Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[Hulkster]

Ronnie can compete with Dorian in terms of conditioning at 249lbs but NOT at 257lbs ,

yes he can. ronnie was even dryer at the 99 british grand prix show than he was at the olympia. And he certainly did not appear to be any smaller.

[suckmymuscle]

 Ok, I don't have the patience to ague with you - because you're not worth it. Continue to believe whatever you want. The bottom line is that Dorian wins an entire mandatory exclusively because of his triceps - and calves. The inner head of the triceps is not apparent in most poses and represents a small percentage of the triceps' mass. All things considered, Dorian has superior triceps when compared to Ronnie, in the same way Ronnie has better overrall biceps. As for overhead shots, I'm assuming it means shots of the arms flexing. This would be relevant where? Well, maybe on the front double biceps, but that's it. Everywhere else where the triceps are relevant, from the side triceps shot to the relaxed round of a contest, Dorian's triceps are flat out superior to Ronnie's. You and the guy who owns your pooper, Huckster, don't admit it 'cause your self-entitled "Colemaniacs". You're so biased that you won't even give Dorian a mandatory that even an Olympia judge said Dorian had the best ever.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

  Ok, Poop, in case you've missed it, here's my reply to you lame post.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[pumpster]

in case you've missed it, here's my reply to you lame post.

You get an "F" in your pathetic analysis. It is not for you to determine which poses are more important you fool.

The inner head of the triceps is not apparent in most poses and represents a small percentage of the triceps' mass.

You've got it ass-backwards, as usual. The inner head is the largest part of the triceps, and the area in which Coleman competely overwhelms Yates' puny arms.

Since you have trouble understanding, just stare at this pic for a minute. Absorb it. Coleman with arguably the best arms in BB history and Yates, with some of the worst arms of an Olympian on a torso that's too big for the arms.. Arms that are just too small for that barrel torso you dolt.

Coleman here overwhelming Yates..a massive show of dominances-bis, tris, etc.

[NeoSeminole]

How can ND and Suckmydick say Dorian looks better than Ronnie here?




Ronnie blows Dorian away with better arms, shoulders, chest, and legs. Once again, this leaves forearms and calves for Dorian. Stuff of legends 

[suckmymuscle]

You get an "F" in your pathetic analysis. It is not for you to determine which poses are more important you fool.

You've got it ass-backwards, as usual. The inner head is the largest part of the triceps, and the area in which Coleman competely overwhelms Yates' puny arms.

Since you have trouble understanding, just stare at this pic for a minute. Absorb it. Coleman with arguably the best arms in BB history and Yates, with some of the worst arms of an Olympian on a torso that's too big for the arms.. Arms that are just too small for that barrel torso you dolt.

Coleman here overwhelming Yates..a massive show of dominances-bis, tris, etc.

  No, it is Ronnie who gets an "F" in the major test where the triceps are examed: the side triceps shot. Ronnie's greater bulk means little, because he just can't overcome having a genetically short lateral triceps head. When you put his pathetic calves into the picture, it's game over for Ronnie. Dorian destroys Ronnie in shape, striations and hardness and yes, even size, because Ronnie's outer head is shorter. Ronnie just doesen't have a side triceps shot like this.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Tombo]

lock this fucking thread already

[pumpster]

Ronnie's greater bulk means little, because he just can't overcome having a genetically short lateral triceps head.

1/ So you've decided out of the blue that size isn't one of the key criteria in BB? Who the F--- are you? Size is one of the key criteria in case you've conveniently forgotten or don't want to accept it.

2/ The "short" head you keep babbling about-when is it going to occur to you that no one else sees this? Which means you're deluded!

3/ Sorry to clue you in finally-he's right there with your hero on cuts but with more size and better aesthetics! 

[benchthis]

bump for ronnie

[NarcissisticDeity]

I agree with you again ND in that I wouldn't want to look like either of these men. But as a bodybuilding fan it is interesting to discuss a matchup of two of the best at their best. I hate to side with all the Coleman Kool -Aid drinkers, but on this one I  have to. I honestly just don't see Dorian beating Ronnie unless Ronnie just really came in off. I have no doubt Dorian would come in huge, dry and ready for battle, but I just don't think his best package could beat Ronnie's combination of size and shape. Quite simply, in my opinion, at each of their best, Ronnie just looks "better." I know you are going to say that's my opinion, but I think it would also be the judges opinion 8 out of 10 times if the dream matchup ever took place. By the way, what do you consider Dorian's best? And what do you consider Ronnie's best?

