Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND, I don't sit in front of my computer every spare moment just waiting to reply to your verbal jibes.  Let us see, I am a doctor; i care for patients.  I enjoy bodybuilding and the lifestyle and enjoy these debates.  However, when this thread hit 100 plus pages, I had to see what all the fuss was about.  Guess what, it was you and Sucky droning on for page after page about absolutely nothing.  Nothing you write is enlightening; in fact, it is insipid and boring.  Your arguments are laughable.  The reason for your foolishness; you aren't exactly defending the paradigm of muscular aesthetics.  You are defending the individual who single handedly made it ok to have a huge gut and no arms and still reign supreme in the BB world.  Haney may have not had the best arms or legs, but they were proportional and cut.  Dorian was a walking travesty after the 1993 Olympia; he was ok in 1995 but his conditioning in 1994 and 1997 was abhorrent.  Ronnie, although not to Haney's degree, has managed to maintain a very aesthetic physique.  You keep on pointing out backstage pics with a distended gut.  Why is it that his gut is not so obvious in the comparisons; even in 2003 or 2004 when he was 290 pounds?  The man is better; it is evolution.  If Dorian would have kept on competing, he would have gotten anally raped from behind.  The differences in quality are staggering.  Ronnie is so much better that it is not even funny.  Open your eyes one armed man (broken wrist and forearm right?); I know you want to emulate your hero but intentionally maiming oneself is a bit extreme. 

In all seriousness you're a Dr? lol I honestly feel bad for anyone who is under your care lol I don't spend all my time on here FYI , that statement is fasle , I've been on here a lot more as of late due to a broken wrist & forearm , so unless you know me or my situation refrain from commenting on it further , because it makes you look really , really stupid   Its bad enough I can't go to the gym so this helps pass the time

You think my argument is stupid? I think its friggin brillant , I think its unbiased and honest and very logical and it just plain makes lots of sense , here is the debate , Hulkster says that Ronnie would beat Dorian at his prime , I say not quite , I say all you have to do is look at their past history together and see that Ronnie wasn't even close on the eight occasions they met , so thats a good indication on how he may fair if they did meet at Dorian's best , now onbviously Ronnie wasn't as good when they competed and honestly neither was Dorian , so while Ronnie may have improved Dorian at his peak was nearly impossible to beat , and I don't think Ronnie's improvments would be enough to beat Dorian , but being an intelligent man , I'm willing to consider that maybe Dorian at his best would lose , I can entertain that as possibility even how small I may think it may be , being such a subjective sport and comparing the two is obviously very subjective hence 130 pages , that Ronnie does stand a small chance , but based on their past history , Dorian's overwhelming superiorty over a host great guys , and his combination of size , hardness and balance , I think he would beat Ronnie if not overwhelmingly by a few points , couple that with a mathmatical probabilty and its safe to assume Dorian would win , and I honestly think thats a very unbiased , logical and honest opinion reguardless of if you agree or not , bottom line none of you have even entertained the possiblity of Dorian winning desipite all of his advantages , which leaves me ahead of the game !! so in closing this thread was designed to put an end to this nonsense of dueling opinions and I was again the more mature and respectfull man , trying to end the nonsense out of respect for our fellow members , but alas , Camp-Coleman has proven themselves to as unreasonable as their opinions and thus here we are , this best part is I did get to serve up a numbers of classic " ownings " in this thread and had a few laughs in the process , while making one of the biggest threads on GetBig , and I'm getting paid to stay home and flex my intellectual muscles , so its truly a win-win situation for me either way. !!

This message is ........

[ribonucleic]

Even if it does nothing for anyone else - and it doesn't - I'm sure Dorian appreciates ND's indefatigable teabagging.

[nicorulez]

Exactly, ND is a fooll.  Unbeatable, please.  Was Dorian unbeatable in 1994, 1996 and 1997?  He certainly was not in 1991.  I bet if Haney would have come out of retirement Dorian would have one Sandow...count em...one Sandow maybe.  Regardless, you can continue to cast aspersions my way.  I am double board certified if you have to know.  I have forgotten more than you have ever known...   Your arguments are baseless and irrational.  To say that Dorian was near unbeatable is a farce.  Forget Ronnie for a moment; you don't believe that Arnold, Sergio and Haney would have not overwhelmed that shapeless atrocity you so adore?  Please, if they would have used as much GH, insulin, clenbuterol, roids, diuretics etc; it would have been laughable.  Dorian's symmetry sucked....end of story.  His arms were laughable for a high caliber pro.  His most muscular was plain ugly...Jay Cutler is similar and that is not a good thing.  His front double bi was average.  His back, while insanely dense and thick, were not equal to Ronnie's.  Regardless, Ronnie absolutely destroys him everywhere else but calves.  By all means though, please go on and pontificate for another hundred pages.  We can hear about his winning percentage and "graininess."  Yes, this man below had it all.  Cuts, symmetry and that "it" factor.  Ronnie would be scared. 

