For tommywishbone honest coach and others who ran gear in the early to mid 80s

[dj181]

I found a book by Hatfield written in 84 entitled bodybuilding a scientific approach and in this book he gives a 6 week on season and off season cycle os I'm curious if this jived with what you practiced or knew of back then

He said test was a shitty compound and not to be used for BB and to use only "anabolics"

He also said to use 1 mg per kg of bodyweight per day so a 100 kg 220 pound fella should use 700 mgs of total gear

Here is the off season cycle

Week 1 and 2 59 mgs of winny or var and 300 mgs of deca or primo

Week 3 and 4 25 mgs of winny or var and 200 mgs of deca or primo

Weeks 5 and 6 drop the orals and 100 mgs of deca or primo

On season

Week 1 20 mgs of dbol 100 mgs of deca or primo

Week 2 40.mgs of dbol 200.mgs of deca or primo

Week 3 20 mgs dbol and 50.mgs drol 300 mgs of deca or primo

Week 4 100 mgs of deol and 300 mgs deca or primo

Week 5 50 mgs drol and 10 mgs halo and 400 mgs deca or primo

Week 6 50 mgs drol and 20 mgs halo and drop out the injects

Did you do something like this back then or was it common in the early to mid 80s?

[SOMEPARTS]

You're too old to run that anyway. 

[BB]

Hatfield also wrote -  "Anabolic Steroids: What Kind and How Many", which had wilder stacks in it. Kerr also wrote The Practical Use of Anabolic Steroids with Athletes that had a few aggressive stacks in it too around the same time - https://library.lol/main/866C1E89F9BEDD04876C9EF94343231F (click "get" to download) .

The truth is you will never know what an average was/is.

[MajorDomo]

I found a book by Hatfield written in 84 entitled bodybuilding a scientific approach and in this book he gives a 6 week on season and off season cycle os I'm curious if this jived with what you practiced or knew of back then
<snip>

Did you do something like this back then or was it common in the early to mid 80s?

What s the infatuation with drugs? You somehow need to get bigger? Why? It's all a bunch of useless bullshit. You aren't gong to get more women if that is your fantasy. Or is it guy's you are after, lol?  Just be a twink.

[Van_Bilderass]

I remember weird things. Duchaine wrote something about him being afraid a chair would break when Fred sat down as he was eating Three Musketeers candy bars, which were a big part of his diet. Then he said something about Fred having sky high blood pressure, but that you actually feel strong with high bp lol

EDIT: holy shit, found it with google and it was a post by our BB. What a diss lol

"Dr. Squat didn't look good. He didn't look like he was the doctor of anything, much less an actual physical exercise. The "doctor", otherwise known as Fredrick Hatfield, had just been named the editor of Men's Fitness, the new Weider fitness magazine, but his normal bodyweight of 170lbs had puffed up to about 250lbs, and not a very pretty or health 250lbs at that. Apparently he was preparing for his assault on the squat record and trying to break the half ton mark (in amount lifted, not actual bodyweight).

Regardless of admirable goal, the phrase morbidly obese came to mind, especially when Fred wheezed up the short flight of stairs like a steam locomotive that had seen better days.

As he leaned back, and let unopposed gravity guide him into his chair, his great mass accelerated at the speed of a falling object - 32 feet per second, per second. The chair groaned, shook, and ultimately withstood the impact as Dr. Squat collided with it. I marveled at the impressive engineering that must have gone into that chair. It was probably built to withstand  earthquakes or something. Another phrase popped into my head: Heart Attack.

Fred had invited me to discuss business. He wanted me to do a voluminous ergogenic research article (2 weeks of work for $200 bucks), but before we started to talk brass tacks, he had to eat. He pulled out some Three Musketeers - yes, candy bars! Inadvertently, I blurted out "What the fuck?".

Calories are calories responded Dr. Squat.