 

A common mistake among Coleman fans is they personally like Ronnie's physique better , a lot of them can't even comprehend why he even won any contest let alone 15 out of 17 including 6 consectutive Mr Olympias.

In my opinion Ronnie's two best Mr Olympia showings were the 1998/1999 a lot of people feel 2003 is his best and if you look at pics of him at the forementioned Olympias I think its easy to see that Ronnie 03 doesn't compare well

If you look at Ronnie 98 he was fantastic but compared to 99 he looked less full but he was dryer in 98 , now I don't feel Ronnie in 98 could beat Dorian of 93 . Ronnie in 98 just barely beat Flex he only beat him by 3 points that has to be one of the closest Mr Olympia wins in history . Dorian dominated a much sharper Flex in 93 so if Ronnie could just barely beat Flex I think he would never be able to to overcome Dorian.

I honestly believe Ronnie's best chance at Dorian would be his shape from the 1999 Mr Olympia , 99 he looked amazing he was the same weight as Dorian 257lbs and appeared very full , but his conditioning was off from 1998 so the debate begins would Ronnie's 99 shape & fullness be able to beat Dorian's density & dryness and balance ? I personally don't think so.

Either years Ronnie didn't bring anything so new & dominating to the sport that Dorian would be so far behind in 2003 he did but I don't think thats his best condition but if Dorian met Ronnie 03 he may lose just based on the size advantage , they asked Dorian on PBW if Ronnie would beat him and he said it was a very hard question for him to answer but he thinks that the judges may go with him just based on his 20 pound weight advantage obviously I would like to know what he thinks on how he would fare against Ronnie 98/99

Ronnie never faced anyone of Dorian's caliber . he may have had a easy time with a past their prime Flex , Levrone , Dillett and Ray , but these are all guys Dorian routinely beat , Ronnie never faced anyone who could match or even surpass him in back department , I think its very foolish to think Ronnie from 98/99 would have a feild day with Dorian 93 anyone who says so is being unrealistic .

[NarcissisticDeity]

yes he can. ronnie was even dryer at the 99 british grand prix show than he was at the olympia. And he certainly did not appear to be any smaller.

Do you know for a fact he was 257lbs at that contest? and you put Ronnie 98/99 Olympia under that lighting[/u ]and he'll look just as good , the lighting was great at that show .

[corinth]

 

A common mistake among Coleman fans is they personally like Ronnie's physique better , a lot of them can't even comprehend why he even won any contest let alone 15 out of 17 including 6 consectutive Mr Olympias.

In my opinion Ronnie's two best Mr Olympia showings were the 1998/1999 a lot of people feel 2003 is his best and if you look at pics of him at the forementioned Olympias I think its easy to see that Ronnie 03 doesn't compare well

If you look at Ronnie 98 he was fantastic but compared to 99 he looked less full but he was dryer in 98 , now I don't feel Ronnie in 98 could beat Dorian of 93 . Ronnie in 98 just barely beat Flex he only beat him by 3 points that has to be one of the closest Mr Olympia wins in history . Dorian dominated a much sharper Flex in 93 so if Ronnie could just barely beat Flex I think he would never be able to to overcome Dorian.

I honestly believe Ronnie's best chance at Dorian would be his shape from the 1999 Mr Olympia , 99 he looked amazing he was the same weight as Dorian 257lbs and appeared very full , but his conditioning was off from 1998 so the debate begins would Ronnie's 99 shape & fullness be able to beat Dorian's density & dryness and balance ? I personally don't think so.

