Author Topic: Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce  (Read 3528707 times)

Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4675 on: June 27, 2006, 04:53:59 PM »
Quote
a pathetic midsection for a bodybuilder, much less an olympia level bodybuilder, much less Mr. Olympia.

I would be interested then, in what you thought about this:



or this:



or this:



or even this:



do you think this is a great midsection for a bodybuilder then? a Mr. Olympia?

 ::)
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pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4676 on: June 27, 2006, 04:54:35 PM »
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This is the most emarrasing picture of ronnie coleman.
Not even close to Yates' pot, accompanied by less size, a lot less taper..

Praetor Fenix

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4677 on: June 27, 2006, 04:59:06 PM »
This is the most emarrasing picture of ronnie coleman.
huckster is so obviously enamoured with his quads, that he forgets the

40 inch waist!!!

a pathetic midsection for a bodybuilder, much less an olympia level bodybuilder, much less Mr. Olympia.

only a biased coleman fan would think of this pathetic display as "impressive"

First off, you ignorant ass, you should look up the difference between waist and abdomen. His waist is very thin in that picture, despite the abdominal distension. His waist would NEVER tape 40 inches.

Ronnie spilled over a bit that evening. He was much tighter at the pre-judging.
That said, camp-Coleman acknowledges that Coleman has weaknesses.
That doesn't mean Dorian is better, since Dorian has more weakness of a greater severity.

Besides, as far as I know, Hulkster posted those pictures as a reference to his quadriceps.
Its much worse when ND posts those stupid black & white pre-season Yates pictures as a testament to his size, despite the fact that he lacks ANY muscle detail WHATSOEVER in those pictures. At least the pictures we use are always consistent to a particular year (namely 2003).
I throw in some pre-2002 pictures for reference too, but not to make my real points.
Any/all visual evidence I use pertaining directly to the debate will be from 2003.

Unlike ND, who will post pre-season shots for size then post an entirely different year/phase of conditioning, namely 1 black and white ab and thigh for his condition and "grain". My personal favorite was that Yates quadricep shot from the side, LOL.

HE POSTED THAT IN DEFENSE OF DORIAN'S QUADRICEPS YET DORIAN'S QUADRICEPS WEREN'T EVEN VISIBLE IN THE SHOT! Only the sartorius. :D ROFLCOPTER.

THIS IS IMPRESSIVE
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4678 on: June 27, 2006, 05:00:32 PM »
First off, you ignorant ass, you should look up the difference between waist and abdomen. His waist is very thin in that picture, despite the abdominal distension. His waist would NEVER tape 40 inches.

Ronnie spilled over a bit that evening. He was much tighter at the pre-judging.
That said, camp-Coleman acknowledges that Coleman has weaknesses.
That doesn't mean Dorian is better, since Dorian has more weakness of a greater severity.

THIS IS IMPRESSIVE

Impressive yes but too bad he didn't show up contest day looking like that .

Praetor Fenix

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4679 on: June 27, 2006, 05:06:25 PM »
Impressive yes but too bad he didn't show up contest day looking like that .

Yes, especially since he was actually BETTER at the pre-judging.  ::)




I post those pre-season 2002 pictures for fun. I don't actually use them in defense of my argument like you do with those silly black & white pictures. Funny thing is, Ronnie IS in acceptable contest shape in those pre-season pictures I post for leisure, whereas Yates had so little detail in your real evidence samples that he could have been the stunt double for marshmallow man  ;D
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Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4680 on: June 27, 2006, 05:06:48 PM »
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I will continue to stress a very important, albeit overlooked, point:
- Conditioning/dryness are irrelevant if there is no detail beneath the skin.
I keep pointing this out and the dorian fans have nothing to say, other than to post the same shot of the lower back (whoppy, its just the lower back) or to simply dismiss it all as "bad video or bad lighting" ::)

Ronnie was far more detailed overall.  There are several hundred pics and a few videos in this thread to show this quite clearly.

Even his famous back is not good enough:


its clear in almost every shot, every video.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4681 on: June 27, 2006, 05:08:13 PM »

when I see shots like this, I know I am correct saying that while Dorian was amazing, he certainly was overrated to some extent. Hell, even the Pirate is owning him! ;D

Holly shit Momo looks better than everyone there.

Dorian really is the supreme ruler of all overratedness

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4682 on: June 27, 2006, 05:09:13 PM »
Good reference Hulkster.  :)
Coincides nicely with my earlier point that Yates' back looked 2D with arms elevated.
camp-Yates has no right to claim Dorian's upper back had better width or thickness.

