Author Topic: Sleep meds  (Read 4022 times)

Rambone

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Re: Sleep meds
« Reply #75 on: September 09, 2023, 01:54:02 PM »
I did it and liked it, but just didn't feel like shelling out for the threonate/apigenin each month, so switched to mag glycinate, and still use theanine from micro ingredients.

Same here. Was getting my mag glycinate from Costco and tried without the apigenin or theanine. My sleep quality got worse, so I actually just ordered threonate again today just to try it again. I think one should cycling their magnesium sources to not burn out their receptors and to confuse the brain and body

Grape Ape

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Re: Sleep meds
« Reply #76 on: September 09, 2023, 01:56:14 PM »
Same here. Was getting my mag glycinate from Costco and tried without the apigenin or theanine. Was sleep quality got worse, so I actually just ordered threonate again today just to try it again. I think one should cycling their magnesium sources to not burn out their receptors and to confuse the brain and body

Might be a good idea, because I'm now getting diminishing returns, especailly on the theanine - not getting the cool dreams anymore.
Y

Rambone

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Re: Sleep meds
« Reply #77 on: September 09, 2023, 01:59:22 PM »
Might be a good idea, because I'm now getting diminishing returns, especailly on the theanine - not getting the cool dreams anymore.

Be sure to run a proper PCT afterwards

Moontrane

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Re: Sleep meds
« Reply #78 on: September 09, 2023, 03:24:15 PM »
Curious.

Ambien made me trip my ass off.  I'd take one and be up late -- very late! -- mumbling nonsense about Scooby Doo farting about on my PC, half-convinced that I could reach into my monitor and manipulate windows and icons through the screen. 

I've never used anything illegal apart from "bio-identical hormones," but the Ambien had to be on a par with some kind of hallucinogen.  I told my doctor that fun was fun and all, but I had to get off that shit before I did something really stupid.

The purpose of a sleep aid is to assist in sleeping.  I can take an ambien and get lots of shit done, but that’s not using it right. 

Next time, go to bed right away after taking it.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Sleep meds
« Reply #79 on: September 09, 2023, 04:15:23 PM »
Take a 5mg gummy, actually break it in half,  2.5mg prior to bed, with some magnesium you'll be in a coma bro, you'll wake up rested and recovered.I eat a 5mg gummy

I don't doubt that weed makes you "rested and recovered." There is a million testimonials that say the same so it's clearly "true." But there's a millions of testimonials saying drinking wine at night does the same. The question is what it does to sleep architecture, what it does to the length of sleep stages. Both alcohol and weed have been stdied quite a lot and it's not just positive, often outright negative. There's this Dr named Sanjay Gupta, he does documentaries and does ccommentary for CNN, I guess he's a liberal lol. But he said that 10 years ago he did a documentary about weed and from his research he thought weed had very little going for it as far as legitimate uses. Now he did a sort of follow up documentary and now he is of the opinion that it has a number of legitimate uses, one being as as a "sleeping drug" for the elderly. He is so positive of the positive uses that he would actually recommend it for sleep to his elderly parents. I think that's a good measure of how you view certain substances, if you'd be comfortable giving it to someone you really care about. At the same time there's all this data on how it's not as good as "normal" sleep. Better than Ambien maybe for example but still with some negatives.

Have you noticed an effect on dreaming (lack of)? It's very commonly reported by weed lovers. To me that sounds like it could bad. My brother reports it and he's been smoking since 13, 45 now. He says the dreams he has after taking a break are very scary though it normalises after a while. When using heavily he says it will eventually cause negative, self critical thoughts. His son who is 19 told me the same the other day.

I almost only smoke late at night, like when I get home from lifting at midnight. Very nice. A few heavy hits in the morning or early in the day can be very uncomfortable, I get the paranoiac thoughts, don't want to go out in public, a sort of agoraphobia in mass gatherings and so on. A feeling of drowning, anxiety,  I don't know how else to describe it.

I bought the Magnesium L-Threonate and also gave 3 nights worth to my mom. Neither of us could say it did anything noticeable, at least not acutely/immediately. She can get zopiclone to use for a few days a month only, she has tried amitriptyline and now is trialing the mirtazapine. The zopiclone will always work to put her to sleep but she's taken a few falls the last few years, once damaging her teeth falling due to a hole in the concrete. Falls is a well known side effect of the z-drugs and benzos. She also claims just a quarter of a 5mg pill is enough to help sleep. The most surprising positive side effect from the amitriptyline, aside from promoting sleep is her 15 year problem of productive cough disappearing overnight,  but u fortunately it only lasted 3 months. I had suggested she ask her doc about it, to use for cough, after reading about uncommon treatments, and he scripted her immediately and it was like a miracle, at first. Mirtazapine works to a degree for sleep but she doesn't like how it makes her hungry for sweets (a common side effect).

