Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[corinth]

I know I'm new to this and I know I'm probably going to regret jumping into this but if you can look at these pictures and honestly say that this isn't the best physique ever displayed on a bodybuilding stage then we must  have very different opinions on what bodybuilding really is.

[pumpster]

Ronnie has a HUGE size advantage , if you're referring to triceps size that a moot point because Dorian's overall balance & proportion stop any size advantage Ronnie has

The long head of the triceps is almost hidden on the side tri shot, which is why overhead shots are necessary to show the inner part of the arm, which happens to be the largest part of the triceps. SUCKY doesn't get this. It's the part in which Yates is deficient-it's barely even in balance with his bis which are obviously small themselves. Coleman has a huge size advantage here, and also they're not terribly out of balance with his bis.

That is why Yates' tris look so small in overhead shots. With his arms down, the great cuts he has on the medial and lateral heads makes it easy to forget the deficiency elsewhere.

[NarcissisticDeity]

This is supposedly Yates' good shot because it plays to the areas of his triceps that are actually developed, yet Coleman's right there WITH A HUGE SIZE ADVANTAGE..

SUCKY BECAUSE YOU ARE MENTALLY CHALLENGED..YATES MEDIAL AND LATERAL TRI HEADS ARE EXCELLENT, BUT NOT THE LONG HEAD AT THE BACK OF THE ARM-VERY LITTLE SIZE THERE COMPARED TO THE LOAVES OF BREAD HANGING OFF THE BACK OF COLEMAN'S ARMS. (REMEMBER SUCKY AND ND-YATES' TRIS ARE ONLY GOOD ON THE SIZED, NOT THE BACK).

pumpster Ronnie may have an advantage in the rear head of the tricep yet he still fails to match Dorian in the medial & lateral heads and still fails to match Dorian from head to toe , notice how Ronnie does NOT put his leg forward like Dorian out of fear of those twigs being seen? pumpster Ronnie lacks Dorian's density , balance & proportion , and dryness .

break it down from calves up Ronnie has none to speak of and they don't match his quads thats bad lower proportion , his quads look excellent from the side but the discrepency with the calves is blatant . his abdominals aren't clearly defined or as evident as Dorians and neither are his obliques & serattus , his chest looks great as well as does his delts . but get to his arms and this is where his upperbody lack of balance & proportion can be seen in this pose. his biceps/triceps make his forearms look like twigs , the side head of his tricep is very thin and his rear head while huge leaves a giant gap between the side head , Dorian's side head is clearly defined & has better seperation than Ronnies . so while his triceps/biceps are clearly bigger than Dorian's his side tricep pose as a whole suffers overall because of his lack of balance . factor in Dorian's superior conditioning vs 99 Ron and his size advantage in 98 , and there is no way in hell Ronnie Coleman would beat Dorian Yates in the side tricep pose .

[NarcissisticDeity]

I know I'm new to this and I know I'm probably going to regret jumping into this but if you can look at these pictures and honestly say that this isn't the best physique ever displayed on a bodybuilding stage then we must be have very different opinions on what bodybuilding really is.

Hey join the party lol you're certainly entitled to your opinion and I disagree with it , however Ronnie looks fantastic in those shots you posted.

[pumpster]

pumpster Ronnie may have an advantage in the rear head of the tricep yet he still fails to match Dorian in the medial & lateral heads and still fails to match Dorian from head to toe .

Because of his triceps size advantage, all he has to do is be decent/close on the side shots for him to have an advantage. He's not that far off on the side-tris, thus he does in fact have an  overall advantage on tris if the judge is paying attention.

Ronnie lacks Dorian's density , balance & proportion , and dryness .

I've always said Yates had unusually good density, dryness and detail-other than Robby Robinson I can't think of anyone better. And Coleman's relative weaknesses are exactly those areas-he never seems extremely dry even when cut to shreds! But Coleman wins on most of the other criteria such as size, taper, aesthetics, overall cuts (overall, not just certain areas), vascularity, etc.


