Last consecutive post for the morning.
I will refer to the 3 criterium once again:
1) Muscle Size
2) Muscle Symmetry
3) Muscle Maturity
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Ronnie < Muscle Size > Dorian
I am pretty sure everybody is in unanimous agreement with this fact.
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Ronnie < Muscle Symmetry > Dorian
a. Ronnie has a significantly better V-taper. Although both are plagued with bouts of abdominable distension, Coleman's waist is actually thin by bodybuilding standards, and exceedingly thin when compared to the likes of Jay Cutler or Dorian Yates. Coupled with the widest lats in the history of bodybuilding and unreal quad-size/sweep, Ronnie has a far better X-frame.
b. From left to right, Dorian is mired in flaws. Each of his biceps looked completely different, and this was before the injury! His quadriceps have some of the worst left/right symmetry I have seen, bar an obvious injury.
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Ronnie < Muscle Maturity > Dorian
This one is tough to call and is entirely open for debate. It really depends on personal preference. Ronnie's muscles look big and bulbous relaxed, just hanging off the bone due to their sheer size and the forces of gravity. Flexed, his triceps and chest become riddled with cross striations and the muscle density is so apparent. The vascularity in his quadriceps is unreal, and his biceps are drum-tight with crags, fissures, and peaks. One thing is certain, Ronnie's transitions are far more dramatic than Dorian's, and he comes to life when he poses, whereas little changes when Dorian actually flexes.
I know freeagain always rides Ronnie for looking soft compared to Dorian, but he only looks 'soft' when he isn't posing, and it serves to make the poses he hits all the more dramatic.
Dorian, on the otherhand, doesn't have a single striation. Nonetheless, his grainy conditioning is legendary and his muscles look rockhard, regardless of whether they are flexed or relaxed. He is etched in detail, but the muscles themselves are not detailed whatsoever. Its difficult to articulate ... its as though a sculpter perfectly etched in the borders and frame of each major muscle with a chisel, yet left the raw stone of each of the major muscles untouched and unpolished. The exact opposite with Coleman. His muscles are absurdly detailed yet the transition between muscles is not as stark and defined.
I really wouldn't object either way on this particular facet.
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This is all competitive bodybuilding boils down to. Regardless of the 3rd facet, Ronnie's supremacy is so apparent in the first 2 that he would win decisively, if you were to put both side by side at their peak.
I honestly believe it would have been enough for Coleman to dethrone Yates, even though a reigning Mr. Olympia rarely loses, and if he does, the opponent has to be miles ahead.
I mean, we could argue indefinitely when we use pure personal opinion as a basis. This is no different than arguing who's grandma prepares a better casserole... When you superimpose sound bodybuilding criteria, the rubric that Manion himself imposes, the controversy subsides. Bodybuilding will never be objective, but the standards do help to some extent.
One Ronnie's peak isn't the 2003 Mr Olympia , he looked great at the 1998 Mr Olympia he was just 249lbs but very dry , 1999 Mr Olympia he was 257lbs and full but not as crisp as 98 , both of these versions trump 2003 , one for being more balanced and a lot sharper , so if you want to compare a peak Ronnie to a peak Dorian pic one of those years of the 2001 ASC where he was 247lbs and on point , Dorian 1993 was 257lbs and hard as nails , Ronnie is lucky if he matched that hardness being in the 240s we know he didn't in 99 when he was the same weight , so at their respective bests Ronnie doesn't enjoy a size advantage over Dorian , and while they may have weighed the same when Coleman was 257lbs in 99 he wasn't as hard , and forget about volume VS density , Ronnie at 257 is like a ballon and Yates is like a cannonball
Symmetry ? Ronnie has a smaller waist & hips and a better taper , but thats a moot point , especially considering Dorian beat pleanty of men with small waists & hips , symmetry , left/right balance , if you know anything there is no such thing as symmetry in nature , nothing is truly symmetrical , NO ONES body matches up completly right & left , like Colemans calves , his quads , or his lats , so while you can find problems with Yates' symmetry I can counter with Colemans
How about balance & proportion? Ronnie's is medicore as has been , a collection of freaky parts not adding up to a great whole , calves to small for his quads , giant bicep/triceps that don't match-up to his forearms , biceps/triceps are so huge & overdeveloped they make his delts look small , his front & side delts are also over developed they obscure his chest when he hits the shot , no continuity between muscles , Dorian has much better balance
at his best even with his less than perfect arms , his body as a whole matches up much better and he simply looks better in most of the mandatory poses
You say Dorian didn't have one single striation
first of all striations are genetic , you're born with them and you can't train for them , thats why Munzer had more than anyone else and why some don't have many at all , and you must be blind , Dorian's chest was striated , as were his glutes , his midsection , his lowerlats , his lower back , he has striations , conditioning was never an issue for Yates even when he looked like gargabe in 94 and 97 , he was still hard as nails !!
And what matters in a contest is the mandatory poses and Yates would win most of them , at their bests Dorian would win the musculairty round , we'll give Ronnie the symmetry round although Dorian never lost one , and the posing rounds Dorian would win , Ronnie is a God-awfull poser , always has been and hasn't improved in the least , he can barely do the mandatory poses and Yates always had an advantage when showing his body off to the maximum , where Ronnie looks clumsy
So in closing Ronnie at his peak would have no size advantage , no condition advantage , no posing advantage and any other advantage you could come up with would be negated by Dorian's overall mastery & dominence , so unlike Hulkster , you have the ability to articulate your point of veiw a little more clearly , in the end your ice skating uphill .
