022, 08:21:20 AM »
I used to work in FX your inflation analysis aside most countries have to pay principal and or interest on their government debt in foreign currency. We pay in dollars a fiat currency we print backed by faith in the government willingness to print more money and pay. Inflation actually makes our debt obligations cheaper as the 20 trillion we currently owe is at a lower interest rate and in pre inflation dollars. We can literally inflate our way out of debt through printing. Considering the world is rushing to devalue their currencies to increase foreign trade demand and domestic jobs and production this isn't a bad thing. New mortgages will be have interest rates but home values will also reflect that and for the millions of Americans already with mortgages inflation makes their debt payments relatively cheaper as incomes go up with inflation. Inflation is great for current borrowers and debters ie everyone who isn't rich as their debt servicing as a percentage of their income goes down. Also yes job are up gdp growth is up the economy is heating up despite covid lockdowns demand is up wages are up retail investors always get this wrong we are going into a boom not a recession. That is why the fed can afford to raise interest rates now.

5 billion in deep ITM calls come in on SPX yesterday at market close, so someone agrees with you

tommywishbone

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2022, 08:24:01 AM »
Expected this to be about the body fat of a bodybuilder with initials CPI.

Flex Wheeler
Billy Smith
Jim Quinn
0.0 percent

This conversation is now over.
a

Thin Lizzy

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2022, 09:02:11 AM »
5 billion in deep ITM calls come in on SPX yesterday at market close, so someone agrees with you

Google had a nice earnings bump and has quietly given it all back. I’m sure you’ve seen FB. Seems like a market on shaky ground. 5 billion seems like a lot until you consider SPY trades ~80~100 million shares a days and is trading at ~450.


pamith

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2022, 09:13:21 AM »
Lou Ferrigno had like 1% body fat, no?

OneMoreRep

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2022, 09:53:57 AM »
Hey bhank, thanks for the reply. Let me break this up into parts to show where I agree/disagree.

I used to work in FX, your inflation analysis aside, most countries have to pay principal and or interest on their government debt in foreign currency. We pay in dollars a fiat currency we print backed by faith in the government willingness to print more money and pay. Inflation actually makes our debt obligations cheaper as the 20 trillion we currently owe is at a lower interest rate and in pre inflation dollars.

This statement I agree with. For contractual debt with fixed, low interest rates, high and even hyper inflation is great. A great example is someone with a 30-year mortgage that has a fixed rate at 2.5%. Let's say this person owes $200K principal, they likely pay a set $1,000-$1,200/month. Hyper-inflation hits and they will likely get a substantial pay rate increase at work (assuming their company doesn't go out of business) and as a result they now have a lot more cash on hand to spend accordingly. Given that the $1,200/month won't change as it's in a set contract, their extra monthly earnings will then allow them to pay their mortgage in half the time. In this sense, high and hyper inflation can be convenient to consumers with contractual debt (not adjustable rate mortgages, those get fucked).

We can literally inflate our way out of debt through printing. Considering the world is rushing to devalue their currencies to increase foreign trade demand and domestic jobs and production this isn't a bad thing. New mortgages will be have interest rates but home values will also reflect that and for the millions of Americans already with mortgages inflation makes their debt payments relatively cheaper as incomes go up with inflation. Inflation is great for current borrowers and debters ie everyone who isn't rich as their debt servicing as a percentage of their income goes down. Also yes job are up gdp growth is up the economy is heating up despite covid lockdowns demand is up wages are up retail investors always get this wrong we are going into a boom not a recession. That is why the fed can afford to raise interest rates now.

I think the idea of literally printing our way out of debt is becoming less probable. The world is changing. Other nations (namely China and Russia) are tired of the USA's bullshit tactics and certain geopolitical sidings (see recent NATO and Ukraine). More and more nations are starting to realize that the US house of cards is starting to crumble. We are starting to show true signs of a deleveraging that could result in massive stagflation and recession. Not to mention, that I also believe we are soon going to be approaching a new financial system that will include Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs) and the mainstream use/acceptance of cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology (Read the most recent reports about the Hamilton Project involving the Federal Reserve and MIT).

Here's to hoping we see the light at the end of the tunnel, but all signs are pointing towards worsening inflation in a way that will directly hurt consumers. Prices on main street are rising quickly (just check out your local gas station prices), not to mention that many employers are being greedy and not giving pay raises that are commensurate to inflationary cost of living. I think the true colors of our cut-throat capitalistic society are shining through and the first thing we're seeing are the white from the sharp fangs piercing through our wallets.

"1"

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2022, 10:24:30 AM »
Make a Democrat president and you get this every time. Jimmy Carter era mortgage rates of 21% come to mind.  You can't print your way out of debt since the global monetary exchange rate changes in response. These fucking liberals are clueless.

Flexacon

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2022, 11:02:36 AM »
Putin might have just black swanned us. Possible Ukraine invasion next week..

OneMoreRep

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2022, 12:14:21 PM »
Putin might have just black swanned us. Possible Ukraine invasion next week..

This is part of what I am getting at when I say that Russia is playing chess and Biden is playing checkers at the senior citizen center. We lack proper leadership, both from Biden and Congress and we're allowing the Federal Reserve to dictate economic policy. How far have we fallen from the America of old.

"1"

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2022, 01:34:23 PM »
The USA is not entering a boom

Mayday

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2022, 04:02:23 PM »
Really appreciate the responses. I’m not a stocks person so I’m a noob with what I’m hearing.

