Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[NarcissisticDeity]

That backstage picture is so irrelevant ...
Congratulations! You proved that Ronnie is capable of voluntarily pushing his stomach out, just like every human being, or even primate for that matter ...

In 2003, his abdomen was in-check.
Perfect? No. Acceptable? Absolutely. More importantly, less distension than Yates? Invariably.

Everyone knows Peter McGough is no reputable bodybuilding authority. Aside from obvious bias, he has an unrealistic outlook on the sport. He minimizes the impotance of steroids to readers that pay money for Flex magazine. He suggested that Guiness should replace pre-contest diuretic use! Nonetheless, he is entitled to his opinion, but you referenced it as though it was of great importance. There is no question he has a personal bias in favor of Dorian Yates. They were virtually neighbors. Dorian Yates would powerwalk past McGough's residence as part of his pre-contest cardio regimen. McGough always had the inside scoop from a firsthand perspective on Dorian's progress. Unfortunately, McGough's only access to Coleman before the day of the contest consists of the same resources we all have access to.

I knew McGough stated that he preferred Ronnie's 2001 ASC package over his 2003/2004 Olympia presentation, but I did not know that included the best physique ever seen onstage. Still, McGough's opinion is not in accordance to IFBB criteria.

Funny how Dorian himself voted Ronnie > Gustavo!
Nonetheless, the Challenge Round is complete bullshit and everybody acknowledges that it is.
Why? Because a competitor can overemphasize 1 strength by constantly showcasing it (or for that matter, exploit 1 flaw of his competitor by constantly challenging it), and that is NOT bodybuilding. Bodybuilding is the total package in terms of muscularity, symmetry, conditioning, muscle-maturity, and muscle density.

Ronnie set a precedent in 2003. No bodybuilder to this day has matched that level of muscularity.

2003 Coleman (Note: NO ABDOMINAL DISTENSION WHATSOEVER!)

Hey another GetBig-Oliver Stone , conspricy theories abound , I don't care if Peter McGough and Dorian Yates went to the pub for a pint of the black & tan on a nightly basis , that has no bearing on his opinion , when in fact Peter McGough has stated the best phsyique he's ever seen was Ronnie Coleman at the 2001 Arnold Classic , so how is that bias? that directly contricts your bias-theory so its time to put that to bed because its tired

And you're on something good if you think for one moment Dorian's gut even came close to 2003/2004 Ronnie Coleman , and I love how you guys cling to this story he's pushing his stomach out , lol its laughable , and why is it when Ronnie's gut is grossly evident its him pushing it out and when Dorian does it's a different story , hypocrite !! and if you think for one moment that Ronnie's gut is acceptable is a sad commentary on what bodybuilding has become , I've watched the 2003 and 2004 Mr Olympia and his stomach has an outright joke , my girlfriend who doesn't follow bodybuilding watched as Ronnie pranced out doing the " Rasie The Roof " and the first thing she said was " OMG what the hell is wrong with his stomach? " he looks pregnant . "  in every single pose and every transition from one pose to the next you can see his distended , bloated gut fighting to free itself from his contraction , its gut is so huge it actually has spread his abdominals apart , something very seriously wrong with the Mr Olympia looking like that , and the IFBB actually had to mandate that guts would be punished and its because of Coleman , the IFBB had to actually make a rule because of Ronnie Coleman , so in what fantasy world do you live in where you think his gut is acceptable , I feel Ronnie should lose the title soley based on his gut , period . end of sentence , to bad the IFBB didn't enforce their own rules because the top 3 at the 2005 Mr Olympia all had guts and its a joke

2003 Ronnie was a joke his phsyique was at its all time worse !! overdeveloped , severly lacking in balance & proportion , his conditioning was off , the whole bodybuilding world marveled at his 287lbs , big deal , seriously , 2001 Arnold Classic , 1998 Mr Olympia and 1999 Mr Olympia all trump 2003 by a country mile , he looked fantastic compared to 03 , he looked complete and he looked more balanced , hard as nails , after I watched the vid of the 03/04 Olympia and watched Ronnie when he was in his prime it made the situation even more sad , because at one time Ronnie used to be great and now he's not

[NarcissisticDeity]

Oh-boy 

[dearth]

ND,

give it up,
most coleman fans are overly enamoured with bodyweight,
hence the 287lb 2003 coleman is somehow consider his "best"
when in fact he looked like 9 months pregnant.

