New Controversial Metformin Study And Diabetes [More Plates More Dates ®]

[Matt]

Paul Saladino On The New Controversial Metformin Study And Diabetes:

^ Is the general consensus that Type II diabetes is curable?

It's amazing to me what our bodies can do on their own.

I do think there is a time and a place for pharmaceuticals...it's just that they are way overused.

Mel Gibson was on Joe Rogan [Mel was looking pretty large on that episode], and he said his dad had never gone to the hospital for years [more or less]. I think he attributed his good health to NOT going to the hospital. He had a few things wrong with him when he went [around age 92-93], and thanks to stem cell treatments and some other treatments, he ultimately lived to age 101. Almost 102:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutton_Gibson

[joswift]

Berberine
same as metaformin without the sides
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/berberine-powerful-supplement#TOC_TITLE_HDR_3

[Matt]

Berberine
same as metaformin without the sides
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/berberine-powerful-supplement#TOC_TITLE_HDR_3

Really?

Is that a consensus or emerging consensus?

I by no means trust Big Pharma, and in fact my trust in Big Pharma is so low, that I never want to set foot in a hospital ever again.

I've also heard Metformin is carcinogenic.

But the rational side of me has to stop to remind me: Big Pharma does have a time and a place.

joswift, the reason why I'm asking is because a family member is a Type II diabetic due to poor diet. I would prefer he just clean up his diet, but he was not once time to do that by his doctor.

I'd prefer if he get off Metformin though.

Do you mean to say he can just switch to Berberine?

Or does that depend on the individual?

[joswift]

If people get sides from Metaformin they get prescribed Berberine

Compared with metformin, berberine exhibited an identical effect in the regulation of glucose metabolism, such as HbA1c, FBG, PBG, fasting insulin and postprandial insulin. In the regulation of lipid metabolism, berberine activity is better than metformin.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2410097/

[Rambone]

According to Stan Efferding, 3 ten minute walks a day after each meal is just as effective if not more than Metformin

[Matt]

If people get sides from Metaformin they get prescribed Berberinehttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2410097/

Holy shit.

Thanks for that, joswift.

This particular family member thinks there is medicine for everything. That's not how it works. I also think that attitude can kill people.

And Big Pharma wants to force us all to be subscription customers. As if there aren't enough people who are fat, sick, and nearly dead. 

I would like this family member to get off Metformin. I don't see him cleaning up his diet that much though. Hopefully he can get on Berberine instead.

[Matt]

According to Stan Efferding, 3 ten minute walks a day after each meal is just as effective if not more than Metformin

IMO:

Drastically reducing carbohydrates, and eating whole foods only, would be a way to help make your diabetes less severe.

I'm sure walking helps your body in general, but how does it help diabetes?

[joswift]

Just reading a book called Primal Cure by Steve Bennett

Everything we have been taught by the "health industry" over the last 70 years is totally wrong

Modern diet is making people reliant on prescription meds

[Matt]

Just reading a book called Primal Cure by Steve Bennett

Everything we have been taught by the "health industry" over the last 70 years is totally wrong

Modern diet is making people reliant on prescription meds

I will check YouTube and Rumble/Odysse, etc, for his videos.

It's maddening to think how much of what we are taught is completely wrong.

Is there one specific culprit causing people to need prescription medication?

High carbs + high processing?

[joswift]

I will check YouTube and Rumble/Odysse, etc, for his videos.

It's maddening to think how much of what we are taught is completely wrong.

Is there one specific culprit causing people to need prescription medication?

High carbs + high processing?

One of the myths he busts is "make sure you understand food labels so you know what you are eating"

His response
Real food doesnt have labels

[Marty Champions]

IMO:

Drastically reducing carbohydrates, and eating whole foods only, would be a way to help make your diabetes less severe.

I'm sure walking helps your body in general, but how does it help diabetes?

reducing carbs makes people sedentary and not very robust. You and bast are ripped but also mostly sedentary

[joswift]

reducing carbs makes people sedentary and not very robust. You and bast are ripped but also mostly sedentary

You couldnt be more wrong if you tried
https://www.gym-pact.com/extreme-fatigue-after-eating-carbs

[loco]

^ Is the general consensus that Type II diabetes is curable?