Next I'll have her try glycine, perhaps theanine too, and maybe GABA. She's against weed as it's illegal and doesn't want anything that might make her feel "high." I've never seen "gummies" her nor any weed infused pastries etc. Anyone have an opinion on these HHC, or O-HHC or Delta9 or whatever they're called. I think bhank said the delta9 was pretty much like regular weed lol.

deadz

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Re: Sleep meds
« Reply #80 on: September 09, 2023, 05:11:56 PM »
Might be a good idea, because I'm now getting diminishing returns, especailly on the theanine - not getting the cool dreams anymore.
Seems like all sleep meds fad in efficacy over time. Enjoying my natural sleep again.
T

The Keto Kid

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Re: Sleep meds
« Reply #81 on: September 09, 2023, 05:28:34 PM »
I don't doubt that weed makes you "rested and recovered." There is a million testimonials that say the same so it's clearly "true." But there's a millions of testimonials saying drinking wine at night does the same. The question is what it does to sleep architecture, what it does to the length of sleep stages. Both alcohol and weed have been stdied quite a lot and it's not just positive, often outright negative. There's this Dr named Sanjay Gupta, he does documentaries and does ccommentary for CNN, I guess he's a liberal lol. But he said that 10 years ago he did a documentary about weed and from his research he thought weed had very little going for it as far as legitimate uses. Now he did a sort of follow up documentary and now he is of the opinion that it has a number of legitimate uses, one being as as a "sleeping drug" for the elderly. He is so positive of the positive uses that he would actually recommend it for sleep to his elderly parents. I think that's a good measure of how you view certain substances, if you'd be comfortable giving it to someone you really care about. At the same time there's all this data on how it's not as good as "normal" sleep. Better than Ambien maybe for example but still with some negatives.

Have you noticed an effect on dreaming (lack of)? It's very commonly reported by weed lovers. To me that sounds like it could bad. My brother reports it and he's been smoking since 13, 45 now. He says the dreams he has after taking a break are very scary though it normalises after a while. When using heavily he says it will eventually cause negative, self critical thoughts. His son who is 19 told me the same the other day.

I almost only smoke late at night, like when I get home from lifting at midnight. Very nice. A few heavy hits in the morning or early in the day can be very uncomfortable, I get the paranoiac thoughts, don't want to go out in public, a sort of agoraphobia in mass gatherings and so on. A feeling of drowning, anxiety,  I don't know how else to describe it.

I bought the Magnesium L-Threonate and also gave 3 nights worth to my mom. Neither of us could say it did anything noticeable, at least not acutely/immediately. She can get zopiclone to use for a few days a month only, she has tried amitriptyline and now is trialing the mirtazapine. The zopiclone will always work to put her to sleep but she's taken a few falls the last few years, once damaging her teeth falling due to a hole in the concrete. Falls is a well known side effect of the z-drugs and benzos. She also claims just a quarter of a 5mg pill is enough to help sleep. The most surprising positive side effect from the amitriptyline, aside from promoting sleep is her 15 year problem of productive cough disappearing overnight,  but u fortunately it only lasted 3 months. I had suggested she ask her doc about it, to use for cough, after reading about uncommon treatments, and he scripted her immediately and it was like a miracle, at first. Mirtazapine works to a degree for sleep but she doesn't like how it makes her hungry for sweets (a common side effect).

Next I'll have her try glycine, perhaps theanine too, and maybe GABA. She's against weed as it's illegal and doesn't want anything that might make her feel "high." I've never seen "gummies" her nor any weed infused pastries etc. Anyone have an opinion on these HHC, or O-HHC or Delta9 or whatever they're called. I think bhank said the delta9 was pretty much like regular weed lol.
My dreams are absolutely epic to be honest, I'm all about optimization, living my best life, having the best quality of life. I've seen nothing but improvement since I've started Marijuana for sleep, I never use it any other time of the day, I treat it like a PED. I don't know many adults that get 8 hours of sleep, most adults I know get like 5-6. The magnesium you got to use is magnesium bisglycinate. And I track my sleep, pic below.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Sleep meds
« Reply #82 on: September 09, 2023, 05:38:24 PM »
My dreams are absolutely epic to be honest, I'm all about optimization, living my best life, having the best quality of life. I've seen nothing but improvement since I've started Marijuana for sleep, I never use it any other time of the day, I treat it like a PED. I don't know many adults that get 8 hours of sleep, most adults I know get like 5-6. The magnesium you got to use is magnesium bisglycinate. And I track my sleep, pic below.

Alright, sounds good. Huberman recommends bisglycinate or threonate for sleep but I think he favored threonate. But it's expensive so many go with the glycinate. I've used it too. Some say malate is best, others favor taurinate.

The Keto Kid

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Re: Sleep meds
« Reply #83 on: September 09, 2023, 05:40:14 PM »
Alright, sounds good. Huberman recommends bisglycinate or threonate for sleep but I think he favored threonate. But it's expensive so many go with the glycinate. I've used it too. Some say malate is best, others favor taurinate.
I believe magnesium bisglycinate has the best absorption of them all.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Sleep meds
« Reply #84 on: September 09, 2023, 06:41:22 PM »
I believe magnesium bisglycinate has the best absorption of them all.