Hey another GetBig-Oliver Stone , conspricy theories abound , I don't care if Peter McGough and Dorian Yates went to the pub for a pint of the black & tan on a nightly basis , that has no bearing on his opinion , when in fact Peter McGough has stated the best phsyique he's ever seen was Ronnie Coleman at the 2001 Arnold Classic , so how is that bias? that directly contricts your bias-theory so its time to put that to bed because its tired

And you're on something good if you think for one moment Dorian's gut even came close to 2003/2004 Ronnie Coleman , and I love how you guys cling to this story he's pushing his stomach out , lol its laughable , and why is it when Ronnie's gut is grossly evident its him pushing it out and when Dorian does it's a different story , hypocrite !! and if you think for one moment that Ronnie's gut is acceptable is a sad commentary on what bodybuilding has become , I've watched the 2003 and 2004 Mr Olympia and his stomach has an outright joke , my girlfriend who doesn't follow bodybuilding watched as Ronnie pranced out doing the " Rasie The Roof " and the first thing she said was " OMG what the hell is wrong with his stomach? " he looks pregnant . "  in every single pose and every transition from one pose to the next you can see his distended , bloated gut fighting to free itself from his contraction , its gut is so huge it actually has spread his abdominals apart , something very seriously wrong with the Mr Olympia looking like that , and the IFBB actually had to mandate that guts would be punished and its because of Coleman , the IFBB had to actually make a rule because of Ronnie Coleman , so in what fantasy world do you live in where you think his gut is acceptable , I feel Ronnie should lose the title soley based on his gut , period . end of sentence , to bad the IFBB didn't enforce their own rules because the top 3 at the 2005 Mr Olympia all had guts and its a joke

2003 Ronnie was a joke his phsyique was at its all time worse !! overdeveloped , severly lacking in balance & proportion , his conditioning was off , the whole bodybuilding world marveled at his 287lbs , big deal , seriously , 2001 Arnold Classic , 1998 Mr Olympia and 1999 Mr Olympia all trump 2003 by a country mile , he looked fantastic compared to 03 , he looked complete and he looked more balanced , hard as nails , after I watched the vid of the 03/04 Olympia and watched Ronnie when he was in his prime it made the situation even more sad , because at one time Ronnie used to be great and now he's not

[Praetor Fenix]

One Ronnie's peak isn't the 2003 Mr Olympia , he looked great at the 1998 Mr Olympia he was just 249lbs but very dry , 1999 Mr Olympia he was 257lbs and full but not as crisp as 98 , both of these versions trump 2003 , one for being more balanced and a lot sharper , so if you want to compare a peak Ronnie to a peak Dorian pic one of those years of the 2001 ASC where he was 247lbs and on point , Dorian 1993 was 257lbs and hard as nails , Ronnie is lucky if he matched that hardness being in the 240s we know he didn't in 99 when he was the same weight , so at their respective bests Ronnie doesn't enjoy a size advantage over Dorian , and while they may have weighed the same when Coleman was 257lbs in 99 he wasn't as hard , and forget about volume VS density , Ronnie at 257 is like a ballon and Yates is like a cannonball

Symmetry ? Ronnie has a smaller waist & hips and a better taper , but thats a moot point , especially considering Dorian beat pleanty of men with small waists & hips , symmetry , left/right balance , if you know anything there is no such thing as symmetry in nature , nothing is truly symmetrical , NO ONES body matches up completly right & left , like Colemans calves , his quads , or his lats , so while you can find problems with Yates' symmetry I can counter with Colemans

Symmetry is NOT a moot point. It is effectively 1/3 of the judging criteria.
And as already established, Ronnie's muscles are larger, so that is an additional 1/3.
The men Dorian beat with better symmetry were not Ronnie Coleman, its that simple.
Of course nobody has perfect symmetry. But there is better and worse symmetry, agreed?
Ronnie has better symmetry from head to toe. Better V-taper, better X-frame, better left/right balance. I challenge you to find one instance of Yates having better symmetry than Coleman.

How about balance & proportion? Ronnie's is medicore as has been , a collection of freaky parts not adding up to a great whole , calves to small for his quads , giant bicep/triceps that don't match-up to his forearms , biceps/triceps are so huge & overdeveloped they make his delts look small , his front & side delts are also over developed they obscure his chest when he hits the shot , no continuity between muscles , Dorian has much better balance at his best even with his less than perfect arms , his body as a whole matches up much better and he simply looks better in most of the mandatory poses

*Sigh* Symmetry IS balance & proportion you noob.
His calves aren't too small for his quadriceps, his quadriceps are too large for his calves.
Coleman has massive forearms and excellent bicep/tricep/forearm balance.

