Author Topic: Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce  (Read 3515491 times)

suckmymuscle

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9025 on: September 18, 2006, 09:11:20 AM »
I have said it before and I will say it again:

I do not think that even Dorian 93 would fair well against peak ronnie.

why?

because all of the advantages that enable dorian to dominate would be GONE.

he would not be wider

  Bullshit. Dorian in 1993 was definitely wider than the 1999 Coleman. It was only in 2003 that Ronnie became wider than Dorian, and when it comes to lat width, Dorian could still hold his own against even the 2003. Which means that he destroys the 1999 Coleman.

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he would not be bigger

  I beg to differ! While tey were exactly the same weight, the 1993 or 1995 Olympia Dorians had greater muscularity than the 1999 Coleman. Check out pictures and you'll see that Dorian's pecs, delts, triceps, latissimus, teres maor and minor and infra-spinatus were thicker than Coleman's. The reason why Dorian is mre muscular at a similar bodyweight is because he's shorter and came in dryer, so he had a higher amount of lean tissue, despite weighing the same.

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he would (and never was) as shapely

  Define "shapely". I do think Ronnie had a better taper and a more classical V-type silhouette than Dorian, but this is not so much the case in 1999. If you're talking about overrall fullness, then I agree with you that Ronnie has the advantage. But when it comes to taper and midsection, the Ronnie of 1999 was clearly worse than the one of 1998 and no better than Dorian. The 1999 Ronald might still have had a slightly better taper than the Dorian from 1993 and 1995, but Yates' midsection was clearly superior, with Dorian having a flat stomach and separated abdominals and serratus. The worst think about the 257 lbs Coleman, from 1999, is that he already had a gut distension; at a similar bodyweight, the 1993 Dorian had a flat stomach.

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And he was never as detailed.

  I think the 1993 and 1995 Dorians had far more details than you give him credit for. Look at his pics, and you'll see that he had as much overrall back details as Coleman in 1999, with the difference that his back was dryer, thicker and harder. Dorian's deltoids and chest were also full of striations, as well as his abdominals and serratus. So it's non-sense saying that Dorian lacked details.

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He beat guys who had better detail and individual muscle shape because he was bigger physically and had more width.

  Non-sense! Dorian defeated guys because he was bigger, harder and had more details than they did, at least when it came to having a back that looked like a human anatomy chart. He also defeatedf guys who were heavier than him and that, at least in two cases - Fux and Nasser - surpassed Dorian for muscularity on several muscle groups. Dorian won Sandows because he was a very big guy who also brought a great deal of quality to his mass(density, conditioning, separations and balance), and who also had the tightest midsection ever seen on a guy so big.

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He did not win because of quality

  See my previous point. If this were true, then a much bigger Fux, with even longer muscle bellies, would have defeated him. Or a 285 lbs Nasser - as big as Coleman in 2003! -, who outweighed him by almost 30 lbs.

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In ronnie, he would face the effective combo of size, shape width AND detail, a combo he never faced before except in Lee Haney.

  Well, Ronnie was the same weight as Dorian at the 1996 Olympia, and brought onstage his trademarked musle fullness and taper. Surprise: Dorian defeated him flat out on the relaxed round and,on the two call-outs between the two, Dorian defeated him with straight-firsts scores. And the 1996 Olympia Ronnie was almost a carbon-opy of his CPC frm of that same year, which defeated, I might add, no other than Wheeler! You lose, Hulkster.

  These are all pics from the 1993 Olympia, proving that Dorian had an inhuman muscularity, density and conditioning, coupled with shape, separations and striations I'll match these against the 1999 Olympia Ronnie any day. ;)

SUCKMYMUSCLE









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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9026 on: September 18, 2006, 11:50:12 AM »
I have said it before and I will say it again:

I do not think that even Dorian 93 would fair well against peak ronnie.

why?

because all of the advantages that enable dorian to dominate would be GONE.

he would not be wider

he would not be bigger

he would (and never was) as shapely

And he was never as detailed.

He beat guys who had better detail and individual muscle shape because he was bigger physically and had more width.

He did not win because of quality

In ronnie, he would face the effective combo of size, shape width AND detail, a combo he never faced before except in Lee Haney.

and he lost the contest to him.