Balance: Coleman made a mistake years ago by not cutting out heavy squats and leg presses and instead trying to refine his thighs, bring them down in size while focusing more on calves. No idea why he didn't do this but he should have.

On the other hand, Yates' arms are always too small for the torso!


Coleman's medial & lateral tri cuts are good-not quite at Yates level of sharpness, but close.

[corinth]

ND, if I may call you that, I think you'll find that I agree with you on a lot of what you have to say, but, and I'll admit I haven't waded through every page of this post, I think the mistake that many of the "Dorian" supporters are making is making this a "body part contest" instead of a "bodybuilding" contest. I'll be the first to admit that Dorian, who I'm a huge fan of, beats Ronnie thoroughly in several body parts, and in certain areas of conditioning. But I think any honest assessment of their complete "bodies" ends with Ronnie being victorious. He simply has the best "body" of any bodybuilder ever. He's absolutely complete (OK, his calves are a little lagging), balanced, (I think he beats Dorian here, Dorians's quads are a little overpowered by his upper body and his calves), symmetrical (you can't say that about Dorian after 94 bicep tear) and Ronnie's body just has a better flow and look to it. Dorian no doubt can come in dry and he has that onion skin, but I don't think his advantage here overcomes mass and better shape. I think sometimes we get caught up staring at each individual tree and don't just step back and look at the forrest. Dorian has certain trees that look better than Ronnie's, but when you just step back and look at each man at his best, I believe Ronnie is the clear winner.

[suckmymuscle]

As opposed to your continued babbling using the wrong terms? If you can't make clear WTF you're talking about how is this reasoned or logical discourse genius?



1/None of the pics posted over and over again agree with your silliness-Coleman's side-tris is right there with Yates.

2/ Coleman's triceps are much bigger, which you still don't comprehend because of your ignorance of physiology. Even your master ND has said that, leaving you looking like a dink who doesn't know what he's talking about!

3/ Discussing Coleman's triceps while at the same time saying that Coleman's got an imbalance between bis and tris is mixing 2 different issues, you dumbass!




You are the only one on the planet that i'm aware of that would rely on only one shot to judge any particular muscle-you look at it from many angles turd-boy! The side-tri is the most obvious one, so even a dimwit like you understands that but then doesn't understand the importance of other shots to get different angles. 1...2...3...DUH!

  Ok, I don't have the patience to ague with you - because you're not worth it. Continue to believe whatever you want. The bottom line is that Dorian wins an entire mandatory exclusively because of his triceps - and calves. The inner head of the triceps is not apparent in most poses and represents a small percentage of the triceps' mass. All things considered, Dorian has superior triceps when compared to Ronnie, in the same way Ronnie has better overrall biceps. As for overhead shots, I'm assuming it means shots of the arms flexing. This would be relevant where? Well, maybe on the front double biceps, but that's it. Everywhere else where the triceps are relevant, from the side triceps shot to the relaxed round of a contest, Dorian's triceps are flat out superior to Ronnie's. You and the guy who owns your pooper, Huckster, don't admit it 'cause your self-entitled "Colemaniacs". You're so biased that you won't even give Dorian a mandatory that even an Olympia judge said Dorian had the best ever.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[pumpster]

SUCKY WILL RETURN TO LATE-NITE LURKING. IN THE MEANTIME..



CHECK BACK WITH YOUR MASTER ND AND THEN WE'LL CONTINUE..

[NarcissisticDeity]

Because of his triceps size advantage, all he has to do is be decent/close on the side shots for him to have an advantage. He's not that far off on the side-tris, thus he does in fact have an  overall advantage on tris if the judge is paying attention.


I've always said Yates had unusually good density, dryness and detail-other than Robby Robinson I can't think of anyone better. And Coleman's relative weaknesses are exactly those areas-he never seems extremely dry even when cut to shreds! But Coleman wins on most of the other criteria such as size, taper, aesthetics, overall cuts (overall, not just certain areas), vascularity, etc.