Curable is not the right word.  But yes, Type 2 diabetes can most certainly be reversed or put into remission.

This is defined by having 5 consecutive years of normal blood glucose levels without the help of medications.

This is achievable by one of four known methods:

1. Gastric bypass surgery.

2. A very strict, very low calorie diet.

3. A very strict, whole foods, very low fat vegan diet.

4. A very strict, whole foods, very meat heavy ketogenic diet.

Notice #3 and #4 are complete opposites.  What they have in common is they are both whole foods.  So no processed junk food.

What they have in common too is that they don't mix high/moderate carbs and high/moderate fats as the Standard American Diet does.  It's best to choose low fat or low carb and stick with it long term.

Eating a diet that is high/moderate in processed foods, high/moderate fat, and high/moderate carb at the same time is one of the main causes of obesity, insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, non-alcoholic fatty liver, acid reflux, high blood pressure, PCOS, auto immune disorders, and many other health conditions.

[Matt]

One of the myths he busts is "make sure you understand food labels so you know what you are eating"

His response
Real food doesnt have labels

That's what I started doing last June 30th, once gyms reopened, and I got back on a "bro diet".

My diet is always good - but I decided that if Western society is now dedicated to FORCING PEOPLE TO BE UNHEALTHY, I may as well do EVERYTHING I can to be as healthy as possible.

I exclusively eat the following foods:

[1] Chicken breast.
[2] White rice
[3] Oats.
[4] Egg Whites.
[5] Whole Eggs.
[6] Protein Powder.
[7] 2% Milk.
[8] Frozen mixed vegetables.
[9] Cottage Cheese.
[10] Beef.
[11] Bananas
[12] Chunk Light Tuna.
[13] Mustard.
[14] Steak Spice.

^ I also take supplemental Vitamin D, occasional Melatonin, and will sometimes include potatoes and sweet potatoes and butter, as well as apples [but not many, due to the sugar content].

Basically, if it has a label, I don't eat it.

Let me know if there is anything I should add to or subtract from that list. I'm always seeking to refine my diet, especially in these crazy times.

I also allow myself one cheat meal a week, fit into my macros, and one cheat meal a month. I basically never indulge in either though. I'm quite content just eating those same foods every day.

I also consume caffeine about once a week, and I allow myself a chocolate bar or equivalent once a week, but probably have closer to 1-2 such snacks a month.

Personally, I have no problem following that diet.

Basically, my new attitude on food is: if it has a label, don't eat it.

Not that I follow that 100%, but probably over 95% of my calories come from whole foods.

Remember this?:

[Matt]

Curable is not the right word.  But yes, Type 2 diabetes can most certainly be reversed or put into remission.

This is defined by having 5 consecutive years of normal blood glucose levels without the help of medications.

This is achievable by one of four known methods:

1. Gastric bypass surgery.

2. A very strict, very low calorie diet.

3. A very strict, whole foods, very low fat vegan diet.

4. A very strict, whole foods, very meat heavy ketogenic diet.

Notice #3 and #4 are complete opposites.  What they have in common is they are both whole foods.  So no processed junk food.

What they have in common too is that they don't mix high/moderate carbs and high/moderate fats as the Standard American Diet does.  It's best to choose low fat or low carb and stick with it long term.

Eating a diet that is high/moderate in processed foods, high/moderate fat, and high/moderate carb at the same time is one of the main causes of obesity, insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, acid reflux, high blood pressure, PCOS, auto immune disorders, and many other health conditions.

In some sense, would you say that all of us sort of have Type II diabetes in remission?

I mean, if I start eating high volumes of processed crap, I can eventually get Type II diabetes, right?

So we keep diabetes at bay by eating a healthy diet, such as the ones you outlined, right?

My family member believes health comes in pill form.

