Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[Hulkster]

the main problem I have with dorian's front lat spread is that although the lats are huge and thick, everything else sucks because it is always so damn smooth and doughy..

just look:

[Hulkster]

crappy 2001 shape, but check out the lats

[suckmymuscle]

you asked me to give you one example of a bodybuilder with a worse back who beat another in a rear pose b/c of his triceps long heads, as if to suggest this is proof the triceps don't matter from the back. So I responded that calves don't matter either according to your logic. I asked you to show me one bodybuilder who beat another that was better in a pose except for the calves.

  But the issue here is relevance. I may have overstretched my argument by saying that the long head of the triceps wouldn't win a mandatory, which made you think that I was implying that another muscle would even if the bodybuilder in question was inferior at everything else, but the argument, itself, remains valid. My contention is that, when viewed from behind in the rear lat spread and the relaxed round, the inner triceps head is such an insignificant part that I just couldn't see how it could tip the scales in favor of a bodybuilder if all other things were equal. If we assume that the inner and medial triceps heads, of both arms, represent 3% of the muscle mass visible in the rear lat spread and the relexed back round, while both calves represent 10%, then what is more important? The calves. Quoting myself, if two bodybuilders with equivalent backs but differing triceps and calves were compared in the rear lat spread and the back relaxed round, then who would win? I think the guy with the better calves would win, because there's simply far more calves visible than triceps. An example? At the 1996 Olympia, Dorian deastroyed Ronnie with straight-firsts scores in the back relaxed and the rear lat spread. Dorian was depleted, far from his best, so Ronnie might have had as big a back as Dorian and his triceps were already bigger when visible from the back. So why did Dorian win? You might argue that it's because Dorian was harder in the back, but then Ronnie's hams were already better. So what tipped the scales in Dorian's favor? Perhaps it was his superior calves. It might not have been, but the fact that Ronnie had a back as big that year and superior triceps and still lost the back relaxed round and the rear lat spread to Dorian speaks volumes about the relevance of calves when contrasted to the relevance of the triceps in these two specific poses.

the arms are plenty visible in the back relaxed and rear lat spread. The triceps long head may not represent the same importance as a larger muscle, for example the lats or hamstrings, but they are still evaluated in these poses.

  I never denied that they are visible. However, I think that what is visible is simply too little to be that relevant to the point of tipping the scales of a bodybuilder when everything else is equal. Now, the inner triceps head may be the bigger one, but only the back part of it is visible here due to the specific positioning of the arms, so I don't think it matters much.

Your comment that the triceps long heads are "so small they are irrelevant" has been disproven by IFBB judging criteria.

  The judging criteria says that it is relevant, but that such relevant is diminished when the muscle is barely visible.

The biceps is composed of two brachii heads - a short and a long one - and the brachialis. The front double biceps only displays the short head of the biceps brachii. Therefore, the entire mass of the biceps is not visible in this pose like you claim. The rear double biceps displays the long head of the biceps brachii and brachialis, which together constitute more of the biceps than the short head alone.

  Ok, but the triceps outer head is visible in the back double biceps, as well as the deltoids, and these are areas that Dorian is at least as good if not better than Ronnie. So who cares what part of the biceps is visible here, because Ronnie has better biceps than Dorian anyway. So Ronnie might win the front double biceps convincingly when it comes to arms, because hios biceps are bigger and his advantage in medial and inner triceps heads are apparent here, but he wouldn't win the back double biceps, because the only advantage he has over Dorian is biceps.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[NeoSeminole]

