Author Topic: Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce  (Read 3524879 times)

pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3600 on: June 07, 2006, 04:55:52 PM »
Not much terribly wrong with another of ND's winning selections when compared to the bricklayer..classic barrel chest with no arms.

Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3601 on: June 07, 2006, 04:58:12 PM »
oops. I spoke to soon. I guess that should read "relaxed 2003 Ronnie shots".

Isn't it amazing how you can predict exactly what ND will post BEFORE he even posts it?

It is that pathetic.
You are way too predictable.

 ND, admit bias and defeat and save yourself further embarrassement.
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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3602 on: June 07, 2006, 04:59:35 PM »

Ronnie's biceps are so amazing they look like they are about to fall off his arms :o
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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3603 on: June 07, 2006, 05:03:01 PM »
What ND fails to comprehend is that Coleman is so far ahead of the others that even at less than perfect he still wins...get it yet? These pics aren't persuasive..!

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3604 on: June 07, 2006, 05:07:49 PM »
Its funny how EVERY picture from 2003 you post as reference to Coleman's gut is backstage.
As I said, I don't give a f*ck if he looked like Star Jones backstage!, that isn't where the contest takes place. I have posted probably a dozen pictures from 2003 ... Coleman's midsection is flat in each and every one of them.

Weak paragraph. You say his ab & thigh sucked, yet provide no concrete evidence other than extremely vague generalizations like "balance & proportion". Once again, you are a fool if you are referring to his quadriceps overpowering his calves, this is such an exceedingly minor element of the ab & thigh and it would only be taken into account if Dorian and Ronnie were comparable elsewhere, and as I've said they are not.

His quadriceps are clearly better than Dorian's, but they are in perfect balance with his equally massive and conditioned/vascular upperbody. Branch Warren is an example of an athlete who's quadriceps overpower his upperbody, Ronnie is not. Coleman's quadriceps have never been considered too big by any reputable analyst, even your beloved Peter McGough. So the only valid element of your statement is the quad/calf differential, and this ultimately is an exceedingly unimportant facet of the criteria.

You have absolutely no basis to claim Coleman has poor muscle continuity. He has a dramatic V-taper and quadricep sweep, but this is very good from the perspective of the fans and judges.
I can't begin to fathom what else you could possibly be referring to in terms of muscle continuity, but I can readily chalk it up to bullshit you make up off the top of your head like your prior posts.


The only advantage Dorian has in the front latspread is a shorter wingspan. He fills out the space in between his arms better, but his lats are no wider by any stretch of the imagination, and every other bodypart is inferior as evidenced by the endless debate preceding this page. I love how you try to lump the ab-thigh and side-tricep in there too despite the fact that we soundly refuted this quite awhile ago.

See above posts for Coleman's GUT onstage and have you watched the 2003 Mr Olympia on video? I have and you can clearly see his swollen distened abdomin in every transition and time he makes tha mistake of letting it all hang out , if you have not watched the 2003 Mr Olympia I urge you  ;)

2003 Ronnie Coleman is NOT comparable to 1998 or 1999 Ronnie Coleman and you're lucky if Ronnie at those times compared to Dorian , so I wont entertain your nonsense about 2003 Ronnie compared to Dorian , because other than redundant size he has nothing on peak Dorian

Muscle balace in proportion , surely you've heard of it? it how one muscle relates to the others , you know not having gigantic quads and that bring attentionto your undersized and underdevloped calves , having gigantic overdeveloped glutes that stick out so far they can actually be seen from the front  :-\ you know having biceps/triceps so huge that they make the forearms look tiny , you know the sum of all the parts creating a fantastic whole , something Ronnies never had but at one point was much better , you've mistaken Ronnie's freaky shots in the mandatory poses as great shots , from a textbook standpoint they're not , Ronnie himself has said he thinks bodybuilding is building up all the muscles to their absolute maximum reguardless of how they look in relation , let the cards fall where they may , so like Ronnie your logic is flawed  ;)

