Author Topic: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!  (Read 27466 times)

Tre

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #150 on: May 03, 2006, 07:30:14 AM »

I would just like to commend Isaac for his proper use of the term 'schmotograph'.    ;D

Tre

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #151 on: May 03, 2006, 07:41:00 AM »
It is a sign and more evidence the IFBB doesn't care about promoter, fans or its athletes.  For how many months have the IFBB been promoting this show.  I am pretty sure they got the sanction fees.  Almost guaranteed the the promoter could not come up with the prize money and they had to shut it down.  When he couldn't come up with it Manion told him to pull the plug.  No way will the IFBB or Manion ever have to pay.  Didn't they IFBB pass a ruling that the promoter has to have the money in the bank before doing the show.  How can they lose.  They approved the Toronto Pro to show people that they are going to have more shows and not to worry they are strong.

It was my understanding that the full sanctioning fee and 100% of the prize money had to be put into escrow before the license to do the show would be granted.  Obviously, the prize money is returned to the promoter - who should then re-pay his sponsors - in the event of a cancellation, but I do not know what happens to the sanctioning fee. 

Can someone speak on that? 

But Keith, having done huge-scale events, you know firsthand that those amounts don't begin to touch the full upfront costs of doing a show.  You and the other promoters deal with numbers that the average fans here cannot begin to comprehend.  So, it's entirely possible that he came up a little short and had no other cash sources to draw from. 

If the prize amounts are to remain the same, they'll need to find a new business plan in order to trim those tremendous upfront costs.  Another thing these new pro promoters should strongly consider is including an amateur component in their shows.  Ed Pariso has explained the efficacy of this several times, but no one seems to be listening to him despite the growth of his pro event.

an123

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #152 on: May 03, 2006, 08:03:03 AM »
We canadians don't give a shit about professional bodybuilding... Let this be a lesson to you thong wearing greased up muscle freaks... Stop at the border, we don't want ya here  ;D.

sarcasm

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #153 on: May 03, 2006, 08:05:45 AM »
We canadians don't give a shit about professional bodybuilding... Let this be a lesson to you thong wearing greased up muscle freaks... Stop at the border, we don't want ya here  ;D.
translation=my girlfriend loves bodybuilders
Jaejonna rows 125!!

bigdumbbell

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #154 on: May 03, 2006, 08:06:22 AM »
It was my understanding that the full sanctioning fee and 100% of the prize money had to be put into escrow before the license to do the show would be granted.  Obviously, the prize money is returned to the promoter - who should then re-pay his sponsors - in the event of a cancellation, but I do not know what happens to the sanctioning fee. 

Can someone speak on that? 

But Keith, having done huge-scale events, you know firsthand that those amounts don't begin to touch the full upfront costs of doing a show.  You and the other promoters deal with numbers that the average fans here cannot begin to comprehend.  So, it's entirely possible that he came up a little short and had no other cash sources to draw from. 

If the prize amounts are to remain the same, they'll need to find a new business plan in order to trim those tremendous upfront costs.  Another thing these new pro promoters should strongly consider is including an amateur component in their shows.  Ed Pariso has explained the efficacy of this several times, but no one seems to be listening to him despite the growth of his pro event.

yeah like promoting a show washington dc when it's actually going to be manasses, virginia  LOL

an123

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #155 on: May 03, 2006, 08:06:51 AM »
translation=my girlfriend loves bodybuilders

She does?  Must suck to be you.

LuciusFox

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #156 on: May 03, 2006, 08:29:05 AM »
She does?  Must suck to be you.

 Hahahahaha...sarcasm walked right into that one! ;D

Chick

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #157 on: May 03, 2006, 09:52:38 AM »
I want to keep this at the top.  It deserves it.  It is a sign and more evidence the IFBB doesn't care about promoter, fans or its atheltes.  For how many months have the IFBB been promoting this show.  I am pretty sure they got the sanction fees.  Almost guaranteed the the promoter could not come upi with the prize money and they had to shut it down.  When he couldn't come up with it Manion told him to pull the plug.  No way will the IFBB or Manion ever have to pay.  Didn't they IFBB pass a ruling that the promoter has to have the money in the bank befre doing the show.  How can they lose.  They approved the Toronto Pro to show people that they are going to have more shows and not to woryy they are strong.  But it backfired and the Toronto Pro is not the first or last show to cancel this year.  Butno matter what the IFBB and Manion have some responsibility in this because they promoted it and gave it te illusion it was a done show by doing so.  It's going to be harder and harder to support the IFBB when they keep getting worse and worse.


Let me clear up a few points reguarding thr Toronto Pro...

Keith, Please....stop posting on matters youi know nothing about. Seriously, bro...you're making yourself look foolish, and spreading false info due to guessing and being misinformed.