But the issue here is relevance. I may have overstretched my argument by saying that the long head of the triceps wouldn't win a mandatory, which made you think that I was implying that another muscle would even if the bodybuilder in question was inferior at everything else, but the argument, itself, remains valid. My contention is that, when viewed from behind in the rear lat spread and the relaxed round, the inner triceps head is such an insignificant part that I just couldn't see how it could tip the scales in favor of a bodybuilder if all other things were equal. If we assume that the inner and medial triceps heads, of both arms, represent 3% of the muscle mass visible in the rear lat spread and the relexed back round, while both calves represent 10%, then what is more important? The calves. Quoting myself, if two bodybuilders with equivalent backs but differing triceps and calves were compared in the rear lat spread and the back relaxed round, then who would win? I think the guy with the better calves would win, because there's simply far more calves visible than triceps. An example? At the 1996 Olympia, Dorian deastroyed Ronnie with straight-firsts scores in the back relaxed and the rear lat spread. Dorian was depleted, far from his best, so Ronnie might have had as big a back as Dorian and his triceps were already bigger when visible from the back. So why did Dorian win? You might argue that it's because Dorian was harder in the back, but then Ronnie's hams were already better. So what tipped the scales in Dorian's favor? Perhaps it was his superior calves. It might not have been, but the fact that Ronnie had a back as big that year and superior triceps and still lost the back relaxed round and the rear lat spread to Dorian speaks volumes about the relevance of calves when contrasted to the relevance of the triceps in these two specific poses.

I never denied that they are visible. However, I think that what is visible is simply too little to be that relevant to the point of tipping the scales of a bodybuilder when everything else is equal. Now, the inner triceps head may be the bigger one, but only the back part of it is visible here due to the specific positioning of the arms, so I don't think it matters much.

The judging criteria says that it is relevant, but that such relevant is diminished when the muscle is barely visible.

Ok, but the triceps outer head is visible in the back double biceps, as well as the deltoids, and these are areas that Dorian is at least as good if not better than Ronnie. So who cares what part of the biceps is visible here, because Ronnie has better biceps than Dorian anyway. So Ronnie might win the front double biceps convincingly when it comes to arms, because hios biceps are bigger and his advantage in medial and inner triceps heads are apparent here, but he wouldn't win the back double biceps, because the only advantage he has over Dorian is biceps.

[forcedreps]

FINAL PROVE ON FAKE PICS FROM 1999.

HERE IS THE ENTIRE ROUTINE AND IN NO WAY DO THEY MATCH THE PICS HULKSTER HAS BEEN POSTING SINCE PAGE 18.

NOTICE RONNIE'S COLOR AND THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THAT AND THE DOCTURED PICS.

the 2 are not even remotely close. 

forcedreps, where are you?  you have much explaining to do?


you claim you dont go to the boards, but you'll find the 1 sentence reference i made to you in a thread that is 780 pages and 30 more pages since you last posted.

Ok, one more time I give away 5 minutes of my life and step down to the retarded level of internet fanboy bodybuilding.

Time to *own* you skinny little bitch again 

Here you go skinny little nerd 
 

The quality of the youtube clips from muscledvd are taken from a VHS tape jackass.

How can you say stuff like ***HERE IS THE ENTIRE ROUTINE AND IN NO WAY DO THEY MATCH THE PICS HULKSTER HAS BEEN POSTING SINCE PAGE 18***

Are you blind ?

BTW caps lock is for retards, your BS will still look not more important you nerd 

Sure the quality of the youtube videos are not the same like the DVD or a good DVD rip cause youtube vids are always very strong compressed but hell, even a idiot like you should be able to see that coleman still looks nearly the same like on my pics.

Here is the source that I've used to make my pics, Like I said all is legit even if a few yates hardcore nut-huggers have a hard time to believe that.

OK DVD rip.

http://rapidshare.de/files/34357800/1999_olymp.part1.rar.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/34362584/1999_olymp.part2.rar.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/34364476/1999_olymp.part3.rar.html

Password =   www.fittimpo.cz

DL it, take pics with bs player like I have done and if your pics look like mine then you are retarded but most of the ppl here already know that

Here is one of the so called DVD clips from muscledvd on youtube.

If you would have opened your eyes before you have talked BS then you would have noticed the Hi-Fi at the start in the right upper corner you little retarded internet bodybuilder.

DVD's/DVD players don't do that, only retarded VHS recorders so the source of the youtube clip is crapy VHS but how could you know that ?

You must live under a stone, I bet you have never seen a DVD player or a VHS recorder in your entire life so you have a good excuse this time

IceCold you are just a retard if you think that a VHS rip is more legit than a ok DVD rip.

Yeah the nick of the guy from your youtube link is muscledvd so the clip must be from a DVD LOL!!!!!

Great work Dr.Watson 

Holy fucking christ, you must be the king of the retards here LOL!!!!


