Again you take everything as being literal. For once please try and resist. "Child" - do you ever exhibit flexibility in the use of a word. When did i ever suggest ronnies transformation, which you, despite visual evidence to the contrary, deny, was ever comparable to the one dorian achieved from 92 and 93?
The mind boggles how you 've managed to muster the arrogance to sit there and deny the incredibly obvious differences in his physique between 97 and 98/99.
I think its time you accept whats staring you in the face.
Several incorrect points here.
1. That dorian was 257lbs "ripped" has no relevance to what ronnie presented which i need'nt mention since its been repeated ad infinitum throughout the last 300 pages. Conditioning, detail, vascularity, seperation, balance, muscularity and mass which when we consider them all together with equal importance, no man has ever presented each quality to the same degree as ronnie. Bbers may have been bigger, or more ripped or "grainier" and balanced but no man has ever exhibited all these qualities like ronnie.
2. Yes people were playing catch up to dorian in terms of replicating his blend of size and conditioning but guess what, now that level has been surpassed just as the times achieved in the 100m have progressively become faster.
3. Ronnie certainly hasn't gone all downhill since 98 and 99 as you suggest. Which of his renditions is superior may come down to personal preference but i think we can all agree that he dropped in 2000, surpassed that condition at the ASC 01 the following year only to get worse that very same year and continue the slide until 2003 where he presented a physique far superior to the previous 2 Mr O's, then got worse in 2004 then better in 2005 which incidently was superior to 2001 and 2002.
1998 Ronnie gets beat by 93 yates in terms of and conditioning but balance he exceeds yates i'm afraid. Mass is debatable; on the scales dorian is the winner however ronnie appears just as large if not larger tha yates due to his smaller joints. Its all illusion of course but this fact somewhat renders yates mass advantage moot.
Its interesting how you avoid using criteria that ronnie clearly has the edge in such as separation, detail and aesthetics.
On a side note and not from this thread, i'd appreciate if you stop insinuating that i dislike yates simply because he is white. I myself am caucasion of mixed origin and am certainly not a racist.
Again you take everything as being literal. For once please try and resist. "Child" - do you ever exhibit flexibility in the use of a word. When did i ever suggest ronnies transformation, which you, despite visual evidence to the contrary, deny, was ever comparable to the one dorian achieved from 92 and 93?
The mind boggles how you 've managed to muster the arrogance to sit there and deny the incredibly obvious differences in his physique between 97 and 98/99.
I think its time you accept whats staring you in the face.
Stop being so melodramatic seriously
again Ronnie's transformation from 96/97 to 1998 was nothing more than conditioning period. he's the same Ronnie as he was in 96/97 just dryer. from 1998 to 1999 he gained roughly 8 pounds and looked much fuller but his conditioning from 98 suffered a tad.
Several incorrect points here.
1. That dorian was 257lbs "ripped" has no relevance to what ronnie presented which i need'nt mention since its been repeated ad infinitum throughout the last 300 pages. Conditioning, detail, vascularity, seperation, balance, muscularity and mass which when we consider them all together with equal importance, no man has ever presented each quality to the same degree as ronnie. Bbers may have been bigger, or more ripped or "grainier" and balanced but no man has ever exhibited all these qualities like ronnie.
Again how you make such base claims is beyond me. the only bodybuilder to exhibit the combo of of the qualities you listed is Ronnie
Conditioning - Ronnie has never been as dry & grainy as Dorian while retaining massive size & density , his conditioning has been refered to has " having tissue paper for skin " and " having skin painted over raw muscle "
Detail - Dorian's lowerlats & erctor spinae were more detailed that any version of Ronnie , gastrocnemius inner & outer head are more detailed than Ronnie as Dorian's sloeus and tibialis. and Dorian has the edge in detail in the satorius. Dorian's abdominals , serratus , intercostals and obliques were all more detailed than Ronnie.
Now Ronnie has the edge in detail in the retus femoris , biceps/biceps brachialis , leg biceps , and has slightly better detail in the pec/delt tie-in and Ronnie's anterior deltoid is more detailed that Dorian. tricpes Ronnie has the egde in striations but thats it.