Maybe. But the main selling point for threonate is that it's the only one shown to cross the blood-brain barrier, hence being the best for sleep, theoretically.

Then there's stuff like this, with supposedly even better absorption:

https://nootropicsdepot.com/micromag-capsules-optimized-magnesium/

Threonate has claims like this:

"Magtein is the only magnesium compound that has been shown to effectively raise the brain's magnesium levels, which leads to enhanced learning abilities, improved working memory, and better short and long-term memory in both young and aged animals.*"

The Keto Kid

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Re: Sleep meds
« Reply #85 on: September 09, 2023, 06:52:17 PM »
Maybe. But the main selling point for threonate is that it's the only one shown to cross the blood-brain barrier, hence being the best for sleep, theoretically.

Then there's stuff like this, with supposedly even better absorption:

https://nootropicsdepot.com/micromag-capsules-optimized-magnesium/

Threonate has claims like this:

"Magtein is the only magnesium compound that has been shown to effectively raise the brain's magnesium levels, which leads to enhanced learning abilities, improved working memory, and better short and long-term memory in both young and aged animals.*"

Interesting

pkaz

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Re: Sleep meds
« Reply #86 on: September 09, 2023, 08:05:42 PM »
Ok, as noted on some current and past threads quite a few of our members are using things to help them sleep.   Either RX or OTC.  I have never had that problem so just curious as to why some of you may be suffering from insomnia.  Is it due to other RX side effects keeping you awake, pain issues, job/family stress, or just having an unbreakable night owl lifestyle?  What have you tried that worked or didn't work?

I really have no issues falling asleep and often take an hour nap most days of the week.  I do have Ambien here, but that is what I bought overseas many years ago and only use it for when I am doing a travel gig and need to sleep on the plane.  I bought 100 tabs in 2009 (I believe) for $12 and still have about 40 left.  I only use 1/2 tab each time. 

I have read that most sleep aids OTC often leave you dragging the next day.

I have three nice drinks of Amarreta and 1800 silver tequila mixed together. Sleep like a baby.

Rambone

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Re: Sleep meds
« Reply #87 on: September 09, 2023, 08:11:52 PM »
I have three nice drinks of Amarreta and 1800 silver tequila mixed together. Sleep like a baby.

Alcohol is terrible for sleep quality. I drink my 12 year old scotch before bed every night nonetheless

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Sleep meds
« Reply #88 on: September 10, 2023, 06:32:27 PM »
Curious.

Ambien made me trip my ass off.  I'd take one and be up late -- very late! -- mumbling nonsense about Scooby Doo farting about on my PC, half-convinced that I could reach into my monitor and manipulate windows and icons through the screen. 

I've never used anything illegal apart from "bio-identical hormones," but the Ambien had to be on a par with some kind of hallucinogen.  I told my doctor that fun was fun and all, but I had to get off that shit before I did something really stupid.

Never had that happen. But I only take it on planes.  And a mild dose at that.  Now that being said I know someone that drinks 3-4 martinis every single day and takes his ambien at 9pm and I have seen some wild ass posts from his FB account at time about midnight or so.  So it is possible.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Sleep meds
« Reply #89 on: September 11, 2023, 05:04:28 PM »
Never had that happen. But I only take it on planes.  And a mild dose at that.  Now that being said I know someone that drinks 3-4 martinis every single day and takes his ambien at 9pm and I have seen some wild ass posts from his FB account at time about midnight or so.  So it is possible.

It's not just possible, it's especially likely when combined with alcohol. I've said before how they stopped giving hospital patients Ambien here due to bizarre next day behavior. Zopiclon is the substitute here, same z-drug class but not as many "incidents." Zopiclone can do it too though. My mother never drinks but once on vacation her girl friend wanted to split a single can of beer. She took her sleep med and next morning there was instant coffee spread out on the table in weird patterns lol. What scared me was once when I woke up in the morning I found unopened take-out on the kitchen table, zero memory of it, but I had been out driving zonked out, hardly safe. Ambien has been used as an excuse for rapes in court. The rapist claimed to remember nothing.

But if it works, no problem. I might even take it myself but I wouldn't stay up waiting for it to kick in. The sending of bizarre and embarrassing texts to everyone is a classic with these drugs, heard it many times. The bad part is that Ambien can be so pleasant to play with the computer or phone on. The visual field can sort of start floating and any anxiety disappears. Appetite can increase as well.

These are not benzos yet they are in a way because they target the same receptors. Because they are not "strictly" benzos they are much easier to get a script for (in some places). Kind of like Ritalin can be easier to get than the scary and much maligned "amphetamine."

Gym Rat

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Re: Sleep meds
« Reply #90 on: September 12, 2023, 04:37:52 AM »
Added this stuff (just to try) along w/ my 5 mg THC gummy.
Pretty vivid dreams and an easy 8  hours knocked out cold...

https://www.rejuvia.co/products/sleep-spray