[nicorulez]

Look at the arms and thighs, no contest.  Ronnie crys "Mea Culpa...you da man Dorian...please help me"    ND, you certainly were stretching things when you stated that Dorian had better arms.  I get it, it was a joke.  You are a funny guy. 

[pumpster]

I'm embarrassed for ND; cult-like.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Exactly, ND is a fooll.  Unbeatable, please.  Was Dorian unbeatable in 1994, 1996 and 1997?  He certainly was not in 1991.  I bet if Haney would have come out of retirement Dorian would have one Sandow...count em...one Sandow maybe.  Regardless, you can continue to cast aspersions my way.  I am double board certified if you have to know.  I have forgotten more than you have ever known...   Your arguments are baseless and irrational.  To say that Dorian was near unbeatable is a farce.  Forget Ronnie for a moment; you don't believe that Arnold, Sergio and Haney would have not overwhelmed that shapeless atrocity you so adore?  Please, if they would have used as much GH, insulin, clenbuterol, roids, diuretics etc; it would have been laughable.  Dorian's symmetry sucked....end of story.  His arms were laughable for a high caliber pro.  His most muscular was plain ugly...Jay Cutler is similar and that is not a good thing.  His front double bi was average.  His back, while insanely dense and thick, were not equal to Ronnie's.  Regardless, Ronnie absolutely destroys him everywhere else but calves.  By all means though, please go on and pontificate for another hundred pages.  We can hear about his winning percentage and "graininess."  Yes, this man below had it all.  Cuts, symmetry and that "it" factor.  Ronnie would be scared. 

Josef Mengele was board certified  as well and you're directly contradicting yourself on here but it was you who PM'ed me telling me how intelligent I am , not me PM'ing you  and personal opinions aside , according to bodybuilding history Dorian Yates from 1992 until 1997 was unbeatable reguardless of your personal feelings , he was simply untouchable , I personally though he should of lost in 1997 but the judges didn't and thier opinion supercedes mine and yours  perhaps Haney would habe beaten Dorian , I certainly wouldn't mind , I'm a huge Lee Haney fan , I think if he enetered the 1992 Mr Olympia in the same shape he was in 1991 , he would beat Dorian , but I think in 1993 they would have gave Dorian the nod reguardless of what shape Haney came in , but thats just some more speculation and conjecture for us to ponder !!

[NarcissisticDeity]

i want to make one point.

nd, you keep saying at 257 pounds dorian is better or whatever and it's not fair to say that 287 pound ronnie is thicker and bigger because obviously he would be, weighing 30 pounds more.

by that logic, you can't compare anyone who doesn't weigh the same. this is bodybuilding, if someone has a better back weighing 380 pounds than someone who weighs 230 pounds, he has a bigger back. period. otherwise i could say my friend has better arms than any ifbb pro, it's just that he only weighs 130 pounds but he'd look way better than any of them if they all weighed 130. it's a bullshit argument.

No I was mearly commenting on him making a really dumb statement like a Ronnie with a 30lb weight advantage would have a wider back , talk about obvious lol no shit he would , but thats a moot point because Ronnie's back while wider , was no where near as dry & detailed , while probably being almost as thick when he competed at the 1999 Mr Olympia , and if you want to compare a 287lb Ronnie to a 257lbs Dorian Yates have at it !!  standing side by side , Ronnie would look very soft next to a extremely dry Dorian !

[NarcissisticDeity]

Look at the arms and thighs, no contest.  Ronnie crys "Mea Culpa...you da man Dorian...please help me"    ND, you certainly were stretching things when you stated that Dorian had better arms.  I get it, it was a joke.  You are a funny guy. 

great point , WOW look at those arms , look at those quads , that makes him the best  sorry while Ronnie's bicep shot in that pic is impressive , its not textbook and clearly illustrates his many weaknesses , strong bodyparts are a weakness !!

[FREAKgeek]

No I was mearly commenting on him making a really dumb statement like a Ronnie with a 30lb weight advantage would have a wider back , talk about obvious lol no shit he would , but thats a moot point because Ronnie's back while wider , was no where near as dry & detailed , while probably being almost as thick when he competed at the 1999 Mr Olympia , and if you want to compare a 287lb Ronnie to a 257lbs Dorian Yates have at it !!  standing side by side , Ronnie would look very soft next to a extremely dry Dorian !

It's not a moot point. Being wide is just as an important attribute as being dry and detailed, and Ronnie always shows a significant amount of each quality on a Mr. O stage. You aren't able to give credit where credit is due.