Both have striated chests both have striated glutes . Ronnie has gyno and that would be used against him. delts are about the same with the exception anterior in terms of detail . forearms the same , detail in the middle & upper back is about the same.
vascularity in all seriousness you're grasping at straws , Ronnie is more vascular but this isn't a contest winner ( even in combo ) if you think it is you're just not being honest with yourself
seperation see detail above Ronnie has the edge in some parts & Dorian in others
balance This I wont even entertain Ronnie is NO WHERE near Dorian in terms of muscular balance
muscularity and mass Dorian beat Ronnie in both VS Ronnie 98/99 even though they weighed the same in 99
Ronnie didn't bring anything new to the table that Dorian himself didn't showcase 5 years earlier. the Coleman-camp loves to try an reduce Dorian down to " calves & back " obviously he was much more. up until Yates NO bodybuilder previously had the combo of
musuclar bulk , muscular density balanced development and extreme conditioning Ronnie may have came close in 98 but he never had Dorian's density and balance and and Dorian edged him out in conditioning & bulk . in 1999 Ronnie could match Yates for musuclar bulk but again trailed in density , balance and conditioning.
2. Yes people were playing catch up to dorian in terms of replicating his blend of size and conditioning but guess what, now that level has been surpassed just as the times achieved in the 100m have progressively become faster.
You forgot to add muscular balance & muscular density. and who has surpassed Dorian in terms of
musuclar bulk , muscular density balanced development and extreme conditioning I can't think of anyone . while some have come close in size and balance in all honesty I can't think of anyone who has presented the the entire combo.
Cutler surpassed Dorian in muscular size and matched him for balance but Cutler doesn't have the density & extreme conditioning .
3. Ronnie certainly hasn't gone all downhill since 98 and 99 as you suggest. Which of his renditions is superior may come down to personal preference but i think we can all agree that he dropped in 2000, surpassed that condition at the ASC 01 the following year only to get worse that very same year and continue the slide until 2003 where he presented a physique far superior to the previous 2 Mr O's, then got worse in 2004 then better in 2005 which incidently was superior to 2001 and 2002.
I wholeheartedly disagree ! I should have elaborated a tad more when I said he's gone down drastically since 99 , I meant in terms of his Olympia appearences. 2001 Arnold Classic was fantastic. Ronnie looke amazing in 1996 much better than 1997 , 98 and 99 awesome. 2000 Mr Olympia way to heavier and holding water. 2001 Olympia
2002
2003 that gut just ruins it for me seriously you look at 1998/99 Olympia compared to 2003 and what a fall from grace. 2004
2005 he looked okay . he has steadily and progressively deteriorated over the years . like Yates he looked best at the begining of his career.
1998 Ronnie gets beat by 93 yates in terms of and conditioning but balance he exceeds yates i'm afraid. Mass is debatable; on the scales dorian is the winner however ronnie appears just as large if not larger tha yates due to his smaller joints. Its all illusion of course but this fact somewhat renders yates mass advantage moot.
Its interesting how you avoid using criteria that ronnie clearly has the edge in such as separation, detail and aesthetics.
1998 Ronnie gets beat by 93 Yates in terms of muscular bulk , muscle density , musuclar balance & conditioning . Mass is clearly NOT debatable he's 5'10" 257lbs compared to 5'11" 249lbs lol yes Ronnie has the illusion of appearing bigger but factor in Dorian's density with a sloid eight pound advantage and that becomes moot.
Ronnie doesn't clearly have the edge in separation & detail ( see above ) and aesthetics
one Ronnie isn't an aesthetic bodybuilder I'm sorry to inform you of this but he just isn't lol that edge would mean something if he was Chris Cormier but he's not thats why I don't entertain that nonsense .
On a side note and not from this thread, i'd appreciate if you stop insinuating that i dislike yates simply because he is white. I myself am caucasion of mixed origin and am certainly not a racist.
Lets not be hypocritical , you ' insinuated ' I " ripped other members pictures apart " which I haven't . so it works both ways sport.
This is a summary of what the judges are looking for in all the mandatory poses
The comparisons of the compulsory poses cannot be overemphasized
as these comparisons will help the judge to decide
which competitor has the superior physique from the standpoint of
muscular bulk, balanced development, muscular density and
definition.These are exactly the reasons why I believe Dorian would beat Ronnie ( among others ) Dorian compared to Ronnie ( 98 ) has the clear cut edge in muscular bulk , balanced development and muscular density and we could push the definition and Dorian is still the clear cut winner. Dorian compared to Ronnie ( 99 ) musuclar bulk is a push , he still edge Ronnie out in terms of musuclar balance , muscular density and definition.
While it may be close I think Dorian would beat able to beat Ronnie from either year. to say Ronnie either year is so far of anything that Dorian displayed is delusional and fantasy , but we already know where you stand lol
