Author Topic: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit  (Read 5310 times)

Freemason

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #75 on: June 22, 2022, 06:23:47 AM »
Wall of text, but the short answer is no 401s are not superior to pensions for recipients. 401s are better for employers. They incur zero risk and the cost is constant and controllable. I am a recipient of a pension, have three 401s, and I have been an employer running payroll so I am well aware of the aspects of all. BTW most annuities are awful.

Lots of articles and talk of pensions having “unfunded liability” or “underfunded”. While true, the employers have to make up those shortfalls which may or may not even be real, as that is a calculation of how much a fund needs to pay out every participant until life expectancy. Good years of investing often cover those liabilities. Very rare a pensioner loses out due to failure of a pension as they are all insured. 401 retirees get fucked every year. My father was forced into retirement by his employer with a 401 in 2009. He didn’t even realize the sum of his PERSONAL contributions. Total ass raping.



Simple fact, for employers pensions are expensive. That’s because the recipients get what they earned. 401s are cheap. Because recipients RARELY get what they should.

I have investments in 401s, but only as a supplement to retirement. That’s what 401s were originally designed for back around 1980, for deferred comp plans that supplement pensions. Once employers realized the savings they abandoned pensions in droves.


IroNat

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #76 on: June 22, 2022, 07:12:34 AM »
Is your pension from a government job, Freemason?

Soul Crusher

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #77 on: June 22, 2022, 07:30:03 AM »
Went into Fidelity to check the account and its lighter by 8k bucks.  WTF is going on.  So pissed

You voted for this remember ?

loco

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #78 on: June 22, 2022, 09:03:39 AM »
Wall of text, but the short answer is no 401s are not superior to pensions for recipients. 401s are better for employers. They incur zero risk and the cost is constant and controllable. I am a recipient of a pension, have three 401s, and I have been an employer running payroll so I am well aware of the aspects of all. BTW most annuities are awful.

Lots of articles and talk of pensions having “unfunded liability” or “underfunded”. While true, the employers have to make up those shortfalls which may or may not even be real, as that is a calculation of how much a fund needs to pay out every participant until life expectancy. Good years of investing often cover those liabilities. Very rare a pensioner loses out due to failure of a pension as they are all insured. 401 retirees get fucked every year. My father was forced into retirement by his employer with a 401 in 2009. He didn’t even realize the sum of his PERSONAL contributions. Total ass raping.



Simple fact, for employers pensions are expensive. That’s because the recipients get what they earned. 401s are cheap. Because recipients RARELY get what they should.

I have investments in 401s, but only as a supplement to retirement. That’s what 401s were originally designed for back around 1980, for deferred comp plans that supplement pensions. Once employers realized the savings they abandoned pensions in droves.

You misunderstand me.

I am not saying 401Ks are superior to pensions, nor am I saying pensions are bad.

Best case scenario is to have both, like you have.  You are indeed very fortunate.

What I am saying is that if I had to choose one, I personally would choose 401K because I know how to use it to my own advantage knowing very basic investing principles most people don't care to learn and apply.  I already listed all the reasons why I prefer 401K over pension if I had to choose one.

401K is nowhere near as bad as you seem to believe.  I am sorry that happened to your dad, but 401K plans in general are not to blame for that.

Pension plans are not as great and bulletproof as you seem to believe.  I already listed all the reasons why they aren't.

If pension plans are so great and bulletproof, why were 401K plans invented to supplement pension plans?

If 401K plans are as terrible as you say, why did you contribute to one at all?

Pension plans are good for most people, but unfortunately most people today don't have access to one because they are quickly becoming a thing of the past.

What is your advice to young working people who don't have access to a pension plan, if not to contribute to their available 401K plan?

King Shizzo

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #79 on: June 22, 2022, 09:23:20 AM »
I'm starting to wonder if having a huge savings account is worth it,
especially if you do not have children.

Some people are so obsessed with obtaining wealth and saving, that they forget that they can die tomorrow. What's good about having all that money if you are dead?

I'm not saying that you should live paycheck to paycheck, but it doesn't hurt to also live your life. The future is not guaranteed. Live for the present.

Have life insurance for your family. Spend everything else.

GymnJuice

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #80 on: June 22, 2022, 09:30:22 AM »
I'm starting to wonder if having a huge savings account is worth it,
especially if you do not have children.

Some people are so obsessed with obtaining wealth and saving, that they forget that they can die tomorrow. What's good about having all that money if you are dead?