I am seriously beginning to question the validity of your statements. If anything, Coleman's deltoids are too large for his arms. Watch the video The Unbelievable where Coleman is shoulder pressing 225 as a warm-up. Mitsuru has the camera stationed behind him, and his deltoids are so f*cking swollen they make his peerless arms actually look small, I kid you not.

You say Dorian didn't have one single striation  first of all striations are genetic , you're born with them and you can't train for them , thats why Munzer had more than anyone else and why some don't have many at all , and you must be blind , Dorian's chest was striated , as were his glutes , his midsection , his lowerlats , his lower back , he has striations , conditioning was never an issue for Yates even when he looked like gargabe in 94 and 97 , he was still hard as nails !!

I know striations are genetic ... genetics are important in bodybuilding!
You don't excuse Coleman's calves, even though its a genetic predisposition, so you once again exhibit a double-standard. I'm actually laughing that you even mentioned that in the first place.

I never once criticized Dorian's training or attributed his flaws to training error.
However, fact is, he didn't enough striations and that is an offense that is worthy of penalty.
It is entirely irrelevant whether or not it was actually under his control.

Dorian's chest was grainy. By no means was it ever striated. There is a considerable difference.
Now THIS is a striated chest!

Dorian's biceps had no fissures. An awful bodypart of his with nothing of interest. Small, not peaked, no crags or fissures. The exact opposite of Ronnie.  

And what matters in a contest is the mandatory poses and Yates would win most of them , at their bests Dorian would win the musculairty round , we'll give Ronnie the symmetry round although Dorian never lost one , and the posing rounds Dorian would win , Ronnie is a God-awfull poser , always has been and hasn't improved in the least , he can barely do the mandatory poses and Yates always had an advantage when showing his body off to the maximum , where Ronnie looks clumsy

Yates would lose the Muscularity and Symmetry Round.
He is inferior to Coleman at every and any angle in terms of size and symmetry.
We are going with 2003 here. Ronnie would have dwarfed Yates. His symmetry did not change in 2003, if anything it was better because his midsection was in check and his quad-sweep was amazing, which further enhanced an already sick X-frame. Yates had a god-awful taper, even with his wide lats due to overdeveloped obliques and ugly quadriceps with no sweep.

Dorian would not win the posing round either. He was just another big white guy like Art Atwood lumbering around aimlessly onstage. Coleman isn't a bad poser. His side-chest is the only one that comes to mind that he could improve in execution.

So in closing Ronnie at his peak would have no size advantage , no condition advantage , no posing advantage and any other advantage you could come up with would be negated by Dorian's overall mastery & dominence , so unlike Hulkster , you have the ability to articulate your point of veiw a little more clearly , in the end your ice skating uphill .

I just dismantled every single premise you dreamed up to formuluate this baseless conclusion.
I think its time for you to resign.

So Dorian's "overall mastery & dominance" can apparently compensate for less overall muscle, inferior symmetry, absense of striation, a torn bicep, a distended midsection, overdeveloped obliques, hideous asymmetrical quadriceps, poor arm development, and a mediocre chest.

So, in conclusion, if your perception of "ice-skating uphill" is intelligently countering your desperate attempt to salvage any possible remnant of credibility / validity within your dismantled analysis, than I agree wholeheartedly!  

[Praetor Fenix]

You've been reading Muscular Development to long , especially if you think he's the greatest bodybuilder ever looking the way he did in 2003  sure he was the most massive & muscular bodybuilder but he was lacking in way to many things to be considered the greatest bodbuilder ever , you'd have a though claim with that one when he was 98/99 nevermind that version , so keep adding zero to this thread and when you do I'll keep correcting you 

Please tell me what he was lacking ... ?

Secondly, please tell me how 2003 Coleman is a regression from 98/99, or 2001 ASC Coleman?

[Tubbs]

ND, saying anything else than that Ronnie at his best was million years ahead of Dorian is a lack of objectivity. I agree, Ronnie in 2003, 04, 05, was no way near his best...too muscular in my opinion, no need to talk about that alien gut , but at least he was shredded and did not show up looking like he was 10 weeks out (Dorian in 1994). Dorian didn't deserve his last 4 wins; no need to talk about the 1994 O, the judging was scandalous, let's talk about 1995, 96, and 97: so, he shows up with half an arm on each side and you tell me he beats Shawn, Kevin, and Nasser, who were all in their prime? That's pure bullshit; Ronnie didn't deserve to win in 2001, and maybe in 2002, but he won hands down the other 6. Yes, his gut is awful when relaxed, but check those of the others (Gustavo, Jay,...), they are as bad if not worse...and Dorian's one was not a beautiful sight to see in his lasts outings. All in all I think Ronnie at his best is way above Dorian in terms of shape and development.

