Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[pumpster]

Obsessing on his scores is truly silly, considering that this thread has *nothing* to do with how he did in those contests!

[IceCold]

Obsessing on his scores is truly silly, considering that this thread has *nothing* to do with how he did in those contests!

not entirely true.

how can a guy with so many flaws (according to you) get perfect scores? 

as 'superior' you claim ronnie is, his score sheets are far worse than yates against much less competitive competition.

how else would you compare 2 guys who competed at different times.  pictures?  that's subjective.  you think one thing, i think another. 

score sheets, like any number represent an objective item.  just like stats in any sport. 

[pumpster]

how can a guy with so many flaws (according to you) get perfect scores? 

as 'superior' you claim ronnie is, his score sheets are far worse than yates against much less competitive competition.

Uh, because Weider's a commercial enterprise with a history of fixing the results. Excatly why most of their top guys retired or left the IFBB in the early 80s. 

[pobrecito]

Uh, because Weider's a commercial enterprise with a history of fixing the results. Excatly why most of their top guys retired or left the IFBB in the early 80s. 

just like the fix that won Ronnie the title in 2001

[pumpster]

just like the fix that won Ronnie the title in 2001

THIS wasn't a winner-forget all your misguided crap about "perfect scores" it's a joke except to you. Obviously your claims of "perfect scores" make no sense given the reality of what happened.

[pobrecito]

THIS wasn't a winner-forget all your misguided crap about "perfect scores" it's a joke except to you. Obviously your claims of "perfect scores" make no sense given the reality of what happened.

uhh, try sending your words to the right person

I have never claimed that Dorian should have won in '97, I have the video and I cringe watching his posing routine, BUT, what I do maintain is that the Mr. Olympia IS a dynasty, always has always will, becuase if you don't set up a dynasty, what separates the Mr. Olympia from any other show? As wrong as it may have been, if Dorian competed in 98, he would have won, and would have continued to win as long as he wanted, that's just the politics of it. The same case can be said for Coleman in 2001. He lost, the judges said it, he knew it, but the dynasty had to continue, same as did for Dorian..

[NeoSeminole]

I have never claimed that Dorian should have won in '97, I have the video and I cringe watching his posing routine, BUT, what I do maintain is that the Mr. Olympia IS a dynasty, always has always will, becuase if you don't set up a dynasty, what separates the Mr. Olympia from any other show? As wrong as it may have been, if Dorian competed in 98, he would have won, and would have continued to win as long as he wanted, that's just the politics of it. The same case can be said for Coleman in 2001. He lost, the judges said it, he knew it, but the dynasty had to continue, same as did for Dorian..

I agree with you about dynasties adding to the Mr. Olympia's prestige. However, I disagree about Dorian winning if he continued to compete. Dorian was plagued with torn muscles and an expanding waistline. Ronnie has a better structure for carrying more muscle. Dorian would eventually have lost if he tried to play the size game with Ronnie.

[IceCold]

THIS wasn't a winner-forget all your misguided crap about "perfect scores" it's a joke except to you. Obviously your claims of "perfect scores" make no sense given the reality of what happened.

write the judges a letter.

[IceCold]

Uh, because Weider's a commercial enterprise with a history of fixing the results. Excatly why most of their top guys retired or left the IFBB in the early 80s. 

or was it bc of money?

eddie robinson and gary strydom were salaried over 300k a year from McMahon. 

that's more than dorian or ronnie ever got from weider or metrx.

[Beener]

Yknow, you really cant compare the two. Ronnie has an obvious advantage: Hes black.

[Yorkie T]

ronnies awesome,sometimes you look at him and think wow he looks amazing...then other times he looks terrible.i remember seeing a pic of him onstage when federov finished third behind him and cutler and it was the first time i thought that he looked like crap, he was just bulbous everywhere.

then you see a pic of him like in reply 8533 and he looks fvcking awesome..dunno why he looks so different at times

[Bear]

obvisoulsy, his mass, dryness, hardness, and density was enough to compensate his "flaws" (according to you).  the judges liked it.  he was the most dominant mr. olympia ever.  based on the score sheets and competition.  half of coleman's wins were by less than four points, 2 to flex and 3 to cutler and 2 to levrone.  yates got perfect scores in 5 of his 6 Olympia's and no one really close.  check the score sheets. 


meanwhile, coleman looses to gustavo 2 years in a row during the challenge round and it comes down to one pose between him and cutler in 04 and looses 2 rounds in 01.

one of the challenge rounds in 05 was decided by former mr. olympias.  but you and hulkster are the true authority.



his chest was always cross striated. 



hulkster, this is seperation BETWEEN muscle groups.



a clear distinction between every muscle group of the upper body. 


couldnt match up in terms of size, cuts, vascularity, refinement, shape, aesthetics, taper, balance and definition in certain areas like the front of the arms, chest and delts.? 


you know you are right.  dorian wasnt very vascular (neither was flex or jay), his taper was ok - better than some of the other big guys, his balance was ok.  his arms could have been bigger, etc, etc.

defintion in his arms, delts, and chest.  that was ok as well.  wasnt the best and not as good as colemans.  but its not as bad as you claim.

but you know what, dorian's mass, hardness, and dryness was enough to compensate for the lack of whatever flaws you say he has.  he beat some of the biggest guys ever (nasser, paul, fux) and some of the most complete ever like shawn and flex, and kevin as well.  apparently, the judges though he had the best overall package.  dorian's track record speaks for it self.  if you have a problem with that, than take that up with the judges. 









 

I still don't understand how he can have got all those perfect scores when he only had one arm for like 4 contests?!?!?!?

[pumpster]

I still don't understand how he can have got all those perfect scores when he only had one arm for like 4 contests?!?!?!?

