Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[Hulkster]

you also have to remember though Dorian is more muscular than Coleman at that weight. It comes down to SHAPE vs. sheer MUSCULARITY...

ah, but in bodybuilding,

Big muscles with shape:



will always beat big muscles without.



Dorian beat guys with better shape and quality (flex, shawn) because he bigger and had wide lats.

He would not have the size advantage against Ronnie, not would he have a lat width advantage.

hence, he would lose.

[Hulkster]

I am a Dorian and Ronnie fan and I can greatly appreciate Ronnie's form in '99

Here is the main difference I see from the videos of Dorian and Ronnie I have watched...

Ronnie = holy shit from both the front and back
Dorian = holy shit from just the back

agreed.

People have been saying this from page 1. ND and co just don't get it .

[pobrecito]

ah, but in bodybuilding,

Big muscles with shape:



will always beat big muscles without.



Dorian beat guys with better shape and quality (flex, shawn) because he bigger and had wide lats.

He would not have the size advantage against Ronnie, not would he have a lat width advantage.

hence, he would lose.

that's a convincing argument, but it's moot becuase the two never stepped on the same stage both at their primes.

[Hulkster]

that's a convincing argument, but it's moot becuase the two never stepped on the same stage both at their primes.

you are correct: it is a very convicing arguement.

right ND and Co?

[NarcissisticDeity]

you are correct: it is a very convicing arguement.

right ND and Co?

Well you never convinced me  and Dorian beat them all and did it convincingly , Ronnie may have had a easy time with a past prime Flex in 98/99 but Ronnie never faced anyone of Dorian's caliber who could match or surpass him on on the back , and surpass him in dryness and muscle density & Thickness and balance & proportion .  Ronnie beat guys that Dorian had no problem with and when Yates beat them they were much sharper .

[pobrecito]

Well you never convinced me  and Dorian beat them all and did it convincingly , Ronnie may have had a easy time with a past prime Flex in 98/99 but Ronnie never faced anyone of Dorian's caliber who could match or surpass him on on the back , and surpass him in dryness and muscle density & Thickness and balance & proportion .  Ronnie beat guys that Dorian had no problem with and when Yates beat them they were much sharper .

excellent post

[NarcissisticDeity]

that's a convincing argument, but it's moot becuase the two never stepped on the same stage both at their primes.

Whats ironic is Ronnie was closer to his prime than Dorian was to his and Dorian could still beat Ronnie with ease with a torn bicep/tricep , two torn quads and a distended gut ( 97 ) lol so imagine a prime opperating Dorian injury free , factor in his win percentage rate ( 88% ) and the fact Dorian beat Ronnie eight times previously and its safe to assume Dorian would edge out Ronnie .

[pumpster]

Your sole argument for my comparisons not being scaled correctly is that Dorian's waist should be wider

holy f**k....that video of Ronnie in '99 is unreal...we need Dorian's '93 night routine for comparison

Now you're getting it-videos showing Coleman domination along with a conclusive getbig poll Coleman ownage of Yates are just side-stepped.

If these two opinions are side-stepped, rest assured he'll move on back to the lighter-skinned argument next. 

[FREAKgeek]

I fail to see why people make comments like this. I think both at their respective primes it would be a tough battle between the two. But to claim Dorian would look bad, like a construction worker, etc is rediculous. As I have mentioned earlier, take ANY other bodybuilder and scrutinize him like you do Yates and Coleman and you will see just how far superior these two men are to the competition.

I'm being facetious.

But, Ronnie's best is still better.

[pobrecito]

Well you never convinced me  and Dorian beat them all and did it convincingly , Ronnie may have had a easy time with a past prime Flex in 98/99 but Ronnie never faced anyone of Dorian's caliber who could match or surpass him on on the back , and surpass him in dryness and muscle density & Thickness and balance & proportion .  Ronnie beat guys that Dorian had no problem with and when Yates beat them they were much sharper .

well you also have to factor the fact that Mr. Olympia never loses his crown (1994, 2001)

[NarcissisticDeity]

well you also have to factor the fact that Mr. Olympia never loses his crown (1994, 2001)

Good point ( however 94 was no contest ) but we also have to factor in that Dorian dominated a high higher quality caliber of competitor and Ronnie has had a more close calls than Dorian 98/01/02/04/05 none of these were straight firsts victories , 98 was by just 3 points , 01 by 4 points etc .

[FREAKgeek]

Good point ( however 94 was no contest ) but we also have to factor in that Dorian dominated a high higher quality caliber of competitor and Ronnie has had a more close calls than Dorian 98/01/02/04/05 none of these were straight firsts victories , 98 was by just 3 points , 01 by 4 points etc .

1.) Scott, Oliva, Zane, Bannout, and Dickerson all suffered losses after being Mr. O. There is no incentive to fix a Mr. O.