Ronnie 99 would do the exact same thing to Yates that Haney did, for many of the same reasons.....



i assume by 'peak ronnie' you mean in 99.

dorian and ron were both 257, but yates appeared much larger, thicker, and denser than ronnie did at that same weight - in better condition.

coleman has the edge in shape, details, etc.  which one would the judges choose?

but i think the judges would choose dorian.  it seems that they reward mass and conditioning over anything else. 

i was reading the 99 Olympia report the other day in FLEX of Jan. 00, and coleman looked good, but so did flex. flex has the better structure, midsection, better arms (he has a full bicep, not a half like coleman).  also, flex's quads looked better.  ronnie has never had any cross striations on his thighs. 

however, flex clearly was not at his best - like he was in 93 when he got completely destroyed by dorian.  it was close between flex and coleman, and not even close between dorian and flex.  hmmm??


dorian won the muscualrity round in 91 when he and haney competed against each other.  the first time anyone did that to haney.  haney himself said that if they competed the following year, dorian would win.  he pushed the
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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9027 on: September 18, 2006, 12:05:07 PM »

i assume by 'peak ronnie' you mean in 99.

dorian and ron were both 257, but yates appeared much larger, thicker, and denser than ronnie did at that same weight - in better condition.

coleman has the edge in shape, details, etc.  which one would the judges choose?

but i think the judges would choose dorian.  it seems that they reward mass and conditioning over anything else. 

i was reading the 99 Olympia report the other day in FLEX of Jan. 00, and coleman looked good, but so did flex. flex has the better structure, midsection, better arms (he has a full bicep, not a half like coleman).  also, flex's quads looked better.  ronnie has never had any cross striations on his thighs. 

however, flex clearly was not at his best - like he was in 93 when he got completely destroyed by dorian.  it was close between flex and coleman, and not even close between dorian and flex.  hmmm??


dorian won the muscualrity round in 91 when he and haney competed against each other.  the first time anyone did that to haney.  haney himself said that if they competed the following year, dorian would win.  he pushed the

Pay note to the bit in bold.

You sir are an idiot. Ronnie only has half a bicep? Moron, they have short insertions thats all. By your reasoning, every bodybuilder with longer muscle attachments would have better biceps than ron.

And one last thing, your obviosly very ignorant on how wheeler's arms looked that way in 99.

Do some research before you start praising someone for using synthol.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9028 on: September 18, 2006, 01:25:08 PM »
i assume by 'peak ronnie' you mean in 99.

however, flex clearly was not at his best - like he was in 93 when he got completely destroyed by dorian.  it was close between flex and coleman, and not even close between dorian and flex.  hmmm??

what the hell are you babbling about? Flex doesn't look like he's getting destroyed here.










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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9029 on: September 18, 2006, 01:29:40 PM »
what the hell are you babbling about? Flex doesn't look like he's getting destroyed here.











That's because it's all from the front. Yates was nothing special from the front compared to the top6. It was from behind where he won the mr. O.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9030 on: September 18, 2006, 02:40:07 PM »
and then you have 99 ronnie, who was special from the front AND the back:




Yates always faced people that could look equal or better than him from the front (eg. Flex, Nasser, Shawn)

but he always beat them from the back (because of width) which was given preference in the judges minds.

In ronnie, he would face someone he has NEVER faced before except in Lee Haney's case: someone who was not only better from the front but could ALSO equal his Back.

And guess what?

the result of Yates-Coleman would be no different than Yates-Haney for these reasons..

Yates would lose.
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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9031 on: September 18, 2006, 02:42:46 PM »
what the hell are you babbling about? Flex doesn't look like he's getting destroyed here.











Is it me, or does Flex look better in almost every one of those shots?

the only one that doesn't is the side chest but the pic is so dark you can barely see flex (at least on my ancient computer monitor :))

once again: the judges seemed to favor size over quality, which is something I do not personally agree with.
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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9032 on: September 18, 2006, 02:50:49 PM »
Quote
flex has the better structure, midsection, better arms (he has a full bicep, not a half like coleman).

better arms? are you an idiot?




half a bicep?



what the hell are you talking about? ronnie's arms are easily better than Flex's, biceps and all.
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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9033 on: September 18, 2006, 08:18:52 PM »
ronnie has very short biceps, therefore he has a very high peak.

i think flex overall has better arms.  his triceps are bigger, coleman's lateral head is so narrow and i think his shape to his biceps are better than ronnies. 

like you always say hulkster, quality over quantity.
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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9034 on: September 18, 2006, 08:20:12 PM »
Pay note to the bit in bold.

You sir are an idiot. Ronnie only has half a bicep? Moron, they have short insertions thats all. By your reasoning, every bodybuilder with longer muscle attachments would have better biceps than ron.

And one last thing, your obviosly very ignorant on how wheeler's arms looked that way in 99.

Do some research before you start praising someone for using synthol.


i meant by half a bicep that his biceps are very short.  which is good for a peak. 

personally, i admire arms like sergio and kevin.  not many guys have the long, somewhat flatish biceps.  its unique.

good point about the synthol.  i forgot to take that into consideration. 
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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9035 on: September 18, 2006, 08:29:52 PM »
ronnie has very short biceps, therefore he has a very high peak.

i think flex overall has better arms.  his triceps are bigger, coleman's lateral head is so narrow and i think his shape to his biceps are better than ronnies. 

like you always say hulkster, quality over quantity.