For the record....

No, there will NOT be a refund to Winston for the sanction fee.

Reason: There was never one paid.

The prize money will also not be refunded to Winston as it was never put in escrow as it should have been...

These rules have been enforced to protect the athletes. Canceling the show was a better alternative than the athletes getting screwed, or the show being a disaster. Sponsorship dollars did not come through as planned, by the promoter, and ticket sales were not what they should have been to have a successful show.

This was the EXACT same senario that lead to the Orlando debacle a few years ago...except the show was allowed to go on. Those athletes have YET to be paid from the promoter.

You guys can talk all the shit you want about Manion, etc....at least he's enforcing the rules and protecting the athletes.

Tre

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #158 on: May 03, 2006, 10:53:03 AM »
No, there will NOT be a refund to Winston for the sanction fee.

Reason: There was never one paid.

The prize money will also not be refunded to Winston as it was never put in escrow as it should have been...

What the heck?? 

Without those two cash elements in place, there never was a show...therefore, there was nothing to cancel. 

Those monies need to be in place a minimum of 6 months before the scheduled date of an event. 

But since the event was never sanctioned, then 1) no one should've been preparing for it and 2) no one should've made travel arrangements to attend. 

LuciusFox

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #159 on: May 03, 2006, 10:56:43 AM »
What the heck?? 

Without those two cash elements in place, there never was a show...therefore, there was nothing to cancel. 

Those monies need to be in place a minimum of 6 months before the scheduled date of an event. 

But since the event was never sanctioned, then 1) no one should've been preparing for it and 2) no one should've made travel arrangements to attend. 


  This is pro bodybuilding for you. I actually love its disorganized and sometimes unpredictable nature ;D

onlyme

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #160 on: May 03, 2006, 12:19:24 PM »
What the heck?? 

Without those two cash elements in place, there never was a show...therefore, there was nothing to cancel. 

Those monies need to be in place a minimum of 6 months before the scheduled date of an event. 

But since the event was never sanctioned, then 1) no one should've been preparing for it and 2) no one should've made travel arrangements to attend. 


Exactly! Chic I didn't say anything in my post that is wrong.  I think EVRYONE on here and anyone who heard of the Toronto Pro including the ahtlete who were going t compete that EVERYONE was under the impression this was a done deal, an officially sanctioned show by the IFBB.  Why in the hell would the IFBB schedule an event, promote it on their website, allow promotion and allow their athletes (IFBB Pros) to diet and prepare for this show unless it was a done deal  Do you mean anyone can call the IFBB and say I want to do a show.  And immediately the IFBB puts it on there schedule promotes it to their athletes and then asks to get paid.  And this wasn't even the first show for them.  Talking about putting the cart before the horse.  Please tell us this isn't truly the way the IFBB operates.  The schedule events before even making sure they are real.  Pleas tell us that isn't the fact.  If it is then the IFBB is way worse than I thought.  I again think my scenario sound closer to the truth.  And really you don't need to know much to figure out the IFBB is worried.  And sorry Manion is not enforcing anything but covering his ass.  They fuced up and now they look like shit pretty easy to see.  I dn't want to start argueing with you again.  You know I am right.  Call them up and tell them to fight their own battles.  Quit letting them use you like they do.

Chick

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #161 on: May 03, 2006, 12:28:13 PM »
Exactly! Chic I didn't say anything in my post that is wrong.  I think EVRYONE on here and anyone who heard of the Toronto Pro including the ahtlete who were going t compete that EVERYONE was under the impression this was a done deal, an officially sanctioned show by the IFBB.  Why in the hell would the IFBB schedule an event, promote it on their website, allow promotion and allow their athletes (IFBB Pros) to diet and prepare for this show unless it was a done deal  Do you mean anyone can call the IFBB and say I want to do a show.  And immediately the IFBB puts it on there schedule promotes it to their athletes and then asks to get paid.  And this wasn't even the first show for them.  Talking about putting the cart before the horse.  Please tell us this isn't truly the way the IFBB operates.  The schedule events before even making sure they are real.  Pleas tell us that isn't the fact.  If it is then the IFBB is way worse than I thought.  I again think my scenario sound closer to the truth.  And really you don't need to know much to figure out the IFBB is worried.  And sorry Manion is not enforcing anything but covering his ass.  They fuced up and now they look like shit pretty easy to see.  I dn't want to start argueing with you again.  You know I am right.  Call them up and tell them to fight their own battles.  Quit letting them use you like they do.

Wayne of alll people will tell you that he bent the rules more than once (Orlando) only to have it bite him in the ass. It was more common than you think to waive the sanction Fee, and prize money secured, in order to even have a show.

YOU of all people know thats it's a hit or miss...there are no guarantees when it comes to sponsors following through, and people showing up.