That was the scene that replayed itself in my mind as I recently received an ad for Fred Hatfield's Bodycraft Software. I didn't expect the software to help me lose 8.8lbs of fat in 35 days, but since I'm a computer software kind of guy, I shelled out the $79.99 anyway. Besides, if I didn't get 50% leaner and 75% stronger, I could always send the darn thing back within 30 days and get my money back. Here's the pitch:
if you have a computer this software will program your weekly meals and workouts according to your wants and desires. Need to get big? Click your mouse here. Need to lose weight? Just click here. I was hoping there would be a "I want to get laid" icon, but I guess 250lb Three Musketeers eaters don't think about stuff like that." 

[dj181]

Hatfield also wrote -  "Anabolic Steroids: What Kind and How Many", which had wilder stacks in it. Kerr also wrote The Practical Use of Anabolic Steroids with Athletes that had a few aggressive stacks in it too around the same time - https://library.lol/main/866C1E89F9BEDD04876C9EF94343231F (click "get" to download) .

The truth is you will never know what an average was/is.

Thanks brother

Much appreciated 🙏

[BB]

That fight went on for years between them. The true start of it was supposedly Hatfield hit on Duchaine's girlfriend during an expo. Hatfield never denied the candy bars, just that they weren't 3 Musketeers, but Snickers . 

[dj181]

What s the infatuation with drugs? You somehow need to get bigger? Why? It's all a bunch of useless bullshit. You aren't gong to get more women if that is your fantasy. Or is it guy's you are after, lol?  Just be a twink.

You don't seem to understand it's not just about bodyweight it's about the look they give you

I have a phot of me bout 1 year ago when I was a fat and soft 160 now I'm a hard a lean 160 and the look is miles away from the fat soft look and I look a good deal bigger rounder and fuller even though I am the exact same weight

And I love learning bout this shit it is highly entertaining and interesting for me

[dj181]

I remember weird things. Duchaine wrote something about him being afraid a chair would break when Fred sat down as he was eating Three Musketeers candy bars, which were a big part of his diet. Then he said something about Fred having sky high blood pressure, but that you actually feel strong with high bp lol

EDIT: holy shit, found it with google and it was a post by our BB. What a diss lol

So that's where doc Blakeley got his diet from

He got up to 349 at 5'11 and he completed at 198s to superheavy which is over 308

[IroNat]

I remember weird things. Duchaine wrote something about him being afraid a chair would break when Fred sat down as he was eating Three Musketeers candy bars, which were a big part of his diet. Then he said something about Fred having sky high blood pressure, but that you actually feel strong with high bp lol

EDIT: holy shit, found it with google and it was a post by our BB. What a diss lol

Calories are calories responded Dr. Squat.

Sig worthy.

[tommywishbone]

Hatfield was a phenomenal powerlifter. Phenomenal!  His 1008 squat at 242 is still pound for pound one of the best ever. His bench press 534 and 760 deadlift all at 242 are crazy.

That PED program he outlines was fairly common.

Real simple-  his view was androgens (primarily) for powerlifting. Pure anabolic (primarily) for bodybuilding.

Fred credentials in powerlifting are unquestionable.  His credentials when working with Bodybuilders- not quite so amazing.

I always thought the title of that book was a bit hyperbolic. There is no science in bodybuilding IMO. You train, you take PEDs, and you eat… then you are either a responder or an average person.

Bodybuilding and science? I’m not too sure they have ever been in the same room at the same time.

[MajorDomo]

Hatfield was a phenomenal powerlifter. Phenomenal!  His 1008 squat at 242 is still pound for pound one of the best ever. His bench press 534 and 760 deadlift all at 242 are crazy.

That PED program he outlines was fairly common.

Real simple-  his view was androgens (primarily) for powerlifting. Pure anabolic (primarily) for bodybuilding.

Fred credentials in powerlifting are unquestionable.  His credentials when working with Bodybuilders- not quite so amazing.

I always thought the title of that book was a bit hyperbolic. There is no science in bodybuilding IMO. You train, you take PEDs, and you eat… then you are either a responder or an average person.

Bodybuilding and science? I’m not too sure they have ever been in the same room at the same time.

This kind of honesty and straight talk  is why Tommywishbone is one of the best posters on Getbig.

[Van_Bilderass]

Arthur Jones I think said Fred had the weakest quads he had ever tested. Anyone know the story?

