Author Topic: Mountain pec tear  (Read 2414 times)

Hulkotron

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Mountain pec tear
« on: April 20, 2023, 01:40:29 PM »
Maybe this is old news, happened a few days ago:



How does he plan on setting a world record if his bench is only ~556?  Does he squat and dead over 1000 lbs?

Fortress

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2023, 02:32:13 PM »
With a bench tipping over into the sixes, and a squat and dead sitting around a grand, he’d be there, but I think this tear will permanently deep-six the plan.

TheShape.

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2023, 02:44:21 PM »
Ouch, that was audible unless it was added in later.

Hulkotron

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2023, 02:54:03 PM »
His squats in this video look very shallow to me.

Fortress

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2023, 04:29:21 PM »
His squats in this video look very shallow to me.

His first two attempts in the meet were good, but then on his third he was noticeably a couple inches higher. Got three reds.

The Scott

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2023, 04:34:16 PM »
Does anyone else wonder if these guys get too strong too fast for their tendons with all the stuff they take?  I always went pretty light for reps except when I tried "Dinosaur Training" and even then what was heavy for me was probably light for WSM and top bodybuilders/power lifters.

thebrink

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2023, 09:04:27 PM »
Does anyone else wonder if these guys get too strong too fast for their tendons with all the stuff they take?  I always went pretty light for reps except when I tried "Dinosaur Training" and even then what was heavy for me was probably light for WSM and top bodybuilders/power lifters.

I think he's a naturally skinny guy, very tall but not husky. He really doesn't have the frame for a bench in the 600s imho.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2023, 12:50:41 AM »
Does anyone else wonder if these guys get too strong too fast for their tendons with all the stuff they take?  I always went pretty light for reps except when I tried "Dinosaur Training" and even then what was heavy for me was probably light for WSM and top bodybuilders/power lifters.

Steroids increase the likelihood of tears through a few mechanisms, I think. Regardless of the mechanism there will always be a point where the structures fail. One fairly common tear in regular folks is bicep tears which usually happens outside the gym. I had a thought in my head for a couple of decades, "don't blow a bicep, mind how you lift and load the bicep" but still I blew a bicep a year ago lifting a welding machine. First doctor I saw came in and said "it's the steroids!" and discouraged me from getting surgery. But I insisted and so far it seems to have worked out very well.

It's doesn't always happen on heavy singles either, there's always freak injuries on high rep sets, like I've seen on those football tryouts in the US, whatever it's called, where guys have blown pecs with 225 where they could do 20 plus reps.

I have to laugh at retards on IG commenting on Thor's injury.
"He should train with 12-15 reps, it's just as good for strength," "why does he max out? He's already strong."

Powerlifters have many times come back from nasty tears to set new PRs and records. A few guys have blown out both quad tendons only to come back and set new ATWR's. So it's not necessarily over for Thor, depends on how the tear is and if he has the will to come back and do the crazy amount of work/rehab.

I think he's a naturally skinny guy, very tall but not husky. He really doesn't have the frame for a bench in the 600s imho.

I haven't analyzed his frame but I think he must have an abnormally "husky" build with thick joints. How would anyone dead 1K otherwise? Now Eddie Hall has a hysky frame Lol. Crazy wide waist and big everything (naturally, genetically).

Raymondo

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2023, 02:30:48 AM »
"don't blow a bicep, mind how you lift and load the bicep" but still I blew a bicep a year ago lifting a welding machine.

Is there anything you could have done to prevent it?

Kwon

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2023, 03:53:22 AM »
Is there anything you could have done to prevent it?

Not lifting a Welding Machine.
Q

Hulkotron

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2023, 04:05:50 AM »
I have to laugh at retards on IG commenting on Thor's injury.
"He should train with 12-15 reps, it's just as good for strength," "why does he max out? He's already strong."

It’s generally true (supported by many studies in the strength and conditioning literature) that you can build mass and strength with any rep range.  “Volume” (reps x sets x weight) seems to be the key. 

HOWEVER there is a huge “neural” component to strength that a lot of people who don’t powerlift underestimate.  I think that’s why it’s important to do low-rep sets if your goal is to lift a heavy single in the near future.  Sets of 12-15 or whatever will build muscle just as effectively as doing a bunch of heavy doubles and triples, but won’t train you to fully activate your muscles like the heavy stuff will.

IroNat

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2023, 04:42:09 AM »
Does anyone else wonder if these guys get too strong too fast for their tendons with all the stuff they take?  I always went pretty light for reps except when I tried "Dinosaur Training" and even then what was heavy for me was probably light for WSM and top bodybuilders/power lifters.

Absolutely this is why there are so many pec and bicep tears nowadays.