2.) What you equate to "higher quality caliber of competitor" is a guy who essentially fails to be a mass monster. The sport evolved for this demand. It is easy for a pro to be shredded and "balanced" but with moderate amounts of muscle (in the modern contemporary sense), i.e a lightweight. What was the times 10 - 15 years ago is not comparable just like your early 90's nuthugers aren't comparable to the golden age.

3.) Nobody who wins 8 Olympias has an easy schedule.

[pumpster]

1.) Scott, Oliva, Zane, Bannout, and Dickerson all suffered losses after being Mr. O. There is no incentive to fix a Mr. O.

Wrong, Scott retired. You've also erred with a huge assumption that there's no incentive to fix the contest. How the f*** do you know that? Your assumption doesn't factor in the obvious fact that more marketable winners led to better magazine, supplement & equipment sales as well as the general elevation of BB! Pretty clear that this was important. That Schwarzenegger was handed the ball from Oliva was clearly a good move as history proves.

That's not to say that every single Olympia winner was a great salesman, so don't bother to bring up an example of one that wasn't. Rather, when everything else was more or less equal the one considered more marketable won every time. 

[NarcissisticDeity]

1.) Scott, Oliva, Zane, Bannout, and Dickerson all suffered losses after being Mr. O. There is no incentive to fix a Mr. O.

2.) What you equate to "higher quality caliber of competitor" is a guy who essentially fails to be a mass monster. The sport evolved for this demand. It is easy for a pro to be shredded and "balanced" but with moderate amounts of muscle (in the modern contemporary sense), i.e a lightweight. What was the times 10 - 15 years ago is not comparable just like your early 90's nuthugers aren't comparable to the golden age.

3.) Nobody who wins 8 Olympias has an easy schedule.

1) Scott retired in 66 and I'm not sure what you're getting at about fixing an Olympia , which I agree with I don't think any of them were ' fixed '

2) Yates faced no mass monsters? Dillett 285lbs Ferigno 320lbs Fux 280lbs El Sonbaty 285lbs Francios 260lbs Harrison 280lbs Dorian faced them all from 145lb Flavio to a 285lb Nasser and the 90s are synonymous with being shredded

3) 8 straight speaks for itself reguardless .

[pumpster]

) Scott retired in 66 and I'm not sure what you're getting at about fixing an Olympia , which I agree with I don't think any of them were ' fixed '

Re: Scott you've only reiterated what i'd already said.

As far as fixes, Columbu's wins were clear & obvious cases, there were others. I'm not wasting any time on this, it was as clear as day. Some of the extremely questionable results between the late 70s and early 80s led basically to most of the top pros leaving the IFBB or retiring. Nuff said.

[FREAKgeek]

Wrong, Scott retired.

Scott lost 2 pro shows in 1979 (placed poorly). By your logic he should of won.

Your assumption doesn't factor in the obvious fact that more marketable winners led to better magazine, supplement & equipment sales as well as the general elevation of BB! Pretty clear that this was important. That Schwarzenegger was handed the ball from Oliva was clearly a good move as history proves.

Why is Dorian Yates, Ronnie Coleman, Lee Haney, etc more marketable?
And regarding Arnold, I believed he deserved every win he received, 1980 and all. You can site the racial issue but that was in the 70's, the times have changed.

[suckmymuscle]

You've got me all wrong-I embrace your stupidity! Who else would post pics like this while talking about "striations" when his arms & delts are almost entirely absent of them?

  Poop, do you suffer from Down's Syndrome? Perhaps neurogenerative encephalopathy?  Alzheimer's? Do you see those cross-lines in Dorian's chest running on a horizontal plane? Those are called striations. Funny that you would critiixe this pic, especially considering that it's the second most impressive bodybuilding shot ever, losing only to Arnold's side chest shot from the 74 Olympia.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[FREAKgeek]

2) Yates faced no mass monsters? Dillett 285lbs Ferigno 320lbs Fux 280lbs El Sonbaty 285lbs Francios 260lbs Harrison 280lbs Dorian faced them all from 145lb Flavio to a 285lb Nasser and the 90s are synonymous with being shredded

I'm not saying Dorian didn't face them. What I am saying is the attributes you so venerate of the top early 90's competitors is not and will not win an Olympia today.

[pumpster]

Scott lost 2 pro shows in 1979 (placed poorly). By your logic he should of won.

Utter trivia, a complete aside from the central point which you've done nothing to assail. His placing in '79 matters only to Scott groupies.

[suckmymuscle]

Fear & desperation drive SUCKY to lurk on getbig mainly late at night when no one will challenge his absurd choice of shots.

Here's what I think of SUCKY's wheezy attempts to stanche the avalanche of evidence that continues to fall on his head..

