Author Topic: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney  (Read 12055 times)

beakdoctor

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #100 on: October 14, 2022, 02:54:31 PM »
Where do Heath and Cutler fit on your tiers?

2nd group. Good arguments can be made for either one. I personally don't  care for Heath  but his achievements are undeniable.  Jay looked incredible in 01 and 09. In fsct 01/09 Cutler looks better than any version of Heath imo but every other year Jay just looked like a fat guy with muscles spray painted on.

Like Wiggs said: no one has elevated the sport since Ronnie.

The Sport was in Arnolds shadow until Lee came along. And everyone was in Lee's shadow until Dorian came along. Everyone has been in 2003 Ronnies shadow for the past 19 years.

Taffin

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #101 on: October 14, 2022, 03:13:51 PM »
He looked like a child next to Yates in 96

Shopped

Here's the legit pic
T

Taffin

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #102 on: October 14, 2022, 03:24:13 PM »
Shawn Ray standing by himself is great. Shawn Ray next to a Mr. Olympia, not as great. Much like Cormier, he is the complete package but doesn’t have a knockout body part that puts him over the top. Combine that with a height of only 5’6, I’m not surprised that he never won. Still an incredible bodybuilder and one of the best ever though.

5'2" tops - see above  ;D
T

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Royalty

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #104 on: October 14, 2022, 04:58:15 PM »
2nd group. Good arguments can be made for either one. I personally don't  care for Heath  but his achievements are undeniable.  Jay looked incredible in 01 and 09. In fsct 01/09 Cutler looks better than any version of Heath imo but every other year Jay just looked like a fat guy with muscles spray painted on.

Like Wiggs said: no one has elevated the sport since Ronnie.

The Sport was in Arnolds shadow until Lee came along. And everyone was in Lee's shadow until Dorian came along. Everyone has been in 2003 Ronnies shadow for the past 19 years.


In my opinion Jay looked really good at the 2003 Ironman Invitational

AbrahamG

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #105 on: October 14, 2022, 08:42:00 PM »
My Olympia 1st team:
Arnold
Haney
Yates
Ronnie
Phil



beakdoctor

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #106 on: October 15, 2022, 12:19:02 AM »
Shopped

Here's the legit pic

Legit lol

Palumboism

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #107 on: October 16, 2022, 09:05:16 AM »
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MCWAY

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #108 on: October 16, 2022, 07:37:51 PM »

So you say. again.


The other shows were a means to qualify for the Olympia as well as making living for people who wasn't really going to win the Olympia. Why do think think Flex always competed in the spring shows? Easy pay day and he had a legitimate chance of winning the Olympia where Shawn never did

Flex? Labrada? Clairmonte? Nasser? lower-level? Francois won his first 4 pro shows something Shawn never did , in fact he won more pro shows in 2 years than Shawn did in 13

And yet, when he got to the Olympia, Ray placed higher. And while Ray would remain among the top 5 at the O, Francois unfortunately would never improve on his 7th-place finish.





There are other shows than lower-level that's your strawman. placing top 5 at the Olympia does not hold anymore weight then you know actually winning a professional contest. Francois winning the first 4 pro shows as a rookie and beating seasoned pro in the process with infinitely more impressive than Shawn top 5 at the Olympia. The ultimate goal of entering any pro contest is to win it. Shawn almost never won. You can't escape that.

Yes it does. Why do you think Shawn Ray is in the iFBB Hall of Fame, whereas Francois, Charles, and other IFBB pros who have won more shows ARE NOT?

Answer: Top 5 at the Olympia, 12 years straight for Shawn Ray.



And that's all he won ever in 19 competitions. Again that's no consolation Shawn bitched & moaned about it the entire time you think he was content with top 5?  absolutely not.

Nobody claimed he was. Again, for most of his career, he competed only in the Olympia.




