STAY AWAY: 5 ways the Healthcare System WILL Screw You Over

[IroNat]

[dj181]

like andy tate says.... THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU in fact he says no one cares about so take it like a fucking man

[oldtimer1]

That's the way I feel about statins. They lower cholesterol drastically but do they give you health benefits?  I have some questions. Why do people with low cholesterol get clog type heart attacks? If having low cholesterol was the magic bullet then explain this.

I have a guy I worked with that has been on cholesterol statin drugs for well over a decade. Bragged about his cholesterol being in the 160 range. His arteries are are clogging up and he needed a heart artery stent.

When I take statins the day after I lift I can barely move from the soreness. Adding CQ10 does nothing for this. Lifted hard for two weeks and no crippling soreness without the statin. Gong to go on statins again for the fourth time and if that soreness comes back I am done. Had a doctor dismiss my complaints saying he notices nothing with his muscles. I bet he hasn't exercised since he was in high school and if he does he works out like a pussy so no soreness. Rybo can kill your kidneys if it gets bad enough.

[joswift]

That's the way I feel about statins. They lower cholesterol drastically but do they give you health benefits?  I have some questions. Why do people with low cholesterol get clog type heart attacks? If having low cholesterol was the magic bullet then explain this.

I have a guy I worked with that has been on cholesterol statin drugs for well over a decade. Bragged about his cholesterol being in the 160 range. His arteries are are clogging up and he needed a heart artery stent.

When I take statins the day after I lift I can barely move from the soreness. Adding CQ10 does nothing for this. Lifted hard for two weeks and no crippling soreness without the statin. Gong to go on statins again for the fourth time and if that soreness comes back I am done. Had a doctor dismiss my complaints saying he notices nothing with his muscles. I bet he hasn't exercised since he was in high school and if he does he works out like a pussy so no soreness. Rybo can kill your kidneys if it gets bad enough.

I believe Statins contributed to Ronnie Colemans problems

[Gym Rat]

That's the way I feel about statins. They lower cholesterol drastically but do they give you health benefits?  I have some questions. Why do people with low cholesterol get clog type heart attacks? If having low cholesterol was the magic bullet then explain this.

I have a guy I worked with that has been on cholesterol statin drugs for well over a decade. Bragged about his cholesterol being in the 160 range. His arteries are are clogging up and he needed a heart artery stent.

When I take statins the day after I lift I can barely move from the soreness. Adding CQ10 does nothing for this. Lifted hard for two weeks and no crippling soreness without the statin. Gong to go on statins again for the fourth time and if that soreness comes back I am done. Had a doctor dismiss my complaints saying he notices nothing with his muscles. I bet he hasn't exercised since he was in high school and if he does he works out like a pussy so no soreness. Rybo can kill your kidneys if it gets bad enough.

There are many studies where those with very low total cholesterol, have the most heart attacks. (Its protective).
Many Dr's are against statins... They keep lowering t he total (220 now to 200) just to Rx them to kids, babies, etc.
They want everyone on them for profit. They stole them from the Asians (Red Yeast Rice) used for  a million years in China.
Just more crooked USA bullshit...

Only those with very legit familial issue should be on them. Not people who have a total of "213"... 

[joswift]

There are many studies where those with very low total cholesterol, have the most heart attacks. (Its protective).
Many Dr's are against statins... They keep lowering t he total (220 now to 200) just to Rx them to kids, babies, etc.
They want everyone on them for profit. They stole them from the Asians (Red Yeast Rice) used for  a million years in China.
Just more crooked USA bullshit...

Only those with very legit familial issue should be on them. Not people who have a total of "213"... 

cholesterol is vital for the brain, it assists in memory formation and retention

Maybe why dementia has risen along with the introduction of statins

[dj181]

Just more crooked USA bullshit...

BINGO!

[_bruce_]

The neardeath-care system keeps the monies flowing.

[IroNat]

That's the way I feel about statins. They lower cholesterol drastically but do they give you health benefits?  I have some questions. Why do people with low cholesterol get clog type heart attacks? If having low cholesterol was the magic bullet then explain this.

I have a guy I worked with that has been on cholesterol statin drugs for well over a decade. Bragged about his cholesterol being in the 160 range. His arteries are are clogging up and he needed a heart artery stent.

