"Muscle Maturity" is bullshit. There's no such thing.

[NoPEDsNoBB]

It's just water - intra - flotsam - fatsam...


When guys start juicing, they want to be as big as possible and as quick as possible. So what do they take? Dbol. Test. Deca.
Then they get bloated, get tired of being bloated and not seeing cuts, start getting gyno and freaking out ("wah omg my nipples look 1% bigger!! I have a tiny lump I can feel!!" ), want to lose the bloat and excess estrogen, want to harden up... so they drop the dbol... jump on anavar, prov, masteron, eq, tren, primo...

and then guess what happens?

They dry up + harden up = their muscles look denser.

[ThisisOverload]

I disagree to an extent.

I trained and did AAS for 15 years and took a 3 year break, no lifting or anything.

I was still pretty big and looked great. Just didn't weigh as much.

Once i jumped back on the gear and trained for 3-4 months i looked almost the same i did before i took the time off.

I think that's what people mean when they say maturity.

You can gain it all back so quickly.

It's not like starting from scratch.

[NoPEDsNoBB]

Most natty guy lifters who are about to start juicing are delusional permabulkers..
They start off (as natty) small and lean, reach or get close to their natty peak after 1.8 years of lifting without realizing it, post pics online and mention they want to juice, get made fun of by fatkunts saying "you're only 160lbs you twig, you have no right to juice", then permabulk their way to a fat sloppy 190lbs and then start juicing. After they've put on 30lbs of fat
Had they started juicing at 160lbs for example, they would've gotten far better results, blown up better, been tighter, drier, not had gyno...........


What fucks guys up is egotistical delusional weight-obsessed fat dumbkunts online like "Squadfather". It's why so many juiced up guys lls. It's in every guys head to weigh as much as possible before starting gear. Not for their muscles to be as big as possible and be as lean as possible.. but to WEIGH as much as possible

Women don't have this problem. They support each other, don't start off wanting to be 300lbs, they hire coaches/gurus, aren't fucking idiots, hook up with the big dawg in the gym for free gear and advice.... they start off lean, they start off with anavar, winstrol...

A lot of anorexic females have gotten (/ are getting) into bodybuilding these days.  They all seem to start juicing from day 1 in the gym and blow up while staying lean, dry, tight, "mature"...

Being lean is key. Start lean. Be lean.

[NoPEDsNoBB]

I disagree to an extent.

I trained and did AAS for 15 years and took a 3 year break, no lifting or anything.

I was still pretty big and looked great. Just didn't weigh as much.

Once i jumped back on the gear and trained for 3-4 months i looked almost the same i did before i took the time off.

I think that's what people mean when they say maturity.

You can gain it all back so quickly.

It's not like starting from scratch.

No, I don't think so.  They think muscles get denser with age / lifting experience.


You're confusing "muscle maturity" with "muscle memory".

[Humble Narcissist]

Muscles get saggier with age.

[NoPEDsNoBB]

Muscles get saggier with age.

You're confusing muscles with skin and fat.

[ThisisOverload]

No, I don't think so.  They think muscles get denser with age / lifting experience.


You're confusing "muscle maturity" with "muscle memory".

Maybe so, all the people i've trained with over the years refer to maturity as the ability to keep gains.

It's impossible to make muscles more "dense" over time.

Some say using GH and other growth factors do this, i didn't notice it.

[Humble Narcissist]

Maybe so, all the people i've trained with over the years refer to maturity as the ability to keep gains.

It's impossible to make muscles more "dense" over time.

Some say using GH and other growth factors do this, i didn't notice it.

It seems those who lift heavier weights have a denser look. Like Yates as opposed to Taylor.

[ThisisOverload]

It seems those who lift heavier weights have a denser look. Like Yates as opposed to Taylor.

I think it's genetics.

Who knows.

I know my muscle density never changed regardless of my strength.

If anything, i'm denser now and i train with light weights for volume.

My legs are dense as fuck, and i'm training with half the weight i used to 10 years ago.

[Humble Narcissist]

I think it's genetics.

Who knows.

I know my muscle density never changed regardless of my strength.

If anything, i'm denser now and i train with light weights for volume.

My legs are dense as fuck, and i'm training with half the weight i used to 10 years ago.

Could be.

[Phantom Spunker]

Yeah, I've always understood it as something distinct from muscle memory and it's never made sense to me, either. People would say things along the lines of 'so-and-so needs more time to get that thick, grainy look; they need more muscle maturity.' Always seemed like nonsense.

[Dalnet]

Muscle maturity only comes to those who have paid their dues.

[BBSSchlemiel]

Re: Women “aren’t fucking idiots.”

Apparently some are so idiotic that they literally drop dead from following their idiotic coaches’ recommendations.

How many female bodybuilders do you know personally?

[robcguns]

I’ve always believed muscle maturity was a thing but the way you explain it you may be correct. Although I do believe you get muscle density with years of heavy lifting which has a different look. So maybe it’s meant to be muscle density verse maturity.

[Dalnet]

I’ve always believed muscle maturity was a thing but the way you explain it you may be correct. Although I do believe you get muscle density with years of heavy lifting which has a different look. So maybe it’s meant to be muscle density verse maturity.

I think there may be something in it, tbh.