[Humble Narcissist]

Arthur Jones I think said Fred had the weakest quads he had ever tested. Anyone know the story?

Yeah, but it was probably just Jones being a prick because Hatfield thought (s)HIT training was garbage. Obviously, anyone who can squat over 1000 pounds doesn't have weak quads.

[BB]

Arthur Jones I think said Fred had the weakest quads he had ever tested. Anyone know the story?

Replies #5-6 here - https://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=682214.msg9902505#msg9902505 . 5 shows the article that started the war between them from Hatfield's side. 6 is the quad story.

[dj181]

Hatfield was a phenomenal powerlifter. Phenomenal!  His 1008 squat at 242 is still pound for pound one of the best ever. His bench press 534 and 760 deadlift all at 242 are crazy.

That PED program he outlines was fairly common.

Real simple-  his view was androgens (primarily) for powerlifting. Pure anabolic (primarily) for bodybuilding.

Fred credentials in powerlifting are unquestionable.  His credentials when working with Bodybuilders- not quite so amazing.

I always thought the title of that book was a bit hyperbolic. There is no science in bodybuilding IMO. You train, you take PEDs, and you eat… then you are either a responder or an average person.

Bodybuilding and science? I’m not too sure they have ever been in the same room at the same time.

Thanks for the feedback brother

I never knew his bench was big indeed very impressive

I checked Kerr"s book and he didn't like winny said it sucked basically which in my experience it does/did and he said primo was way inferior to deca

Also said take 4 tabs of dbol and2 rabz of var and 2 tabs of drol

That's 10 mgs of var 20 mgs of dbol and 100 mgs of drol

[tommywishbone]

You’re welcome!

Hey… 10 mgs of real Anavar combined with 20 mgs of real Dianabol combined with 100 mgs of real Anadrol would be a kick ass cycle.

[honest]

I was in the 90s and I liked Hatfield followed his scientific approach to bodybuilding more for the training though, but appreciated his views on the ecto, meso, endo body types at a seminar and his philosophy on what works well and for who, I did tend to agree with his theory back then but recent history shows that plenty of mgs and IUs work well even for Endomorphs who back then were told to avoid androgens due to their tendency to hold water. Nowdays the theory is just up the dose and with it your metabolism worry about that even for Endos, the test HGH combo works for everyone.

I ran test 600-750mgs per week and Deca 300-400mgs offseason front loaded the first month with Dball 50mgs per day first two weeks 25mg per day last two weeks then off stayed on the base for 8 weeks then came off over 4 weeks. Topped out around 285lbs

Competed at 242 100mgs anapolan per day 100mg stan per day parabolan 76mg x3 per week masteron ampules 3 per week  or 300mgs

Never used HGH back then thought if you need that to turn pro, what do you do afterwards, retired as I needed too up the dose further, basically Charles needed me to double my offseason, for 12 weeks then double it again. To put on enough size for NOC 98, I decided to retire instead as he felt my potential tapped out around top 10, even though at that level you can exceed your potential as its how you respond and I still had HGH to throw in. But I was 6 foot to tall for successful pro bodybuilding.

No regrets, This represented the most I ever used in my 7-8 active years pursuing the sport for the purpose of it being a living directly or indirectly.

All I will say even though its all drugs, its also all genetics.  This is an honest statement, hopefully it doesn't promote negative debate like others here, I been around sport longtime and retired as my genetics weren't good enough to be a financially successful pro. I used Pharma grade where I could get it, except for the stan that was Vet gear from Aust.

Retired over 25 years ago still train everyday and have run TRT after turning 40 at first 6 months a year 6 months off now in my 50s
year round at 100mgs per week just to help with recovery.  Train for life,dont go to hard lost quite a few of my friends from back in the day, its not worth it,

Peace.

[Marvin Martian]

Hatfield was a phenomenal powerlifter. Phenomenal!  His 1008 squat at 242 is still pound for pound one of the best ever. His bench press 534 and 760 deadlift all at 242 are crazy.

That PED program he outlines was fairly common.