BTW, why have you still not downloaded this DVD rip ?

http://rapidshare.de/files/34357800/1999_olymp.part1.rar.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/34362584/1999_olymp.part2.rar.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/34364476/1999_olymp.part3.rar.html

Password =   www.fittimpo.cz

Too stupid to dl from rapidshare, LMAO!!!!!!!!!

DL it take pics and STFU you skinny assclown 

That was the source for my screenshots, yeah I know GMV ( producers of the olympia tapes/DVD's ) have faked the olympia video too that all the yates fanboys like you and NarcissisticDeity etc.... have something to bitch   

Sorry ND, first I thought you can use facts to defend your idol but after I have seen your line ***Countdown to the excues........5........4 .........3...... ***  I can only say you are just another irritated yates fanboy that cannot accept evidences in form of legit pics/videos.

I thought your idol yates looks so much better than coleman in 1999 so why do you come up with crap like faked vids now ?


Hahahahahaha, I bet you were shocked as hell after you have seen my pics the first time.

If you guys still need more evidence how coleman has looked at the 1999 Mr.O no problem.

Next week I'll take a few HQ screencaps 720x480 (NTSC) directly from the 1999 Mr.O DVD.

If that's still not enough evidence for you and for the mentally retarded skinny internet bodybuilder IceCold to show you guys that my pics were never faked then I'll upload the DVD VOB of the 1999 MR.O that shows the Pre-Judging round to shut the mouth of all the shit talkers here.

If you guys were shocked from my pics then I can promise you will hate those HQ DVD screencaps and the VOB file 

I bet even this will not change the mind of IceCold and the other hardcore yates fanboys but hey it's worth a try.

Here is a little tip from me for all the nut-huggers.

If you want show how great your idol is/was use facts and don't come up with stupid excuses about faked vids/pics etc...., this let you guys just look like retarded internet fanboys

[NarcissisticDeity]

Ronnie wins the front double biceps, front lat spread, side chest and most muscular, and ties in the rear double biceps and rear lat spread. That's 4 out of the 8 mandatories vs Dorian's 2.

The comparisons of the compulsory poses cannot be overemphasized
as these comparisons will help the judge to decide
which competitor has the superior physique from the standpoint of
muscular bulk, balanced development, muscular density and
definition.


Ronnie doesn't win ANY mandatory in terms of balanced development , muscular density or conditioning , 98 he loses in terms of muscular bulk , 99 he ties on bulk and still loses on everything else , 01 ASC he ties on conditioning and loses on everything else , 98 Olympia he ties on conditioning and fucking loses on everything else

The comparisons of the compulsory poses cannot be overemphasized
as these comparisons will help the judge to decide
which competitor has the superior physique from the standpoint of
muscular bulk, balanced development, muscular density and
definition.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Sorry ND, first I thought you can use facts to defend your idol but after I have seen your line ***Countdown to the excues........5........4 .........3...... ***  I can only say you are just another irritated yates fanboy that cannot accept evidences in form of legit pics/videos.

I thought your idiol yates looks so much better than coleman in 1999 so why do you come up with crap like faked vids now ?

First of all genius I never claimed they were fake , I said there was an obvious difference in the color and thats true if you can find where I said fake , feel free and try to make me look stupid because like you just made yourself look stupid by claiming something thats simply not true 

Second of all Yates isn't my idol , I don't want to emulate his physique I don't follow his training philosophies
and I didn't think his physique was the type who should have been winning the Mr Olympia , however that has nothing to do with the obvious Yates at his best would beat Ronnie at his , he has to many strengths and meets the criteria better than Coleman , and this 99 Olympia video is old news its been posted at the beginning of this thread You post some screencaps and all the sudden Hulkster thinks he's found the Holy Grail those screencaps don't make a difference , the video has been posted eons ago and so have the pictures , its old news why? this is why

The comparisons of the compulsory poses cannot be overemphasized
as these comparisons will help the judge to decide
which competitor has the superior physique from the standpoint of
muscular bulk, balanced development, muscular density and
definition.

So now you look really fucking stupid because your two points about me are flat out wrong period , do yourself a favor before you make claims , do some research. 