"In April 2007, the Department of Animal and Food Science conducted a study examining the tenderness and oxidative stability of post-mortem muscles from cows of various ages. The researchers confirmed meat is most tender in young animals and muscle fibers become tough and hard when subject to a lot of muscular action; according to biopsies obtained from necks and leg tissue. Advanced maturation not only intensified cow meat toughness but also lowered its oxidative stability. Collagen, the basic substance of the connective tissue bundling groups of muscle fibers together, is known to breakdown easier in young and tender muscle tissue, when boiled in water. This fibrous protein gets tougher with age due to an increasing number and type of cross-links. In this respect, muscle maturity could refer to a change in the muscle tissue’s architecture; more specifically, a change in collagen solubility.


At low body fat percentages, the thickness of encompassing tissue will have the greatest influence over the outward appearance of underlying muscle. Enlarging muscle fibers with progressive resistance training stretches surrounding fascia and thins out the skin. Stretch marks occur when skin stretches fast enough to rupture elastic fibers. Skin thickness varies greatly between different body sites. The thinnest epidermis lies over the abdominals and thorax. The arms and legs are generally wrapped in the thickest layers of skin – especially over the palms and the soles of feet. Changes in epidermal thickness by age are difficult to measure but varies greatest in older populations. Through all ages, men have thicker skin than women. In clinical studies, men’s skin has demonstrated a gradual thinning with advancing age, whereas women’s skin thickness remains more constant until the post menopausal years, after which it also declines. Hormonal patterns could play a significant role – androgens in particular. Interestingly, both sexes exhibit a linear decrease in skin collagen throughout a lifetime. Collagen contributes to skin’s smooth, plump appearance – beauticians are always on the look for ways to boost collagen levels and repair collagen damage. For bodybuilders trying to obtain a hard and grainy appearance, the natural decrease in skin collagen might not be so bad. Once again, collagen seems to play a role in obtaining a hard and grainy look."

http://xbodyconcepts.com/what-is-muscle-maturity/

I think there's too many external variables that play a hand in this. There's muscle memory, but clearly there's something to be said for muscle which has been evident/used/trained consistently over a long period of time. Could well be that the structure changes over time with these 'cross links'. I'm no expert, tbh. I'm just a bro lifter. My problem has always been various states of physique over the years with varying levels of fat/muscle/phases I go through so I must say that it's a shame I haven't noticed these kinds of things. If I trained more consistently over the years I'd have my own body to go on.

[affeman]

[Royalty]

_AJ_   ....a Getbig member who doesn’t really post anymore, once said that there was no such thing as “density”. Density didn’t exist in a physique.

He said it’s either: fat or muscle tissue or fluid (or a lack there of)

[TRIX]

Most likely thinner skin from getting old

[ROBOAK]

_AJ_   ....a Getbig member who doesn’t really post anymore, once said that there was no such thing as “density”. Density didn’t exist in a physique.

He said it’s either: fat or muscle tissue or fluid (or a lack there of)

he was a twink...

[Titus Pullo]

An interesting argument!

It's just water - intra - flotsam - fatsam...


When guys start juicing, they want to be as big as possible and as quick as possible. So what do they take? Dbol. Test. Deca.
Then they get bloated, get tired of being bloated and not seeing cuts, start getting gyno and freaking out ("wah omg my nipples look 1% bigger!! I have a tiny lump I can feel!!" ), want to lose the bloat and excess estrogen, want to harden up... so they drop the dbol... jump on anavar, prov, masteron, eq, tren, primo...

and then guess what happens?

They dry up + harden up = their muscles look denser.

Yeah.

I can totally see that.  Attributing "maturity" or "density" to age and training style seems to be a false cause fallacy; genetics, the drugs used and *how* they were used seems much more relevant to the overall look. 

 

[NoPEDsNoBB]

Re: Women “aren’t fucking idiots.”

Apparently some are so idiotic that they literally drop dead from following their idiotic coaches’ recommendations.

That doesn't mean they're stupid. They trusted a professional with their health.. shit happens/happened.
They're followers and they lack a bit of common sense.. but they're not stupid.
All the ones who I intially thought were stupid airheads were actually smart, pretending to be stupid airheads for reasons unknown.
I am yet to come across a Jason Genova-like female irl or online.

[NoPEDsNoBB]

_AJ_   ....a Getbig member who doesn’t really post anymore, once said that there was no such thing as “density”. Density didn’t exist in a physique.

He said it’s either: fat or muscle tissue or fluid (or a lack there of)

That's exactly what I've been tryng to say.

""Muscle Maturity" is bullshit. There's no such thing"

It's just water - intra - flotsam - fatsam...

[NoPEDsNoBB]

I think it's genetics.

Who knows.

I know my muscle density never changed regardless of my strength.

If anything, i'm denser now and i train with light weights for volume.

My legs are dense as fuck, and i'm training with half the weight i used to 10 years ago.

I think it's fat and water.

[Humble Narcissist]

_AJ_   ....a Getbig member who doesn’t really post anymore, once said that there was no such thing as “density”. Density didn’t exist in a physique.

He said it’s either: fat or muscle tissue or fluid (or a lack there of)

Didn't GH15 say the same thing?

[Royalty]

Didn't GH15 say the same thing?

I’m not sure. I don’t remember