Real simple-  his view was androgens (primarily) for powerlifting. Pure anabolic (primarily) for bodybuilding.

Fred credentials in powerlifting are unquestionable.  His credentials when working with Bodybuilders- not quite so amazing.

I always thought the title of that book was a bit hyperbolic. There is no science in bodybuilding IMO. You train, you take PEDs, and you eat… then you are either a responder or an average person.

Bodybuilding and science? I’m not too sure they have ever been in the same room at the same time.

You make the ONLY point needed to understand the “science” of bodybuilding. The ONLY science is the difference in genetic response to anabolics. Period!
Of course there is something to be said about training and diet is key to getting in shape, but ultimately either you have the genetic response or you don’t. Obviously you know this but I guess some cats have never known anyone who could take a cc of test or eat a few Dbol and start growing that same day! I remember when a group of us started in the late 80’s. It was only a cc of Cypionate (and a few guys had enough to take ONE anadrol a day). I don’t think guys today’s realize how fckn hard it was to source shit back then. Anyway - I seemed to respond really well in the few of us who trained together, but about a month into it the whole group met up for some reason and this one cat looked fckn ridiculous! It was obvious that there was something different about how his body responded. He looked 10 years ahead of us and his muscles had that round look. He ended up not really caring after a while and stopped even training all together. I saw him probably 15 years ago and couldn’t believe how skinny and soft he looked. But I GUARANTEE you that if he started training tofsy and took gear he would look insane in short time.
Dudes like DJ and Brian will deny the genetic superiority of others but they just have t ever seen it up close

[wes]

Good thread!

[bhank]

I found a book by Hatfield written in 84 entitled bodybuilding a scientific approach and in this book he gives a 6 week on season and off season cycle os I'm curious if this jived with what you practiced or knew of back then

He said test was a shitty compound and not to be used for BB and to use only "anabolics"

He also said to use 1 mg per kg of bodyweight per day so a 100 kg 220 pound fella should use 700 mgs of total gear

Here is the off season cycle

Week 1 and 2 59 mgs of winny or var and 300 mgs of deca or primo

Week 3 and 4 25 mgs of winny or var and 200 mgs of deca or primo

Weeks 5 and 6 drop the orals and 100 mgs of deca or primo

On season

Week 1 20 mgs of dbol 100 mgs of deca or primo

Week 2 40.mgs of dbol 200.mgs of deca or primo

Week 3 20 mgs dbol and 50.mgs drol 300 mgs of deca or primo

Week 4 100 mgs of deol and 300 mgs deca or primo

Week 5 50 mgs drol and 10 mgs halo and 400 mgs deca or primo

Week 6 50 mgs drol and 20 mgs halo and drop out the injects

Did you do something like this back then or was it common in the early to mid 80s?

Again no idea why you are obsessed with what gear other people took 30 years ago. You know what they also did? They ate food something you can't even afford to do yet you prattle on about gear all day when you are living in a room paid for by your mom surviving on 30 dollars a week of worth of food. Real bodybuilding eat that for lunch

[bhank]

You make the ONLY point needed to understand the “science” of bodybuilding. The ONLY science is the difference in genetic response to anabolics. Period!
Of course there is something to be said about training and diet is key to getting in shape, but ultimately either you have the genetic response or you don’t. Obviously you know this but I guess some cats have never known anyone who could take a cc of test or eat a few Dbol and start growing that same day! I remember when a group of us started in the late 80’s. It was only a cc of Cypionate (and a few guys had enough to take ONE anadrol a day). I don’t think guys today’s realize how fckn hard it was to source shit back then. Anyway - I seemed to respond really well in the few of us who trained together, but about a month into it the whole group met up for some reason and this one cat looked fckn ridiculous! It was obvious that there was something different about how his body responded. He looked 10 years ahead of us and his muscles had that round look. He ended up not really caring after a while and stopped even training all together. I saw him probably 15 years ago and couldn’t believe how skinny and soft he looked. But I GUARANTEE you that if he started training tofsy and took gear he would look insane in short time.
Dudes like DJ and Brian will deny the genetic superiority of others but they just have t ever seen it up close

Being 5 foot 4 and 300lbs does not make someone genetically superior

[dj181]

I was in the 90s and I liked Hatfield followed his scientific approach to bodybuilding more for the training though, but appreciated his views on the ecto, meso, endo body types at a seminar and his philosophy on what works well and for who, I did tend to agree with his theory back then but recent history shows that plenty of mgs and IUs work well even for Endomorphs who back then were told to avoid androgens due to their tendency to hold water. Nowdays the theory is just up the dose and with it your metabolism worry about that even for Endos, the test HGH combo works for everyone.