Edit: HAHA what a stupid f*cking debate. People assume since its so long and so heated both sides must have some damn good reasoning. Fact is, its the equivalent of camp-Coleman arguing with Ptolemaic's who refuse to acknowledge that the Earth is flat despite an ample abundance of objective measurements, analysis, observations, etc..
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pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4683 on: June 27, 2006, 05:12:05 PM »
I'll repeat again what is obvious to some re: abs:

-Both had/have guts that can be seen in side shots.

Yates also had additional waist issues that greatly influenced front shots, that Coleman hasn't had to contend with:

-A wide/blocky waist which Coleman didn't have-that is why ND can only post side shots of Coleman's waist issue.

Yates' wide waist + less size + unimpressive shoulder structure = Yates "H" taper on frontal shots. Coleman doesn't have these issues re: front shots.

Taper is essential to BB..Taper? Where?..smallish arms completely overwhelmed by gut..

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4684 on: June 27, 2006, 05:18:52 PM »
The famous deltoids that, according to ND, are dwarfed by Ronnie's upper arms:

Also important to note:
- Look at the "thin lateral head"  ::)
Funny how its several inches larger than Dorian's in diameter, yet stacked with striations.
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4685 on: June 27, 2006, 05:21:53 PM »
Good reference Hulkster.  :)
Coincides nicely with my earlier point that Yates' back looked 2D with arms elevated.
camp-Yates has no right to claim Dorian's upper back had better width or thickness.

Edit: HAHA what a stupid f*cking debate. People assume since its so long and so heated both sides must have some damn good reasoning. Fact is, its the equivalent of camp-Coleman arguing with Ptolemaic's who refuse to acknowledge that the Earth is flat despite an ample abundance of objective measurements, analysis, observations, etc..

When I refer to Yates having better thickness & width is when compared at around the same weight , obviously Coleman with a 30lbs weight advantage would have the edge on width and thickness , but again in 03 his back was huge & wide but it wasn't as hard as Yates or his eailer versions .

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4686 on: June 27, 2006, 05:23:48 PM »
When I refer to Yates having better thickness & width is when compared at around the same weight , obviously Coleman with a 30lbs weight advantage would have the edge on width and thickness , but again in 03 his back was huge & wide but it wasn't as hard as Yates or his eailer versions .

Fair enough.  :)
I will leave the lighter versions to Hulkster and pumpster. I don't have enough time/energy to debate Ronnie's earlier performances on top of the marathon posts pertaining to 2003.
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Robbie

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4687 on: June 27, 2006, 05:24:49 PM »
Lets aim for 200 pages of pointless debate!!!!

pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4688 on: June 27, 2006, 05:25:00 PM »
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but again in 03 his back was huge & wide but it wasn't as hard as Yates or his eailer versions .
Back to the "grainy" fallback resort.   ::)

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4689 on: June 27, 2006, 05:27:57 PM »
Fair enough.  :)
I will leave the lighter versions to Hulkster and pumpster. I don't have enough time/energy to debate Ronnie's earlier performances on top of the marathon posts pertaining to 2003.


I honestly think you're alone in thinking 2003 is his best showing ever , honestly .

Praetor Fenix

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4690 on: June 27, 2006, 05:29:50 PM »
I honestly think you're alone in thinking 2003 is his best showing ever , honestly .

You're probably right. However, Hulkster and pumpster DO agree with me that 2003 Ronnie would beat a 'peak' Dorian. Which year I personally consider to be Ronnie's best is just a matter of preference and its off-topic.

To be honest, my favorite renditions were his pre-season form in 2000 and 2002.
He was off at the 2000 Mr. Olympia and he looked awful on the day of the contest in 2002.


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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4691 on: June 27, 2006, 05:47:47 PM »
You're probably right. However, Hulkster and pumpster DO agree with me that 2003 Ronnie would beat a 'peak' Dorian. Which year I personally consider to be Ronnie's best is just a matter of preference and its off-topic.

To be honest, my favorite renditions were his pre-season form in 2000 and 2002.
He was off at the 2000 Mr. Olympia and he looked awful on the day of the contest in 2002.



You're all intitled to your opinions even if I disagree with them.  ;)

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4692 on: June 27, 2006, 05:53:23 PM »
You're all intitled to your opinions even if I disagree with them.  ;)

Yes you're entitled to a personal opinion too.
However, we are evaluating IFBB physiques based on IFBB principles.
Fact is, your opinions concerning Dorian v. Ronnie do not coincide to the objective assessment criteria characteristic of the IFBB's policy.

Obviously, a Brad Pitt vs Ronnie Coleman debate would not last any length of time on a bodybuilding forum. Yet a majority of the population would most likely prefer Brad Pitt's physique, particularly the women. So these opinions DON'T matter in the context of a formal debate regarding IFBB bodybuilders and which athlete would be favored in light of the IFBB's principles.