He quit drinking years ago, and quit drinking regular pop when he was diagnosed with diabetes. But he still eats plate fulls of spaghetti, and other high carb meals.

On the surface, his diet does not look unhealthy, but it's just carb-laden, high calorie stuff.

I am certain that if he were to just reduce his carbs to under 100g daily like I do, he would not need Metformin...or maybe need 1/4 or 1/2 as much as he currently uses.

I am always naturally just a touch into ketosis. I've never taken ketosis to the extreme, because - as we all know - dieting in the extreme also comes with risk.

I wish more people cared about health. In my region, covering the surrounding area into both neighbouring provinces, 68% of people are overweight or obese. 

[Flexacon]

Really?

Is that a consensus or emerging consensus?

I by no means trust Big Pharma, and in fact my trust in Big Pharma is so low, that I never want to set foot in a hospital ever again.

I've also heard Metformin is carcinogenic.

But the rational side of me has to stop to remind me: Big Pharma does have a time and a place.

joswift, the reason why I'm asking is because a family member is a Type II diabetic due to poor diet. I would prefer he just clean up his diet, but he was not once time to do that by his doctor.

I'd prefer if he get off Metformin though.

Do you mean to say he can just switch to Berberine?

Or does that depend on the individual?

Away from diabetes there are also studies that show metformin also has life extending properties.

Unless this person has specifically asked you, I would suggest you stop trying to play doctor for them. They won't thank you for it, only blame you for whatever goes wrong.

Also switch the white rice for basmati rice if you want to be extra.

[Matt]

Away from diabetes there are also studies that show metformin also has life extending properties.

Unless this person has specifically asked you, I would suggest you stop trying to play doctor for them. They won't thank you for it, only blame you for whatever goes wrong.

I wouldn't tell them to personally give up Metformin.

This is the kind of dumb self-doctoring we have here in Canada with our Indigenous population, where our government is allowing Indigenous wellness healers to prescribe absolutely ridiculous stupid shit to Indigenous people that has no scientific basis whatsoever, and - SURPRISE, SURPRISE - isn't working at all! 

However, if diabetes is potentially something that can be put into remission - which, it appears to me it can be - I want to forewarn about the negative properties of Metformin, and encourage a cleaner diet.

One reason why I wouldn't push it with this family member is because he was furious that I may have brought Covid into his house last year because his wife had a sore throat that had NOTHING to do with me.

Both of them eat absolute SHIT diets, and both have health conditions as a result of their diets, and I have no tolerance for unhealthy people accusing me of bringing in Covid, when I can literally contact trace EVERY PERSON I SHARE AIR WITH. I have a mental list of everyone I hung out with over the past 30 days at any given time, and my gym has cameras in it, so I can literally track everyone I'm in contact with.

I go to Wal-Mart once a month to buy a month's supply of food, so I had NOTHING to do with his wife's sore throat, which was a seasonal allergy change, if anything. It wasn't Covid. And whatever it was, it wasn't me who caused it.

I honestly can't stand people like the type of woman in that cartoon, who have a horrible lifestyle, yet would call 9-1-1 on me for not wearing a mask.

This is why I don't invest much emotion in other people's problems - I live in a country of overweight and obese opioid-addicted alcoholics who want to lock me away forever for breathing air, as if I'm the reason they are fat and unhealthy. 

However, I DO feel the need to play doctor here for two reasons:

[1] I'm smarter than his doctor. I have no doubt about that.
[2] NOT ONCE in nearly 20 years has his idiot doctor told him that his diabetes can be improved with diet. Not once! And in fact, other than telling him to switch to diet pop, he has NEVER even told him to clean up his diet.

Western medicine may be the best in the world, but it's glorified drug pushing.

They don't want us dead. But they don't want us CURED. The money is in the MIDDLE, and the system is just making me more and more disgusted with it all the time.

I am certain that his diabetes could be managed just through diet. And given how scared he was during Covid, it just makes me wonder why he doesn't care.

Clearly, most people don't want to die - but they also don't want to do ANYTHING, apparently, to be healthy. Except call 9-1-1 on people for breathing air. 