Balance: Coleman made a mistake years ago by not cutting out heavy squats and leg presses and instead trying to refine his thighs, bring them down in size while focusing more on calves. No idea why he didn't do this but he should have.

On the other hand, Yates' arms are always too small for the torso!


Coleman's medial & lateral tri cuts are good-not quite at Yates level of sharpness, but close.

I'm sorry pumpster but he needs more than an assumed advantage in triceps to beat Dorian in this pose  , and his advantage in the triceps is size and rear head? his side head can't compete in terms of seperation & shape . Dorian has the advanatge in his entire lower legs which include tibialis anterior , gastrocnemius inner & outter head and the soleus , Ronnie cannot compete with Dorian in terms of size , shape , seperation and balance in his lower legs and thats a MASSIVE disadvantage right out the gate .

Quads in terms of development a push , while you can argue that Ronnie has the edge is terms of upper quad devlopment that cannot be seen from the side the same with leg biceps and any size advantage Ronnie has in quad size is negated by his lack of overall leg balance & proportion.

Moving up toward the midsection in this shot Dorian has the edge because his abdominals are clearly defined and his external obliques are shredded and serattus anterior is visable and Ronnie's is not

Arms , Ronnie has the edge in terms of biceps and overall triceps size but his forearms lack size in relation and this compromises his whole arm balance , Dorian's side head of his is better in terms of shape & seperation , while Ronnie has the advantage in rear head , its a moot point because bigger rear head and bigger triceps overall can't compensate for his other flaws

Delts in the side triceps are a push both are huge and developed & the same can be said for the chests , Ronnie's appears slightly thicker but not so much as to save him from Dorian's overall dominence in this pose

Now add up Dorian's other factors his conditioning is legendary , maybe Ronnie matched him in 98 but he was ligher than Dorian by 8 pounds and his conditioning wasn't on par with his 98 version in 99 so while he would weigh the same as Dorian in 99 that would be negated by the aboved mentioned plus superior conditioning, factor in Dorian's superior muscle desnity at the same weight and there is onbviously no way in hell Ronnie from 98/99 can match Dorian 1993 in the side tricep shot , its just impossible , all of Dorian's advantages are unbeatable .

[JamieX4200]

[WOOO]

ronnie is the greatest BBer of all time.... period...

[Hulkster]

ND, if I may call you that, I think you'll find that I agree with you on a lot of what you have to say, but, and I'll admit I haven't waded through every page of this post, I think the mistake that many of the "Dorian" supporters are making is making this a "body part contest" instead of a "bodybuilding" contest. I'll be the first to admit that Dorian, who I'm a huge fan of, beats Ronnie thoroughly in several body parts, and in certain areas of conditioning. But I think any honest assessment of their complete "bodies" ends with Ronnie being victorious. He simply has the best "body" of any bodybuilder ever. He's absolutely complete (OK, his calves are a little lagging), balanced, (I think he beats Dorian here, Dorians's quads are a little overpowered by his upper body and his calves), symmetrical (you can't say that about Dorian after 94 bicep tear) and Ronnie's body just has a better flow and look to it. Dorian no doubt can come in dry and he has that onion skin, but I don't think his advantage here overcomes mass and better shape. I think sometimes we get caught up staring at each individual tree and don't just step back and look at the forrest. Dorian has certain trees that look better than Ronnie's, but when you just step back and look at each man at his best, I believe Ronnie is the clear winner.

Great Post!



your comments are validated in the many pics and videos that the Dorian cum swallowers ignore

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND, if I may call you that, I think you'll find that I agree with you on a lot of what you have to say, but, and I'll admit I haven't waded through every page of this post, I think the mistake that many of the "Dorian" supporters are making is making this a "body part contest" instead of a "bodybuilding" contest. I'll be the first to admit that Dorian, who I'm a huge fan of, beats Ronnie thoroughly in several body parts, and in certain areas of conditioning. But I think any honest assessment of their complete "bodies" ends with Ronnie being victorious. He simply has the best "body" of any bodybuilder ever. He's absolutely complete (OK, his calves are a little lagging), balanced, (I think he beats Dorian here, Dorians's quads are a little overpowered by his upper body and his calves), symmetrical (you can't say that about Dorian after 94 bicep tear) and Ronnie's body just has a better flow and look to it. Dorian no doubt can come in dry and he has that onion skin, but I don't think his advantage here overcomes mass and better shape. I think sometimes we get caught up staring at each individual tree and don't just step back and look at the forrest. Dorian has certain trees that look better than Ronnie's, but when you just step back and look at each man at his best, I believe Ronnie is the clear winner.