[Hulkster]

Desperate?

Quote Lee Priest
 

Quote Samir Bannout

Quote Ronnie Coleman

Quote Peter McGough

Quote Peter McGough

Quote Samir Bannout

couple that with Dorian beat Ronnie eight times previously , you think for one moment , I have anything to be desperate about , you're a lot worse off that I originally thought . 

yes, desperate! The fact that you insist on using quote after quote to prove your points rather than looking to videos and pics shows you are very desperate!

One thing that I notice is that you love posting horrible 2004 Ronnie pics on this thread.

Well, let me just say this:

you are VERY LUCKY that Dorian's later wins were not in the internet age, othewise there would be JUST AS MANY horrible dorian pics to post. As of right now, there are only few:



Former WWE champion Yokozuna had a smaller waist..

[Hulkster]

love how you gloss so quickly over "they both have striated glutes" as if thats sufficient.
Hell, you should of just said "they both have glutes", thats about the only similarity.
Dorian's glutes are not even in the same dimension as Coleman's. They may be conditioned, but they are not nearly as large, striated, dense, mature, or conditioned as Coleman's. Coleman singlehandedly put glutes on the map with a combination of his squat and walking lunges regimen. It is an absolute disgrace to even subtly imply, as you attempted to do, that Dorian's are comparable.

ND does this all the time. He takes a clearly inferior bodypart and writes it off as being the same as Ronnie's vastly superior one Then he goes on about Yates dryness when he has hardly any striations and cuts except for his lower back at least compared to Ronnie.

Notice: the only "proof" ND has of Dorian's cuts are his lower back and abs.

Doesn't sound like his "dryness" really helps that much does it?

With Ronnie, you have cuts everywere, hell EVEN ON HIS SPLIT BICEPS!

[nicorulez]

ND, I did PM you long ago before you went off the deep end.  At one time, your points were well thought out and relavent.  Now, you can't see the writing on the wall.  I actually enjoyed your tit for tat debates with Hulkster as both are well spoken.  However, you are now delusional.  Hell, you are agreeing with Suckmyarsehole, and that is a sure recipe for disaster.  Dorian was not by any means untouchable.  If Nasser had any semblance of a back, he would have won in 1996/1997.  In fact, if you bemoan the fact that Ronnie has a gut, where is your defense of Dorian coming from.  He was distended and grotesque in his later wins.  I believe he left not because he wanted to; he left because he knew his time had come.  His last few wins were very debatable.  If the judges are always correct (remember, it is a subjective and not objective sport), then Bob Chick wouldn't have won the masters Olympia.  A one armed Yates with a belly would not be crowned Mr. Olympia.  Lo and behold, they did vote that way.  Is it right?  Once again, that is a matter of opinion.  However, if you asked bodybuilders who live this sport and asked them who would win, I would wager that the majority would pick Coleman over Yates.  Hell, if Levrone had Yate's intestinal fortitude, he would have won the Mr. Olympia plenty of times.  I never disagreed that Dorian was an exceptionally hard worker who did wonders with what he was given; however, Ronnie trains just as intensely and has better genetics.  In the end, genetics win out. 

P.S.

Mengele was trained in Germany, thus he was not boarded in the USA.  However, for all of his atrocities and ghastly soul, the man was intelligent.  It is just sad when a medical physician breaks the hippocratic oathe so completely.  He was an abomination and deserved the gas chamber himself.  Regardless, I can tell you are intelligent, but you are definitely misguided in this argument.

[Hulkster]

Case in Point: ND say that these glutes and hams

are as good as these ones:


which I think it is plainly obvious that they are not.

Calves, sure, dorian by a landslide. But not glutes and hams. Its just more ND delusions.

[Hulkster]

ND, I don't sit in front of my computer every spare moment just waiting to reply to your verbal jibes.  Let us see, I am a doctor; i care for patients.  I enjoy bodybuilding and the lifestyle and enjoy these debates.  However, when this thread hit 100 plus pages, I had to see what all the fuss was about.  Guess what, it was you and Sucky droning on for page after page about absolutely nothing.  Nothing you write is enlightening; in fact, it is insipid and boring.  Your arguments are laughable.  The reason for your foolishness; you aren't exactly defending the paradigm of muscular aesthetics.  You are defending the individual who single handedly made it ok to have a huge gut and no arms and still reign supreme in the BB world.  Haney may have not had the best arms or legs, but they were proportional and cut.  Dorian was a walking travesty after the 1993 Olympia; he was ok in 1995 but his conditioning in 1994 and 1997 was abhorrent.  Ronnie, although not to Haney's degree, has managed to maintain a very aesthetic physique.  You keep on pointing out backstage pics with a distended gut.  Why is it that his gut is not so obvious in the comparisons; even in 2003 or 2004 when he was 290 pounds?  The man is better; it is evolution.  If Dorian would have kept on competing, he would have gotten anally raped from behind.  The differences in quality are staggering.  Ronnie is so much better that it is not even funny.  Open your eyes one armed man (broken wrist and forearm right?); I know you want to emulate your hero but intentionally maiming oneself is a bit extreme. 