I would disagree! 8)
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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9036 on: September 18, 2006, 08:58:42 PM »
Hulkster, watching you debate with Suckmymuscle is like watch Jocylien Pelletier in a posedown with Flex Wheeler. Suckmymuscles assertions and expostulations are backed by logic and sustantiations.

Your Arguments are purley subjective and openended. YOu loose everytime, but YOu get an 'A' for effort.
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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9037 on: September 18, 2006, 09:02:49 PM »
Quote
Suckmymuscles assertions and expostulations are backed by logic and sustantiations.


hahahahahahaha
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pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9038 on: September 18, 2006, 09:53:22 PM »
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No problem. Here's Ronnie getting some massive anal pounding from Dozer, in one of Coleman's signture shots...
SUCK the only one remaining who doesn't recognize this as the infamous Yates "no bis" shot; for once SUCK is right it is, sadly, a pathetic Yates "signature" shot...I think the only anal pounding is your fantasy involving you and Yates ;D..and incidentally, Yates' back is dead on to the camera, while Coleman's is on an angle-nice choice of a shot that makes no point whatsever, other than to confirm Coleman's dominance in arms.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9039 on: September 18, 2006, 09:56:48 PM »
Here's another, SUCK..open wide..

suckmymuscle

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9040 on: September 19, 2006, 04:36:30 AM »
  Bullshit. Dorian in 1993 was definitely wider than the 1999 Coleman. It was only in 2003 that Ronnie became wider than Dorian, and when it comes to lat width, Dorian could still hold his own against even the 2003. Which means that he destroys the 1999 Coleman.

  I beg to differ! While tey were exactly the same weight, the 1993 or 1995 Olympia Dorians had greater muscularity than the 1999 Coleman. Check out pictures and you'll see that Dorian's pecs, delts, triceps, latissimus, teres maor and minor and infra-spinatus were thicker than Coleman's. The reason why Dorian is mre muscular at a similar bodyweight is because he's shorter and came in dryer, so he had a higher amount of lean tissue, despite weighing the same.

  Define "shapely". I do think Ronnie had a better taper and a more classical V-type silhouette than Dorian, but this is not so much the case in 1999. If you're talking about overrall fullness, then I agree with you that Ronnie has the advantage. But when it comes to taper and midsection, the Ronnie of 1999 was clearly worse than the one of 1998 and no better than Dorian. The 1999 Ronald might still have had a slightly better taper than the Dorian from 1993 and 1995, but Yates' midsection was clearly superior, with Dorian having a flat stomach and separated abdominals and serratus. The worst think about the 257 lbs Coleman, from 1999, is that he already had a gut distension; at a similar bodyweight, the 1993 Dorian had a flat stomach.

  I think the 1993 and 1995 Dorians had far more details than you give him credit for. Look at his pics, and you'll see that he had as much overrall back details as Coleman in 1999, with the difference that his back was dryer, thicker and harder. Dorian's deltoids and chest were also full of striations, as well as his abdominals and serratus. So it's non-sense saying that Dorian lacked details.

  Non-sense! Dorian defeated guys because he was bigger, harder and had more details than they did, at least when it came to having a back that looked like a human anatomy chart. He also defeatedf guys who were heavier than him and that, at least in two cases - Fux and Nasser - surpassed Dorian for muscularity on several muscle groups. Dorian won Sandows because he was a very big guy who also brought a great deal of quality to his mass(density, conditioning, separations and balance), and who also had the tightest midsection ever seen on a guy so big.

  See my previous point. If this were true, then a much bigger Fux, with even longer muscle bellies, would have defeated him. Or a 285 lbs Nasser - as big as Coleman in 2003! -, who outweighed him by almost 30 lbs.

  Well, Ronnie was the same weight as Dorian at the 1996 Olympia, and brought onstage his trademarked musle fullness and taper. Surprise: Dorian defeated him flat out on the relaxed round and,on the two call-outs between the two, Dorian defeated him with straight-firsts scores. And the 1996 Olympia Ronnie was almost a carbon-opy of his CPC frm of that same year, which defeated, I might add, no other than Wheeler! You lose, Hulkster.

  These are all pics from the 1993 Olympia, proving that Dorian had an inhuman muscularity, density and conditioning, coupled with shape, separations and striations I'll match these against the 1999 Olympia Ronnie any day. ;)

SUCKMYMUSCLE

  Well, since this post of mine went unanswered, I have nothing to add. Silence from your opponents is an admission of defeat. ;)

SUCKMYMUSCLE

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9041 on: September 19, 2006, 10:45:10 AM »
Then by your own logic, you admit defeat to me since you never respond to my post. ;)

Dorian's triceps were thicker, denser and more striated than that of the 1998 and 1999 Olympia Ronnies. To make it even worse for you and your sophomori arguments, Dorian's triceps are also genetically superior to Ronnie's, since they insert lower in the tendom - the same reason why Ronnie's biceps are superior to Dorian's.

