Author Topic: Thoughts on appeal?  (Read 2668 times)

joswift

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2023, 09:00:08 AM »

Dave D

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2023, 10:17:47 AM »

joswift

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2023, 01:43:27 PM »
Summary of the "evidence"
There was no direct evidence presented in Lucy Letby’s trial for these murders or attempted murders, for which she has been found guilty and sentenced to a whole life sentence.   In a case relying on indirect or circumstantial evidence, then the evidence should be overwhelming.  It’s been reported as overwhelming in the media.   So what is it?

•    For each of these little babies who died, post-mortems were carried out afterwards. These post-mortems were set aside during the trial, and replaced with the views of two experts, with fresh conclusions being reached in the cause of death.    Such as, Dr Evans, an expert witness and retired Consultant Paediatrician who said that injected air causing air embolisms was the cause of death.  Dr Evans said the research on air embolisms was extremely limited but cited one study from 1989 showing that in the sample of 53 babies, that 11% had skin changes and in one, there was pink showing.  This study was extrapolated to the deaths as skin mottling was present in some of the victims.  The jury were asked by Mr Justice James Goss when summing up to consider that Dr Evan’s conclusions as reliable.

•    Messages found in Letby’s diary included ‘I am evil’ l and ‘I did this’.The conclusion that she was ‘evil’ and ‘she did this’ was taken as both literal and true.   Interpretations such as Letby was guilt-tripping or God-complex grandiosing or self-pitying or delusional were put aside.  She also sent cards and looked up families on Facebook and she also took hospital notes home.   This evidence was given high status in terms of ‘a smoking gun’ in a murder trial providing what seems to be her inner confessions and real ‘self’.  She was charged with murder with these notes showing her state of mind.

•    Hospital doctors say that managers did nothing following their concerns.But the managers did do something.  They ordered three independent reviews when concerns were raised and the conclusions were that it wasn’t Letby or a single person to blame.   When Letby asked for apologies and talked of complaints to the General Medical Council, the consultants decided that enough was enough and the police were involved.  Paediatrician and TV doctor, Dr Ravi Jayaram said that he has nightmares as he saw Letby standing beside a monitor doing nothing to help a baby in breathing difficulties and  not acting in the way one would expect.  He made no record or shared any concerns at the time.

•    Letby was on the ward when the deaths happened suggesting the ‘pattern’ often referred to in the media. Patterns, coincidences and statistical rarities happen and statistically clustering can happen, which can then sometimes understood but can also occur without any cause being established.   It’s possible that hospitals could find a number of such patterns if looking at staff presence at deaths.   Statistical analyses were not carried out for comparison.

When the police were involved by hospital staff, the police report they took an approach which was ‘If not her (Letby) then who or what?’.   Following three years of gathering the above evidence, they charged Letby.   The trial took place over 10 months, grouping all the charges involving 145 days of witness testimony, 246 witnesses and 5,000 pieces of evidence and it was in this setting that Letby failed to come up with a defence.


Goliathon

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2023, 01:47:00 PM »
She was a nurse working with mostly premature babies, shes been found guily of murder and attempted murder of several of them even there was no conclusive hard evidence, just circumstantial.

It has similarities to the case further down the page where a nurse was convicted then found to be totally innocent

You can tell how gullible people are if they don't think this isn't an all the time thing. My aunt is a malignant narcissist, my mother also a nurse has caught her doing sketchy shit in front of her, can only imagine what happens when no one is looking.

It's a well known thing that so many nurses are hooked on opiates. It's just part of the business where nurses will be swiping patients pills, giving them heavy sleeping pills instead of pain pills etc.





Skeletor

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2023, 01:56:24 PM »

joswift

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2023, 01:57:53 PM »
You can tell how gullible people are if they don't think this isn't an all the time thing. My aunt is a malignant narcissist, my mother also a nurse has caught her doing sketchy shit in front of her, can only imagine what happens when no one is looking.

It's a well known thing that so many nurses are hooked on opiates. It's just part of the business where nurses will be swiping patients pills, giving them heavy sleeping pills instead of pain pills etc.

If you look at the evidence above she never stood a chance at this trial.

It was only after she demanded an apology from her managers that they contacted the police

Quote
Hospital doctors say that managers did nothing following their concerns.But the managers did do something.  They ordered three independent reviews when concerns were raised and the conclusions were that it wasn’t Letby or a single person to blame.   When Letby asked for apologies and talked of complaints to the General Medical Council, the consultants decided that enough was enough and the police were involved.

balsac69

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2023, 03:16:40 PM »

Raymondo

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2023, 05:10:25 PM »
thats in civil court

Criminal court is "beyond a reasonable doubt"

My bad

The Scott

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2023, 05:50:32 PM »


He's doing his best "Marlon Brando" there.