Very good post. But ND will probably not listen and list off some 12 year old quotes, post some gut shots from 2004 and go on about the scorecards, without actually looking at the two physiques in question...

To be honest, the videos posted in this thread mean more (in my opinion) than all these pics.

I have seen the 93 O. and the 99 O. and in my opinion, even in 99, ronnie had so many more cuts and striations (chest, triceps, biceps, delts, quads, hams, glutes etc) at the same bodyweight as yates did in 93 (both 257 pounds) that, when you combine the obvious taper advantages, that its not really close between a 99 Ronnie and a 93 Yates. Size wise they were the same. But thats were the similarities ended.

ND: you can go on about Yates' dryness all you want, but Ronnie was still more cut in 99 overall (except for the lower back and abs of course)- but then again, these are MINOR bodyparts in comparsion to all the MAJOR ones that ronnie has a huge advantage in..

[Hulkster]

umm.. I know this has been gone over before, but I would like to post these shots (from Ronnie in great shape at the 98 O.) and then ask a question, becuase I am still not getting it:







Okay, the comment keeps being made by ND and suckmyasshole that Dorian would make ronnie "look soft".

Well, could someone please post a series of Dorian shots that make these "look soft", because as far as I can see, other than the lower back, these shots by virtue of their supreme striated detail, make DORIAN look soft, not the other way around.

Thank you.

[haider]

Dorian has him here, but ofcourse overall, ronnie kills dorian.

[pumpster]

while Ronnie's bicep shot in that pic is impressive , its not textbook and clearly illustrates his many weaknesses , strong bodyparts are a weakness !!

Bizarre, contorted logic on various levels as always from ND. Not textbook? His biceps are some of the best in BB history, period. Strong bodyparts are a weakness..

Dorian has him here (front double bi), but ofcourse overall, ronnie kills dorian.

The other way around actually, because of vastly superior arms, wider lats, better taper and as always, better shape, all of which show up in the front double bi.

[Hulkster]

ps looking how amazing (and cut) Ronnie's triceps look in this unusual pose. That is the point that Pumpster is making: Ronnie triceps (when he was at his peak, NOT in 2004 LOL) look great from ANY angle.

Dorian's only looked good from the front ONLY. Hell, his upper arms practically disappeared from the back!


triceps are gone..

ps what was that crap about Dorian having a more detailed upper back than Ronnie?    Pic after pic from contest after contest shows that this SIMPLY IS NOT TRUE.


dorian's triceps DISAPPEARED from any angle but the front..


better call Scotland Yard!

[haider]

Im just saying that when comparing those particular shots, dorian "looks" better. I'm really not that well versed with bodybuilding judging and what not but Im calling like I see it.

[Hulkster]

bad shot from 2003, Ronnie looks like he is in the process of moving...one arms is hiked up as if he is in a transition to another pose..

Here are some better ones:

[nicorulez]

Even then Hulkster, his arms, thighs and chest more than make up for the movement.  I was just making a point that Haider has obviously not followed.  In order to have an incredible front double bi, you need biceps.  Duh, where are Dorian's in comparison to Ronnie.  It is not even close.  In fact, look at the legs and Ronnies are larger and much more detailed and vascular.  It is not even close.  Ronnie kills him.  The only thing wrong is that Ronnie is twisted away from the camara slightly, but he still crushes Dorian.  Hell, Jay has Dorian in this pose.

[pumpster]

Sadly, he's now established as Dorian "no bis AND no tris" Yates, other than those side tri shots which serve to mask some of his weaknesses. He knew it too i'll bet.

Pretty lame all the way around actually.

[pumpster]

There is *no* way Yates competes on double bis with these... 

UNDERWHELMING & STRICTLY TIER-B..

[The Ugly]

Curious. Has anyone yet cancelled his weekend at Bernie's on accounta "I gotta stay home and defend my guy"?

'Cause that'd be terribly heroic.  

[LyricTenor]

There is *no* way Yates competes on double bis with these... 

UNDERWHELMING & STRICTLY TIER-B..

I thought the point of this argumet was comparing their respective greatest appearances.  I don't remember 1994 ever being mentioned as Yates greatest showing.  So dont be silly and post a picture of yates with the torn bicep.  The Coleman Camp has tried this for a while and it just gets old.  I will copy ND and show you exactly how obsurd these comparisons are.