  Ok, so let me get this straight. You say Dorian on the Olympia multiple times because it fitted the Weider's ommerial interest. This despite the fact that Dorian is English and that the biggest bodybuilding market, by far, is the U.S. Furthermore, he's Caucasian and it would actually be far more advantageous, from a PR perspective, to give the Olympia to a non-White. If you are accusing the Weider's of racism, then your blaming Dorian's wins on "politics" becomes even more a lost cause, because most Mr.Olympias have been Black. Poop: you are THE dumbest poster on this board, bar none

  Now, addressing my choice of pics, it was made to make a point, you moron. Huckster had argued that all Shadow had, over his competitors was size. And that this shouldn't be the only thing that matters, but also striations, taper, hardness, etc, etc. Ok. So, he said he thinks Dorian should have lost in many of the years he competed. By showing these pics, I was pointing out that Ronnie didn't deserve several of his wins either: in these pics I showed, of the 2004 O, Ronnie is retaining water, has little to none details when standing relaxed, a grossly distended midsection, etc. If Dorian didn't deserve several of his win, then so didn't Ronnie. In 2001 and 2002, for instance, he was only 240+ lbs, flat, lacking in muscuarity and back details. In 2003 he had good conditioning and incredible quad muscularity, but he was distended, with thick obliques, severe imbalances, etc. Ronnie didn't deserve to win in 2000/1/2/3/4. In 2005, he looked good, but it is debatable if he won. He was at his best in 1998/9.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[pumpster]

Do you see those cross-lines in Dorian's chest running on a horizontal plane? Those are called striations.

SUCKMYASSHOLE effortlessly walks into an unopened door once again..your hero ND posted this pic suggesting "striations". SUCKY really does seem cognitively challenged in being utterly unable to grasp that it was in fact his leader ND who posted this pic regarding striations.

Ready SUCKY? 1...2...3...DUH!

[NarcissisticDeity]

Re: Scott you've only reiterated what i'd already said.

As far as fixes, Columbu's wins were clear & obvious cases, there were others. I'm not wasting any time on this, it was as clear as day. Some of the extremely questionable results between the late 70s and early 80s led basically to most of the top pros leaving the IFBB or retiring. Nuff said.

See when one anaylizes your theory it falls apart rather quickly , you made the claim that the Weiders handpicked Arnold and screwed Sergio . how you think a Austrian farm-boy with a heavy German accent was more marketable than an already establised multiple Mr Olympia winner and why ever allow Sergio to win the title at all? when the Weiders could have chose the All-American blonde haied blue eyed Dave Draper who was hugely popular in the 60s , surely he was more marketable than an uneducated Cuban refugee with a heavy Spanish accent , or how about Chuck Sipes ?

How marketable was a Gay African-American in 1982? when they could have had the hugely popular Tom Platz or let Frank Zane win who was already an established Mr Olympia win who was surely more marketable than Dickerson , why wouldn't they ' allow ' Strydom to beat Haney ? surely he was more marktable an in 1990 they could have ended Haney's regin with perhaps the most marketable guy who can get , Lee Labrada and articulate , good looking , had a egineering degree for christs sake , why ever allow the homely Englishmen to win? they could have went with Labrada , Shawn Ray articulate , handsome , young , etc , why ever let Coleman win? Flex was hugely popular and the heir apparent to Yates , surely if it was all a fix they would have went with Flex and why not choose Cutler in 01?

The more you look at your story the more it looks foolish and not every well thought out , now I don't agree with every contest winner but to say its fixed is really reaching .

[NarcissisticDeity]

SUCKMYASSHOLE effortlessly walks into an unopened door once again..your hero ND posted this pic suggesting "striations". SUCKY really does seem cognitively challenged in being utterly unable to grasp that it was in fact his leader ND who posted this pic regarding striations.

Ready SUCKY? 1...2...3...DUH!

No I posted that picture and and said his chest is littered with striations this is plainly evident and you cannot deny it , why you go on the way you do is retarded .

[FREAKgeek]

Utter trivia, a complete aside from the central point which you've done nothing to assail. His placing in '79 matters only to Scott groupies.

Quit the back peddling bullshit. I wasn't even replying to your posts dude. There is complete relevance.

[suckmymuscle]

SUCKMYASSHOLE effortlessly walks into an unopened door once again..your hero ND posted this pic suggesting "striations". SUCKY really does seem cognitively challenged in being utterly unable to grasp that it was in fact his leader ND who posted this pic regarding striations.

Ready SUCKY? 1...2...3...DUH!

  UGH!!! YOU REALLY ARE DUMB!!!! DID YOU READ WHAT I WROTE, DUMBASS? I KNOW HE POSTED THE PIC, YOU IDIOT! AND HE'S RIGHT! MY POINT IS THAT HIS CHEST IS FILLED WITH STRIATIONS! THOSE LINES CROSSING HIS CHEST FROM SIDE TO SIDE ARE STRIATIONS, YOU IDIOT SON OF A CUN T!!!! I WAS TEACHING YOU A LESSON IN BODYBUILDING, EXPLAINING TO YOU WHAT STRIATIONS MEAN, BUT YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!!!

SUCKMYMUSCLE