[pumpster]

most coleman fans are overly enamoured with bodyweight,
hence the 287lb 2003 coleman is somehow consider his "best"
when in fact he looked like 9 months pregnant.

You couldn't be more off. It is ND who babbles about bodyweights incessantly.

As far as looking pregnant, i've said before:

-Yates has similar gut problems but lacks the size or taper to help compensate for it.

-Yates also has a WIDE waist, so he looks bad from any angle. Coleman only has problems in side shots.

[nicorulez]

Praetor, you have handed ND his so well I believe this is moot.    However, ND, you claim that the 2003 version of Ronnie was an overdeveloped mess.  I see, then then the travesty that was Dorian Yates 1996/1997 would have soundly trounced him; one bicep and all.    Yes, you have proven yourself the fool many times this thread.  Only you have a problem with ripped glutes.  Ronnies thighs and hams would make Dorian cry uncle.  His arms and shoulders destroy Yates.  His chest is far fuller when they are both in contest shape.  I will give Dorian the front lat spread, but that is debateable.  The rear double bi and rear lat spread are all Ronnie.  Legs and glutes and arms are part of the pose and Ronnie has those in spades over Yates.  In all time best condition, Ronnie would have smoke Dorian; it would have not even been close.  The key would be to get judges that were not biased (iron agers...cough) to any era.  Only you, Sucky and a few others feel so strongly about the issue.  To most, it is a moot point.  You keep on harping about the 8 to 0 advantage; interesting that Dorian happened to get out the year before Ronnie hit his stride.  Wonder if he knew something you and I don't know.  BTW, by your logic, Haney is the supreme bodybuilder and I feel only the 1993 version of Yates would have beaten him.  Even then, Haney had mass with class that Dorian could never equal.  Maybe if Dorian had his size and Mendenhall's aesthetics, then you could legitimately compare him to Ronnie. 

[pumpster]

ND's really into glutes and calves. This one's for her him..

[natural al]

You couldn't be more off. It is ND who babbles about bodyweights incessantly.

As far as looking pregnant, i've said before:

-Yates has similar gut problems but lacks the size or taper to help compensate for it.

-Yates also has a WIDE waist, so he looks bad from any angle. Coleman only has problems in side shots.

man, you're getting alot of mileage out of the same old pics, ain't ya?

[NarcissisticDeity]

Symmetry is NOT a moot point. It is effectively 1/3 of the judging criteria.
And as already established, Ronnie's muscles are larger, so that is an additional 1/3.
The men Dorian beat with better symmetry were not Ronnie Coleman, its that simple.
Of course nobody has perfect symmetry. But there is better and worse symmetry, agreed?
Ronnie has better symmetry from head to toe. Better V-taper, better X-frame, better left/right balance. I challenge you to find one instance of Yates having better symmetry than Coleman.

*Sigh* Symmetry IS balance & proportion you noob.
His calves aren't too small for his quadriceps, his quadriceps are too large for his calves.
Coleman has massive forearms and excellent bicep/tricep/forearm balance.

I am seriously beginning to question the validity of your statements. If anything, Coleman's deltoids are too large for his arms. Watch the video The Unbelievable where Coleman is shoulder pressing 225 as a warm-up. Mitsuru has the camera stationed behind him, and his deltoids are so f*cking swollen they make his peerless arms actually look small, I kid you not.


I know striations are genetic ... genetics are important in bodybuilding!
You don't excuse Coleman's calves, even though its a genetic predisposition, so you once again exhibit a double-standard. I'm actually laughing that you even mentioned that in the first place.

I never once criticized Dorian's training or attributed his flaws to training error.
However, fact is, he didn't enough striations and that is an offense that is worthy of penalty.
It is entirely irrelevant whether or not it was actually under his control.

Dorian's chest was grainy. By no means was it ever striated. There is a considerable difference.
Now THIS is a striated chest!

Dorian's biceps had no fissures. An awful bodypart of his with nothing of interest. Small, not peaked, no crags or fissures. The exact opposite of Ronnie.  