Winston was given this consideration due to his long standing history in the IFBB, his commitment to BB, and his efforts to make this show successful over the last 3 years...some slack was cut to give him a chance to get the ball rolling and save another pro show for the athletes and fans. I'm not here to dispute whether or not Winston has made the right moves, or is a savvy business man.....


irejistirred4deena

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #162 on: May 03, 2006, 12:43:23 PM »

Let me clear up a few points reguarding thr Toronto Pro...

 and ticket sales were not what they should have been to have a successful show.



Chick, do you think 100 dollars give or take is a reasonable price for a fan to pay for a ticket to the lowest end show on the IFBB circuit competitor wise? 

 

Chick

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #163 on: May 03, 2006, 12:56:25 PM »
No, I think it's ridiculous...

If I were running that show...I would have been selling cheap-ass tickets and comping my but off for the first 2 years to get a base first...once you establish a sound fan base, then you can slowly increase ticket prices to compensate.

MB

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #164 on: May 03, 2006, 01:03:24 PM »
The IFBB could gain control of this situation by promoting their own shows.  I know they don't want to take the financial risk, but it would make a lot of sense.  There would be no sanction fees, less dependence on sponsor money, and uniformity among the shows.  They could hire their own employees to do stage lighting, stage design, music, tickets, etc.  How many new shows come along and it's a total screw up.  The standard excuse is that it was their first try, and we'll do better next year.  That may be a legitimate excuse, but if the IFBB ran their own shows, they could develop an experienced group and get it right every time.   

Chick

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #165 on: May 03, 2006, 01:04:32 PM »
This might be the first thing we agree on MB...

I've asked this various question for many years now...

irejistirred4deena

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #166 on: May 03, 2006, 01:15:03 PM »
No, I think it's ridiculous...

If I were running that show...I would have been selling cheap-ass tickets and comping my but off for the first 2 years to get a base first...once you establish a sound fan base, then you can slowly increase ticket prices to compensate.

You've got connections not too far away, maybe you can pull something off 8).  Niagara Falls is one of the most popular tourist destinations in North America if not the world, basically the Las Vegas of Canada on a smaller scale - if the O can thrive in Vegas based on the fact that fans make a weekend out of it I would think the Falls should be able to support a decent annual pro show, just don't call it the Toronto show lol. 

onlyme

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #167 on: May 03, 2006, 01:18:20 PM »
Wayne of alll people will tell you that he bent the rules more than once (Orlando) only to have it bite him in the ass. It was more common than you think to waive the sanction Fee, and prize money secured, in order to even have a show.

YOU of all people know thats it's a hit or miss...there are no guarantees when it comes to sponsors following through, and people showing up.

Winston was given this consideration due to his long standing history in the IFBB, his commitment to BB, and his efforts to make this show successful over the last 3 years...some slack was cut to give him a chance to get the ball rolling and save another pro show for the athletes and fans. I'm not here to dispute whether or not Winston has made the right moves, or is a savvy business man.....



Yes I agree about the sponsors and such.  the thing I on't uynderstand is that this was an established show with a history.  When I did my show I made sure I had in the bank enough sponsor money to get things going and built from there.  I had to pay my sanction fee up front and I had to put in HUGE deposits for the venue.  I don't understand how an established show like this can be so close to the date and yet just a few weeks out it is cancelled and now it is told no fees were ever paid. I find that very unusual.  Why all the hype of the show and the support of the IFBB and the athletes dieting and getting ready, yet no fees were paid not even the venue.  Why?  Iknow if I was an athlete getting ready for this show I would be so fucking pissed.  I think Chic you shoudl find some sort of restatution for the shtletes that were sceduled for this event.  The IFBB is responsible no matter how you put it.  They promoted it to their atheltes so they are responsible.  No matter how you look at it the IFBB made a mistake and now they are trying to sugar-coat it.  The IFBB should at the very least pay for all airfare already paid for and if possible other costs including the roids they had to buy.   ;D

kmhphoto

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #168 on: May 03, 2006, 01:50:18 PM »
The IFBB could gain control of this situation by promoting their own shows.  I know they don't want to take the financial risk, but it would make a lot of sense.  There would be no sanction fees, less dependence on sponsor money, and uniformity among the shows.  They could hire their own employees to do stage lighting, stage design, music, tickets, etc.  How many new shows come along and it's a total screw up.  The standard excuse is that it was their first try, and we'll do better next year.  That may be a legitimate excuse, but if the IFBB ran their own shows, they could develop an experienced group and get it right every time.   

I agree.

onlyme

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #169 on: May 03, 2006, 02:31:32 PM »
I agree.