When I take statins the day after I lift I can barely move from the soreness. Adding CQ10 does nothing for this. Lifted hard for two weeks and no crippling soreness without the statin. Gong to go on statins again for the fourth time and if that soreness comes back I am done. Had a doctor dismiss my complaints saying he notices nothing with his muscles. I bet he hasn't exercised since he was in high school and if he does he works out like a pussy so no soreness. Rybo can kill your kidneys if it gets bad enough.

Plenty of info out there on the negative effects of statins.

Why are you on them?

[oldtimer1]

There are many studies where those with very low total cholesterol, have the most heart attacks. (Its protective).
Many Dr's are against statins... They keep lowering t he total (220 now to 200) just to Rx them to kids, babies, etc.
They want everyone on them for profit. They stole them from the Asians (Red Yeast Rice) used for  a million years in China.
Just more crooked USA bullshit...

Only those with very legit familial issue should be on them. Not people who have a total of "213"... 

Use to be a lot higher than 220.  At 200 plus over 60% of the population should be on statins. Who came up with that figure? It was studies paid for by pharmaceutical companies.

[oldtimer1]

Plenty of info out there on the negative effects of statins.

Why are you on them?

High cholesterol. I'm not on them right now but going to try again. I have a genetic defect where my liver makes a ton of it. My brother has the same thing. He became a vegetarian and is one of the leanest people I know. and it The diet did nothing for cholesterol levels.

[Grape Ape]

Plenty of info out there on the negative effects of statins.

Why are you on them?

It is very hard on who to believe on this debate.

I have spoken to cardiologists who are not stupid, have studied statins since inception, and believe in them.  They go deep into studies and speak in real terms.

Then, the online crews like Mark Sisson and other medical doctors make fantastic cases against them.

What leads me to give the latter credibility is the way our healthcare system works, and that most doctors would rather prescribe a pill than go hard on preventative stuff like exercise, food choices, and supplementation.

[oldtimer1]

It is very hard on who to believe on this debate.

I have spoken to cardiologists who are not stupid, have studied statins since inception, and believe in them.  They go deep into studies and speak in real terms.

Then, the online crews like Mark Sisson and other medical doctors make fantastic cases against them.

What leads me to give the latter credibility is the way our healthcare system works, and that most doctors would rather prescribe a pill than go hard on preventative stuff like exercise, food choices, and supplementation.

For many it's genetic and their liver makes too much cholesterol. Look at Clarence Bass. He watches his diet year round like a hawk. He does both lifting and cardio. He is on a statin.  I know a woman 100lbs over weight and her cholesterol is 200.

[Grape Ape]

For many it's genetic and their liver makes too much cholesterol. Look at Clarence Bass. He watches his diet year round like a hawk. He does both lifting and cardio. He is on a statin.  I know a woman 100lbs over weight and her cholesterol is 200.

This is what the cardiologist said - that 80% of your levels are genetic and there's only so much you can move.

[Gym Rat]

High cholesterol. I'm not on them right now but going to try again. I have a genetic defect where my liver makes a ton of it. My brother has the same thing. He became a vegetarian and is one of the leanest people I know. and it The diet did nothing for cholesterol levels.

If your total is very high because of HDL, then no worries. If LDL and Trigs are ridiculous, yes they can help. That stuff can clog the arteries.
My wifes HDL is 80 (twice the recommended 40 or >). All her other levels are in range (LDL, Trigs) Doc suggested statins cause her total is a bit high from the HDL.
Laughable to knock down your HDL to fit into some range. Told her Doc to go stuff tehm in her arse (nicely of course)...

[oldtimer1]

This is what the cardiologist said - that 80% of your levels are genetic and there's only so much you can move.

True but statins make a tremendous difference in levels according to the dose. Statins block your liver from making cholesterol. Does that mean less heart attacks or a longer life is the question? 

[IroNat]

True but statins make a tremendous difference in levels according to the dose. Statins block your liver from making cholesterol. Does that mean less heart attacks or a longer life is the question? 

Is your family history why you are focused on cardio?

[MajorDomo]

Fibrinogen is far more a risk factor than cholesterol or LDL/HDL. They knew this 30 years ago. I suppose in another 50 years people will finally get it.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7584794/

https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA15926298&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=00943509&p=AONE&sw=w&userGroupName=anon%7Ea9c2062&aty=open-web-entry

[Grape Ape]

Fibrinogen is far more a risk factor than cholesterol or LDL/HDL. They knew this 30 years ago. I suppose in another 50 years people will finally get it.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7584794/

https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA15926298&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=00943509&p=AONE&sw=w&userGroupName=anon%7Ea9c2062&aty=open-web-entry

Interesting - got a cliff's notes on this?