I'm not saying that you should live paycheck to paycheck, but it doesn't hurt to also live your life. The future is not guaranteed. Live for the present.

Have life insurance for your family. Spend everything else.

I'm not a financial expert but everything I've ready about life insurance, term life insurance etc. seems inferior to just plugging your money into the 401k. Then if you have leftovers an HSA and if more leftover a 529. Or you could just pay your taxes on the money now and throw it in the market anticipating higher tax rates in the years to come.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #81 on: June 22, 2022, 10:04:48 AM »
I'm starting to wonder if having a huge savings account is worth it,
especially if you do not have children.

Some people are so obsessed with obtaining wealth and saving, that they forget that they can die tomorrow. What's good about having all that money if you are dead?

I'm not saying that you should live paycheck to paycheck, but it doesn't hurt to also live your life. The future is not guaranteed. Live for the present.

Have life insurance for your family. Spend everything else.
I agree. Most people investing are simply putting off enjoying life until they are either dead or too sick and weak to enjoy that money they saved.

Having a paid off house, no consumer debt, term life insurance for dependents, long term care insurance for those over 60, great health insurance plan, along with a 1 year supply of cash to pay all bills and 1 year supply of food is far superior to hundreds of thousands in investment portfolio money.

IroNat

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #82 on: June 22, 2022, 10:18:28 AM »
One reason to accumulate wealth is so you can retire and get off the treadmill.

Put your money to work so you don't have to.

You need to start young though to utilize compound interest.

Except in rarified estate planning circumstances, life insurance replaces income lost when a wage earner dies unexpectedly so the family can continue.

I've met a few men who don't care what happens to their wife and kids if they die unexpectedly.

Real bums.

IroNat

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #83 on: June 22, 2022, 10:24:04 AM »
I agree. Most people investing are simply putting off enjoying life until they are either dead or too sick and weak to enjoy that money they saved.

Having a paid off house, no consumer debt, term life insurance for dependents, long term care insurance for those over 60, great health insurance plan, along with a 1 year supply of cash to pay all bills and 1 year supply of food is far superior to hundreds of thousands in investment portfolio money.

Wnere does your income come from in this scenario?  Work?

What about when you retire?

Humble Narcissist

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #84 on: June 22, 2022, 10:24:40 AM »
One reason to accumulate wealth is so you can retire and get off the treadmill.

Put your money to work so you don't have to.

You need to start young though to utilize compound interest.

Except in rarified estate planning circumstances, life insurance replaces income lost when a wage earner dies unexpectedly so the family can continue.

I've met a few men who don't care what happens to their wife and kids if they die unexpectedly.

Real bums.
True, but that takes decades. GET RICH QUICK 'CAUSE GETTING RICH SLOWLY TAKES TOO LONG!

Humble Narcissist

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #85 on: June 22, 2022, 10:27:40 AM »
Wnere does your income come from in this scenario?  Work?

What about when you retire?
I'm talking about those who invest a large portion of their income. It would be better to pay off the house with that money and spend the extra cash on those things listed. Of course, you have to park money somewhere to live off of even if you have done all that.

loco

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #86 on: June 22, 2022, 11:37:37 AM »
I'm starting to wonder if having a huge savings account is worth it,
especially if you do not have children.

Some people are so obsessed with obtaining wealth and saving, that they forget that they can die tomorrow. What's good about having all that money if you are dead?

I'm not saying that you should live paycheck to paycheck, but it doesn't hurt to also live your life. The future is not guaranteed. Live for the present.

Have life insurance for your family. Spend everything else.

I agree. Most people investing are simply putting off enjoying life until they are either dead or too sick and weak to enjoy that money they saved.

Having a paid off house, no consumer debt, term life insurance for dependents, long term care insurance for those over 60, great health insurance plan, along with a 1 year supply of cash to pay all bills and 1 year supply of food is far superior to hundreds of thousands in investment portfolio money.

You invest part of your income now in stocks, and/or bonds, and/or your own business, and/or real estate so that you can maintain your lifestyle when you are no longer working for somebody else.

People stop working for somebody else because of health issues, or because they are tired and ready to do something they enjoy, or simply because they are financially independent and they can retire.

Whatever the reason, you don't want to end up having to live under a bridge eating cat food because you didn't plan for the days when you are no longer working.

loco

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #87 on: June 22, 2022, 11:42:34 AM »
I'm talking about those who invest a large portion of their income. It would be better to pay off the house with that money and spend the extra cash on those things listed.

You can do all of the above with hard work, discipline and patience.

Of course, you have to park money somewhere to live off of even if you have done all that.

And where would that be?

Humble Narcissist

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #88 on: June 23, 2022, 02:49:34 AM »
You can do all of the above with hard work, discipline and patience.

And where would that be?
Cash, real estate, foreign currency, precious metals, bonds, etc.

loco

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #89 on: June 23, 2022, 03:13:12 AM »
Cash, real estate, foreign currency, precious metals, bonds, etc.

Didn't you just agree with Shizzo that saving and investing is not worth it, and that one should live for today, enjoy life, and spend it all because tomorrow is not guaranteed?

The only investments you mentioned that are winners are real estate and bonds.  US iBonds are paying almost 10% interest now until November, when the interest will be re-calculated for the following six months and it could get even higher because of inflation.

Cash is getting crushed by inflation right now.  Investing in foreign currency is way too risky for the low returns, not worth it.  Precious metals barely keep up with inflation.  None of these would provide enough income in retirement.

Historically US stocks and US stock index funds by far outpace inflation overtime and then some.  Real estate is a very close second, but it isn't passive like investing in US stock index funds.  Investing in real estate is also more difficult to succeed with, and easier to screw up.

Gym-Rat

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #90 on: June 23, 2022, 03:25:27 AM »
What might be a good option for those of us getting close (to retirement) be, as it relates to 401K's and moving them elsewhere (if possible) like an IRA, Index-Fund, etc?

Humble Narcissist

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #91 on: June 23, 2022, 03:33:37 AM »
Didn't you just agree with Shizzo that saving and investing is not worth it, and that one should live for today, enjoy life, and spend it all because tomorrow is not guaranteed?

The only investments you mentioned that are winners are real estate and bonds.  US iBonds are paying almost 10% interest now until November, when the interest will be re-calculated for the following six months and it could get even higher because of inflation.

Cash is getting crushed by inflation right now.  Investing in foreign currency is way too risky for the low returns, not worth it.  Precious metals barely keep up with inflation.  None of these would provide enough income in retirement.

Historically US stocks and US stock index funds by far outpace inflation overtime and then some.  Real estate is a very close second, but it isn't passive like investing in US stock index funds.  Investing in real estate is also more difficult to succeed with, and easier to screw up.
I was talking about mostly stocks but over investing in anything is a waste. If you have a paid off house and the other things I originally mentioned you can live off your social security check.

loco

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #92 on: June 23, 2022, 04:18:51 AM »
What might be a good option for those of us getting close (to retirement) be, as it relates to 401K's and moving them elsewhere (if possible) like an IRA, Index-Fund, etc?

Depends on how close to retirement you are, how much you have already saved, what your annual expenses are/will be in retirement, whether or not you have a pension, own investment properties, when you plan on claiming social security, etc.

Typically a person needs a retirement account balance of minimum 25x their annual expenses on the day they decide to retire.

When you are accumulating for retirement it's hard to go wrong with a total US stock index fund such as VTSAX or it's ETF equivalent VTI in your traditional IRA and/or Roth IRA if you are 7 years or more away from retirement.

Your 401K should have a S&P 500 index fund and if you're lucky a total US stock index fund such as a Russell 1000 index fund.  Always look at the fund's expense ratio and go with the cheapest one.

If you are risk adverse and stock market volatility is keeping you up at night, keep 10% to 40% of your retirement portfolio in a total US bond market index fund.  This will smooth your portfolio's volatility, but it will slow down growth too.

If you have a mortgage, car loan, etc., make sure you keep 3 to 6 months expenses in a savings account for emergencies.

If you want to retire at age 55 using the rule of 55 to withdraw from your 401K penalty free, you'll have to keep your 401K with your final employer's plan and not roll it over anywhere.  In fact, you'll want to beef up your latest 401K by rolling over to it any former employer's 401Ks you may have left behind, and even any traditional IRA you may have.  You'll want to do this before you retire at age 55.

Check with your employer's 401K plan provider to make sure your plan allows partial withdrawals and won't force you to withdraw a lump sum.  That would be a tax disaster.

For strategies that apply to you specifically, look for a "fee only" financial advisor who is fiduciary.  You'll pay by the hour or per session.  It won't be cheap, but it will give you a better picture of where you are and how to get to your goals.

Avoid financial advisors who are more salesmen than anything and want to sell you products (whole life insurance, annuities, etc.) and want to manage your accounts for a percentage of your nest egg.

Most importantly, think about your options for health insurance if you are retiring before age 65.  Christians have the option of health sharing ministries such as Medi-Share.  That has worked very well for many Christian early retirees.  Some millionaire early retirees get on Obamacare.  A few fortunate ones get health insurance from their employer after retirement until they qualify for Medicare.

loco

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #93 on: June 23, 2022, 04:28:33 AM »
I was talking about mostly stocks but over investing in anything is a waste. If you have a paid off house and the other things I originally mentioned you can live off your social security check.

With the vast majority of the population ill-prepared for retirement, many of them high earners too, I'd say over investing is a "problem" very few people have, a problem many wish they had.

youandme

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #94 on: June 23, 2022, 04:30:04 AM »
Pretty amazing the economy is taking a nose dive and congressional turds are going to extend the Jan 6 hearings. Haven’t even watched that pony show but you’d think they’d be focusing on what’s impacting the people - doesn’t impact those corrupt turds.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #95 on: June 24, 2022, 02:03:18 AM »
With the vast majority of the population ill-prepared for retirement, many of them high earners too, I'd say over investing is a "problem" very few people have, a problem many wish they had.
Those heavily invested in the stock market are taking a bath right now. Losing a decades worth of invested money in a few months must sting.

FitnessFrenzy

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #96 on: June 24, 2022, 02:55:55 AM »
Losing a decades worth of invested money in a few months must sting.

That is the case with Shopify and other similar super expensive growth stocks. If you have S&P 500, you have lost the last 18 months of returns.

Personally, I am just holding enough cash so I can ride out the volatility. The extreme inflation from 1970 - 1980 (approximately) was a 10 year period where stock returns were about flat. Let us hope that is not what will happen in the next 10 years. Nobody knows.

Gym-Rat

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #97 on: June 24, 2022, 03:51:51 AM »
Depends on how close to retirement you are, how much you have already saved, what your annual expenses are/will be in retirement, whether or not you have a pension, own investment properties, when you plan on claiming social security, etc.

Typically a person needs a retirement account balance of minimum 25x their annual expenses on the day they decide to retire.

When you are accumulating for retirement it's hard to go wrong with a total US stock index fund such as VTSAX or it's ETF equivalent VTI in your traditional IRA and/or Roth IRA if you are 7 years or more away from retirement.

Your 401K should have a S&P 500 index fund and if you're lucky a total US stock index fund such as a Russell 1000 index fund.  Always look at the fund's expense ratio and go with the cheapest one.

If you are risk adverse and stock market volatility is keeping you up at night, keep 10% to 40% of your retirement portfolio in a total US bond market index fund.  This will smooth your portfolio's volatility, but it will slow down growth too.

If you have a mortgage, car loan, etc., make sure you keep 3 to 6 months expenses in a savings account for emergencies.

If you want to retire at age 55 using the rule of 55 to withdraw from your 401K penalty free, you'll have to keep your 401K with your final employer's plan and not roll it over anywhere.  In fact, you'll want to beef up your latest 401K by rolling over to it any former employer's 401Ks you may have left behind, and even any traditional IRA you may have.  You'll want to do this before you retire at age 55.

Check with your employer's 401K plan provider to make sure your plan allows partial withdrawals and won't force you to withdraw a lump sum.  That would be a tax disaster.

For strategies that apply to you specifically, look for a "fee only" financial advisor who is fiduciary.  You'll pay by the hour or per session.  It won't be cheap, but it will give you a better picture of where you are and how to get to your goals.

Avoid financial advisors who are more salesmen than anything and want to sell you products (whole life insurance, annuities, etc.) and want to manage your accounts for a percentage of your nest egg.

Most importantly, think about your options for health insurance if you are retiring before age 65.  Christians have the option of health sharing ministries such as Medi-Share.  That has worked very well for many Christian early retirees.  Some millionaire early retirees get on Obamacare.  A few fortunate ones get health insurance from their employer after retirement until they qualify for Medicare.

This is outstanding info loco, that you!!

GymnJuice

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #98 on: June 24, 2022, 04:30:04 AM »
Those heavily invested in the stock market are taking a bath right now. Losing a decades worth of invested money in a few months must sting.

For a broad market fund YTD down 22%, over the past 1 year down 15%, over the past 3 years up 23%, over the past 5 years up 50%.

loco

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Re: My 401k Has Turn To Complete Shit
« Reply #99 on: June 24, 2022, 05:22:45 AM »
This is outstanding info loco, that you!!

You are welcome!