Either years Ronnie didn't bring anything so new & dominating to the sport that Dorian would be so far behind in 2003 he did but I don't think thats his best condition but if Dorian met Ronnie 03 he may lose just based on the size advantage , they asked Dorian on PBW if Ronnie would beat him and he said it was a very hard question for him to answer but he thinks that the judges may go with him just based on his 20 pound weight advantage obviously I would like to know what he thinks on how he would fare against Ronnie 98/99

Ronnie never faced anyone of Dorian's caliber . he may have had a easy time with a past their prime Flex , Levrone , Dillett and Ray , but these are all guys Dorian routinely beat , Ronnie never faced anyone who could match or even surpass him in back department , I think its very foolish to think Ronnie from 98/99 would have a feild day with Dorian 93 anyone who says so is being unrealistic .

It's quite obvious to me why Dorian was as successful as he was, and he was a great champion during a high point in bodybuilding, however, I do believe that Ronnie took what Dorian did so well and added the thing that most of us find most glaring in Dorian's physique. If you look at Dorian's physique, you certainly see size, density, and conditioning. When you look at Ronnie's physique you also see size, density, and conditioning. I'll admit that Dorian has the edge in density and conditioning, but I don't think he has such an advantage in those things that he's  able to overcome Ronnie's clear advantage in shape, detail, separation, and finish. While Dorian's physique looks unbelievably dense and hard, it just never had the finish, detail, and separation that Ronnie's has. You see it most clearly in Dorian's chest, shoulders, arms. His body just looks raw and unpolished compared to Ronnie's. When you add in that the advantage Dorian has in conditioning isn't that great, Ronnie brings shredded glutes to the contest, I don't see how Dorian can overcome Ronnie's size, shape, and polish. Honestly, when was the last time a contest was decided on density? It just doesn't happen. Contests these days are judged on size, shape, and aesthetics. I think a contest between 98 Ronnie and 93 Dorian would be a war, but I do think Ronnie's shape and detail would win in the end. I have to disagree with you on 03 Ronnie, I believe that is the standard. If you put 03 Ronnie against 93 Dorian the contest would be a convincing win for Ronnie, he's just way too much for Dorian and his superior conditioning  to ever beat.

[NarcissisticDeity]

It's quite obvious to me why Dorian was as successful as he was, and he was a great champion during a high point in bodybuilding, however, I do believe that Ronnie took what Dorian did so well and added the thing that most of us find most glaring in Dorian's physique. If you look at Dorian's physique, you certainly see size, density, and conditioning. When you look at Ronnie's physique you also see size, density, and conditioning. I'll admit that Dorian has the edge in density and conditioning, but I don't think he has such an advantage in those things that he's  able to overcome Ronnie's clear advantage in shape, detail, separation, and finish. While Dorian's physique looks unbelievably dense and hard, it just never had the finish, detail, and separation that Ronnie's has. You see it most clearly in Dorian's chest, shoulders, arms. His body just looks raw and unpolished compared to Ronnie's. When you add in that the advantage Dorian has in conditioning isn't that great, Ronnie brings shredded glutes to the contest, I don't see how Dorian can overcome Ronnie's size, shape, and polish. Honestly, when was the last time a contest was decided on density? It just doesn't happen. Contests these days are judged on size, shape, and aesthetics. I think a contest between 98 Ronnie and 93 Dorian would be a war, but I do think Ronnie's shape and detail would win in the end. I have to disagree with you on 03 Ronnie, I believe that is the standard. If you put 03 Ronnie against 93 Dorian the contest would be a convincing win for Ronnie, he's just way too much for Dorian and his superior conditioning  to ever beat.

You say Ronnie has the edge in shape & detail and thats true in some muscles but not in all

calves - Dorian has much better classic diamond shape & detail in his calves , Ronnie can't compete with Dorian on gastrocnemius outer & inner head , soleus or tibialis

midsection - Dorian has the better shaped abs he has a 6 pack compared to Ronnie's oddly shaped 4 pack , Dorian shows more detail in his intercostals , external obliques abd serratus anterior

triceps - Dorian has a better shapped medial & lateral head and Ronnie has the edge on the rear head and overall size , Ronnie has striations in his triceps but would this negate Dorian's shape advantage? I don't think so .

forearms - Dorian has better shaped forearms they insert low near the wrist and Ronnie's look like bowling pins huge , both have the same ammount of detail

back - Dorian has a better sweep to his lats and they appear to insert lower than Ronnies , not by much but it appears that way , Dorian has the edge in detail in his lats especially from behind and the same can be said about his eractor spinae , and the rest of the back in terms of detail & shape are about the same .