[dj181]

Plenty of info out there on the negative effects of statins.

Why are you on them?

this dude is a very very smart guy maybe even smarter than me, so.... FUCK HIM

[GymnJuice]

High cholesterol. I'm not on them right now but going to try again. I have a genetic defect where my liver makes a ton of it. My brother has the same thing. He became a vegetarian and is one of the leanest people I know. and it The diet did nothing for cholesterol levels.

Depending on your cholesterol profile you could try something other than a statin like niacin, gemfibrozil, or fenofibrate. There are also newer injectable drugs that are expensive (PCSK9 inhibitors), but your insurance might not pay for them unless you've had a stent or heart attack.

[Irongrip400]

I was on statins for about two years because my cholesterol was around 300 total and even with diet I could only get to around 240 total. I got on them and had minor pain which I took COQ10 and it seemed to help. Got me down to about 212 total first year at half a crestor. Second year I really got into cardio and it went down to 170 total. I stopped Crestor and the next year it was back up over 200 when I went for my physical. I feel better though off of them and am interested to see what my levels are now that I’ve cleaned up my diet a bit and am still doing heavy cardio.

I’m not sold that cholesterol alone is the problem. My mother is 75 and hers is near 300 and she is fine health wise. My dad is about the same age, and had triple bypass at 60 and was an active dude. I get an executive physical every two years (done it three times now) and so far the heart still looks fine. I’m early 40’s now and will just continue to monitor things.

[ProudVirgin69]

It is very hard on who to believe on this debate.

I have spoken to cardiologists who are not stupid, have studied statins since inception, and believe in them.  They go deep into studies and speak in real terms.

Then, the online crews like Mark Sisson and other medical doctors make fantastic cases against them.

What leads me to give the latter credibility is the way our healthcare system works, and that most doctors would rather prescribe a pill than go hard on preventative stuff like exercise, food choices, and supplementation.

Prescribing guidelines for these medication all state that patient should attempt lifestyle modifications for 6 months before starting statins.  You can probably guess how well that works out for most Americans.  From a harm-reduction standpoint, it’s better to get people on meds earlier than to leave them untreated for another 6 months.  It’s not that physicians don’t understand the benefits of exercise, diet, etc, they’re just realistic about the tendencies of their patients.

I have to chuckle at your dilemma though… on the one side you have real, practicing cardiologists, experts within their field, dealing with this stuff everyday.  On the other side, you have people like Mark Sisson who is apparently a cookbook author and endurance athlete.  Personally, I’d take my medical advice from the actual medical doctors.

[ProudVirgin69]

Fibrinogen is far more a risk factor than cholesterol or LDL/HDL. They knew this 30 years ago. I suppose in another 50 years people will finally get it.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7584794/

https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA15926298&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=00943509&p=AONE&sw=w&userGroupName=anon%7Ea9c2062&aty=open-web-entry

 

This isn’t some arcane secret, it’s a well known risk factor.  I’m not sure why you linked 30 year old research given that it’s actively being studied to this day.  Here, have a meta analysis from 2022:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8745133/#B103-ijms-23-00193

Of note, 30 years later, they’re still unclear on whether or not fibrinogen levels are a marker of cardiovascular disease or a causative risk factor.  In other words, does high fibrinogen directly cause CVD?  Or does the presence of CVD elevate fibrinogen levels?  Intuition tells me it’s causative but that hasn’t been established at this point.

If fibrinogen is a causative factor, it would provide more support for the use of statin drugs, given that they directly reduce fibrinogen plasma levels (as well as the levels of other coagulants in the blood).  This effect is theorized to be the mechanism behind the rate reduction in thrombotic episodes observed in patients taking statins.

[LurkerNoMore]

Question for oldtimer (and others) :

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of statins were you using?  At what dose?  A lot of docs here do suggest the CoQ-10 supplementation but also advise to take the statin at night before bed.

There are a lot of docs and people that feel it is just genetic.  That no matter what you do, you can only suppress it to a degree.  But that doesn't mean it can affect you negatively.  Lots of people are high their whole lives and live to be 80-90. 

There was also a trend about 10 years ago that was popular (but you don't really hear much of it anymore) that it isn't the number that is the most important, it is the particle size.  You can have a high number with small sizes and still be in less of a clog risk than someone with low numbers and bigger size.