For you to say he has the best body of of any bodybuilder ever is an opinion your opinion and bodybuilding is WAY WAY to subjective for there to ever be declared one single body that beats every other in history , while you may feel that way certainly not everyone agrees with you , I personally think Flex Wheeler at the 93 ASC looks much better than anything Ronnie ( or Dorian ) ever presented and I also feel Samir Bannout in 83 was just about as perfect as one can be , then you have to put things into prospective I think Steve Reeves is the greatest bodybuilder ever for a host reasons other than his phsyique and don't forget Arnold

I disagree with Ronnie being complete and his calves are a little more than lagging which brings us to balance , he's balance is certainly not as good as Dorians , his calves are to small his quads are to big , his glutes stick out past his hips and can seen from the front , his biceps/triceps are to big for his forearms I know a lot of people tend to overlook this but it effects balance , his delts when veiwed from the back look smaller than his biceps/triceps this all together equals balance that leaves a lot to be desired especially compared to Dorian

Shape ,onnie does have some better shaped muscles no question about it , his biceps , his quads  but so does Dorian better calves , abdominals , forearms , so in essence if you can find a better shaped muscle on Ronnie most likely I can counter with one for Dorian and the judges would have the final say in who is better overall

Size , Ronnie at the 98 Olympia enjoyed no size advantage on Dorian 93 and in 99 he was the same weight but not as dry or dense as Dorian so thats a moot point .

your opinion may be very clear to you and you may feel you're 100% correct you have to entertain the possibility you may be wrong and I have , I think if they met at their best the judges may like Ronnies overall package better than Dorian but maybe Dorian would win based on his qualities either way I think it would be a great and classic battle and a LOT closer than what the Coleman fans like to think , either way neither of us are right or wrong because in the end its just our opinions .

[Hulkster]

Arms , Ronnie has the edge in terms of biceps and overall triceps size but his forearms lack size in relation and this compromises his whole arm balance , Dorian's side head of his is better in terms of shape & seperation , while Ronnie has the advantage in rear head , its a moot point because bigger rear head and bigger triceps overall can't compensate for his other flaws

again, the words...



do not in any way match up to reality.

[Hulkster]

Shape ,onnie does have some better shaped muscles no question about it , his biceps , his quads  but so does Dorian better calves , abdominals , forearms , so in essence if you can find a better shaped muscle on Ronnie most likely I can counter with one for Dorian and the judges would have the final say in who is better overall

ah, but ND - you are doing EXACTLY what he says you are doing.

You are looking at the shape of individual body parts without stepping back and looking at overall shape (eg. of the whole body or the arms, rather than the individual muscles of the arms)

When you do that, you see that Ronnie kills dorian:



no amount of endless banter can get you around this one..

[NarcissisticDeity]

again, the words...



do not in any way match up to reality.

That was in terms of side triceps shot which Ronnie absolutely cannot beat Dorian in not some hands clasped most muscular and what apparent in the picture you posted is Ronnie's overall lack of balance its plainly evident , look at his delts in that particular shot they're the same size as his chest that is poor balance look at his biceps/triceps they make his forearms look small that is poor balance look at his quads they make his calves look tiny that is poor balance you will never be able to escape this major & glaring flaw

And look at the pic you're using to show Ronnie's domination in relation to Dorian in that pic . Dorian's delts do not make his chest look small like Ronnies , his forearms aren't out of whack with his biceps/triceps his calves are in perfect harmony with his quads , unlike Ronnie who looks like he's standing on twigs . In terms of size compared to the picture you posted of Dorian Ronnie has the edge in terms of conditioning it may be a push , in terms of balance NO CONTEST Yates has him covered , now compared to Dorian at 257lbs , Ronnie doesn't enjoy a size advantage or a density advantage and certainly not a balance advantage , so while you think that shots so amazing it showcases Ronnies lack of balance & proportion well actually every pose show cases that lol

[NarcissisticDeity]

ah, but ND - you are doing EXACTLY what he says you are doing.