Where do you come up with this nonsense? If you consistently lose , it determine how great you are? What the heck?  ??? Wrong , what determined greatness if what you won and how many times. The whole point is to WIN the Olympia and not merely do well. Shawn was NEVER the best bodybuilder , he one one of the best at certain years but NEVER the best. he promised to beat the best he failed. You see it in the video he's not claiming he's there to do well or consistent. He said he was going to beat Haney. Haney is arguably the GOAT Shawn isn't , he's not in the same league , he was never a threat , he's not great in any context of the word. That's why I say he's vastly overrated he's convinced people like you he's in their league and he's NOT , NEVER was NEVER will be. He had an excellent physique did well for himself all things considered was a mediocre competitive bodybuilder  with just 2 wins to his credit and that's it.

A number of guys said they were going to beat Haney but didn't. But, Ray never being a threat? PLEASE!! He was always a threat to win. Unfortunately for him (especially in 1994), it didn't happen.

Mediocre doesn't get you in the top 5 at the Olympia, especially for a decade plus. There was a reason why placing top 10 at the Olympia automatically qualified you for the next Olympia: How you placed there determined how good you really were and that trumped even winning lower shows.


NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #109 on: October 17, 2022, 03:36:50 AM »
And yet, when he got to the Olympia, Ray placed higher. And while Ray would remain among the top 5 at the O, Francois unfortunately would never improve on his 7th-place finish.

Yes it does. Why do you think Shawn Ray is in the iFBB Hall of Fame, whereas Francois, Charles, and other IFBB pros who have won more shows ARE NOT?

Answer: Top 5 at the Olympia, 12 years straight for Shawn Ray.

Nobody claimed he was. Again, for most of his career, he competed only in the Olympia.



A number of guys said they were going to beat Haney but didn't. But, Ray never being a threat? PLEASE!! He was always a threat to win. Unfortunately for him (especially in 1994), it didn't happen.

Mediocre doesn't get you in the top 5 at the Olympia, especially for a decade plus. There was a reason why placing top 10 at the Olympia automatically qualified you for the next Olympia: How you placed there determined how good you really were and that trumped even winning lower shows.


Quote
And yet, when he got to the Olympia, Ray placed higher. And while Ray would remain among the top 5 at the O, Francois unfortunately would never improve on his 7th-place finish.

And? doesn't change the fact he won more pro shows in 2 years than Shawn did in his entire career. If Mike didn't get sick I'm sure he would've improved his placing at the Olympia


Quote
Yes it does. Why do you think Shawn Ray is in the iFBB Hall of Fame, whereas Francois, Charles, and other IFBB pros who have won more shows ARE NOT? Answer: Top 5 at the Olympia, 12 years straight for Shawn Ray.


Mike Francois is in the IFBB Hall of Fame inducted in 2011 guess who else is in it? Porter Cottrell . Al Beckles is in it too , So is Tom Platz and he never won a IFBB pro show must be the 1 time he placed 3rd at the Olympia ,  So much for that theory. And Shawn refers to himself as a " Hall of fame bodybuilder " because he can't defer to his numerous titles won because he has next to none. And who else refers to themselves as a " Hall of fame bodybuilder "? No one. They haven't inducted anyone since 2011 it's defunct

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Nobody claimed he was. Again, for most of his career, he competed only in the Olympia.

Most , not all he tried to win 4 other pro shows and lost. He entered 19 shows and won just 2 of them. Not impressive at all.



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A number of guys said they were going to beat Haney but didn't. But, Ray never being a threat? PLEASE!! He was always a threat to win. Unfortunately for him (especially in 1994), it didn't happen.

He was NEVER a threat to Haney , Yates or Coleman. History has proven this correct. 1994? He was behind Levrone after the prejudging he wasn't anywhere near Yates al all. You're out of touch with reality.

Quote
Mediocre doesn't get you in the top 5 at the Olympia, especially for a decade plus. There was a reason why placing top 10 at the Olympia automatically qualified you for the next Olympia: How you placed there determined how good you really were and that trumped even winning lower shows.