Dorian despite his numerous flaws always managed to beat all of his competition in the mandatory poses , as one judge related Dorian has some weaknesses that have kept many a bodybuilder out of the upper echleon of the sport but whenever he hit a shot they all disappeared , so you can knitpick his weaknesses to death , it's all a moot point Dorian soundly defeated many a bodybuilder who had superior this & that , he never placed below 2nd in a Professional bodybuilding contest , he was just that good reguardless if you can't see it  ;)

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3605 on: June 07, 2006, 05:08:56 PM »

Ronnie's biceps are so amazing they look like they are about to fall off his arms :o

They're so amazing they make those forearms look like chopsticks  ;)

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3606 on: June 07, 2006, 05:09:27 PM »

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3607 on: June 07, 2006, 05:12:56 PM »
if that is your only rebuttal, then its obvious that I am correct.

yates had advantages in a few minor bodyparts.

Ronnie had advantages in everything else.

With better shape and overall taper to boot.

The "dorian is better" argument is about as thin as Frank Zane on contest day.

Dorian is better because he dominated everyone including Ronnie eight times , he's better because he never placed below 2nd in a pro contest , he's better because he got straight firsts in every Mr Olympia he ever entered , he's better because he was just as big as Ronnie at his peak and even harder , you or fenix , or pumpster of anyone can't deal with that knitpick away , you can't counter Dorian's superiorty .

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3608 on: June 07, 2006, 05:15:01 PM »
Things are pretty bad when Dexter is pointing out your distended abs  :-\

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3609 on: June 07, 2006, 05:20:07 PM »
Things are pretty bad when Dexter is pointing out your distended abs  :-\

looking at that pic it's an illusion. Coleman has real deep etched abs and exaggerated separation. Look at how more pronounced they are compared to Cutler's. I'm not saying that Coleman doesn't have distention (your boy Yates did too) but having the attributes I just described doesn't help.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3610 on: June 07, 2006, 05:23:47 PM »
See above posts for Coleman's GUT onstage and have you watched the 2003 Mr Olympia on video? I have and you can clearly see his swollen distened abdomin in every transition and time he makes tha mistake of letting it all hang out , if you have not watched the 2003 Mr Olympia I urge you  ;)

Quote
2003 Ronnie Coleman is NOT comparable to 1998 or 1999 Ronnie Coleman and you're lucky if Ronnie at those times compared to Dorian , so I wont entertain your nonsense about 2003 Ronnie compared to Dorian , because other than redundant size he has nothing on peak Dorian

We have already established how 2003 Ronnie exceeds Dorian at his peak.

Very weak strategy ... you pretend that 2003 Ronnie isn't as good as the Coleman in 1998, then desperately proceed to compare Yates to a smaller Coleman who was just beginning to come in to his own. You try to make it out as though Peak Dorian > 98 Ron > 2003 Ron yet we already proved that 2003 Ron > Peak Dorian so your argument holds no water here.

You are not man enough to admit that you are terrified of a comparison to 2003 Ronnie.
As a result, you try to shift the year by actually claiming that he used to be better! Unreal!

Quote
Muscle balace in proportion , surely you've heard of it? it how one muscle relates to the others , you know not having gigantic quads and that bring attentionto your undersized and underdevloped calves

Congratulations! This is the 3rd time in a row you have raised this issue.
Rather than continually raise a subject that I have already answered, why don't you address my answer directly??

Quote
having gigantic overdeveloped glutes that stick out so far they can actually be seen from the front  :-\ you know having biceps/triceps so huge that they make the forearms look tiny , you know the sum of all the parts creating a fantastic whole , something Ronnies never had but at one point was much better , you've mistaken Ronnie's freaky shots in the mandatory poses as great shots , from a textbook standpoint they're not , Ronnie himself has said he thinks bodybuilding is building up all the muscles to their absolute maximum reguardless of how they look in relation , let the cards fall where they may , so like Ronnie your logic is flawed  ;)

At first you tried to imply that Dorian's glutes were just as good as Ronnie's because they were striated. Now you attempt to argue that Ronnie's glutes are actually overdeveloped!