You are looking at the shape of individual body parts without stepping back and looking at overall shape (eg. of the whole body or the arms, rather than the individual muscles of the arms)

When you do that, you see that Ronnie kills dorian:


no amount of endless banter can get you around this one..

No its you who can never escape Ronnie's lack of balance & proportion  and its been me who has been pointing out from page one that you can pick apart Dorian's phsyique all you want and declare all of Ronnie's superior parts but they don't add uop to the superior whole , I've always maintained this and always will , because this is a very strong advantage that Dorian has that Ronnie doesn't and the judges are always looking for it in every single mandatory pose and this is the exact same reason why Dorian simply looks better in most of the mandatory poses .

[corinth]

For you to say he has the best body of of any bodybuilder ever is an opinion your opinion and bodybuilding is WAY WAY to subjective for there to ever be declared one single body that beats every other in history , while you may feel that way certainly not everyone agrees with you , I personally think Flex Wheeler at the 93 ASC looks much better than anything Ronnie ( or Dorian ) ever presented and I also feel Samir Bannout in 83 was just about as perfect as one can be , then you have to put things into prospective I think Steve Reeves is the greatest bodybuilder ever for a host reasons other than his phsyique and don't forget Arnold

I disagree with Ronnie being complete and his calves are a little more than lagging which brings us to balance , he's balance is certainly not as good as Dorians , his calves are to small his quads are to big , his glutes stick out past his hips and can seen from the front , his biceps/triceps are to big for his forearms I know a lot of people tend to overlook this but it effects balance , his delts when veiwed from the back look smaller than his biceps/triceps this all together equals balance that leaves a lot to be desired especially compared to Dorian

Shape ,onnie does have some better shaped muscles no question about it , his biceps , his quads  but so does Dorian better calves , abdominals , forearms , so in essence if you can find a better shaped muscle on Ronnie most likely I can counter with one for Dorian and the judges would have the final say in who is better overall

Size , Ronnie at the 98 Olympia enjoyed no size advantage on Dorian 93 and in 99 he was the same weight but not as dry or dense as Dorian so thats a moot point .

your opinion may be very clear to you and you may feel you're 100% correct you have to entertain the possibility you may be wrong and I have , I think if they met at their best the judges may like Ronnies overall package better than Dorian but maybe Dorian would win based on his qualities either way I think it would be a great and classic battle and a LOT closer than what the Coleman fans like to think , either way neither of us are right or wrong because in the end its just our opinions .

ND, I'm going to start this post the same way I started my last one by admitting you and I have a lot in common. I share your opinion that 93 Flex is in my opinion what I would want to look like and I'm also old enough to have my friends look at me like I was crazy whenever the topic of bodybuilders we'd like to look like came up and my answer was Bannout.  But I just have to disagree with you when it comes to Yates vs Coleman. You've definitely put a lot more thought and analysis into this than I have, but I think in doing so that is where you're making your mistake, with all due respect. To point out that you can see Ronnie's glutes in his front poses is definitely paying attention to detail, but to honestly be able to look at both men's arms and not be able to admit that Ronnie's are clearly superior makes me wonder exactly how we are judging these two men. I'm sure you're probably right that a certain head of Dorian's triceps looks better than Ronnie's, but is that what this is really about? When you look at both men, from head to toe, in their respecitve top shape, I simply believe that most people, as well as most judges would have to give the nod to Ronnie. He's not perfect, even Flex 93 wasn't perfect, his calves were a little suspect, but we won't get into that here, and his abs definitely have a unique shape to them, but neither of those "flaws" compare to the major flaw Dorian has attached to his left shoulder. And I say that with all due respect to Dorian. We're not saying who's perfect, or who has the best "bodyparts". I believe, and you said as much yourself, that if Ronnie and Dorian competed at their best, Ronnie would probably win. I would go so far as to say that if you added 93 Flex, 83 Bannout into the mix the results would be the same. Flex and Bannout would just be too small to compete with Dorian and Ronnie, even with their respective flaws. And isn't that what this is all about. Who would win a "bodybuilding" contest with each man at his best? I have to believe that Ronnie (admittedly not perfect) would win, convincingly, and I may be wrong, but hasn't Dorian himself admitted as much? When I say that Ronnie has the best body ever, I'm not saying he's perfect, or that I would even want to look like that myself. What I'm saying is that if you gathered all the top bodybuilders together at their respective bests, Ronnie would win, all this bodypart, balance stuff aside. And that makes him the best bodybuilder ever.