Holy Shit Kevin agrees.  Okay this thread can stop it over.  Kevin has approved

kmhphoto

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #170 on: May 03, 2006, 02:34:14 PM »
Holy Shit Kevin agrees.  Okay this thread can stop it over.  Kevin has approved

I promise it will be the last time  ::)

Picsman

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #171 on: May 03, 2006, 04:05:35 PM »
George - Mayhem called they want your bullshit back. You're still bitter the PDI doesn't cater to women so you can kiss Wayne's ass, get a press pass and schmotograph them.  ::) If you want to talk about my affiliation with the IFBB, great start a new thread.

Try to stay focused old man, The Toronto show was cancelled and it sucks for the entire industry, INCLUDING THE WOMEN. That's the point of this thread, not your own personal issues.
Lemming...pull your head out...I'm bitter so I want to kiss someones ass?...you've really lost it there bevis...
I'm very focused...I made comments negative about your daddy the ifbb...boo hoo...listen loser...you the one who hijacked this thread with you smart ass remarks that have nothing to do with the issues....because you can't read...you take it out on others....can I send you some off the rack glasses...seems to me you need them...or perhaps a remedial reading course...oh...and what does my photography have to do with anything?....oh...I get it....you just had to put something negative in...it makes you look better....this has nothing to do with my personal issues...and everthing to do with you being an as*hole...again...get a life...this one is taken bevis...

Picsman

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #172 on: May 03, 2006, 04:30:05 PM »
What the heck?? 

Without those two cash elements in place, there never was a show...therefore, there was nothing to cancel. 

Those monies need to be in place a minimum of 6 months before the scheduled date of an event. 

But since the event was never sanctioned, then 1) no one should've been preparing for it and 2) no one should've made travel arrangements to attend. 

2 things.....fraud...and.. .if not fraud...then according to the documentation below...someone was asleep at the wheel....what else is new...

Article 2 - Sanctioning of International Competitions
2.1 Requirement for Sanction:
An International Competition is any competition involving two or
more National Federations. In order to host such a competition,
an Organizer must first obtain an official sanction from the IFBB.
To obtain an official sanction, the Organizer must file a Request
for Official Sanction with the IFBB. The request must include all of
the pertinent information about the proposed competition. Official
sanctions may only be issued to National Federations; not to
private individuals.
2.2 Contract:
Once the Request for Official Sanction is approved by the IFBB, a
Contract will be forwarded to the Organizer. The Contract will
outline the terms and conditions of the official sanction as well as
the responsibilites of the Organizer towards the successful hosting
of the competition. The Organizer will not advertise or promote
the competition until the Contract is completed and signed by all
relevant parties.
[/b]2.3 Sanction Fee:
The Organizer will pay a sanction fee to the IFBB for the right to
host the competition. The amount of the fee will be set by the
IFBB. All International Competitions are the exclusive property of
the IFBB. The granting of an official sanction and the payment of
a sanction fee does not transfer ownership of this property to the
Organizer.
2.4 Payment of Sanction Fee:
The sanction fee will be paid according to a fixed schedule that is
agreed upon by the IFBB and Organizer. Once the Contract is
signed by all parties and the sanction fee, in whole or in part, is
received by the IFBB, the fee will not be returned to the Organizer
should the Contract, for whatever reason, be subsequently
cancelled.
2.5 Failure to Abide:
Once the Contract has been signed by all parties, should the
Organizer, for whatever reason, subsequently fail to abide by the6
Constitution and Rules, or the terms and conditions of the
Contract, or the directives of the President, the President may
withdraw the sanction and undertake whatever measures are
deemed necessary, disciplinary or otherwise, in order to protect
the interests of the IFBB.
2.6 Delegation of Authority:
The President may, at his discretion, delegate to a member of the
Executive Council, normally the Executive Assistant to the
President or the Executive Director, or the area Vice President,
the authority to represent the interests of the IFBB in granting an
official sanction and signing a Contract for an International
Competition.
Article 3 - Liability of the IFBB
3.1 General:
The organization of an International Competition will be
undertaken at the sole financial risk of the Organizer. The
Organizer must agree in writing to accept this condition, as well as
any other terms and conditions that may be detailed within the
Contract.
3.2 Liability Regarding Failure to Abide:
The IFBB will not be held liable for any financial or other loss,
including any harm to the reputation of the Organizer or any
associated parties, should the Organizer be disciplined for failing
to abide by the Constitution and Rules, or the terms and
conditions of the Contract, or the directives of the President.

LuciusFox

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #173 on: May 03, 2006, 07:04:54 PM »
This might be the first thing we agree on MB...

I've asked this various question for many years now...

  Great post, Bob!

MCWAY

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Re: 2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!
« Reply #174 on: May 04, 2006, 02:29:57 AM »
If anyone should be upset, it's Darrem Charles. That's one less show for him to win this year.

 ;D