Fortress

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2023, 02:47:53 PM »
It’s generally true (supported by many studies in the strength and conditioning literature) that you can build mass and strength with any rep range.  “Volume” (reps x sets x weight) seems to be the key. 

HOWEVER there is a huge “neural” component to strength that a lot of people who don’t powerlift underestimate.  I think that’s why it’s important to do low-rep sets if your goal is to lift a heavy single in the near future.  Sets of 12-15 or whatever will build muscle just as effectively as doing a bunch of heavy doubles and triples, but won’t train you to fully activate your muscles like the heavy stuff will.

Precisely.

Training with VERY heavy loads for few repetitions (and singles, too) develops the neuromuscular system to engage a maximal muscular force against resistance.

To fire white fibre extraordinarily intensely.

The nervous system of an elite powerlifter, for instance, is profoundly more advanced and efficient than that of the average bodybuilder.

Very often huge bodybuilders cannot display the strength that would correlate with their muscle mass for precisely this reason.

The underdeveloped nervous system, coupled with multiple muscle groups not trained to work in concert (too much isolation/single-joint exercises), results in an inferior maximal strength output than the huge muscles would otherwise indicate.

Put it this way. No matter the horsepower of an engine, if the fuel cannot optimally enter and combustion can’t happen at a fast enough pace, the horsepower won’t be utilized to its full capacity.

Same thing. Basically.

Strength athletes HAVE to train with very low reps and extremely high intensity to develop that explosive ability.

Then there is the psychological component …

I’m simplifying all this, but you get the picture.


Van_Bilderass

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2023, 03:17:16 PM »
Is there anything you could have done to prevent it?

Not lifted with a supinated hand. You know how they always blow the bicep on the supinated hand in the deadlift. Also my supinated hand is my right and I blew the left one, so that bicep is not used to loading either. The right is used to extreme loading, over 660lbs in the deadlift weekly over 15 years - might not have happened if I used my right arm, hard to know.
Having had many serious tears over the years I was always paranoid about this exact injury but still I messed up. Bur I was kind of lucky that I could convince the docs to operate on me, it's not a given in this country.

dunkin donuts

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2023, 03:19:20 PM »
Didnt watch bcs it's not interesting. Nevertheless, it's good to hear that stroke face is on his way out

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2023, 03:46:15 PM »
It’s generally true (supported by many studies in the strength and conditioning literature) that you can build mass and strength with any rep range.  “Volume” (reps x sets x weight) seems to be the key. 



What the experts on my feeds say is that a 30 rep set will have the same effect on hypertrophy as a set of say 6-8 as long as both are done to failure. The volume debate hasn't been settled yet lol. Some say tension is the main factor whereas some say volume. I'm in the tension camp. Basically I believe one main set per exercise pretty much always is enough.

But powerlifting requires sport specific training, like everything else. Doing only 30 rep sets wouldn't do it imo. You want to become good at singles you should do singles, at least some. I think mostly everyone in the sport agrees with this, well there might be some who believe in mostly doubles and triples in training, or at least not going to absolute max ("never miss a rep in training").

Stephano

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2023, 03:49:17 PM »
Precisely.

Training with VERY heavy loads for few repetitions (and singles, too) develops the neuromuscular system to engage a maximal muscular force against resistance.

To fire white fibre extraordinarily intensely.

The nervous system of an elite powerlifter, for instance, is profoundly more advanced and efficient than that of the average bodybuilder.

Very often huge bodybuilders cannot display the strength that would correlate with their muscle mass for precisely this reason.

The underdeveloped nervous system, coupled with multiple muscle groups not trained to work in concert (too much isolation/single-joint exercises), results in an inferior maximal strength output than the huge muscles would otherwise indicate.

Put it this way. No matter the horsepower of an engine, if the fuel cannot optimally enter and combustion can’t happen at a fast enough pace, the horsepower won’t be utilized to its full capacity.

Same thing. Basically.

Strength athletes HAVE to train with very low reps and extremely high intensity to develop that explosive ability.

Then there is the psychological component …

I’m simplifying all this, but you get the picture.

This is a quality post and it's 100% true.

Thin Lizzy

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2023, 05:20:43 PM »
I believe the reason bodybuilders tend to have better muscular development than powerlifters is that the latter is trying to lift the weight by any means necessary, and as a result recruits fibers from several muscle groups. Squats involve a lot of lower back muscle. Whereas a bodybuilder might be using less weight but is recruiting more quad fibers.

Hulkotron

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2023, 05:55:22 AM »
What the experts on my feeds say is that a 30 rep set will have the same effect on hypertrophy as a set of say 6-8 as long as both are done to failure. The volume debate hasn't been settled yet lol. Some say tension is the main factor whereas some say volume. I'm in the tension camp. Basically I believe one main set per exercise pretty much always is enough.

