Pumpster - they just don't get it.
Ronnie has the arm mass, delt width, and quad flair/sweep to compensate for the wider waist.
Dorian doesnt.
If after 200+ pages, these chaps still don't understand the above, then what makes you think after another 200 they might get it?
Oh, really? First of all, the arms are not relevant when it comes to improve one's taper; it's relevant for the overrall look of the physique, but the taper? No. Secondly, you need to understand that all of these things re measured in "ratios" and not interms of absolutes; it is about a mathematical game that simply cannot be bargained with.
So you say that both Ronnie and Dorian have the gut, but Dorian lacks the mass to compensate for it? Wrong. Ronnie's gut deteriorated in several ways over the years. When you look at him at the 1998/9 Olympias, you realize that his lats and delts had clearly far less width than in 2003/4. Yet, Ronnie's waist was so small that he looked more impressive as far as taper goes. But that's not the only thing that deteriorated. You see, if Ronnie had managed to increase his lats in proportion to his waist increase, his taper would have remined the same. Unfortunately, Ronnie's waist inceased in circumference to a much greater extent than what his lts would be able to compensate for; a fact that, as I've mentioned previously, can be easily verified by a tape measurement: an absolute, mathematical fact that cannot be contested.
But this is not the only way in which Ronnie's midsection deteriorated: it also wen't down in shape and quality. Ronnie, in 1998, had a great advantage over Dorian when it came to taper, because he has genetically narrow hips. Unfortunately, this is a disavantage when it comes to the obliques, because the narrower hips tend to showcase flaws in this area more intensely. Dorian always had a better definition on his obliques than Ronnie, somehting which didn't change even in 1997, his worst year. Yet, due to Dorian's naturally wider hips, his obliques always were kind of blocky and lacking in shape. So, the 1998 Ronnie compensated for this relative lack of oblique definition by having it more svelts; great. When Ronnie bulked up to 280+ lbs, his obliques definition - which was already bad - sank even further.
But there's more: you see, unlike Ronnie, Dorian could actually afford to increase his waist and still maintain a better midsection overrall. Why? Because Dorian's genetically wider hips, while taking away from his taper, actually allowed him to have a worst taper with a better shape. Thereason for this is that Dorian's waist could increase in thickness without strathing out from the hips bones, thus maintaining a still relatively good "linear"form. When Ronnie increased the width of his waist, conversely, it acquired a "concave" shape outwards; something extremely unaesthetic. Even at 270+ lbs, at the 1997 O, Dorian, with his thick waist and distended midsection, still had this linear shape of his waist to the sides; Ronnie didn't, in 2003.
This liability is compunded by the fact that size and shape exist not only in one dimension, but three. To better understand this, consider that bodybuilding has, as it's objective, the evaluation of a physique from all angles. Unlike the ration between lat width and waist, an abdominal distension exists as an absiolute. What this mens is that, from the sides, the reltive girth of your muscles don't affect how badly your gut appers. The reasons for this are two-fold: firstly, the muscles never increase in size, from the sides, as it does from the front and back; the overrall increase, in width, is always greter than the increase in thickness. Hence, while it's possible to drmatically increase the size of your waist and still have great taper, by increasing your lat width. Unfortunaly, the
proportions between the sides tend to deteriorate far more dramatically, because the increase in thickness simply cannot follow the increase in gut size to the same degree. Secondly, unlike an increase in waist width from the front, an abdominal distension cannot be compensated with an increase in quality. When the gut distends, the obliques "stretch", thus becoming an aesthetic liability which simply cannot be overcome.
So, Ronnie's gut distension, at 280+ lbs pounds, was worse than Dorian's even at his worst 1997 shape. First of all, Ronnie's narrow hips made his wist concave to the sides, detraction from his shape; Dorian increased his waist thickness but did not have a decrese in midsection quality, because his hips are already naturally wide. Secondly, Ronnie's distension was simply greater than Dorian's. Much greater. And as mentioned previously, Ronnie's increased size was not enough to compensate for that, due to the fact, that muscles increase in thickness far less dramatically than they do in width. So, as a
ratio, Ronnie's midsection, to the sides, became a greater liability than Dorian's ever was. And I'm being generous and comparing the 2003 Ronnie to Dorian's 270+, 1997 Olympia form: when it comes to the 257 lbs Dorian, Ronnie just gets destroyed.
In fact, being realistic, the 1993/5 Dorian has better taper, than Ronnie, in every way that counts: size, ratio, shape and defintion. For starters, the
ratio between lat width and waist size is better for Dorian; there's no contest: the 257 lbs Dorian's waist is
tiny when compred to Ronnie's. And this is made more incredible by the fact that Dorian's waist was never classical in the first place; it just goes to show you how much Ronnie screwed up when he bulked up.