chest - Dorian's chest is higher than Ronnies but I don't think Ronnie has that much of an advantage on shape in the chest , if we were talking about Haney thats a different story , Ronnie in 98 had gyno so I think this would hurt him and in 99 I still think he had it in 99 , I do think Ronnie has a slight advantage on upper pec size , both have striations on their chests some Coleman fans claim he has more I feel thats grasping at straws

delts - Ronnie appears to have a little more roundness to the top of his delts I don't think its enough of a difference between the two to be that glaring both have pleanty of detail in their delts

quads - Ronnie has the better shape quads , better sweep and better detail & shape in his rectus femoris , and I would say he has the edge in vastus lateralis , while the vastus medialis is a push and Dorian has the edge in detail in his satorius , but overall Ronnie has better shape & detail in his quads

glutes - now Ronnie has the edge in detail but Dorian had striated glutes at 257lbs too but the shape is where Ronnie loses in my opinion , his glutes are gigantic and stick out past his hips and can be seen from the front , I think this negatively effects his balance

hams - Dorian had awesome hams , they were NOT as detailed as Ronnies in 2003 but Ronnies wern't as detail in 98/99 as they were in 03 either but I think Ronnie does have the slight edge in ham detail 98/99 vs Dorian 93 , as far as shape is concerned I would say thats a push .

Again I don't think Ronnie's shape & detail are that overwhelming sure he has an edge in some and so does Dorian , and Dorian's beat pleanty of guys with much better shape & detail then himself , Dorian doesn't have to beat other people at thier game or their strenghts all he has to do is be Dorian and 15 first places out of 17 contest including 6 consecutive Mr Olympias and his only two loses were both second places so I would say playing to his strenghts worked extremly well for him .

[corinth]

You say Ronnie has the edge in shape & detail and thats true in some muscles but not in all

calves - Dorian has much better classic diamond shape & detail in his calves , Ronnie can't compete with Dorian on gastrocnemius outer & inner head , soleus or tibialis

midsection - Dorian has the better shaped abs he has a 6 pack compared to Ronnie's oddly shaped 4 pack , Dorian shows more detail in his intercostals , external obliques abd serratus anterior

triceps - Dorian has a better shapped medial & lateral head and Ronnie has the edge on the rear head and overall size , Ronnie has striations in his triceps but would this negate Dorian's shape advantage? I don't think so .

forearms - Dorian has better shaped forearms they insert low near the wrist and Ronnie's look like bowling pins huge , both have the same ammount of detail

back - Dorian has a better sweep to his lats and they appear to insert lower than Ronnies , not by much but it appears that way , Dorian has the edge in detail in his lats especially from behind and the same can be said about his eractor spinae , and the rest of the back in terms of detail & shape are about the same .

chest - Dorian's chest is higher than Ronnies but I don't think Ronnie has that much of an advantage on shape in the chest , if we were talking about Haney thats a different story , Ronnie in 98 had gyno so I think this would hurt him and in 99 I still think he had it in 99 , I do think Ronnie has a slight advantage on upper pec size , both have striations on their chests some Coleman fans claim he has more I feel thats grasping at straws

delts - Ronnie appears to have a little more roundness to the top of his delts I don't think its enough of a difference between the two to be that glaring both have plenty of detail in their delts

quads - Ronnie has the better shape quads , better sweep and better detail & shape in his rectus femoris , and I would say he has the edge in vastus lateralis , while the vastus medialis is a push and Dorian has the edge in detail in his satorius , but overall Ronnie has better shape & detail in his quads

glutes - now Ronnie has the edge in detail but Dorian had striated glutes at 257lbs too but the shape is where Ronnie loses in my opinion , his glutes are gigantic and stick out past his hips and can be seen from the front , I think this negatively effects his balance

hams - Dorian had awesome hams , they were NOT as detailed as Ronnies in 2003 but Ronnies wern't as detail in 98/99 as they were in 03 either but I think Ronnie does have the slight edge in ham detail 98/99 vs Dorian 93 , as far as shape is concerned I would say thats a push .