Seriously, you should form your own federation and be the sole judge.
You could cater the criteria to your personal preferences. Form your own grading rubric.
Your views, although novel, don't coincide one bit with modern professional bodybuilding.
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4693 on: June 27, 2006, 05:55:38 PM »
Yes you're entitled to a personal opinion too.
However, we are evaluating IFBB physiques based on IFBB principles.
Fact is, your opinions concerning Dorian v. Ronnie do not coincide to the objective assessment criteria characteristic of the IFBB's policy.

Obviously, a Brad Pitt vs Ronnie Coleman debate would not last any length of time on a bodybuilding forum. Yet a majority of the population would most likely prefer Brad Pitt's physique, particularly the women. So these opinions DON'T matter in the context of a formal debate regarding IFBB bodybuilders and which athlete would be favored in light of the IFBB's principles.

Seriously, you should form your own federation and be the sole judge.
You could cater the criteria to your personal preferences. Form your own grading rubric.
Your views, although novel, don't coincide one bit with modern professional bodybuilding.

Here is the I.F.B.B. judging criteria and this is exactlly why I feel Dorian would beat Ronnie


When assessing a competitor’s physique, a judge should follow a
routine procedure which will allow a comprehensive assessment of
the physique as a whole. During the comparisons of the
compulsory poses, the judge should first look at the primary
muscle group being displayed. The judge should then survey the
whole physique, starting from the head, and looking at every part
of the physique in a downward sequence, beginning with general
impressions, and looking for muscular bulk, balanced
development, muscular density and definition. The downward
survey should take in the head, neck, shoulders, chest, all of the
arm muscles, front of the trunk for pectorals, pec-delt tie-in,
abdominals, waist, thighs, legs, calves and feet. The same
procedure for back poses will also take in the upper and lower
trapezius, teres and infraspinatus, erector spinae, the gluteus
group, the leg biceps group at the back of the thighs, calves, and
feet. A detailed assessment of the various muscle groups should
be made during the comparisons, at which time it helps the judge
to compare muscle shape, density, and definition while still
bearing in mind the competitor’s overall balanced development.
The comparisons of the compulsory poses cannot be overemphasized
as these comparisons will help the judge to decide
which competitor has the superior physique from the standpoint of
muscular bulk, balanced development, muscular density and
definition.

Front Double Biceps (see Figure 1)
Standing face front to the judges, with the legs and feet
in-line and a short distance apart, the competitor will raise
both arms to shoulder level and bend them at the elbows.
The hands should be clenched and turned down so as to
cause a contraction of the biceps and forearm muscles,
which are the main muscle groups that are to be assessed
in this pose. In addition, the competitor should attempt
to contract as many other muscles as possible as the
judges will be surveying the whole physique, from head to
toe.

The judge will first survey the biceps muscles looking for a
full, peaked development of the muscle, noting whether
or not there is a defined split between the anterior and
posterior sections of the biceps, and will continue the
head-to-toe survey by observing the development of the
forearms, deltoids, pectorals, pec-delt tie-ins, abdominals,
thighs, and calves. The judge will also look for muscle
density, definition, and overall balance.

Front Lat Spread (see Figure 2)
Standing face front to the judges, with the legs and feet a
short distance apart, the competitor will place the open
hands, or clenched fists, against, or gripping, the lower
waist or obliques and will expand the latissimus muscles.
At the same time, the competitor should attempt to
contract as many other frontal muscles as possible. It
shall be strictly forbidden for the competitor to pull up on
the posing trunks so as to show the top inside of the
quadriceps.
The judge should first see whether the competitor can
show a good spread of the latissimus muscles, thereby
creating a V-shaped torso. Then the judge should
continue with the head-to-foot survey, noting first the
general aspectsof the physique and then concentrating on
the more detailed aspects of the various muscle groups.

3. Side Chest (see Figure 3)
The competitor may choose either side for this pose, in
order to display the “better” arm. He will stand with his
left or right side towards the judges and will bend the arm
nearest the judges to a right-angle position, with the fist
clenched and, with the other hand, will grasp the wrist.
The leg nearest the judges will be bent at the knee and
will rest on the toes. The competitor will then expand the
chest and by upward pressure of the front bent arm and
contract the biceps as much as possible. He will also
contract the thigh muscles, in particular, the biceps
femoris group, and by downward pressure on his toes,
will display the contracted calf muscles.
The judge will pay particular attention to the pectoral
muscles and the arch of the rib cage, the biceps, the leg
biceps and the calves, and will conclude with the head-tofoot
examination. In this pose the judge will be able to
survey the thigh and calf muscles in profile, which will
help in grading their comparative development more
accurately.