[Hulkster]

ND, I'm going to start this post the same way I started my last one by admitting you and I have a lot in common. I share your opinion that 93 Flex is in my opinion what I would want to look like and I'm also old enough to have my friends look at me like I was crazy whenever the topic of bodybuilders we'd like to look like came up and my answer was Bannout.  But I just have to disagree with you when it comes to Yates vs Coleman. You've definitely put a lot more thought and analysis into this than I have, but I think in doing so that is where you're making your mistake, with all due respect. To point out that you can see Ronnie's gluts in his front poses is definitely paying attention to detail, but to honestly be able to look at both men's arms and not be able to admit that Ronnie's are clearly superior makes me wonder exactly how we are judging these two men. I'm sure you're probably right that a certain head of Dorian's triceps looks better than Ronnie's, but is that what this is really about? When you look at both men, from head to toe, in their respecitve top shape, I simply believe that most people, as well as most judges would have to give the nod to Ronnie. He's not perfect, even Flex 93 wasn't perfect, his calves were a little suspect, but we won't get into that here, and his abs definitely have a unique shape to them, but neither of those "flaws" compare to the major flaw Dorian has attached to his left shoulder. And I say that with all due respect to Dorian. We're not saying who's perfect, or who has the best "bodyparts". I believe, and you said as much yourself, that if Ronnie and Dorian competed at their best, Ronnie would probably win. I would go so far as to say that if you added 93 Flex, 83 Bannout into the mix the results would be the same. Flex and Bannout would just be too small to compete with Dorian and Ronnie, even with their respective flaws. And isn't that what this is all about. Who would win a "bodybuilding" contest with each man at his best? I have to believe that Ronnie (admittedly not perfect) would win, convincingly, and I may be wrong, but hasn't Dorian himself admitted as much? When I say that Ronnie has the best body ever, I'm not saying he's perfect, or that I would even want to look like that myself. What I'm saying is that if you gathered all the top bodybuilders together at their respective bests, Ronnie would win, all this bodypart, balance stuff aside. And that makes him the best bodybuilder ever.

ND gets owned by a newbie. awesome

ND - how many people are going to have to tell you the same thing over and over before you will believe it?

You are not looking at "ronnie vs. dorian" using normal judging standards.

I have been saying this from the begining..

You focus in on a particular triceps head or forearms and yet fail to look at the whole arm.  The same can be said about how you view the entire body - you don't.

You focus in on specific local areas without bothering to step back and look at the whole picture:



when you do this, as any judge would do, even Dorian's "ace in the hole" shots like the  front lat spread become inferior to Ronnie's complete head to toe development and detail.