Again I don't think Ronnie's shape & detail are that overwhelming sure he has an edge in some and so does Dorian , and Dorian's beat pleanty of guys with much better shape & detail then himself , Dorian doesn't have to beat other people at thier game or their strenghts all he has to do is be Dorian and 15 first places out of 17 contest including 6 consecutive Mr Olympias and his only two loses were both second places so I would say playing to his strenghts worked extremly well for him .

Ok, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on a lot of this. But I believe that is the point of this anyway. I'll give you that Dorian has Ronnie on calves, abs, and triceps. I find it odd that you didn't mention biceps, which I think you'd have to agree, is a huge advantage to Ronnie. You've obviously been working on this post a lot longer than I and have your argument down pat. I do think your answer brings us back to my original point about your argument being more about individual "body parts" than complete "bodies". We could argue forever about who has the best insertion point of their forearm muscle, but I do think that is the wrong path to take. We need to judge these men on their complete bodies and not make this an argument more based on the failed "challenge round" and not a bodybuilding contest. We're just going to have to disagree on whether or not Ronnie's shape, detail, separation, and lack of as major a flaw as Dorian's left arm would put him over the top in a head to head match up. I happen to believe that if they were standing side by side, at their respective bests, that Ronnie's physique would just look sharper, much more detailed and with better shape.  For what it's worth, I have a friend who has been the head judge of over 30 NPC bodybuilding contests, many national qualifiers, and he's been asked the Ronnie vs. Dorian question many times. As much as he would like to pick Dorian, one of his favorites, his answer is always the same: Ronnie is the best ever. Too much size, shape, and detail for Dorian to beat. He calls him the "perfect storm" of bodybuilding. Perfect genetics, strong work ethic, and the right supplements.  But the debate goes on...

[Hulkster]

While Dorian's physique looks unbelievably dense and hard, it just never had the finish, detail, and separation that Ronnie's has.

we have been trying to get this through ND's ironage desolate skull for ages now.

BOTH men have size. Both men are conditioned. Only one has great shape in the major bodyparts like arms chest and legs, and only one shows great striations everywhere. One has a great natural body shape, the other does not.

ND really has no clue.

[nicorulez]

ND's analysis......DELUSIONAL .  Please, to even compare glutes and chest of Dorian to Ronnie is a joke.  Better lat sweep.    That is absurd.  Ronnie's back looks like a cobra when he poses.  Dorian's wide waist does little to accentuate this pose.  Ronnie hams and thighs kill Dorian.  ND is either blind or so biased that he cannot see the obvious unless it came up and smacked him in the head.  He doesn't really get it; this is a bad comparison.  As Hulkster has stated a million times, the times they faced off was before Ronnie became "Ronnie" and the judging was always skewed for the top guys at that particular time...Dorian, Levrone, Ray, and Wheeler.  Once he hit his prime, it would have been a travesty if they continued to overlook him as they did in the beginning of pre-judging 1998.  IFBB judging is not the end all be all.  There are a lot of shows (even Ronnie 2001) where the result is debateable.  ND has no clue to this.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Ok, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on a lot of this. But I believe that is the point of this anyway. I'll give you that Dorian has Ronnie on calves, abs, and triceps. I find it odd that you didn't mention biceps, which I think you'd have to agree, is a huge advantage to Ronnie. You've obviously been working on this post a lot longer than I and have your argument down pat. I do think your answer brings us back to my original point about your argument being more about individual "body parts" than complete "bodies". We could argue forever about who has the best insertion point of their forearm muscle, but I do think that is the wrong path to take. We need to judge these men on their complete bodies and not make this an argument more based on the failed "challenge round" and not a bodybuilding contest. We're just going to have to disagree on whether or not Ronnie's shape, detail, separation, and lack of as major a flaw as Dorian's left arm would put him over the top in a head to head match up. I happen to believe that if they were standing side by side, at their respective bests, that Ronnie's physique would just look sharper, much more detailed and with better shape.  For what it's worth, I have a friend who has been the head judge of over 30 NPC bodybuilding contests, many national qualifiers, and he's been asked the Ronnie vs. Dorian question many times. As much as he would like to pick Dorian, one of his favorites, his answer is always the same: Ronnie is the best ever. Too much size, shape, and detail for Dorian to beat. He calls him the "perfect storm" of bodybuilding. Perfect genetics, strong work ethic, and the right supplements.  But the debate goes on...