Back Double Biceps (see Figure 4)
Standing with his back to the judges, the competitor will
bend the arms and wrists as in the Front Double Biceps
pose, and will place one foot back, resting on the toes.
He will then contract the arm muscles as well as the
muscles of the shoulders, upper and lower back, thigh
and calf muscles.

The judge will first survey the arm muscles and then do
the head-to-foot survey, during which there are more
muscle groups to look at than in all of the other poses.
This includes the neck, deltoids, biceps, triceps, forearm,
trapezius, teres, infraspinatus, erector spinae, external
obliques, latissimus dorsi, gluteus, thigh biceps, and
calves. This pose, probably more than the others, will
help the judge to determine the quality of the
competitor’s muscle density, definition, and overall
balance.

Back Lat Spread (see Figure 5)
Standing with his back to the judges, the competitor will
place his hands on his waist with his elbows kept wide,
one foot back and resting on the toes. He will then
contract the latissimus dorsi as wide as possible and
display a calf contraction by pressing downward on the
rear toes. The competitor should make an effort to
display the opposite calf to that which was displayed
during the back double biceps pose so the the judge may
assess both calf muscle equally. It shall be strictly
forbidden for the competitor to pull up on the posing
trunks so as to show the gluteus maximus muscles.
The judge will look for a good spread of the latissimus
dorsi, but also for good muscle density and will again
conclude with the head-to-foot survey.

6. Side Triceps (see Figure 6)
The competitor may choose either side for this pose so as
to show the “better” arm. He will stand with his left or
right side towards the judges and will place both arms
behind his back, either linking his fingers or grasping the
front arm by the wrist with his rear hand. The leg nearest
the judges will be bent at the knee and the foot will rest
flat on the floor. The competitor will exert pressure
against his front arm, thereby causing the triceps muscle
to contract. He will also raise the chest and contract the
abdominal muscles as well as the thigh and calf muscles.
The judge will first survey the triceps muscles, and
conclude with the head-to-foot examination. In this pose,
the judge will be able to survey the thigh and calf muscles
in profile, which will help in grading their comparative
development more accurately.

Abdominals and Thighs (see Figure 7)
Standing face front to the judges, the competitor will
place both arms behind the head and will place one leg
forward. He will then contract the abdominal muscles by
55
“crunching” the trunk slightly forward. At the same time,
he will contract the thigh muscles of the forward leg.
The judge will survey the abdominal and thigh muscles,
and then conclude with the head-to-foot examination.

pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4694 on: June 27, 2006, 05:57:11 PM »
Quote
Seriously, you should form your own federation and be the sole judge.
You could cater the criteria to your personal preferences. Form your own grading rubric.
Your views, although novel, don't coincide one bit with modern professional bodybuilding.
The prospect of ND babbling incessant nothings about Yates to an audience comprised entirely of himself and Alexxx could prove intoxicating..tremendous ly stimulating to both of them.  ;)

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4695 on: June 27, 2006, 06:00:34 PM »
The idea of ND babbling incessant nothings about Yates to an audience comprised entirely of himself and Alexxx the nerd would be tremendously stimulating to him.  ;)

Babbling like your CFL is just as good as the NFL debate? lol  ;)

pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4696 on: June 27, 2006, 06:02:27 PM »
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Babbling like your CFL is just as good as the NFL debate? lol 
That was hearsay from someone else. The idea's to be smart enough to discern that..

Seriously though the idea of ND & Alexxx forming their own federation to spout more of this crap's intriguing.. ;D

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4697 on: June 27, 2006, 06:05:25 PM »
WTF ND!  ???  >:(
YOU JUST COPY & PASTE THE ENTIRE IFBB MANUAL AND YOU EXPECT ME TO RESPOND?

Raise some specific points within the document itself that you think are cogent.
Thats weak man ... simply cut and paste a huge mound of shit for me to sift through.
Especially when I have taken the time to draft long, original, and thoughtful responses to even your most absurdly delusional inventions.

So sorry man, I'm not going to peruse through an entire reference manual, though I'll be glad to discuss any specific points of you interest you care to raise in this thread.
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pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4698 on: June 27, 2006, 06:08:40 PM »
I might add that once formed, the ND/Alexxx federation would provide for a very high giggle quotient.. :o

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4699 on: June 27, 2006, 06:16:11 PM »
I might add that once formed, the ND/Alexxx federation would provide for a very high giggle quotient.. :o

I'd love to see the official assessment sheet

Calves  __ / 10

Dryness __ / 10

Lateral Head Kink __ / 10

"Grain" (caveat: African-Americans are to be assigned a 0) __ / 10

Balance (caveat: judge is entitled to extensive artistic license) __ / 10

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