Bhank cheers for your view. I get the same end game as you which is debasement of currency —> inflationary rise on commodities—> wage inflation —> devaluation of personal debt = bailout.

Onerep paid it out nicely for consumer impact.

I have pondered the likely scenario of the Fed not being able to control inflation partly due to cost base increases on primary producers but also volume drops on consumer leading to a margin squeeze and price hikes all of which put upward pressure on CPI despite lowering productivity.

I think that’s where my thoughts fits in with Bhank where there is just so much inflationary pressure that it will be attempted to tighten but when something breaks somewhere —> let’s say the bond market —> the QE will be turned back on to provide liquidity and the inflationary meltup just keeps going.

I need to look at the credit market and see how it reacts to these rate rises as that will be telling for real world risk. Corporate bonds are tied sickeningly close to consumer sentiment and what onerep posted is A storm brewing for corporate bonds let alone mortgages.

obsidian

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2022, 06:42:47 PM »
Flex Wheeler
Billy Smith
Jim Quinn
0.0 percent

This conversation is now over.
Jim Quinn said on the ESPN coverage that they did a skin fold measurement which showed 0.0% body fat on Flex Wheeler at the Gold's in Venice one week before the 93 Mr. Olympia. He also said Flex was the only bodybuilder to ever do that.

Mayday

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2022, 09:12:06 PM »
Emergency Fed meeting 11:30am Monday 14th Feb. they’re not messing about anymore it seems.

Best case they are meeting to discuss this year’s Christmas party.

Thin Lizzy

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2022, 10:09:36 AM »
Hey bhank, thanks for the reply. Let me break this up into parts to show where I agree/disagree.

This statement I agree with. For contractual debt with fixed, low interest rates, high and even hyper inflation is great. A great example is someone with a 30-year mortgage that has a fixed rate at 2.5%. Let's say this person owes $200K principal, they likely pay a set $1,000-$1,200/month. Hyper-inflation hits and they will likely get a substantial pay rate increase at work (assuming their company doesn't go out of business) and as a result they now have a lot more cash on hand to spend accordingly. Given that the $1,200/month won't change as it's in a set contract, their extra monthly earnings will then allow them to pay their mortgage in half the time. In this sense, high and hyper inflation can be convenient to consumers with contractual debt (not adjustable rate mortgages, those get fucked).

I think the idea of literally printing our way out of debt is becoming less probable. The world is changing. Other nations (namely China and Russia) are tired of the USA's bullshit tactics and certain geopolitical sidings (see recent NATO and Ukraine). More and more nations are starting to realize that the US house of cards is starting to crumble. We are starting to show true signs of a deleveraging that could result in massive stagflation and recession. Not to mention, that I also believe we are soon going to be approaching a new financial system that will include Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs) and the mainstream use/acceptance of cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology (Read the most recent reports about the Hamilton Project involving the Federal Reserve and MIT).

Here's to hoping we see the light at the end of the tunnel, but all signs are pointing towards worsening inflation in a way that will directly hurt consumers. Prices on main street are rising quickly (just check out your local gas station prices), not to mention that many employers are being greedy and not giving pay raises that are commensurate to inflationary cost of living. I think the true colors of our cut-throat capitalistic society are shining through and the first thing we're seeing are the white from the sharp fangs piercing through our wallets.

"1"

I have to admit on I’m on the fence. Historically speaking BHank is right. The years following a crisis are usually boom times, but the logical part of me sees Central Banks in a box with hyperinflation on one side and crashing the economy on the other. My guess is that they go with latter as a market crash is preferable to a worldwide Hyperinflation.

OneMoreRep

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2022, 10:19:13 AM »
My guess is that they go with latter as a market crash is preferable to a worldwide Hyperinflation.

Hyperinflation started by the USA would essentially mark the end of the US as the most powerful world empire. A market crash would certainly be the ideal outcome given the circumstances and would allow for the US to blame these difficult times on factors inherent to the market versus their direct wrongdoing.

By the way, for any forum members that would like to dive more into macro-economics and the various reasons for the rise and fall of world empires dating back over centuries, should really consider reading Ray Dalio's "Principles for Dealing with the Changing World Order: Why Nations Succeed and Fail".

This is a masterful read that truly showcases how the great empires of the past rose to great economic prosperity and world dominance and how those same empires crumbled. He also highlights how the US rose to dominance as the leading world empire around the time of the second world war (1945) and how it has already reached its zenith and is showing signs of rapid decline.

Worth checking out if any of you are interested in learning more about economics and what's happening during the present and what will likely result in the near future.



"1"

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2022, 10:46:08 AM »
I have to admit on I’m on the fence. Historically speaking BHank is right. The years following a crisis are usually boom times, but the logical part of me sees Central Banks in a box with hyperinflation on one side and crashing the economy on the other. My guess is that they go with latter as a market crash is preferable to a worldwide Hyperinflation.

Booms do follow busts....

In a normal business cycle

The FED has seen to the end of such a thing

A two year largely manufactured crisis doesn't qualify as a bust either

Thin Lizzy

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Re: CPI @ 7.5%
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2022, 11:38:08 AM »
Booms do follow busts....

In a normal business cycle

The FED has seen to the end of such a thing

A two year largely manufactured crisis doesn't qualify as a bust either

Market price action has me leaning towards this argument. The Covid drop could’ve just been a shakeout and the real crash is yet to come. I look at a company like PayPal which has real earnings yet has seen its market cap decreased by 2/3. That’s no correction. It’s a crash