Now, let's talk about overrall quality, then by how this would affect the twon bodybuilders on a bodybuilding contest. The 257 lbs Dorian's abs are: more defined and flatter. His obliques are: more defined and, although thicker, this is compensated by the fact that Dorian has wider hips, which allows him to disply this thickness without compromising his shape to the sides. The 257 lbs Dorian has much flatter abs than Ronnie, which improves his look both from the sides
and from the front. How? The concave shape again. Ronnie's larger version just can't help but display an awful concave shape, both to the sides and to the front. Ronnie's super-wide delts helps give him a good - not great - taper even at this weight, but it's obvious that his shape, and the qulity with hich he displys this shape, is serioulsy compromised. Dorian's midsection, in 1993/5, was tighter, with more abs and obliques definition, better shape to the sides and to the front. His delts were not as wide as Ronnie's, but his lats ere not merely as wide, but actually harder. Which further improves the overrall appearance of the taper. Dorian, at 257 lbs, simply destroys Ronnie in the areas of proportions, ratio between lat/delt wdth and waist size and, bove everything else, the quality of muscular separation of his abs/obliques muscles.
Then, how would this severe liability, both in terms of size and quality, reflect in a bodybuilding contest between the 257 lbs Dorian and the 287 lbs Ronnie. Well, in the abs-and-thighs shot, it is a no-brainer: with the delts not visible, the lat width becomes the parameter with which the waist size is compared, and Dorian takes that: his waist , at 257 lbs, is smaller than Ronnie's at 287 lbs
and his lats are almost just as wide. Now let's compare the two, in this pose, in quality. Again: a no-brainer: Dorian's tighter midsection, better abs nd obliques definition flats out wins this pose for him. Ronnie compensates by having the bigger quad mass. But it's not as separated and striated as in his lighter form. Overrall: Dorian is better. His abdominal liability becomes even more pathetic when you realize that this is a
front shot, where his distension doesen't screw up much his shape - except in giving his abs a concave shape from the front. Look at how it becomes an even more severe liability from other angles and in other poses.
Side triceps/chest: for fcuck sake, the triceps and chest here, in their respective poses, are only half the picture: the other half is the midsection. Ronnie hits the side triceps and his distended absomen, with porrly defined obliques to boot, just jumps on you. His quads from the side, at 280+ lbs, have as much definition as Sally Struther's bottom and his calves don't help in making it look balanced. Now, he relies solely on his triceps to save the pose for him. And guess what? His side triceps
sucks: his outer triceps muscle belly is short, he has poor shape and his forearms are completely out of his balanced with his overrall arms. Awful. At least in 1998 he had a flat stomach from the side to compensate for this, even though he still had poor obliques definition and an even smaller and less blanced side triceps. To be honest with you, he would lose the side triceps, to Dorian, in either his lower or higher bodyweight.
On the front lat spread, he just can't compete with Dorian. It's too much for him. At least when it comes to Dorian's 257 lbs form. Dorian's lats, at 257 lbs, were just as dramatic, in width, as they were at 270 lbs,
but with the difference that Dorian's waist was as tiny as a man with his bone structure can have. Dorian just destroys Ronnie here. Look at the
ratio between the width of the lats vis-a-vis the waist size and he has better taper. No argument there! His abs are more defined: more points for him. His obliques are thicker, but more separted. Tie. His quads are smaller, but at 257 lbs, have as many front cuts as Ronnie hs at 287 lbs, and perhaps a little more; again, a tie. All things considered, it's game over: he wins. I'll give Ronnie the front double biceps because, even though his waist is so thick and his abs definition so poor, his biceps are so far more massive than Dorian's at this weight. Ronnie wins the most muscular at this weight, even though his concave wist from the front, still makes him lose several points.
The abdominal dostension enters into play far less on the back poses, but here the issue is a different one: Ronnie lost his details for a small increase in width, although he did have an appreciable increase in thickness. Interestingly, however, his increase in thickness, although impressive, wasn't enough to take out Dorian in many critical areas.These include: the teres major and christmas-tree. And take into consideration that Dorian, who only has better details than Ronnie in the lower bck hen they're both competing at the 250+ lbs range, acquires a major advantage in
upper back details, as well, when Ronnie is competing at 280+ lbs. Point for The Yates. In the rear lat spread, the 257 lbs Dorian is roughly equivalent to Ronnie, with the latter being perhaps slightly wider, but Dorian has better details. In the back double biceps, Ronnie's great triumph, Dorian takes him out in several ways: thicker and more etched christmas-tree and teres major, more striations on the lower back and better overral conditiong. From all angles and when considering everyhthing, the 257 lbs Dorin takes the 287 lbs Ronnie out.
In the symmetry round, for fuck sake, there isn't a single shot where the distended gut, that Ronnie has at his 280+, does
not become a liability: when standing relaxed it becomes a liability from the front because it gives the abs a concave shape; from the sides, it completely destroys his look on two of the mandatories and, when judging overrall symmetry, it is simply something which, by bodybuilding standards, takes away from all of his proportions. How? By just notlooking like something that belongs on a muscular physique. I'm sorry, but if we're talking about
overrall symmetry - as in, judging the body as a whole -, then a distended midsection is somehting that belongs on a pregnant woman or an obese man, not on someone who workouts and has a physique composed of muscle and not fat. It is only my opinion, but I think it is pretty obvious. Saying otherwise contradicts logic, reason and common sense.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
