This is directed at the Mighty Templar from Planet Geek, as aresponse to his insane diatribes...
You have no valid content, so you try to overwhelm me with sheer volume. Awesome.
It is unbelievable, that you continue to insist, that Ronnie in 2003 even belonged on a bodybuilding stage, let alone was deserving to win the Sandow trophy. Amazing! I have already written several multi-paragraph, explaining why the 2003 Ronnie is not even worthy of mentioning, yet you still soe back for more.
Ronnie Coleman won the 2003 Mr. Olympia with straight 1st's. The fact that you insist that he doesn't even belong on a professional stage demonstrates that you are too biased to offer an objective assessment. You have written an abundance of bullshit, thats about it.
It makes me wonder if you even consider, the massive photographic evidence, that Ronnie's 2003 version was an abomination bestowed upon the world of bodybuilding. Is it really possible that you ignore his mssively distended abdomen?
Ok, listen to me. Ronnie's abdomen was completely flat during the pre-judging.
In the evening, it was only an issue in transition.
Regardless, Ronnie's abdominal distension pales in comparison to Yates' wide waist and overdeveloped obliques, which he can't hide from any angle.
You are quite good at isolating Ronnie's flaws, but then you fail to juxtapose them to Dorian's.
You claim that his taper is still better than Dorian at his lighter version, which is compoletely untrue. The thing is that the 287 lbs Ronnie, in his 2003 version, due to his greater overall bodymass, had greater shoulder width than he did at his lighter version. Yet, if you look at his waist, you'll see that it has thickened dramatically from his 250+ lbs form.
By no means is Ronnie's waist wider than Dorian's.
It very well may have grown in circumference over the years, but thats irrelevant.
Most white bodybuilders have wide waists. Its a genetic predisposition. Unrelated to drugs.
The same way most black bodybuilders have long calcaneal tendons (high calves).
Even if Ronnie's waist was slighter wider than Dorian's (which it is NOT), his taper would still be better due to slimmer obliques and significantly wider lats and delts.
Ronnie "appers" to have a better taper because his shoulder girdle was wide in 2003. But if you compare the waist to Dorian's, you'll see the ltter has a thinner waist overall. You then might argue: "Oh, but taper is a relative measure: as long as the ratio between shoulder and waist remains the same, the taper remains similar proportionally" The problem here is in assuming that the aist can also increase with quality to the same degree as the shoulder. This is false.
Bodybuilding is a visual sport dude. You even admit that his taper "appears" better, hence it is.
The actual measurements aren't important in bodybuilding. The same way one bodybuilder's 20" arms look significantly better/larger than another's equally large, yet less impressive, 20" arms.
You base this paragraph on one mistaken assumption. Ronnie's waist isn't wider. Case closed.
Besides, even if your assumption was correct, which it isn't, the analysis isn't true.
Jay Cutler has an excellent taper despite an extremely wide waist, for instance.
The deltoid muscles gains in quality, as well as in size, when it expands; the waist expands without a concomitant increase in etchiness and striations.
What the hell are you talking about?
An increase in size, esp. the deltoids, doesn't necessarily indicate an increase in quality.
The waist isn't even a muscle, yet you are acting as though it is in this analysis.
I am utterly lost as to where you are headed with this.
If you compare the 250+ lbs Ronnie to his 280+ lbs form, you'll see that the ratio between shoulder and waist didn't deteriorate much, because Ronnie's side delts improved and expanded as well. But when you judge the relative quality of this expansion, vis-a-vis ho the delts and shoulders compare, you'll notice that his taper deterioated dramatically in quality, even if not too much in terms of proportions - and this is only from the front!
The unavoidable fact is the following: Ronnie has a smaller waist, less developed obliques, coupled with significantly wider lats and delts. I'm sorry, there is simply no bypassing this comparison. Ronnie's V-Taper is better by default simply because every element necessary for an upper-echelon taper is clearly in Ronnie's favor.
It may be different if we were comparing them standing alone. The true test would be to have them side by side. Standing shoulder to shoulder, it would look really bad for Dorian to have a wider waist and wider obliques, yet be somewhat shorter in height with narrow delts and lats.
Observe that, while his delts expanded while becoming more etched - although less separated -, his wais became more concave, with less striations and definition on his obliques. The obliques are muscles, too, sothey can only expand through hypertrophy. What do you think this hypertrophy leads to? That's right: a cange from the classical "V" to a "()" shape.
Ronnie's delt-heads never lost separation. Nice try though...
OBLIQUES are not on the F*CKING WAIST ... self-proclaimed genius.
Ronnie's obliques were still detailed, yet without the overwhelming size that detracted from Dorian's taper and made his abdomen appear wider from nearly every angle.
Ronnie's great gains in mass, from 2002 to 2003, was not accompained with the maintainance of a quality taper - even if the ratio remained relatively the same. If you look at rhe video from the 2002 Olympia, you'll see that, even then, Ronnie already displayed a distnded abdomen, even though he still had a "relatively" classical V-taper.
You are full of shit. Ronnie was god-awful in 2002. He had distension that was comparable to 2001 minus 20-30 pounds of quality muscle. His waist was its usual width. You really don't know shit if you are under the mistaken impression that the waist can fluctuate in size like that from year to year. You are basing this entire assessment on the assumption that his waist actually flucutates from year to year, which is a gross mistake on your part. You are either making shit up completely or you truly are lost...
In the next year's Olympia, Ronnie's distension became even worse, with the most bonus of a wais tha thickened mightly. So, Ronnie in 2003 has a shitty waist. Now let's tie it all in together by adding his distension into the equation.
Once again, Ronnie struggled with some minor distension in the evening round only.
2003 Ronnie Coleman most definitely did NOT have a shitty waist. It can't possibly get any slimmer for a man that size, and it is still considerably smaller than Dorian's in circumference.
You sound like every other newb in this forum who consistently confuses the waist with the abdomen.
Lastly, I want to conclude with the following: abdominal distension is not as important as you and ND stress. I understand that is one of Ronnie's problems, but it is also one of Dorian's problems. The judges at the Mr.Olympia evidently don't prioritize a flat abdomen, or else neither of them would have won as many times as they did. Look at the 2004 posedown: Badell, Cutler, Ruhl, Schlierkamp - all of them have issues with their abdomens. Of course the IFBB would prefer a flat midsection to a distended one, but ultimately more important factors such as muscle size take precedent. Its not a coincidence that the Top 5 in the 2004 Challenge Round all happened to be the largest competitors in the show...
Same way you guys harp on Ronnie's calves. You blow up certain issues as though they are of extraordinary importance, when in fact that the IFBB would simply take it with a grain of salt. On the otherhand, you dismiss CRUCIAL elements that aren't in Dorian's favor, such as striations, muscle size, quad sweep, muscle separation, muscle maturity, symmetry, etc.