[forcedreps]

I think the fact that you have posted a line like ***Countdown to the excues........5........4 .........3...... *** tells a lot, it tells me that you agree with IceCold the retard so that is like you would have said that my pics were fake.

Otherwise you would have not quoted his BS 

Why would you quote his BS and add some crap if you would not agree with him ?   

Either you agree with him or you just quoted his BS cause you are a yates guy

You must do a lot better than that if you want let me look stupid 

If it was not your intention to agree with IceCold then my bad but sorry man, you still look like a uber yates fanboy to me.

I bet you have at least 1000 posts here in this topic, I'm too lazy to check right now.
If you are not a fanboy who else ?

Opinions are opinions, you like yates and the other ppl like coleman more.

You always try to let it look like the coleman fans are retarded nut-huggers but the yates fans on the other hand are just normal fans and that shows me that you cannot respect the opinions of other ppl.

You have never called a yates fan guy so go figure who the real guy is   

I have read your shit now long enough, shit like typical coleman guy and other BS.

You must be a really sad guy if you must insult others only cause they don't share your opinion

I couldn't care less about the yates/coleman war, I just get annoyed if skinny assclowns like IceCold claim that my pics are faked.

Yeah I fake pics and vids to let bodybuilder A look better than bodybuilder B

That must be the reason why I have posted yates 1993 pics and vids too 

I give a lovely f**k about bodybuilder A or bodybuilder B, sure I have my opinion on this subject too but I keep it for myself 

I don't even try to argue with you guys here on the forum..... 

Hmmm, how do I end this post now ?

Oh now I know.

Arguing on the net is like running in the special olympics.
Even if you win, you're still retarded and even more retarded if you cannot tolerate the opinion of other ppl.

Now find more pics of your idol yates or of his skinny looking son to show me that you are not a guy 

[the shadow]

hahahah epic posts forcedreps..hahahahahah

[Bear]

The comparisons of the compulsory poses cannot be overemphasized
as these comparisons will help the judge to decide
which competitor has the superior physique from the standpoint of
muscular bulk, balanced development, muscular density and
definition.


Ronnie doesn't win ANY mandatory in terms of balanced development , muscular density or conditioning , 98 he loses in terms of muscular bulk , 99 he ties on bulk and still loses on everything else , 01 ASC he ties on conditioning and loses on everything else , 98 Olympia he ties on conditioning and fucking loses on everything else

The comparisons of the compulsory poses cannot be overemphasized
as these comparisons will help the judge to decide
which competitor has the superior physique from the standpoint of
muscular bulk, balanced development, muscular density and
definition.

A body with no arms does not a balanced physique make. Face it.

Back double bi = Ronnie





Btw the Yates pic is considered one of his all time best yet his famous disappearing lat width is on full display in this pic. Where's the world-beating taper? Cormier once said it in MD that guys like Dorian have a great lat spread but a hard time with the back double bi. Plus as one can clearly see his delts overpower his arms in a most undesireable manner.

So the lat spread is up for debate but here it's really no contest, just observe the pics. Ronnie has explosive muscle bellies, Dorian has lumpy bits in a lot of the right places, but decidedly flat muscle bellies because of the extreme hardness he achieved. I guess in that respect it's apples and oranges. Just not in this pose.

[IceCold]

This is so easy to answer. That routine is a part from the DVD. I even have that routine from the DVD. The video I seen on youtube was not and that is not the video I seen on youtube. There are 2 different video sources.

so you are saying that there are different ronnie coleman posing routines from the night show at the 99 olympia taken by two different sources?

the dvd and youtube clip match exactly. 

the pictures hulkster posts match nothing.

just look at ronnie coleman's fucking color. 

[IceCold]

foreced reps,

like i mentioned before, the dvd i have does not match the pics you claim you posted. 

even if you claim one source is a dvd or vhs, why would ronnie coleman's color change, but yet have a more clear picture?

why cant you understand that no other fucking source on this planet matches the pictures you posted.  not a vhs, dvd, picture, anything.

and btw, the links you listed dont work - typical. 

you keep calling everyone internet fanboys - that's like kamali calling people bucktooth jackasses.

i mentioned your name in 1 sentence 5 pages ago, and you magically responded.  you're talking shit about us being on here, but how would you know your name was mentioned unless:

you read every post or do a search for your name.