Yates would lose the Muscularity and Symmetry Round.
He is inferior to Coleman at every and any angle in terms of size and symmetry.
We are going with 2003 here. Ronnie would have dwarfed Yates. His symmetry did not change in 2003, if anything it was better because his midsection was in check and his quad-sweep was amazing, which further enhanced an already sick X-frame. Yates had a god-awful taper, even with his wide lats due to overdeveloped obliques and ugly quadriceps with no sweep.

Dorian would not win the posing round either. He was just another big white guy like Art Atwood lumbering around aimlessly onstage. Coleman isn't a bad poser. His side-chest is the only one that comes to mind that he could improve in execution.

I just dismantled every single premise you dreamed up to formuluate this baseless conclusion.
I think its time for you to resign.

So Dorian's "overall mastery & dominance" can apparently compensate for less overall muscle, inferior symmetry, absense of striation, a torn bicep, a distended midsection, overdeveloped obliques, hideous asymmetrical quadriceps, poor arm development, and a mediocre chest.

So, in conclusion, if your perception of "ice-skating uphill" is intelligently countering your desperate attempt to salvage any possible remnant of credibility / validity within your dismantled analysis, than I agree wholeheartedly!  

One you're high if you think Ronnie has great balance & proportion or symmetry whatever you want to label it as , because its a misnoma people tend to think balance & proportion is symmetry , when in essensce symmetry referes right/left balance and NOTHING in nature is symmetrical , so in that respects Ronnie's symmetry isn't any better or worse in my opinion than Dorians , you think Ronnie's calves look exactly like each other? or when he does the rear latspread his lats don't match each other perfectly , this is commonsense , do you think for a moment Ronnie's biceps are exactly 22 1/4th on each arm? or his quads are both 37' 1/3rd inches? gets serious , now obviously Dorian's torn bicep would compromise his symmetry but I'm talking about Yates in 1993 pre tear so thats a moot point

And as far as balance & proportion are concerned its not even close , Ronnie is all over the place with his parts , starting with his calves , they are to small for his quads & his quads are to big for his calves , thus throwing off his lower balance , he has a gigantic overdeveloped ass , he sticks way out and its in no way in proportion with his hams or calves , Ronnie had a middleweights waist and a heavyweights chest & back which is desirable as long even through his torso is very short , Coleman has heavyweights delts and superheavyweights biceps & triceps , you look at his rear double bicep shot his arms are bigger than his delts in this shot and his forearms are middleweights compared to his biceps/triceps , this compromises his arm balance , overall he has no muscle continuity , he doesn't have a great flow from one muscle to the next , he is a collection of exaggerated parts while impressive its a phallacy to say he has great balance & proportion , Dorian from that standpoint as much better balance & proportion

And genetics are a part of the game , now lots of African-American bodybuilders have short high calves and most make the best of what they were given in my opinion Ronnie either hasn't or can't , Shawn Ray had pretty good calves even though they were high , Ronnie's never looked as good as his , anyway , thats not all thats wrong with Ronnie genetically , his abs are medicore , as mentioned his balance & proportion is another genetic flaw , couple that with a very thin sidehead of his tricep , so we can go tit for tat but we end up right back where we started , nobody is denying Yates biceps weren't fantastic but they're not as bad as everyone is playing it out to be !!

And Ronnie 2003 is a joke , he really is he's huge , and somewhat ripped but thats about it , his balance & proportion are at it's alltime worse , his quads became shapeless blobs with minimal cuts , his calves are M.I.A his midsection is wide & distended his intercostals , serattus and obliques are blurred and no where near as crisp or sharp as 98 , his overall apperance is no where in the quality of 2001 ASC or 98/99 Olympia , you put Dorian Yates from 1993 Olympia and it would be clearly evident who is in shape and who isn't , and you think Ronnie's quantity would overcome Dorian's quality you're sadly mistaken , and I laughed when you said Ronnie would win the posing round , Ronnie if you've ever watched him throughout his career is and always has been a lackluster poser , he can barely do the mandatories and when he does free posing , he's clumsy and looks akward , his transitions are painfull , watching Ronnie doesn't bring back memories of Lee Labrada when posing , not by a long shot , neither does Dorian but he certainly a better poser than Coleman , Ronnie despite his better taper , doesn't hold a candle next to Dorian in the ab-thigh , or the latspreads , Ronnie's side chest shot is dominated by his overdeveloped delts , you can barely see his chest , so to say he would beat Dorian at posing confirms your delusion and whats with the white guy comment? Ronnie fans are prone to pointing out he's caucasin  