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND, I'm going to start this post the same way I started my last one by admitting you and I have a lot in common. I share your opinion that 93 Flex is in my opinion what I would want to look like and I'm also old enough to have my friends look at me like I was crazy whenever the topic of bodybuilders we'd like to look like came up and my answer was Bannout.  But I just have to disagree with you when it comes to Yates vs Coleman. You've definitely put a lot more thought and analysis into this than I have, but I think in doing so that is where you're making your mistake, with all due respect. To point out that you can see Ronnie's gluts in his front poses is definitely paying attention to detail, but to honestly be able to look at both men's arms and not be able to admit that Ronnie's are clearly superior makes me wonder exactly how we are judging these two men. I'm sure you're probably right that a certain head of Dorian's triceps looks better than Ronnie's, but is that what this is really about? When you look at both men, from head to toe, in their respecitve top shape, I simply believe that most people, as well as most judges would have to give the nod to Ronnie. He's not perfect, even Flex 93 wasn't perfect, his calves were a little suspect, but we won't get into that here, and his abs definitely have a unique shape to them, but neither of those "flaws" compare to the major flaw Dorian has attached to his left shoulder. And I say that with all due respect to Dorian. We're not saying who's perfect, or who has the best "bodyparts". I believe, and you said as much yourself, that if Ronnie and Dorian competed at their best, Ronnie would probably win. I would go so far as to say that if you added 93 Flex, 83 Bannout into the mix the results would be the same. Flex and Bannout would just be too small to compete with Dorian and Ronnie, even with their respective flaws. And isn't that what this is all about. Who would win a "bodybuilding" contest with each man at his best? I have to believe that Ronnie (admittedly not perfect) would win, convincingly, and I may be wrong, but hasn't Dorian himself admitted as much? When I say that Ronnie has the best body ever, I'm not saying he's perfect, or that I would even want to look like that myself. What I'm saying is that if you gathered all the top bodybuilders together at their respective bests, Ronnie would win, all this bodypart, balance stuff aside. And that makes him the best bodybuilder ever.

Its not a matter of who I would rather look like I wouldn't want to look like Dorian by any stretch of the imagination or Ronnie , I would rather look like Samir 83 or Steve Reeves but I think in terms of judging based on their respective bests Dorian's best would be it slightly or not so slightly be to much for Ronnie to overcome , I think it would be very close with Dorian just edging out Ronnie , now I can go into lenght ( and have ) but lets simplify this what would the judges go for Dorian's density , dryness and balance or Ronnie's shape , size and detail? I don't know and neither do you , but its MY OPINION that according to the judging criteria they would go with Dorian , lets say Dorian wins the muscularity round based on his density and Ronnie wins the symmetry round based on his ' shape ' that leaves the posing rounds and in my opinion Dorian is the better poser of the two and would egde out Ronnie here , its all speculation anyway but I feel I've reached my conclusion objectively , intelligently and honestly , hence why I can say it may be close and Ronnie may win but the possiblity exists he may lose as well , the other side likes to pretend Dorian wouldn't stand a chance in hell which is wishfull thinking when all things are considered , but in the end the judges would have the final say not some internet-fans ( myself included )

[Palpatine Q]

but neither of those "flaws" compare to the major flaw Dorian has attached to his left shoulder.

I love how Dorian nuthuggers like to gloss over the fact he had A SEVERELY TORN BICEP for most of his "O" wins. If he would have suffered that injury BEFORE his first Olympia we wouldn't be having this discussion because he would have never won.

[NeoSeminole]

Corinth, you are absolutely right!

Front Double Biceps



Ronnie >>> Dorian

Front Lat Spread



Tie

Side Triceps



Dorian >>> Ronnie

Side Chest



Ronnie >>> Dorian

Rear Double Biceps



Ronnie >>> Dorian

Rear Lat Spread



Ronnie >>> Dorian

Abs and Thighs



Dorian >>> Ronnie

Most Muscular



Ronnie >>> Dorian

Dorian: 2
Ronnie: 5

If both men competed head-to-head at their respective best, Ronnie would win.