Overdevelopment really is a catch-all argument for you isn't it? You isolate an outstanding bodypart of his (quadriceps, biceps, glutes) and claim they are overdeveloped. With the exception of his calves, all of his muscles are in perfect harmonious balance. You fail to cite a reference to your accusation for his supposed lack of balance yet you can only point to his calves.

All of Ronnie's muscles (calves excluded) are equally massive. You have yet to properly identify any real imbalance. Its funny, because you continue to rely on this generalization yet you are unable to isolate one specific example.

Quote
Dorian despite his numerous flaws always managed to beat all of his competition in the mandatory poses , as one judge related Dorian has some weaknesses that have kept many a bodybuilder out of the upper echleon of the sport but whenever he hit a shot they all disappeared , so you can knitpick his weaknesses to death , it's all a moot point Dorian soundly defeated many a bodybuilder who had superior this & that , he never placed below 2nd in a Professional bodybuilding contest , he was just that good reguardless if you can't see it  ;)

We've been identifying Dorian's weaknesses throughout the course of this thread, relaxed and pose, and you have the audacity to claim that his weaknesses disappear when he flexes?
Flexing his muscles did not make up for his torn bicep, lack of striations and vascularity, wide waist with hypertrophied obliques, poor quadricep size and separation, etc. etc.

You keep raising his competitive record as though it is relevant?
I guess you are merely trying to fill up more space , at least in an effort to give your paragraphs a faint appearance of substance.
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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3611 on: June 07, 2006, 05:26:58 PM »
Dorian is better because he dominated everyone including Ronnie eight times , he's better because he never placed below 2nd in a pro contest , he's better because he got straight firsts in every Mr Olympia he ever entered , he's better because he was just as big as Ronnie at his peak and even harder , you or fenix , or pumpster of anyone can't deal with that knitpick away , you can't counter Dorian's superiorty .
none of that has anything to do with this thread.

This thread is comparing ronnie and dorian at their respective bests.

The fact that dorian never placed below 2d in a pro contest, got straight first etc. is totally irrelevant to the topic at hand.  It means absolutely nothing when you are comparing pics and videos of ronnie and dorian at their peaks because facts and figures mean nothing when you step onstage against someone else.

Then, the ONLY thing that matters is how your physique compares to the person next to you.

This is why everyone thinks that you are admitting defeat;

You can't counter the mountain of pics and videos that clearly show that Ronnie would win, so you resort to meaningless facts and figures in an act of desperation.

There is no 'Facts and Figures" round on the score card.

I sure hope you were not on the debate team in highschool!
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Praetor Fenix

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3612 on: June 07, 2006, 05:30:42 PM »
Dorian is better because he dominated everyone including Ronnie eight times , he's better because he never placed below 2nd in a pro contest , he's better because he got straight firsts in every Mr Olympia he ever entered , he's better because he was just as big as Ronnie at his peak and even harder , you or fenix , or pumpster of anyone can't deal with that knitpick away , you can't counter Dorian's superiorty .

This is the same as implying that Lee Haney > Dorian Yates because he beat him once then promptly retired. Athletes change from year to year ... the competitive record only remains relevant on an annual basis.

We are comparing physiques here, we aren't comparing statistics on paper.
The contest conditions were not identical, the competitors were not the same, the timeframe is completely different, yet you ramble off these facts and figures as though they mean something.
Its like trying to claim the Cowboy's record in 1992 would actually have some real bearing as to how the team as a whole would stack up with a 2006 roster.

You are a very poor debater and keeping you on track is damn near impossible.
You always veer off in another direction (debating which year was Ronnie's best, what some old school bodybuilder or publisher had to say about Dorian, decade old contest info, etc.)
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Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3613 on: June 07, 2006, 05:31:43 PM »
at his peak, before the oversized quads of 2003, Ronnie had FANTASTIC balance throughout his entire physique with the exception that his calves were small for the rest of his body.




its clearly obvious in every peak Ronnie pic.

ND and Co. simply have never been able to admit it.
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pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3614 on: June 07, 2006, 05:31:58 PM »
Quote
I sure hope you were not on the debate team in highschool!