I ran test 600-750mgs per week and Deca 300-400mgs offseason front loaded the first month with Dball 50mgs per day first two weeks 25mg per day last two weeks then off stayed on the base for 8 weeks then came off over 4 weeks. Topped out around 285lbs

Competed at 242 100mgs anapolan per day 100mg stan per day parabolan 76mg x3 per week masteron ampules 3 per week  or 300mgs

Never used HGH back then thought if you need that to turn pro, what do you do afterwards, retired as I needed too up the dose further, basically Charles needed me to double my offseason, for 12 weeks then double it again. To put on enough size for NOC 98, I decided to retire instead as he felt my potential tapped out around top 10, even though at that level you can exceed your potential as its how you respond and I still had HGH to throw in. But I was 6 foot to tall for successful pro bodybuilding.

No regrets, This represented the most I ever used in my 7-8 active years pursuing the sport for the purpose of it being a living directly or indirectly.

All I will say even though its all drugs, its also all genetics.  This is an honest statement, hopefully it doesn't promote negative debate like others here, I been around sport longtime and retired as my genetics weren't good enough to be a financially successful pro. I used Pharma grade where I could get it, except for the stan that was Vet gear from Aust.

Retired over 25 years ago still train everyday and have run TRT after turning 40 at first 6 months a year 6 months off now in my 50s
year round at 100mgs per week just to help with recovery.  Train for life,dont go to hard lost quite a few of my friends from back in the day, its not worth it,

Peace.

Thanks for the very detailed reply

Appreciate it brother

[dj181]

You make the ONLY point needed to understand the “science” of bodybuilding. The ONLY science is the difference in genetic response to anabolics. Period!
Of course there is something to be said about training and diet is key to getting in shape, but ultimately either you have the genetic response or you don’t. Obviously you know this but I guess some cats have never known anyone who could take a cc of test or eat a few Dbol and start growing that same day! I remember when a group of us started in the late 80’s. It was only a cc of Cypionate (and a few guys had enough to take ONE anadrol a day). I don’t think guys today’s realize how fckn hard it was to source shit back then. Anyway - I seemed to respond really well in the few of us who trained together, but about a month into it the whole group met up for some reason and this one cat looked fckn ridiculous! It was obvious that there was something different about how his body responded. He looked 10 years ahead of us and his muscles had that round look. He ended up not really caring after a while and stopped even training all together. I saw him probably 15 years ago and couldn’t believe how skinny and soft he looked. But I GUARANTEE you that if he started training tofsy and took gear he would look insane in short time.
Dudes like DJ and Brian will deny the genetic superiority of others but they just have t ever seen it up close

I've said a few times that my genetics suckass for gaining muscle

The genetically elite eat more and most the calories go straight to muscle I eat more and most the calories go straight to fat

So I waste time and money if I eat more food

I do have condition genetics though as I can stay ripped and dry even on dbol deca and sust with no ai and I do not suffer staying ripped and I dry I can hold 5% indefinitely not many can do that

I've also got very good structure genetics but that don't really matter since I can't add on muscle😂

[38 returns]

Being 5 foot 4 and 300lbs does not make someone genetically superior

when it comes to building muscle it does oyu fucking moron

you are 5'11 200lb a bit over.

you aren't cut out for bodybuilding

your structure is off

BUT PLEASE NO PHOTOS YOU BIG GAY BEAR NO INTEREST IN SEEING OYUR BALD FUCKING HEAD AGAIN EVER OTHER THAN IN A MSSING PERSONS MUGSHOT