Who gives a shit? You write things from your mind, your opinion and not facts!
So you are sitting down with the all-purpose, definitive edition of the IFBB's objectives / principles to your left, and several head-judges and bodybuilding officials to your right as you compose your replies??
I evaluate the photographic/visual evidence, consider exactly what is emphasized at the Olympia, and go from there. Most of what I write is not opinion because it is entirely objective.
RONNIE COLEMAN DOES HAVE BETTER QUADRICEPS. That is a fact. When you try to argue against this, it demonstrates that it is you who tosses aside any semblance of fact and dives right into the theoretical realm of your personal ideals and opinions.
Ronnie's quadriceps are better from the perspective of every single element associated with bodybuilding: size, separation, vascularity, striations, condition, hardness, sweep, balance b/w the individual muscles, crisp muscularity (as you like to say), delineations, symmetry, shape, etc.
Its not opinion when ANY criterium that applies to bodybuilding is in Ronnie's favor in this case.
I didn't reply to that post because, it was to stupid to stomach! Saying that Ronnie, in his 2003 form, has good taper isretarded! Why should I reply to that?! By the way, I did reply to that, on my post where I explain why Ronnie sucked ass in 2003; you just pretended I didn't answer your post! By the way, I have replied to only one of your counter-posts so far; I will reply to the rest. Just not now.
Well I'm not exactly "moved" by your posts either, but I respond regardless of whether or not I agree or think you maintained an objective state of mind.
The fact that Ronnie has a better taper IS a fact. It is a very simple equation:
Thinner waist + Wider delts + Wider lats + Lower lat origins + Less oblique development.
That AUTOMATICALLY yields a superior V-taper.
You can't argue with any of those individual points above. White bodybuilders, on average, have considerably wider waists, same as black bodybuilders, on average, have considerably longer calcaneal tendons (or higher calves). I cite the racial statistics just to demonstrate that it is somewhat expected that Ronnie
would have a smaller waist, from an entirely genetic perspective. That is not subjectivism. Ronnie's size alone demonstrates wider delts and lats. The pictures attest to less oblique development and lower lat origins. To argue against any one of those points listed above is to argue against FACT. I can't simply make that up, its readily apparent, and if any of those WERE in Dorian's favor, that would be apparent too but its not since every element that contributes to a good V-taper is to Ronnie's advantage.
I'm not saying it was Ronnie's all-time best V-taper, but it WAS much better than Dorian's.
I replied to all of your points! All of them! And I've explained hy Dorian in 1993/5 was better. It is just my opinion, though one based in official I.F.B.B judging criteria.
You've ignored several multi-paragraph responses entirely!
With others, you selectively respond to certain points and ignore others.
Most of the time, you simply forge a response from scratch that is unrelated to my rebuttals.
Once again, what IFBB judging criteria? I'm sorry, going to the IFBB's webpage and briefly perusing through their public documents in search of elements that favor Dorian's, whereas overlooking or intentionally ignorning those that support Ronnie, does not constitute the right to say your views are based solely on the official IFBB criteria.
Oh, really? Even though I said that Dorian was at his worst in 97?! That he had a distended midsection, torn muscles and his grossest imbalances to date?! You're hopeless! I think I should just take Narcissistic's advice nd stop replying to your monomaniacal idiocy.
they just so happen to not be in Dorian's favor.
You mention them, but then fail to factor them into the big picture. You form your defense based on Dorian's few strengths, but don't take that extra step by then comparing them to Ronnie's and weighing the
Besides, Dorian in 1997 wasn't your template. I thought 1993 was?
Regardless, admitting that the competitor had some flaws in the year you are not using as your basis for the assessment is deceitful since ultimately it doesn't matter in the context of the debate what he looked like in 1997.
Its the equivalent of me lamenting how Coleman looked in 2002 but failing to acknowledge his shortcomings in '03 relative to Dorian. I always concede Dorian's advantages, I never attempt to argue against them, but I do recognize that they are few and hopelessly outweighed by Ronnie's advantages, both in terms of the sheer quantity of advantages and the fact that they are usually of greater significance/weight since the items in question are larger or more prominent.
You've said multiple times that you would stop debating with me. That is your prerogative.
It makes no sense though to keep reitterating that promise and not follow through with it.