In another life ND would've thought the Titanic & Hindenberg were great ideas.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3615 on: June 07, 2006, 05:36:16 PM »
dorian betrayed jesus to the romans!

FREAKgeek

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3616 on: June 07, 2006, 05:41:49 PM »
There are novels shorter than this thread.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3617 on: June 07, 2006, 05:42:49 PM »
LOL
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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3618 on: June 07, 2006, 05:45:50 PM »
I don't imagine that this will ever end either.
ND has invested way too much time and energy at this point. He has dug himself into a hole so deep as is - and he doesn't really have anything to lose with repeatedly cycling his tired old arguments. He is too proud to admit that he is wrong and we are right.

I was under the impression that he would eventually tire, but he seems to spit those generic -marathon comma - paragraphs out effortlessly, and when you consider he has absolutely no regard for whether or not he is actually right, this could proceed indefinitely...
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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3619 on: June 07, 2006, 06:07:10 PM »
But you have to consider how Dorian came up, took second to Momo, only lost once more.

Impressive.

The physique Dorian had back in 1993... Damn.

And his biceps in the pics by Horton, they look pretty fcuking swole.

YIP
Zack
As empty as paradise

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3620 on: June 07, 2006, 06:24:11 PM »
We have already established how 2003 Ronnie exceeds Dorian at his peak.

Very weak strategy ... you pretend that 2003 Ronnie isn't as good as the Coleman in 1998, then desperately proceed to compare Yates to a smaller Coleman who was just beginning to come in to his own. You try to make it out as though Peak Dorian > 98 Ron > 2003 Ron yet we already proved that 2003 Ron > Peak Dorian so your argument holds no water here.

You are not man enough to admit that you are terrified of a comparison to 2003 Ronnie.
As a result, you try to shift the year by actually claiming that he used to be better! Unreal!

Congratulations! This is the 3rd time in a row you have raised this issue.
Rather than continually raise a subject that I have already answered, why don't you address my answer directly??

At first you tried to imply that Dorian's glutes were just as good as Ronnie's because they were striated. Now you attempt to argue that Ronnie's glutes are actually overdeveloped!

Overdevelopment really is a catch-all argument for you isn't it? You isolate an outstanding bodypart of his (quadriceps, biceps, glutes) and claim they are overdeveloped. With the exception of his calves, all of his muscles are in perfect harmonious balance. You fail to cite a reference to your accusation for his supposed lack of balance yet you can only point to his calves.

All of Ronnie's muscles (calves excluded) are equally massive. You have yet to properly identify any real imbalance. Its funny, because you continue to rely on this generalization yet you are unable to isolate one specific example.

We've been identifying Dorian's weaknesses throughout the course of this thread, relaxed and pose, and you have the audacity to claim that his weaknesses disappear when he flexes?
Flexing his muscles did not make up for his torn bicep, lack of striations and vascularity, wide waist with hypertrophied obliques, poor quadricep size and separation, etc. etc.

You keep raising his competitive record as though it is relevant?
I guess you are merely trying to fill up more space , at least in an effort to give your paragraphs a faint appearance of substance.

You're clueless , 2003 Ronnie doesn't beat anything you're in the minority in thinking this is the best example he's produced thus far , the general consensus of people in the know , is 2001 Arnold Classic is about the best Ronnie's looked overall since he turned pro , you're denile in accepting that either 98/99 Olympia or 01 Arnold Classic is his best overall peak package , so until you come to your senses I wont entertain your delusion on that comparsion

Overdevloped is a nice term huh? and it applies , why do ( people with any sense )consider 2001 Arnold Classic his best condition ? because his body as a whole one looked much better from an aesthetics standpoint , two tied-together much better from a balance & proportion standpoint and three his crisp muscularity completed the package , 2003 287lbs , 2004 296lbs , he looks like gargabe , he looks like 6 pounds of sugar stuffed in a 5lb bag , his muscle quality has suffered greatly , he no longer looks like a bodybuilder , he looks like a powerlifter with low bodyfat , so while you may find this fantastic , it shows you're not a bodybuilding purist and could careless about anything but size & condition , so if you think Ronnie looks his best at the 2003 Mr Olympia compared to previous version you've exposed yourself as a massbuilding fan , not a bodybuilding fan