You're just another Coleman fan who severly underestimates Dorian's dominence , you've mistaken Dorian for a pushoever , some B-teir bodybuilder when in fact he's just opposite !! he dominated a lot higher quality of competitor than Ronnie ever faced , in fact he lost just twice as a Pro and Ronnie 35 times , he never placed lower than 2nd in a Pro contest , Ronnie was dead last on more than one occasion , Dorian's win rate per contest he entered is 88% and Ronnie's is just 42% thats less than half the contests he entered , Dorian recieved straight firsts for all of his Olympia wins , Ronnie only did this 3 times , in fact Dorian outright beat Ronnie Coleman eight seperate times , now obviously Ronnie wasn't at his prime when Dorian beat him but neither was Dorian   at the 1993 Mr Olympia the judges didn't even need to include him in the musculairty round due to his outstanding superiority , thats unheard of !! they called him out to please the audience , who do you think Dorian Yates is? lol you think he's Jay Cutler ? Ronnie's is going to have his way with him? not quite kid , Ronnie may have dominated some ho-hum competitors but none of them were Dorian Yates , purely from a mathmatical standpoint Dorian would win 88% to 42 % I'll take those odds !!

 I'm desperately trying to salvage my GetBig credibility ? you've mistaken me for someone who cares about GetBig credibility  , I give my opinion reguardless who agrees or don't , and there is a difference between you and I , I can say if that they met at their respect peaks ( and 2003 isn't his peak ) it could go either way , seeing how the sport is so subjective who knows what the judges would pick , I'm more than willing to concede Dorian would lose to Ronnie , in my honest & unbiased opinion in all probablity I don't think he would , I think he would win and it may be by just points but I'm very confident he would win none the less , thats what seperates me from you and the rest of Camp-Coleman , but most of you are emotionally wrapped-up in hero worship and me on the other hand am not , Dorian is by no stretch of the imagination what I consider the best bodybuilder , but he is certainly better than Ronnie Coleman , so we can knitpick on bodyparts and strenghts & weaknesses to the cows come home , for another 130 pages and thats all good , thats why I'm here !!

[NarcissisticDeity]

Please tell me what he was lacking ... ?

Secondly, please tell me how 2003 Coleman is a regression from 98/99, or 2001 ASC Coleman?

Compared to the aftermentioned , Ronnie is lacking in quality , seperation , detail , crisp muscularity , balance & proportion and a small waist oh and  aesthetics ( compared to when he was lighter ) !! other than that not much lol

[pumpster]

man, you're getting alot of mileage out of the same old pics, ain't ya?

Actually I've contributed a large no. of pics; they're brutally effective in graphically illuminating Yates' hugely flawed physique.

Still waiting for your contributions-pics, actual content, ANYTHING...

[NarcissisticDeity]

2003 and 1998 lol no change at all !!  lol

[Praetor Fenix]

And you're on something good if you think for one moment Dorian's gut even came close to 2003/2004 Ronnie Coleman , and I love how you guys cling to this story he's pushing his stomach out , lol its laughable , and why is it when Ronnie's gut is grossly evident its him pushing it out and when Dorian does it's a different story , hypocrite !!

2003/2004 Ronnie had his abdomen in check, as I said. It was only an issue in 2001/2002.
I don't care how it looks backstage or even in a " raise the roof " transition.
Fact of the matter is, the pictures I posted demonstrate that his midsection was flat in 2003.

pumpster provided an excellent explanation above concerning Dorian's waist, so there isn't any need for me to reitterate this here again.

I never said for sure that Ronnie was intentionally pushing his midsection out, but then again, he managed to keep in retained on-stage, so it is entirely possible. Dorian's midsection was distended during a pose, whereas Ronnie's was completely flat in the pictures I framed for reference from 2003. I love how you have yet to comment on those pictures  .

and if you think for one moment that Ronnie's gut is acceptable is a sad commentary on what bodybuilding has become , I've watched the 2003 and 2004 Mr Olympia and his stomach has an outright joke , my girlfriend who doesn't follow bodybuilding watched as Ronnie pranced out doing the " Rasie The Roof " and the first thing she said was " OMG what the hell is wrong with his stomach? " he looks pregnant . " 

The current size of today's elite bodybuilder necessarily mandates a distended stomach.
The drug regimen and protocol nutrition required for that level of hypertrophy and maintenance will automatically engorge the stomach. It is disappointed, but I would no longer follow bodybuilding if it regressed to significantly smaller physiques with thin waists and flat stomachs.