Mediocre gets you 2 professional wins in 13 years of trying. congrats Shawn was consistently the best loser but hey he's in the " Bodybuilding hall of fame " Shawn couldn't beat Haney , couldn't beat Yates and with Yates out of the picture and no excuses left couldn't beat Coleman. He was NEVER a threat to win the Olympia. Yates in his first Olympia pushed Haney who was at a career best like no one ever has and beat him in the muscularity round. The best Shawn could do is a distant second by edging out Levrone in 94 ::) in all the polls of the best bodybuilder to never win the Olympia Shawn's not at the top of the list. 5'6" 205lbs maybe in 1983 but in reality he never stood a chance. 


Royalty

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #110 on: October 17, 2022, 03:38:07 AM »
I specifically remember a Lee Haney interview from 1991 where he said that Shawn Ray had the potential to be an Olympia winner.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #111 on: October 17, 2022, 03:42:18 AM »
I specifically remember a Lee Haney interview from 1991 where he said that Shawn Ray had the potential to be an Olympia winner.


History has proven otherwise. 5'6" 205lbs He never stood a chance.

Royalty

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #112 on: October 17, 2022, 03:46:32 AM »

History has proven otherwise. 5'6" 205lbs He never stood a chance.

I think that Lee Haney may have actually been taking a shot at Lee Labrada when he gave that compliment to Shawn. Haney was basically saying that Labrada had no chance, and if anyone had a chance, it was Shawn.

I remember Haney called Labrada: “Flea Labrada”

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #113 on: October 17, 2022, 06:08:33 AM »
I think that Lee Haney may have actually been taking a shot at Lee Labrada when he gave that compliment to Shawn. Haney was basically saying that Labrada had no chance, and if anyone had a chance, it was Shawn.

I remember Haney called Labrada: “Flea Labrada”

Neither honestly stood a chance. If the 212 was around back then Shawn would've been king or Labrada but open was next level

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #114 on: October 17, 2022, 07:03:41 AM »
 ;D ;D

Wiggs

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #115 on: October 17, 2022, 07:49:31 AM »
Neither honestly stood a chance. If the 212 was around back then Shawn would've been king or Labrada but open was next level

Yeah, so next level they beat everyone but one guy. 🤨
7

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #116 on: October 17, 2022, 07:56:09 AM »
Yeah, so next level they beat everyone but one guy. 🤨

Shawn was a good fill in when the top tier guys were off. If Kevin , Flex etc where on Shawn was NOT beating them


quote Ironman Jan 1995 " The battle was between Shawn and Kevin for second "

Kevin has it all but was a little soft in prejudging , which hurt him. He wasn't quite as sharp as Shawn , but it was very close between second and third. It came down to the posedown ( Which Shawn won by a single point ).



1994 a contest people claim Shawn won  ::) He barely beat an off Kevin by a single point. Same with Flex in 1993 who was slightly off and still beat a 100% Shawn

Grape Ape

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #117 on: October 17, 2022, 08:03:45 AM »
My Olympia 1st team:
Arnold
Haney
Yates
Ronnie
Phil

gayer than having a personal mr olympia "team".
Y

Royalty

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #118 on: October 17, 2022, 01:27:36 PM »
Very good for 5’6 210LB

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #119 on: October 17, 2022, 01:32:02 PM »
Very good for 5’6 210LB

205lbs and the 1988 Mr Olympia he was 201 1/2lbs He had a phenomenal physique , however he's overrated 

Palumboism

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #120 on: October 17, 2022, 02:26:01 PM »
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Bevo

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #121 on: October 17, 2022, 06:55:09 PM »
205lbs and the 1988 Mr Olympia he was 201 1/2lbs He had a phenomenal physique , however he's overrated

Overrated would be flex wheeler, started out great at lighter body weight, then funky calves, odd shoulders, arms, failing kidneys, inferior genetics for longevity

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Back in 1991 when Shawn Ray thought that he was going to defeat Lee Haney
« Reply #122 on: October 18, 2022, 01:46:25 AM »

History has proven otherwise. 5'6" 205lbs He never stood a chance.
And people made fun of Phil Heath for being narrow.