Also switch the white rice for basmati rice if you want to be extra.

Tell me all about it.

Is that a lower glycemic rice?

Also, someone said that it's important to always eat rice/carbs with protein. So a bowl of rice alone is a problem, diet-wise.

Is there any truth to that, or is that just Bro Science?

I eat under 100g of carbohydrates daily, so I can't imagine that being a problem, even if I ate it all at once?

[Flexacon]

Tell me all about it.

Is that a lower glycemic rice?

Also, someone said that it's important to always eat rice/carbs with protein. So a bowl of rice alone is a problem, diet-wise.

Is there any truth to that, or is that just Bro Science?

I eat under 100g of carbohydrates daily, so I can't imagine that being a problem, even if I ate it all at once?

Yes. Lower GI, also most people find it smells pleasant and tastes better.

For bodybuilders/muscle enthusiasts protein with carbs seems sensible. Helps shuttle nutrients etc. Meal is more filling and digests slower. The last part is important for managing diabetes.

Doctors generally don't give diet advice to diabetics. They usually refer people to a nutritionists.

[Matt]

Yes. Lower GI, also most people find it smells pleasant and tastes better.

For bodybuilders/muscle enthusiasts protein with carbs seems sensible. Helps shuttle nutrients etc. Meal is more filling and digests slower. The last part is important for managing diabetes.

Doctors generally don't give diet advice to diabetics. They usually refer people to a nutritionists.

If something helps to manage diabetes...would it stand to reason that following those principles would possibly help prevent diabetes?

I take nothing for granted.

That said, does it even matter if I'm consistently eating under 100g of carbohydrates, would I even be at risk to worry about that stuff? For the nutrient shuttling [optimizing muscle gains], I would do that...I'm just wondering if I'm possibly putting myself at risk for diabetes or pancreatic damage.

Pancreatic cancer is insidious.

My friend's friend got Type II diabetes in 2016 when he was 30...he was surprised, and so was I. I think his diet was a lot worse than he let on. I am astounded at how horribly people eat - especially given how scared everyone seems to be of dying, judging from the pandemic response.

Regarding rice, I switched from brown rice to white rice because my friend said Asians - who are big rice eaters - eat white rice the most. So there must be some rationale there.

I also buy 10kg bags of rice because it's cheap sustenance - and I want to have stores of it at home in case the food shortages are not gradual, but just hit us like a hammer one day. Hopefully, things will collapse in freefall, rather than just suddenly break down one day. But I'm just being cautious, to keep a few months worth of rice at home at any given time.

I will do the switch to Basmati rice - seems like an easy switch, and I'll take any marginal improvements I can that come in the form of a quick switch like that.

[loco]

In some sense, would you say that all of us sort of have Type II diabetes in remission?

No, I wouldn't say that.  Type 2 diabetes is a metabolic disease.  We don't all have it, and some will never have it.

I mean, if I start eating high volumes of processed crap, I can eventually get Type II diabetes, right?

Eventually, it's very likely.  It's not 100% for everyone.

So we keep diabetes at bay by eating a healthy diet, such as the ones you outlined, right?

The methods I listed are for reversing Type 2 Diabetes.  To prevent it, you may not have to be that strict.  But yes, if you can be that strict and you are able to sustain it long term or for life, you are very likely to prevent Type 2 Diabetes and a very long list of other health conditions.

There are worse things than Type 2 Diabetes, such as cancer and dementia, that could be prevented via life style choices.

I am certain that if he were to just reduce his carbs to under 100g daily like I do, he would not need Metformin...or maybe need 1/4 or 1/2 as much as he currently uses.

I am always naturally just a touch into ketosis. I've never taken ketosis to the extreme, because - as we all know - dieting in the extreme also comes with risk.

If he decided to reverse Type 2 Diabetes via a whole foods, very meat heavy ketogenic diet, he would need to reduce his carbs to under 20g daily, at least until his condition is in remission.