Secondly, how the hell can you make a statement like "if you think for one moment Ronnie's gut is acceptable is a sad commentary on what bodybuilding has become" when the very bodybuilder you are defending (Dorian Yates, in case you forgot) had a worse gut?? I have no idea what you attempting to accomplish anymore. In one breath, you criticize Coleman's stomach yet ignore our visual evidence that it was flat in 2003, then in a second breath you praise Dorian yet overlook his stomach entirely, then before you know it you now berate modern bodybuilding entirely.

Ok gentlemen, you heard it, ND's girlfriend who doesn't follow bodybuilding said Ronnie looks pregnant. Case closed guys, he wins...   I'm sure this statement was followed by loads of intellectual intercourse and profound insight:

"eww thats so gross look at his veins!"
"are those muscles, like, fake or something??"
"all that muscle will turn to fat when he stops lifting, i heard it on oprah the other day"
ND: "what TV?"
G: "in the walmart off 'a adams hun"
ND: "i promise we'll get 'er one day babe, just gotta get this payment down on the new trailer"

in every single pose and every transition from one pose to the next you can see his distended , bloated gut fighting to free itself from his contraction , its gut is so huge it actually has spread his abdominals apart , something very seriously wrong with the Mr Olympia looking like that , and the IFBB actually had to mandate that guts would be punished and its because of Coleman , the IFBB had to actually make a rule because of Ronnie Coleman , so in what fantasy world do you live in where you think his gut is acceptable , I feel Ronnie should lose the title soley based on his gut , period . end of sentence , to bad the IFBB didn't enforce their own rules because the top 3 at the 2005 Mr Olympia all had guts and its a joke

His abdominals have not spread apart. Genetically, he has always had a wide linea alba. It is entirely unrelated to his training, nutrition, or the pharmaceuticals. It is a genetic predisposition and there is nothing he can do to remedy it.

His abdominal muscles themselves are not stretched out. Bodybuilders and strength athletes have very strong abdominals, and if they were stretched, as you claim, the myofilament overlap would not be sufficient enough to generate the contractions necessary to squat and deadlift the poundages they handle. Another mistaken assumption put to rest.
What was your field of study at BOCES?  

The IFBB mandate is in response to a trend, not a single athlete. Badell, Cutler, Titus, Kamali, Gunther, Ruhl, Atwood etc. all have waistline issues as well. In fact, most of the white heavyweight bodybuilders have distended midsections.

Once again, you have no right to criticize Ronnie Coleman's midsection while simultaneously defending Yates whose midsection is far more distended. Not only is it far more distended, but his obliques are overdeveloped and his waist is wide from a genetic perspective. As I have said and will say for the 3rd time, Coleman has a very thin waist. Couple that with Dorian's poor quadsweep and nonexistent V-taper, his midsection is far, far more outrageous.

[Praetor Fenix]

2003 and 1998 lol no change at all !!  lol

What do you intend to accomplish? Why do you continue to reference backstage pictures?

Hell, Ronnie Coleman could look like Star Jones backstage and it would have absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the contest.

Here is a relevant front double-bicep from 2003:

He looks as grainy as Dorian in this picture, and the photo isn't even black and white 

[NarcissisticDeity]

2003/2004 Ronnie had his abdomen in check, as I said. It was only an issue in 2001/2002.
I don't care how it looks backstage or even in a " raise the roof " transition.
Fact of the matter is, the pictures I posted demonstrate that his midsection was flat in 2003.

pumpster provided an excellent explanation above concerning Dorian's waist, so there isn't any need for me to reitterate this here again.

I never said for sure that Ronnie was intentionally pushing his midsection out, but then again, he managed to keep in retained on-stage, so it is entirely possible. Dorian's midsection was distended during a pose, whereas Ronnie's was completely flat in the pictures I framed for reference from 2003. I love how you have yet to comment on those pictures  .

The current size of today's elite bodybuilder necessarily mandates a distended stomach.
The drug regimen and protocol nutrition required for that level of hypertrophy and maintenance will automatically engorge the stomach. It is disappointed, but I would no longer follow bodybuilding if it regressed to significantly smaller physiques with thin waists and flat stomachs.

Secondly, how the hell can you make a statement like "if you think for one moment Ronnie's gut is acceptable is a sad commentary on what bodybuilding has become" when the very bodybuilder you are defending (Dorian Yates, in case you forgot) had a worse gut?? I have no idea what you attempting to accomplish anymore. In one breath, you criticize Coleman's stomach yet ignore our visual evidence that it was flat in 2003, then in a second breath you praise Dorian yet overlook his stomach entirely, then before you know it you now berate modern bodybuilding entirely.