I didn't mention biceps because lets faces its obvious . and if the assesment brings us back to complete bodies and this is where Dorians obvious advantage in muscle balance & proportion simply makes him look better in most of the mandatory poses , this is a major flaw that people tend to overlook in Ronnie . this allows Dorian to take more of the mandatory poses , you put them side by side and Ronnie's imbalance screams out at the judges

And your friend the NPC judge who says Ronnie would beat Dorian says Ronnie has to much size for him? not in 98 he didn't and 99 he was the same weight but neither versions could match Dorian for muscle density , I think side by side Dorian's , density , conditioning , balance & proportion coupled with his ability to properly pose to show off his physique to its maximum would rack-up more mandatory poses to edge out Ronnie for the win. I may be wrong...............howe ver I may be right .

[NarcissisticDeity]

we have been trying to get this through ND's ironage desolate skull for ages now.

BOTH men have size. Both men are conditioned. Only one has great shape in the major bodyparts like arms chest and legs, and only one shows great striations everywhere. One has a great natural body shape, the other does not.

ND really has no clue.

Hulkster you're very found of blanket statements , I just did an indepth description of how both have advantages in shape & detail and then you go spout that nonsense , Ronnie doesn't have great shape in his arms he has great shape in this biceps , rear head of the tricpes , not in the medial & lateral head of the triceps and his forearms aren't greatly shaped either , so to say he has in his arms simply isn't true

niether is your statement about legs at their prime Ronnie doesn't have better shapped hamstrings ( maybe a little more detailed but not better shaped ) his quads to have a better shape but the calves are included in your statement legsa dn he can't compete there either

chest ? please explain to he how Ronnie has a better chest I'm dying to hear this , cling to your fantasies that his greater ammount of striations makes his chest better , I think he has a slight edge in upper chest but even Ronnie Coleman said Dorian's side chest shot was the best he seen and how the hell can you have a great sidechest shot without a great chest? you think Dorian's chest is like Titus or Mentzer?  Ronnie's chest in the front double biceps shot goes completely flat you neglect that little tidbit. another shot where Ronnie cannot touch Dorian is the side chest shot , to many problems with this pose overall especially when compared to Dorian.

And one has a good natural bodyshape? letting others think for you again?  one has superior overall muscular balance & one does NOT take a look at this shot it clearly shows the one who has the better muscle balance & proportion ( ignore the scale because I didn't do it. but the proportions remain true ) its clear to unbiased eyes who has the more proportinate body .

[Hulkster]

this is where Dorians obvious advantage in muscle balance & proportion simply makes him look better in most of the mandatory poses , this is a major flaw that people tend to overlook in Ronnie . this allows Dorian to take more of the mandatory poses , you put them side by side and Ronnie's imbalance screams out at the judges

we have been trying to get this through ND's ironage desolate skull for ages now.

BOTH men have size. Both men are conditioned. Only one has great shape in the major bodyparts like arms chest and legs, and only one shows great striations everywhere. One has a great natural body shape, the other does not.

ND really has no clue.

no it doesn't- look at the pics. Look at the videos.

Look at the overall body.

If you think that dorian's "superior balance" makes him look better in all these shots, (and prior videos) than you are a total moron.

sorry but its true.

Just because Ronnie has calves that are too small for his quads does not mean that every thing else that he clearly dominates Dorian in is meaningless.

Look at the pics again. The fact that dorian has bigger calves does not save him. (oh, and you neglect the fact that dorian has calves that are out of proprotion with his twigs arms. )

[NeoSeminole]

Another "unbias" comparison from ND



Notice how Dorian's head is 3 inches above Ronnie's? You can also see the bottom of Ronnie's heel but not Dorian's. When you add it all up, Dorian grew 5 inches in the pic.

[crc69]

take a look at this shot it clearly shows the one who has the better muscle balance & proportion ( ignore the scale because I didn't do it. but the proportions remain true

 
It is a total fake !!!
Dorian is by far  nearest than Ronnie !
Ridiculous !