More than 20g carbs daily is not going to cut it for someone who is already metabolically damaged.  Most people will need to consume less than 20g carbs daily in order to get into nutritional ketosis.  Very few people (young and very athletic) can manage to get  into nutritional ketosis consuming more carbs daily than that.

He could also go with a very strict, whole foods, very low fat vegan diet.  But many people find this far more difficult and far less sustainable than a very meat heavy keto diet.  And long term it has the potential for nutrient deficiencies (Essential amino acids, essential fatty acids, B-12, D, iodine, calcium, selenium, iron, etc.), especially in a calorie deficit.

I recommend Dr. Eric Westman's keto diet.  It's simple, straightforward, and very effective.  Download the list of foods validated and used by Dr. Eric Westman.

https://store.payloadz.com/details/2611109-ebooks-health-page-4-diet.html

Dr. Westman has been conducting clinical research on the keto diet for 20 years using his version of the keto diet to successfully reverse obesity, type 2 diabetes, PCOS, acid reflux, high blood pressure, non-alcoholic fatty liver, and other health conditions for thousands of patients.

He is an Associate Professor of Medicine at Duke University. He is Board Certified in Obesity Medicine and Internal Medicine and founded the Duke Keto Medicine Clinic.

[Phantom Spunker]

I really need to make some big changes to my diet this year. I live off processed crap, pastas, fried rice, and risottos, but it's finally catching up on me and my stomach is always fucked. Life without carbs is so shit, though.

[Marty Champions]

You couldnt be more wrong if you tried
https://www.gym-pact.com/extreme-fatigue-after-eating-carbs

yeah bro meanwhile your skin is rotting keep eating meat diet

[Marty Champions]

I really need to make some big changes to my diet this year. I live off processed crap, pastas, fried rice, and risottos, but it's finally catching up on me and my stomach is always fucked. Life without carbs is so shit, though.

eat like joswift recommends shingles and psoriasis only side effects

[loco]

reducing carbs makes people sedentary and not very robust.

Interesting.  Do you have any sources to back up this claim?

[Flexacon]

If something helps to manage diabetes...would it stand to reason that following those principles would possibly help prevent diabetes?

I take nothing for granted.

That said, does it even matter if I'm consistently eating under 100g of carbohydrates, would I even be at risk to worry about that stuff? For the nutrient shuttling [optimizing muscle gains], I would do that...I'm just wondering if I'm possibly putting myself at risk for diabetes or pancreatic damage.

Pancreatic cancer is insidious.

My friend's friend got Type II diabetes in 2016 when he was 30...he was surprised, and so was I. I think his diet was a lot worse than he let on. I am astounded at how horribly people eat - especially given how scared everyone seems to be of dying, judging from the pandemic response.

Regarding rice, I switched from brown rice to white rice because my friend said Asians - who are big rice eaters - eat white rice the most. So there must be some rationale there.

I also buy 10kg bags of rice because it's cheap sustenance - and I want to have stores of it at home in case the food shortages are not gradual, but just hit us like a hammer one day. Hopefully, things will collapse in freefall, rather than just suddenly break down one day. But I'm just being cautious, to keep a few months worth of rice at home at any given time.

I will do the switch to Basmati rice - seems like an easy switch, and I'll take any marginal improvements I can that come in the form of a quick switch like that.

Loco answered some of your points.

The rationale for white rice over brown is mostly a taste preference. Brown rice can be somewhat rubbery, but has lower GI, white is excellent at absorbing other flavours so is a great accompaniment for most dishes. Basmati is the best of both just at a slightly higher price point.

If you want a great rice hack though do this. When cooking the rice add some coconut oil. Let the cooked rice cool down a bit and then put it in the fridge for at least 12 hours. When you're ready to eat just microwave the rice with an icecube on top or with a table spoon of water and it will be fluffy again.

Why do this? The rice absorbs the coconut oil during the cooking process and during the chilling process neutralises 50% of the carbohydrate content of the rice (structure of the rice granule changes so it becomes resistant to digestive enzymes). Reheating the rice doesn't change this. So you can eat the same volume of rice with only 50% of the carb content. Works well with both white rice and basmati.