[nicorulez]

ND, you have your opinion, but in no way in hell is Dorian ever going to out-muscle Ronnie.  Ronnie in 1998/1999/2003/2005 would overwhelm Dorian from a muscularity perspective.  Yate's best chance would be symmetry if you compared him in 1993 to a latter Ronnie.  However, Ronnie has no glaring weakness.  Regardless what you say, his gut is not bad when posing.  That is all the judges care about.  Not what it looks like in mid-pose or transition.  Dorian was great, but Ronnie is better.  Dorian 1993 was better than Haney 1991.  Nobody really knows who would have won, but by traditional judging criteria in a fair contest I do not see Dorian winning.  His weaknesses overshadow his strengths.  Regardless, I agree it is a debate and nobody is correct as it is all speculation. Believe what you will, but I believe you are completely wrong. 

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND gets owned by a newbie. awesome

ND - how many people are going to have to tell you the same thing over and over before you will believe it?

You are not looking at "ronnie vs. dorian" using normal judging standards.

I have been saying this from the begining..

You focus in on a particular triceps head or forearms and yet fail to look at the whole arm.  The same can be said about how you view the entire body - you don't.

You focus in on specific local areas without bothering to step back and look at the whole picture:



when you do this, as any judge would do, even Dorian's "ace in the hole" shots like the  front lat spread become inferior to Ronnie's complete head to toe development and detail.

One you never knew the judging standard until I posted them   and following the judging criteria thats how I came to the conclusion Dorian simply looks better in most of the mandatory poses and I also used that in conjuction with my indepth critique to point out exactly why & how Ronnie can't compete with Dorian in terms of balance & proportion and you claim I fixate on a certain part of the triceps & forearm and neglect the entire arm that my friend is NONSENSE I clearly take into consideration EVERY part to come to the conclusion Ronnie is lacking in balance & proportion and pointed out in detail exactly why .

Ronnie can compete with Dorian in terms of muscle size at their best , but NOT density , Ronnie can compete with Dorian in terms of conditioning at 249lbs but NOT at 257lbs , Ronnie can compete with Dorian in terms of muscle shape ,  however Ronnie cannot and has never ever been able to compete with Dorian in terms of muscle balance & proportion at any weight this is NOT debateable , this is where you will always fail because you cannot escape this , in every single mandatory pose Ronnie's imbalance is evident and Dorian's is NOT this is why & how he would beat Ronnie and beat pleanty of other guys who on paper had better parts than him , the sum of his whole was to much to overcome .

[corinth]

Its not a matter of who I would rather look like I wouldn't want to look like Dorian by any stretch of the imagination or Ronnie , I would rather look like Samir 83 or Steve Reeves but I think in terms of judging based on their respective bests Dorian's best would be it slightly or not so slightly be to much for Ronnie to overcome , I think it would be very close with Dorian just edging out Ronnie , now I can go into lenght ( and have ) but lets simplify this what would the judges go for Dorian's density , dryness and balance or Ronnie's shape , size and detail? I don't know and neither do you , but its MY OPINION that according to the judging criteria they would go with Dorian , lets say Dorian wins the muscularity round based on his density and Ronnie wins the symmetry round based on his ' shape ' that leaves the posing rounds and in my opinion Dorian is the better poser of the two and would egde out Ronnie here , its all speculation anyway but I feel I've reached my conclusion objectively , intelligently and honestly , hence why I can say it may be close and Ronnie may win but the possiblity exists he may lose as well , the other side likes to pretend Dorian wouldn't stand a chance in hell which is wishfull thinking when all things are considered , but in the end the judges would have the final say not some internet-fans ( myself included )

I agree with you again ND in that I wouldn't want to look like either of these men. But as a bodybuilding fan it is interesting to discuss a matchup of two of the best at their best. I hate to side with all the Coleman Kool -Aid drinkers, but on this one I  have to. I honestly just don't see Dorian beating Ronnie unless Ronnie just really came in off. I have no doubt Dorian would come in huge, dry and ready for battle, but I just don't think his best package could beat Ronnie's combination of size and shape. Quite simply, in my opinion, at each of their best, Ronnie just looks "better." I know you are going to say that's my opinion, but I think it would also be the judges opinion 8 out of 10 times if the dream matchup ever took place. By the way, what do you consider Dorian's best? And what do you consider Ronnie's best?