Ok gentlemen, you heard it, ND's girlfriend who doesn't follow bodybuilding said Ronnie looks pregnant. Case closed guys, he wins...   I'm sure this statement was followed by loads of intellectual intercourse and profound insight:

"eww thats so gross look at his veins!"
"are those muscles, like, fake or something??"
"all that muscle will turn to fat when he stops lifting, i heard it on oprah the other day"
ND: "what TV?"
G: "in the walmart off 'a adams hun"
ND: "i promise we'll get 'er one day babe, just gotta get this payment down on the new trailer"

His abdominals have not spread apart. Genetically, he has always had a wide linea alba. It is entirely unrelated to his training, nutrition, or the pharmaceuticals. It is a genetic predisposition and there is nothing he can do to remedy it.

His abdominal muscles themselves are not stretched out. Bodybuilders and strength athletes have very strong abdominals, and if they were stretched, as you claim, the myofilament overlap would not be sufficient enough to generate the contractions necessary to squat and deadlift the poundages they handle. Another mistaken assumption put to rest.
What was your field of study at BOCES?  

The IFBB mandate is in response to a trend, not a single athlete. Badell, Cutler, Titus, Kamali, Gunther, Ruhl, Atwood etc. all have waistline issues as well. In fact, most of the white heavyweight bodybuilders have distended midsections.

Once again, you have no right to criticize Ronnie Coleman's midsection while simultaneously defending Yates whose midsection is far more distended. Not only is it far more distended, but his obliques are overdeveloped and his waist is wide from a genetic perspective. As I have said and will say for the 3rd time, Coleman has a very thin waist. Couple that with Dorian's poor quadsweep and nonexistent V-taper, his midsection is far, far more outrageous.

His gut was NOT flat in 2003 or 2004 when held tightly it was convexed , you can post a pic from an angle where it looks okay but watch the viedo , Ronnie has a very bad problem with letting it all just hang out , its plain as the eyes can see on tape you can't counter that , its a complete joke , and Dorian did has a gut no where near in the likes of 2003/2004 or wait 2001/2002 Coleman lol Dorian has a wide waist and thick obliques and some distention in 1997 but you look at Ronnie in the pics I posted and you find me one single picture of Dorian that is worse than that and good luck you'll need it , now I was bitching abouut Dorian's gut back in 1993 I couldn't concieve how Flex lost to him with a wide gut and no distention lol nevermind the monstrosity that Coleman has , soley for the purposes of Dorian-vs-Ronnie , I choose Dorian as the lesser of two evils , you need to read some more of this thread before you comment on what I find acceptable and don't !!

And no one is telling anyone to have a gut , the gut is one of the biggest problems in bodybuilding today and it needs to be elminated , take aways every single one of Dorian's Sandows I could care less , if it means that there would be no guts so be it , a lot of guys have guts because drugs have allowed people to go past their structures and you've seen the results and they aren't pretty , this is a trend and it will run its course , everyone is astonished because its possible for a guy 5'11" to weigh a muscular 300lbs but when you look like garbage in the process its time to find your roots again , the fact that many of you find this acceptable is a sad commentary on just how far the sport has digressed , and Ronnie was the spearhead of the Gut edict by the IFBB he's supposed to be the best bodybuilder on the planet and he's to set the example for bodybuilding perfection believe me Ronnie was ontop of the Gut-list

here is a nice pic of Coleman's flat gut at the 2004 Mr Olympia , on stage , lol this is the greatest bodybuilder alive  

[NarcissisticDeity]

Watch the videos and tell me if you can clearly see Ronnie's gut spilling all over the place 

[NarcissisticDeity]

What do you intend to accomplish? Why do you continue to reference backstage pictures?

Hell, Ronnie Coleman could look like Star Jones backstage and it would have absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the contest.

Here is a relevant front double-bicep from 2003:

He looks as grainy as Dorian in this picture, and the photo isn't even black and white 

Relevant? how so? he's not onstage and he looks like a bunch of mismatched parts and you seriously think for one moment those calves taper bigger than Yates? lol oh and he's just as grainy huh? oh-boy lol

[NarcissisticDeity]

Hey here is another shot from the 2003 Olympia lol man those biceps look symmetrical lol

[NarcissisticDeity]

Yes 2003 his midsection was small and flat !! and no distention was visable onstage !! 

[NarcissisticDeity]

Backstage , onstage , it can be seen !!

[pumpster]

Something like this, but without Ron's size or shape.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Onstage

[pumpster]

Both FRONT AND SIDE issues, with less size..