[IceCold]

by the way, the REAL pictures from 99 are more than sufficient for a comparison against dorian.

i wasnt bitching just bc coleman "looks better", but bc the pictures are not accurate. 

[IceCold]

by the way, the REAL pictures from 99 are more than sufficient for a comparison against dorian.

i wasnt bitching just bc coleman "looks better", but bc the pictures are not accurate.  

[NarcissisticDeity]

I think the fact that you have posted a line like ***Countdown to the excues........5........4 .........3...... *** tells a lot, it tells me that you agree with IceCold the retard so that is like you would have said that my pics were fake.

Otherwise you would have not quoted his BS 

Why would you quote his BS and add some crap if you would not agree with him ?   

Either you agree with him or you just quoted his BS cause you are a yates guy

You must do a lot better than that if you want let me look stupid 

If it was not your intention to agree with IceCold then my bad but sorry man, you still look like a uber yates fanboy to me.

I bet you have at least 1000 posts here in this topic, I'm too lazy to check right now.
If you are not a fanboy who else ?

Opinions are opinions, you like yates and the other ppl like coleman more.

You always try to let it look like the coleman fans are retarded nut-huggers but the yates fans on the other hand are just normal fans and that shows me that you cannot respect the opinions of other ppl.

You have never called a yates fan guy so go figure who the real guy is   

I have read your shit now long enough, shit like typical coleman guy and other BS.

You must be a really sad guy if you must insult others only cause they don't share your opinion

I couldn't care less about the yates/coleman war, I just get annoyed if skinny assclowns like IceCold claim that my pics are faked.

Yeah I fake pics and vids to let bodybuilder A look better than bodybuilder B

That must be the reason why I have posted yates 1993 pics and vids too 

I give a lovely f**k about bodybuilder A or bodybuilder B, sure I have my opinion on this subject too but I keep it for myself 

I don't even try to argue with you guys here on the forum..... 

Hmmm, how do I end this post now ?

Oh now I know.

Arguing on the net is like running in the special olympics.
Even if you win, you're still retarded and even more retarded if you cannot tolerate the opinion of other ppl.

Now find more pics of your idol yates or of his skinny looking son to show me that you are not a guy 

You must do a lot better than that if you want let me look stupid  I didn't need to do anything you made yourself look stupid  I just pointed it out before and now.

[pobrecito]

I simply do not see Coleman being able to beat this....Yates is just as, if not more muscular, and more conditioned and harder.

[pobrecito]

Dorian's size and quality in 95 is just mind-boggling. His legs look absolutely massive.

[NarcissisticDeity]

A body with no arms does not a balanced physique make. Face it.

Back double bi = Ronnie





Btw the Yates pic is considered one of his all time best yet his famous disappearing lat width is on full display in this pic. Where's the world-beating taper? Cormier once said it in MD that guys like Dorian have a great lat spread but a hard time with the back double bi. Plus as one can clearly see his delts overpower his arms in a most undesireable manner.

So the lat spread is up for debate but here it's really no contest, just observe the pics. Ronnie has explosive muscle bellies, Dorian has lumpy bits in a lot of the right places, but decidedly flat muscle bellies because of the extreme hardness he achieved. I guess in that respect it's apples and oranges. Just not in this pose.

First you don't know what balance is , if you paid attention more to this thread you'd know

enough with this ' no arms ' nonsense thats such a pathetic claim let me explain to you exactly why Ronnie is unbalanced especially in the back double biceps shot

lets begin with the calves or lack there of lack of detail & development and balance & proportion , his calves are undersized and they're NOT in proportion with his quads strike one whats the sense of having gigantic quads when they highlight how small and underwhelming his calves are

lets move up to glutes I know most Coleman fans love his glutes  but they are overdeveloped and that means this harms his midbalance , his glutes are are not in proportion with the rest of his physique especially when they stick out and can be seen from the front strike two

moving up until we get to the delts which are which you claimed Dorian's overpower his arms lol FYI delts are supposed to be bigger than your arms not the other way around like Ronnie who's biceps/triceps make his delts look small in the back double biceps pose and guys with high peaked biceps usually have this problem but Ronnie's are more exaggerated , Ronnie has superheavyweights biceps/triceps and heavyweights delts strike three

Now lets move on to the the arms , now Ronnie's arms are NOT balanced not by a long shot his biceps/triceps complement each other well until you get to the forearms which look like twigs in relation , same with the calves whats the sense of having gigantic biceps/triceps if the forearms aren't in proportion & balance ? strike four

Now what do the judges look for?