[NarcissisticDeity]

Another "unbias" comparison from ND



Notice how Dorian's head is 3 inches above Ronnie's? You can also see the bottom of Ronnie's heel but not Dorian's. When you add it all up, Dorian grew 5 inches in the pic.

Did I or did I not preface that with its NOT scaled correctly and you would know about that wouldn't you?  the proportions remain true and thats why I posted it to showcase Ronnie's severe lack of muscular balance and I stand by that statement.

[Hulkster]

the thing is that is 280 pound Ronnie.

If you put this pic:


in sillouette and scaled it properly, it would kill any sillouette of dorian.

but this is bodybuilding - its a visual sport.

silouettes have no place.

[NarcissisticDeity]

no it doesn't- look at the pics. Look at the videos.

Look at the overall body.

If you think that dorian's "superior balance" makes him look better in all these shots, (and prior videos) than you are a total moron.

sorry but its true.

Just because Ronnie has calves that are too small for his quads does not mean that every thing else that he clearly dominates Dorian in is meaningless.

Look at the pics again. The fact that dorian has bigger calves does not save him. (oh, and you neglect the fact that dorian has calves that are out of proprotion with his twigs arms. )

LMFAO you neglect the fact that Ronnies calves are the same size as his forearms LOL and Dorian's biceps/triceps/and neck are a HELL of a lot closer to the greek ideal than Ronnie, the proportions remain true Ronnie is severly unbalanced .

[NarcissisticDeity]

the thing is that is 280 pound Ronnie.

If you put this pic:


in sillouette and scaled it properly, it would kill any sillouette of dorian.

but this is bodybuilding - its a visual sport.

silouettes have no place.

LMFAO silouettes have no place because they show perfectly that Ronnie's balance sucks hypocrite and Ronnie in this pic is just lighter his balance still sucks and his forearms & calves are still the same size lol

Ronnie can't touch this OVERALL BODYSHOT in BALANCE & PROPORTION

[corinth]

I didn't mention biceps because lets faces its obvious . and if the assesment brings us back to complete bodies and this is where Dorians obvious advantage in muscle balance & proportion simply makes him look better in most of the mandatory poses , this is a major flaw that people tend to overlook in Ronnie . this allows Dorian to take more of the mandatory poses , you put them side by side and Ronnie's imbalance screams out at the judges

And your friend the NPC judge who says Ronnie would beat Dorian says Ronnie has to much size for him? not in 98 he didn't and 99 he was the same weight but neither versions could match Dorian for muscle density , I think side by side Dorian's , density , conditioning , balance & proportion coupled with his ability to properly pose to show off his physique to its maximum would rack-up more mandatory poses to edge out Ronnie for the win. I may be wrong...............howe ver I may be right .

The fact that you didn't mention biceps leads me to believe that the only Dorian you can have in this fight is the 93 version. Let's take the 98 Ronnie vs 93 Dorian. Size is close enough not to be the deciding factor. I'll give Dorian the slight edge in conditioning. That puts Ronnie slightly behind. Now lets move on to shape, detail, and aesthetics. Dorian himself has said that the 93 version of himself lacked polish and finish. You can hear his words himself http://www.muscleradio.com/past/index.html   So that means that the unpolished 93 version of Dorian faces the 98 Ronnie, a Ronnie you just yourself said looked awesome. The 98 Ronnie also didn't have the huge leg and glute imbalance you mention. So that means we have a battle of two men with roughly the same size, one with a little better condition and one with better shape, detail, and finish.  I just think that the small advantage Dorian has in condition is beaten by the superior shape, detail, and finish of Ronnie. To most people's eyes Ronnie simply looks better than Dorian. I know that is an opinion but that is what this is about. And more people have the opinion that Ronnie just has the better body. You say Dorian has an obvious adavantage in muscle balance and proportion but most people don't see this the way you do and even those that do don't see it as enough of an advantage to beat Ronnie. You're simply looking at this with to much "exactness". Look at both head to toe and Ronnie just looks better. Opinion sure, but one shared by most. And if you want to take this one step farther, we can talk about 03 Ronnie vs. 93 Dorian. I know you don't think 03 Ronnie is better than 98 Ronnie, but the comparison here, in my opinion, makes Ronnie's win even easier. He's just too big, with enough condition, to beat anything Dorian could ever come up with.