Now on the topic of Ronnie's calves , I haven't pointed out any real imbalance? have you been reading what I typed , at the 2003 Mr Olympia his calves were huge , probably bigger most pros , and they should be he weighs 287lbs , they're NOT in proportion with his quads , there is a serious lowerleg imbalance , ontop of lacking diamond shape , they are asymmetrical , they lack seperation between gastrocnemius caput mediale and the caput laterale , and the soleus which isn't bad , still lacks deep seperation and detail from the side , so if you find his calves acceptable , it wouldn't surprise me , because you tend to overlook a lot as long as it's huge

And what relavence does that have? it gives you a idea of who you are dealing with , like the rest of Camp-Coleman , you're under this impression that Dorian is nothing more than a collection of weak parts that make up a weak whole , and you're mistaken , you all write Dorian off as some second string bodybuilder who would consider himself lucky to stand next to Ronnie Coleman , its laughable !! Dorian was unstopable he was a winning machine , he lost just twice as a Pro , thats unheard of his first contest he placed a close second and his first Olympia he placed second winning the musculairty round from Lee Haney of all people , he won the Olympia on his second try , he won 88% of the contests he entered , he beat some of the highest caliber competition the sport has ever seen , in 1993 he was so far ahead of the rest of the great feild , the judges didn't even need to include him in the muscularity round lol they only brought him out to please the audience , Samir Bannout after the 1993 Mr Olympia said Dorian , was first , second and third !! Paul Dillet after the 1995 Mr Olympia said " I've seen jesus christ and he looks like Dorian Yates . "  !! so while the lot of you may not think much of him , or his phsyique and write him off as no challenge , history begs to differ and so does his contemporaries , your underestimation of Dorian's domience & superiorty is your undoing , so continue to knitpick his weaknesses , continue to post pics where hes not at his prime continue make lame comments , I've already won this ' debate ' because I tried to call a truce and I'm more than willing to concede he may lose to Ronnie I don't know 100% for sure and neither do you , but my willingness to entertain that possibility and to want to put an end to these debates out of respect for fellow members puts me ahead of all of you , just like Dorian was ahead of everyone else  ;)

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3621 on: June 07, 2006, 06:24:35 PM »
Quote
But you have to consider how Dorian came up, took second to Momo
Hard to fathom how he ever beat Momo, actually. Like a lot of other shots against superior competition, he doesn't look like the winner. In this one he's 2nd IMO.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3622 on: June 07, 2006, 06:26:44 PM »
But you have to consider how Dorian came up, took second to Momo, only lost once more.

Impressive.

The physique Dorian had back in 1993... Damn.

And his biceps in the pics by Horton, they look pretty fcuking swole.

YIP
Zack

great post , finally someone who gets it !!

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3623 on: June 07, 2006, 06:27:57 PM »
Hard to fathom how he ever beat Momo, actually. Like a lot of other shots against superior competition, he doesn't look like the winner. In this one he's 2nd IMO.

Obviously you've never seen the video , you're just like the rest of Camp-Coleman cookie-cutter fans , the whole lot of you .

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #3624 on: June 07, 2006, 06:37:33 PM »
I don't imagine that this will ever end either.
ND has invested way too much time and energy at this point. He has dug himself into a hole so deep as is - and he doesn't really have anything to lose with repeatedly cycling his tired old arguments. He is too proud to admit that he is wrong and we are right.

I was under the impression that he would eventually tire, but he seems to spit those generic -marathon comma - paragraphs out effortlessly, and when you consider he has absolutely no regard for whether or not he is actually right, this could proceed indefinitely...

See you're wrong once again , I did grow tired of this hence the title of the thread , so you've basically proved my point , that while I'm comfortable with my opinion its Hulkster who wasn't with his !! this is why I called the truce and he refused  ;)