I’m not talking about bro-science debates on instagram.  In the scientific literature it is fairly clear that volume is the key variable for hypertrophy.

TheGrinch

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2023, 07:29:15 AM »

thebrink

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2023, 09:56:10 AM »
Steroids increase the likelihood of tears through a few mechanisms, I think. Regardless of the mechanism there will always be a point where the structures fail. One fairly common tear in regular folks is bicep tears which usually happens outside the gym. I had a thought in my head for a couple of decades, "don't blow a bicep, mind how you lift and load the bicep" but still I blew a bicep a year ago lifting a welding machine. First doctor I saw came in and said "it's the steroids!" and discouraged me from getting surgery. But I insisted and so far it seems to have worked out very well.

It's doesn't always happen on heavy singles either, there's always freak injuries on high rep sets, like I've seen on those football tryouts in the US, whatever it's called, where guys have blown pecs with 225 where they could do 20 plus reps.

I have to laugh at retards on IG commenting on Thor's injury.
"He should train with 12-15 reps, it's just as good for strength," "why does he max out? He's already strong."

Powerlifters have many times come back from nasty tears to set new PRs and records. A few guys have blown out both quad tendons only to come back and set new ATWR's. So it's not necessarily over for Thor, depends on how the tear is and if he has the will to come back and do the crazy amount of work/rehab.

I haven't analyzed his frame but I think he must have an abnormally "husky" build with thick joints. How would anyone dead 1K otherwise? Now Eddie Hall has a hysky frame Lol. Crazy wide waist and big everything (naturally, genetically).

Watch the video of Thor arm wrestling Devon larratt. He's just a tall awkward skinny kid. 

Bevo

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2023, 10:31:46 AM »


Pretty light in the posing thong area

Irongrip400

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2023, 10:34:08 AM »
Not lifted with a supinated hand. You know how they always blow the bicep on the supinated hand in the deadlift. Also my supinated hand is my right and I blew the left one, so that bicep is not used to loading either. The right is used to extreme loading, over 660lbs in the deadlift weekly over 15 years - might not have happened if I used my right arm, hard to know.
Having had many serious tears over the years I was always paranoid about this exact injury but still I messed up. Bur I was kind of lucky that I could convince the docs to operate on me, it's not a given in this country.


A guy that works for me has torn both biceps at work doing things that he normally does. Once was lifting a trailer ramp and the other was getting out of a machine and he slipped while holding onto the grab bar of the cab.

dunkin donuts

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2023, 03:00:55 PM »
Pretty light in the posing thong area

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Mountain pec tear
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2023, 03:51:46 PM »
I’m not talking about bro-science debates on instagram.  In the scientific literature it is fairly clear that volume is the key variable for hypertrophy.

I'm not talking about what are commonly called "bro scientists." Would you say Lyle McDonald is a bro scientist? Then you have "experts" like Mike Israetel who believe in volume over "intensity."

The "science" says "mechanical tension" is the trigger for muscle growth and you get full recruitment and mechanical tension the last few reps of a set. What some argue is how close to failure you need to go to elicit the best response. Some people think you should basically always keep "reps in reserve." Lyle was funny when he attacked Mike Israetel saying Mike has never once done a set to failure, at least not in any of his videos lol. They argue whether mechanical tension is the main driver for muscle growth, or is it volume, both types cite research. I don't recall what Schoenfeld thinks but I know he hasn't done a set to failure even once in his life lol.

In my observation I, at this point, think that if you do a set to true failure another set of the same exercise rarely makes you grow faster but there is always bias (my personal bias).

Another aegued point if how often should a muscle be trained for the fastest growth. Some type of logic would say "as often as possible while gaining strength." But there is some data indicating training a muscle more often than once a week doesn't hasten muscle growth. I'm inclined to agree based on personal experience plus watching others. Anyone on this forum try prioritising one muscle for a period of time with more frequent training? Did it work?

Lyle's argument starts like this:
Quote
Ok, so in Muscular Tension Part 1 I looked at the topic of muscular tension in overview.  What it is, what it represents and why it is important (i.e. as the primary initiator) in terms of muscle growth.  This had to do with high-tension skeletal muscle contractions activating mechanosensors which turned on the protein synthesis pathway via mTOR .

This requires two factors which are recruiting the fibers and then exposing them to some (currently uknown) number of contractions to activate the mTOR pathway via mechanosensors.

This can occur in a number of ways including lifting heavy weights (80-85% of max or higher) which recruit all fibers from repetition 1 or by lifting lighter weights near or to failure.  Both may end up achieving the same or a similar number of high tension repetitions.   



Mechanical tension is key and he believes if you don't add weight to the bar periodically no amount of volume makes you bigger. Therefore "overload" is key, not volume.