The comparisons of the compulsory poses cannot be overemphasized
as these comparisons will help the judge to decide
which competitor has the superior physique from the standpoint of
muscular bulk, balanced development, muscular density and
definition.

balance development in every single mandatory pose , who is more balanced? Dorian

1st picture Dorian's much better balanced & proportioned legs
2nd picture Dorian's much better balance & proportioned arms ( biceps/triceps/forearms )
3rd picture Dorian's biceps/triceps/forearms with better balance & proportion in relation to his deltoids
4th picture A Silhouette showcasing Dorian's much better overall balance & proportion

and I can make a 5th picture of Dorian's glutes & Ronnies sticking out but you get the picture

[Shockwave]

I think the term balance is a point of view anymore, You can tell by some people thinking small calves are "balanced" and arms bigger than delts are "balanced"
It's just that people are so used to seeing this now, that they think it's normal.
It's a "Johnny come lately" thing.

[NarcissisticDeity]

I think the term balance is a point of view anymore, You can tell by some people thinking small calves are "balanced" and arms bigger than delts are "balanced"
It's just that people are so used to seeing this now, that they think it's normal.
It's a "Johnny come lately" thing.

Exactly how anyone in their right mind can say Ronnie is balanced is beyond me and he's aesthetic thats another gem  more ' aesthetic ' than Yates sure , aesthetic in the classic sense of the bodybuilding terminology ? get serious .

[Iceman1981]

Your claims are weak kid....but you honestly have nothing left but to make absurd claims, you've hit the wall. No bodybuilder was able to challenge Ronnie during his reign, but there has never before or after been a bodybuilder like Yates at his best. These pictures prove that.

Listen good, Are you an idiot? Who mentioned anything about his rear lat spread? I didn't. In case you missed it, I am talking about his back double bi shot looking flat.

[pobrecito]

Listen good, Are you an idiot? Who mentioned anything about his rear lat spread? I didn't. In case you missed it, I am talking about his back double bi shot looking flat.

In case you missed it...Yates' back was hardly "flat"...this has been proven over and over again visually. Yates stood straight up with he hit his rear dbl whereas Ronnie leans back a ton. Couple that with Ronnie's puffier, more water laden muscles and you get what Hulkster calls ' lumpiness ' 

[NarcissisticDeity]

In case you missed it...Yates' back was hardly "flat"...this has been proven over and over again visually. Yates stood straight up with he hit his rear dbl whereas Ronnie leans back a ton. Couple that with Ronnie's puffier, more water laden muscles and you get what Hulkster calls ' lumpiness ' 

Who fucking cares if it ' looks flat ' is it flat? his traps are among the thickest ever even at a low bodyweight these guys they don't have much to work with so they have to create new absurd advantages for Ronnie lol ' lumpiness ' they now they've been proven dead wrong about Ronnie having the best back , I posted a detail explanation , comparisons , videos and quotes from Ron and Samir

[Iceman1981]

In case you missed it...Yates' back was hardly "flat"...this has been proven over and over again visually. Yates stood straight up with he hit his rear dbl whereas Ronnie leans back a ton. Couple that with Ronnie's puffier, more water laden muscles and you get what Hulkster calls ' lumpiness ' 

Oh shut the f*ck up you idiot. I mention his back double bi and you post a pic of his relexed back? Man, you are an incompetent a$$hole. Here it is again. Flatter than a piece of ply wood.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Oh shut the f*ck up you idiot. I mention his back double bi and you post a pic of his relexed back? Man, you are an incompetent a$$hole. Here it is again. Flatter than a piece of ply wood.

Thats an awesome shot man just an amazing shot ! lol flat