Perhaps, but Ronnie's triceps in 03 were bigger and more striated than Dorian's. You keep forgetting the triceps are composed of 3 muscles: the lateral, medial, and long heads. Ronnie destroyed Dorian in the medial and long heads. This is evident in any mandatory pose. Ronnie's triceps looked like hanging slabs of muscle from his upper arm while Dorian's looked smooth and flat. The only part of the triceps where Dorian might beat Ronnie is the lateral head. However, it comes down to personal preference. Dorian's lateral head is thicker but shorter. Ronnie's lateral head is longer and striated but not as thick. Furthermore, Ronnie's triceps had better separation between all heads.




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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9042 on: September 19, 2006, 10:47:04 AM »
arguing over who has better medial or long triceps heads is a bit extreme. 
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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9043 on: September 19, 2006, 10:58:04 AM »
I feel the same way about calves and inner thigh muscles. However, I feel compelled to refute people who make idiotic statements in this discussion. The triceps are comprised of 3 muscles. Sucky claims Dorian has better triceps than Ronnie, but this is simply not true. Ronnie destroys Dorian in 2 of the 3 triceps muscles and ties him in the other. Therefore, Ronnie has the better triceps.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9044 on: September 19, 2006, 11:11:21 AM »
I feel the same way about calves and inner thigh muscles. However, I feel compelled to refute people who make idiotic statements in this discussion. The triceps are comprised of 3 muscles. Sucky claims Dorian has better triceps than Ronnie, but this is simply not true. Ronnie destroys Dorian in 2 of the 3 triceps muscles and ties him in the other. Therefore, Ronnie has the better triceps.

calves are different.  they are an entire muscle group.  that would be like aruging who has better inner or outter calves.

ronnie does not "tie" dorian in the 'other' tricep.  genetically, ronnie's long head is SOOO narrow. 
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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9045 on: September 19, 2006, 11:30:20 AM »
Flex Wheeler: RC wins hands down:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=95394.0


Quote
arguing over who has better medial or long triceps heads is a bit extreme. 
Not to anyone who understands anatomy and the fact that Yates' side-tri is by itself misleading, to novices.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9046 on: September 19, 2006, 11:42:57 AM »
calves are different.  they are an entire muscle group.  that would be like aruging who has better inner or outter calves.

The triceps are composed of 3 muscles; the calves are made up of 2 muscles. The triceps are visible in every pose. Just b/c you can't see the medial or long heads in some poses doesn't mean you can't see them in others. In poses like the front and rear double biceps, Ronnie's superiority in triceps is very obvious.

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ronnie does not "tie" dorian in the 'other' tricep.  genetically, ronnie's long head is SOOO narrow. 

I said they are tied b/c it depends on personal prefernce. Dorian's lateral triceps are thicker but shorter. Ronnie's are longer and more striated but thinner. Even if Dorian had better lateral triceps, Ronnie still wins overall.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9047 on: September 19, 2006, 01:32:21 PM »
Flex Wheeler: RC wins hands down:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=95394.0

Not to anyone who understands anatomy and the fact that Yates' side-tri is by itself misleading, to novices.


just getting a bit too picky.
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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9048 on: September 19, 2006, 02:30:31 PM »
Flex Wheeler: RC wins hands down:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=95394.0

Not to anyone who understands anatomy and the fact that Yates' side-tri is by itself misleading, to novices.

Lee Priest: Dorian wins hands down

HOW DO YOU FEEL DORIAN WOULD FAIR AGAINST RONNIE COLEMAN NOW?

I think Dorian at his best (1993) would easily beat Ronnie. Dorian might not be as symmetrical as Ronnie, but all over he was more complete and in better condition at his best.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #9049 on: September 19, 2006, 02:34:15 PM »
Quote
ronnie does not "tie" dorian in the 'other' tricep.  genetically, ronnie's long head is SOOO narrow. 
*No one* else has noticed this or thinks it's a factor-the author of this strange opinion should've thought of that before rendering what is in effect his own bias that doesn't hold any water.  ;),  Basically this screwy opinion reflects more on the person making it.


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Lee Priest: Dorian wins hands down

HOW DO YOU FEEL DORIAN WOULD FAIR AGAINST RONNIE COLEMAN NOW?

I think Dorian at his best (1993) would easily beat Ronnie. Dorian might not be as symmetrical as Ronnie, but all over he was more complete and in better condition at his best.
Well-known that Priest is unstable-currently sporting a facial tat, wasting time associating with Valvolino.. ::)