Only fools & suckers would waste any time obsessing on scoring, unless of course scoring's the only remaining excuse for his wins over better more deserving BBs.

[Hulkster]

Question for IceCold:

would you not say that a Multi-time Mr. O who has smooth quads, weak arms, not so great chest and a taper like this:



is at the very least overrated?

a 6 TIME Mr. O. should not have flaws this big. sorry.



look at this. if this is not overrated, I don't know what is..

I have yet to see ANY kind of well thought out rebuttal to the claim that Yates was not overrated.

All you guys can do is sceam about the score cards, yet when you look at the PICS and VIDEOS they actually SUPPORT the claim that Yates was overrated, because they show that he looks like THIS:


smooth. smooth. smooth. Overrated for sure.

Can anyone explain why Yates was NOT Overrated?


I think it would be pretty hard...

[IceCold]

you are the only one i've ever heard of yates being overrated.


those are flaws that you claim he has, not the judges.  they decide contests - not you or pumpster.

you look at the clips and pics and see one thing, i see another.  that's just your opinion.

try wathcing an actual recording of a mr. olympia that yates competed in, not just a clip on youtube with shitty quality. 

how can the most dominant bodybuilder of all time be considered overrated?  and what YOU consider his shortcomings are, arent enough evidence or validity. 

he's only the most dominant bber ever.  in 93, he wasnt even called out bc it was so apparent how dominant he was.  that never happened or will never happen to ronnie.













you can post any pics you want, he still isnt overrated.  yates' track record speaks for itself, not YOUR opinion.

[pumpster]

those are flaws that you claim he has, not the judges.  they decide contests - not you or pumpster.

you look at the clips and pics and see one thing, i see another.  that's just your opinion.

try wathcing an actual recording of a mr. olympia that yates competed in, not just a clip on youtube with shitty quality. 

Copious numbers of comparative video clips here have proven Coleman's dominance over & over; it is you that are late to that reality. No one else including ND & SUCKY have debated the varacity of video clips at any time; instead they continually elected to avoid the obvious conclusions. Your desperate backpeddle re: videos is meaningless.

Getbig generally agrees with this assessement-it's not a matter of taste as you claim.  
Poll:
Coleman >>> Yates.


Apparently the video evidence you brought up and the overall concensus here doesn't agree with you.

[pumpster]

The difference is embarassing; not merely a matter of taste. Other than density, dryness and conditioning which are just a few of the criterion, he's dominates on virtually every other basis, which BTW you selectively avoid discussing:

-Muscle maturity
-Refinement
-Detail
-Shape
-Tapers - lat/shoulder to waist (front/back), arm to wrist ratio, Quad to hip/knee ratio
-Aesthetics
-Size
-Vascularity
-Upper body balance
-Cuts - Yates had virtually nothing in the following areas:

[pobrecito]

This is the best package ever seen on the Olympia stage, 1999 Ronnie. In my opinion, 1993 Dorian ranks 2nd most impressive after reviewing both the 93 and 99 olympia tapes.

[IceCold]

pumpster, what is your point?


you prefer ronnie,  i prefer dorian. so what. 

even in all the comparions pics you just posted.  i prefer yates.  also, in the last pic.  dorian isnt even really flexing his lats.  look how far out coleman's arms are vs. dorian's.  the camera angel also helps.  no way are ronnie's calves the same size as dorian's.  even at his heaviest offeseaon weight. 

in the list of everything you mention, that yates lacks, i already acknowledged that.  but his combo of mass, conditioning, and hardness was enough to overcome those qualities that he lacked - based on his record and the guys that he beat.  not what you and hulkster claim.

would dorian beat ronnie?  probably.  i think that the 03 version would probably beat dorian, but it would be close.  how could it not be when gustavo, gunter, and jay have been close.  are you saying that they are better bodybuilders than dorian was?  coleman doesnt even dominate those guys, why would you think he would completely dominate dorian?

that was my whole point to this thread, and you act like me saying ronnie vs. dorian would be a good battle is the same thing as ronnie vs. kenny jones.

[pumpster]

what is your point?

even in all the comparions pics you just posted.  i prefer yates.  also, in the last pic.

Psssst....you're close to ALONE in those sentiments..

[Hulkster]

those are flaws that you claim he has, not the judges.

so you are saying he has great arms and quads

the flaws were always there, the judges knew about them, but did not CARE because he was larger and wider than his main competition, Shawn and Flex.

Just because the judges were wrong in their "sweeping aside" of these huge flaws in favor of mass does NOT mean that I should be wrong and do the same thing.

I don't follow.

I make up my own assessments based on what I see, not what others have said in the past..

[Hulkster]

how can the most dominant bodybuilder of all time be considered overrated?

did you not read my post?

How can the "most dominant bodybuilder ever" have relatively weak arms, quads, chest and taper?

Answer: because he was OVERRATED thats how!


the most dominant bodybuilder EVER should not look anywhere near this bad unless he was overrated.

[pumpster]

the most dominant bodybuilder EVER should not look anywhere near this bad unless he was overrated.

He was inarguably the most dominant tier-B Olympian, along with Haney. He deserves a lot of credit for it.

[Hulkster]

you can post any pics you want, he still isnt overrated

great argument.


 

the pics and videos themselves are what show that Yates was overrated in the first place.

They show the judges incorrect obsession with mass/width over quality, shape and detail at the time.

Look to 1994 and 1996 as great examples of this.




1996 was another year where Shawn was a questionable second place..

[Hulkster]

This is the best package ever seen on the Olympia stage, 1999 Ronnie

agreed - the 1999 prejudging in particular, where Ronnie did appear a little tighter than at the night show, was amazing.