I think ND recommended you stop debating with me since your arguments are self-incriminating.
The transparency and weakness characteristic of your argument reflects poorly on ND
I can see why he "tactfully" suggested that you quit arguing with me, for your own good lol
Seriously though, your arguments are often more self-incriminating than my subsequent replies!
The big picture is this: Dorian in 1993/5 had, in relation to the 2003 Ronnie:
- Better taper(beyond didpute)
- More chiseled midsection
- Wins the front lat spread, abs-and-thighs, side chest, side triceps and the back double biceps.
- Wins the symmetry round flat out.
- Better taper(beyond didpute) (Previously refuted with insurmountable evidence)
- More chiseled midsection
- Wins the front lat spread, abs-and-thighs, side chest, side triceps and the back double biceps.- Wins the symmetry round flat out. (No way in hell, explained below)
Once again, Ronnie has better left-right symmetry. Dorian's quads, upper arms, pecs, traps, upper back, and delts don't match. Ronnie's left and right are perfectly, absolutely uniform.
From top to bottom, Ronnie wins due to a better taper, bigger arms that are in better balance with his torso, Dorian's midsection/waist are too wide and detract from his physique. Couple that with Dorian's nonexistent quad-sweep, Ronnie would win top-to-bottom too.
Ronnie's only weakness from top-to-bottom is quad/calve size differential.
Dorian's biceps, deltoids, hamstrings, and glutes are way too bad to win the back-double-bicep.
His triceps are not beefy enough so they have a poor hang. Ronnie's upper back is broader, thicker, wider, with deeper separation with arms elevated due to 3Dimensional crevices and contours. All Dorian would have on Ronnie in this pose is calves and lower back (surprise).
Not enough to compensate for hamstrings, glutes, delts, biceps, triceps, traps, AND lats.
Their difference in forearms, unlike ND's insistence, is negligible.
Side tricep: Ronnie's triceps are larger and more detailed, but with genetically inferior shape.
That said, Ronnie's quadriceps, glutes, thinner waist, chest, delts, AND biceps would more than compensate for Dorian's minor advantages in tricep shape, calves, and abdominal clarity.
Dorian's ABDOMINALS are not better, only their condition, shred, and detail. From the muscularity standpoint, Ronnie's abdmonials would exceed Dorian's, so their greater muscularity would nearly compensate for the inferior condition, if not fully, then certainly partially.
Regardless, Ronnie easily wins this pose. The signature bodypart, triceps, is outclassed by Ronnie due to greater size, striations, and detail in the triceps muscle.
Dorian's lateral head has a better shape, but Ronnie's IS wider, even if it looks thinner relative to his physique as a whole, and YES, JUDGES DO EVALUATE ABSOLUTE SIZE AS WELL AS RELATIVE SIZE.
Side Chest: Ronnie wins easy. Bigger and better biceps, coupled with better delts, better chest. Side chest obscures the abdomen, so Dorian would gain no advantage for his midsection condition. Ronnie wins hamstrings, quadriceps too. Dorian's only advantage in this pose is calves.
Even IF the judges give Dorian forearms (which they wouldn't), thats still only an advantage in two (exceedingly minor) bodyparts, as opposed to 6 MAJOR bodyparts, including the signature bodyparts that define the pose (biceps and chest). Remember, Coleman's chest is larger, more symmetrical, more detailed, AND he doesn't have the sternocostal abberation which is a deficiency where Dorian can't build muscle on the lower portion of his sternum, a glaring deficiency I might add.
Lat Spread: Ronnie wins pectorals, lat width, lat thickness, arms, quadriceps, and delts.
Once again, Dorian only has calves and abdominal conditioning. Ronnie still outclasses Yates midsection in the muscularity department. Coleman has a leaner waist with a better taper, paramount to victory in the front lat spread. Couple that with significantly better size and muscular detail, its really no contest whatsoever.
Ab/Thigh: More contentious? No.
Ronnie wins quads, quad sweep, taper, chest, lats, arms. Ronnie's overall size/width is superior.
Dorian wins calves and abdominal condition. Wider waist w/ inferior taper. No quad sweep.
Exceedingly easy assessment. Ronnie wins. Goodnight.
And sorry, a superior conditioned midsection will not win the Mr. Olympia, or else Ahmad Haidar would be a multiple Mr. O defending champion.