Vince G, CSN MFT

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Skeletor

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2023, 07:49:26 PM »
She has nothing to lose

In your experience as a prison guard, how would she be treated in prison?

joswift

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2023, 06:41:13 AM »
In your experience as a prison guard, how would she be treated in prison?
Pretty much isolation initially, other women tend not to like women who are convicted of harming children

Then again Myra Hindley (Moors Murders) had lesbian relationships whilst in prison

SweetDaddySiki

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2023, 12:50:38 PM »
I think she's innocent. Plus, I think she's cute.  :D 

joswift

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2023, 12:55:55 PM »
I think she's innocent. Plus, I think she's cute.  :D


Raymondo

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2023, 02:53:13 PM »
I think she's innocent. Plus, I think she's cute.  :D

She is what they said at the trial. Completely average.

I think she is plain looking. Doesn't stand out. Wouldn't remember her face after a night oput.
 
No idea why she did it and no solid motive found during the trial either . The closest they got is that she wanted to get the attention of a doctor  :(

joswift

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2023, 03:02:40 PM »
She is what they said at the trial. Completely average.

I think she is plain looking. Doesn't stand out. Wouldn't remember her face after a night oput.
 
No idea why she did it and no solid motive found during the trial either . The closest they got is that she wanted to get the attention of a doctor  :(

You think she should have been convicted after seeing how flimsy the case was?

Raymondo

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2023, 04:10:39 PM »
You think she should have been convicted after seeing how flimsy the case was?

Haven't really looked into it in any detail... what is the source of your "Summary of evidence" post above?

joswift

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2023, 01:00:23 AM »
Haven't really looked into it in any detail... what is the source of your "Summary of evidence" post above?
https://thinkscotland.org/2023/08/was-the-evidence-against-lucy-letby-really-overwhelming/

Dalnet

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2023, 01:41:12 AM »
https://dutchreview.com/culture/lucia-de-berk-dutch-nurse-wrongfully-imprisoned-6-years/#:~:text=CultureHistorySociety-,Lucia%20de%20Berk%3A%20the%20Dutch%20nurse%20who,wrongfully%20imprisoned%20for%20six%20years&text=Lucia%20de%20Berk%2C%20better%20known,was%20all%20a%20big%20mistake.

I heard about that case because of looking up this one. This Letby case... There's definitely some that doubt the evidence. Such as they say the death rate dropped when she left but it turns out that's because they downgraded the rating for severity for the ward so they moved more seriously ill babies to another hospital. Of course cases will drop if they see only healthier babies.

I don't know enough about this case but she definitely is an oddball taking home 250 pieces of paperwork that's not even supposed to be off hospital grounds and is illegal for a nurse to do due to confidentiality etc. Also looking up parents of the babies of multiple families. Very oddball.

joswift

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2023, 05:32:00 AM »
I heard about that case because of looking up this one. This Letby case... There's definitely some that doubt the evidence. Such as they say the death rate dropped when she left but it turns out that's because they downgraded the rating for severity for the ward so they moved more seriously ill babies to another hospital. Of course cases will drop if they see only healthier babies.

I don't know enough about this case but she definitely is an oddball taking home 250 pieces of paperwork that's not even supposed to be off hospital grounds and is illegal for a nurse to do due to confidentiality etc. Also looking up parents of the babies of multiple families. Very oddball.

Fucks sake people on here do that all the time, as soon as someone posts some shit there are people trawling the web looking for details about them.

Maybe it is oddball behaviour , if that true there are a lot of oddballs around.

People collect Garden Gnomes, maybe she liked collecting old documents

There wasnt anything at that trial would have convinced me to vote guilty
It was judged on emotion not facts

Suppose it had been mice in a lab that died and not babies on a ward?

Should she have gone to jail for the rest of her life?

They judged her on the victims, not the act.

CalvinH

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2023, 08:17:30 AM »
Dead behind the eyes..



"1"


I would say also in front.

falco

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2023, 08:40:36 AM »
How can someone hurt babies? It just doesn't compute.

joswift

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Re: Thoughts on appeal?
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2023, 08:41:50 AM »
How can someone hurt babies? It just doesn't compute.
Ask the American soldiers at My Lai
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre