Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[NeoSeminole]

No I explained to you four times already , conditioning is the lack of bodyfat , sub-q fat and water , if you have any of these than you can't see the underlying muscle to its fullest

Everything you said can be equally applied to Dorian or Ronnie. I don't see how Dorian's conditioning blows Ronnie away. The only difference I see is Dorian has striations in his lower back and his midsection is sharper. However, Ronnie has better details in his delts, arms, and quads. This is why I keep saying Ronnie in 03 had the same conditioning as 95 Dorian. I'm not just saying this to spite you. They each displayed the "underlying muscle to its fullest" in separate areas, yet the net total of their details were the same.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Everything you said can be equally applied to Dorian or Ronnie. I don't see how Dorian's conditioning blows Ronnie away. The only difference I see is Dorian has striations in his lower back and his midsection is sharper. However, Ronnie has better details in his delts, arms, and quads. This is why I keep saying Ronnie in 03 had the same conditioning as 95 Dorian. I'm not just saying this to spite you. They each displayed the "underlying muscle to its fullest" in separate areas, yet the net total of their details were the same.

See this is where I disagree , Ronnie's back isn't anywhere as hard as Dorian's in 95 and its not just in terms of striations , I'm talking about overall , Ronnie's back isn't as detailed or seperated , Ronnie's pecs and arms never really have a problem being dry.. look at 2004 for example , the same with his hams & glutes , his quads have shown much better detail when he is lighter and seperation , his midsection in 2003 while showed striations and good seperation did NOT have the extreme dryness of Yates 95 or Ronnie 98 his delts have displayed much better detail & seperation when he is lighter

2003 Ronnie's conditioning was VERY GOOD for a man his size , thats why all the hub-bub buts its not as great as Yates 93/95 or Ronnie 98/01 ASC

[pumpster]

Quote from: pumpster on Today at 07:11:40 PM
We call that the "no bis" shot-totally ruins the pose for Yates, BTW since it's referred to by judges as the "rear double-biceps"..

its the name if the fucking pose. biceps are only a fraction of what is getting looked at.

It's not for a pompous ass like you to decide for us what is important in the Dorian "no bis" shot you dick. 

Yet another shot of Yates owned in this pose..

[Hulkster]

don't mistake his apparent lack of overwhelming striations and vasculairty as lack of dryness because its not ,

but what difference does it make if its conditioning or simply bad genetics?

it still sucks for physique competition.

Dorian was very lucky to get as far as he did given these shortcomings.

standing next to someone his size with these attributes would be a huge disadvantage. Yes, we all know Andreas Munzer and Rich Gaspari never won the Olympia simply based on detail or vascularity respectively, but they never had both of these attributes with the size and the shape of 1999 Ronnie Coleman.

I thought I would explain that one more time for you because you still don't seem to grasp the concept.

[NeoSeminole]

exactly, Andreas Munzer had even better conditioning than Dorian yet he never won the Mr. Olympia. So conditioning isn't everything. Dorian was able to beat him b/c he was bigger. Ronnie's conditioning in 03 wasn't far off from 95 Dorian, much the same way Dorian's conditioning wasn't far off from Andreas Munzer. However, Ronnie was almost 30 lbs heavier. His conditioning + size advantage would be too much for Dorian to handle.

[Hulkster]

true, but he still looked better in 1998/9



 

the size and lat width advantage dorian had over shawn and flex would be gone.

that would leave dorian with the advantage of....um.....oohhhh....

 

[NarcissisticDeity]

but what difference does it make if its conditioning or simply bad genetics?

it still sucks for physique competition.

Dorian was very lucky to get as far as he did given these shortcomings.

standing next to someone his size with these attributes would be a huge disadvantage. Yes, we all know Andreas Munzer and Rich Gaspari never won the Olympia simply based on detail or vascularity respectively, but they never had both of these attributes with the size and the shape of 1999 Ronnie Coleman.

I thought I would explain that one more time for you because you still don't seem to grasp the concept.

See this is where you try to undermine Dorian's strenghts and advantages over Ronnie , Dorian has striations he has pleanty in his chest , more than Ronnie in his obliques & intercostels , more than Ronnie in his lower lats & lower back and not as many in his glutes , you're grasping at straws on this one , seriously . You're trying to say with all things being equal Ronnie would win by having more striations and veins  its a retarded argument , those aren't enough of an advantage to overcome his short commings in the balance & porportion compared to Dorian , or muscle density or overall dryness these are clear advantages for Yates

Ronnie never stood next to someone who could match him for size (99) back width , and overall back , he never stood next to someone who could beat him in balance & proportion while weighing the same and having better conditioning , Ronnie never faced anyone of Dorian's calibre and he would have NO walk in the park with an injury free spot on hard as nails Dorian Yates , if anyone thinks otherwise they're just plain ignorant.
 

[sculpture]

See this is where you try to undermine Dorian's strenghts and advantages over Ronnie , Dorian has striations he has pleanty in his chest , more than Ronnie in his obliques & intercostels , more than Ronnie in his lower lats & lower back and not as many in his glutes , you're grasping at straws on this one , seriously . You're trying to say with all things being equal Ronnie would win by having more striations and veins  its a retarded argument , those aren't enough of an advantage to overcome his short commings in the balance & porportion compared to Dorian , or muscle density or overall dryness these are clear advantages for Yates

Ronnie never stood next to someone who could match him for size (99) back width , and overall back , he never stood next to someone who could beat him in balance & proportion while weighing the same and having better conditioning , Ronnie never faced anyone of Dorian's calibre and he would have NO walk in the park with an injury free spot on hard as nails Dorian Yates , if anyone thinks otherwise they're just plain ignorant.
 

This post truly smacks of desperation

[nicorulez]

See this is where you try to undermine Dorian's strenghts and advantages over Ronnie , Dorian has striations he has pleanty in his chest , more than Ronnie in his obliques & intercostels , more than Ronnie in his lower lats & lower back and not as many in his glutes , you're grasping at straws on this one , seriously . You're trying to say with all things being equal Ronnie would win by having more striations and veins  its a retarded argument , those aren't enough of an advantage to overcome his short commings in the balance & porportion compared to Dorian , or muscle density or overall dryness these are clear advantages for Yates

Ronnie never stood next to someone who could match him for size (99) back width , and overall back , he never stood next to someone who could beat him in balance & proportion while weighing the same and having better conditioning , Ronnie never faced anyone of Dorian's calibre and he would have NO walk in the park with an injury free spot on hard as nails Dorian Yates , if anyone thinks otherwise they're just plain ignorant.
 

ND, utter BS my friend.  I agree about the conditioning.  However, open your eyes and read what you are saying.  Balance and proportion.  Yates has overwhelming calves compared to his thighs.  His arms are small (relatively to Coleman), and after the tear they were non-existent except from the side tricep.  Ronnie has always been known for having better symmetry with smaller obliques.  I agree, his gut is disgusting, and that is why I hope a Martinez or Heath bring this sport back to reality.  However, to even use balance and proportion for Yates in any context is asinine.  He was huge and conditionined.  I agree, he could stand next to Ronnie and compete heartily.  However, only Dorian 1993 (pre-tear) would have been a major threat.  You can't give symmetry to a guy with one arm and a torn quad (Yate's latter years) compared to an all-time best Ronnie who was as big or bigger (depending on your fav version).  It is epic if 1993 faces an all-time Ronnie.  I concur that no cakewalk for either guy would ensue.  Peace all.

[pumpster]

Quote from: NarcissisticDeity on Today at 04:45:38 AM
See this is where you try to undermine Dorian's strenghts and advantages over Ronnie , Dorian has striations he has pleanty in his chest , more than Ronnie in his obliques & intercostels , more than Ronnie in his lower lats & lower back and not as many in his glutes , you're grasping at straws on this one , seriously . You're trying to say with all things being equal Ronnie would win by having more striations and veins   its a retarded argument , those aren't enough of an advantage to overcome his short commings in the balance & porportion compared to Dorian , or muscle density or overall dryness these are clear advantages for Yates

Ronnie never stood next to someone who could match him for size (99) back width , and overall back , he never stood next to someone who could beat him in balance & proportion while weighing the same and having better conditioning , Ronnie never faced anyone of Dorian's calibre and he would have NO walk in the park with an injury free spot on hard as nails Dorian Yates , if anyone thinks otherwise they're just plain ignorant.

This post truly smacks of desperation

What else is new? 

[pobrecito]

offseason

[carvedoutofwood]

I concur that no cakewalk for either guy would ensue.  Peace all.

come on... ronnie hands down...

[pumpster]

Quote from: nicorulez on Today at 07:31:27 AM
I concur that no cakewalk for either guy would ensue.  Peace all.

Mr. diplomat here, having completely changed his initial assessment in the process.

[carvedoutofwood]

Mr. diplomat here, having completely changed his initial assessment in the process.

hahahah

[sculpture]

I concur that no cakewalk for either guy would ensue.  Peace all.

Lets not be magnaminous here. A 1998/99/2001 AC coleman would defeat a peak 1993 yates although not easily due to similar bodyweights, with teh argument essentially boiling down to condition vs shape and separation.

A 2003 ronnie would however absolutely shit all over any version of yates, with yates edge in size being dispelled, leaving him with condition and condition alone as the sole weapon in his arsenal although as you are all aware 2003 ron was no slouch in that department as the videos and pics attest to.

[NeoSeminole]

Lets not be magnaminous here. A 1998/99/2001 AC coleman would defeat a peak 1993 yates although not easily due to similar bodyweights, with teh argument essentially boiling down to condition vs shape and separation.

A 2003 ronnie would however absolutely shit all over any version of yates, with yates edge in size being dispelled, leaving him with condition and condition alone as the sole weapon in his arsenal although as you are all aware 2003 ron was no slouch in that department as the videos and pics attest to.

thank you sir, I agree wholeheartedly with everything you just said. I used to think the 98/99 Ronnie would destroy Dorian. As I saw more and more pics of both, I gradually began to realize it would be no cake walk for Ronnie. I readily admit it can go either way if we are talking about 93 Dorian vs 99 Ronnie. However, Ronnie in 03 would be too much for Dorian to handle. He was huge, shredded, and pretty damn symmetrical for a guy his size.

[RocketSwitch625]

Something's been bothering me for a while. I've been trying to figure out which of these two pics is Coleman's face. Can anyone help?

[NarcissisticDeity]

Lets not be magnaminous here. A 1998/99/2001 AC coleman would defeat a peak 1993 yates although not easily due to similar bodyweights, with teh argument essentially boiling down to condition vs shape and separation.

A 2003 ronnie would however absolutely shit all over any version of yates, with yates edge in size being dispelled, leaving him with condition and condition alone as the sole weapon in his arsenal although as you are all aware 2003 ron was no slouch in that department as the videos and pics attest to.

Condition alone? lol gee thats not important in bodybuilding  again you simplfiy Yates to just conditioning which shows how simple you are , Yates advantages VS ANY version of Ronnie

Conditioning

Balance & proportion

Density

Ronnie 2003 is at his all-time worse in terms of balance & proportion , his conditioning is NOT on par with his 1998 version nevermind Yates at his best and the only thing dense on Ronnie was his gut !  Ronnie may have had a easy time with Jay Cutler and Dexter Jackson , Dorian Yates would easily give ANY version of Ronnie a run for his money.

[NarcissisticDeity]

offseason

He's 275lbs in this pic and still hard as nails.

[carvedoutofwood]

He's 275lbs in this pic and still hard as nails.

lol... bro your clueless

[NeoSeminole]

He's 275lbs in this pic and still hard as nails.

He looks soft and puffy to me.

[NarcissisticDeity]

He looks soft and puffy to me.

Oh please 

[NarcissisticDeity]

lol... bro your clueless

Is that the best you can manage? thats him guest posing at Bev Francis gym and he was 275lbs.

[carvedoutofwood]

Is that the best you can manage? thats him guest posing at Bev Francis gym and he was 275lbs.

number one, guess where i live and train?...
number two to describe dorian as "hard as nails" there yet refuse to acknowledge how insanely good ronnies 03 olympia package was... honestly to say that dorian looks "hard as nails" there (weighing 275) but say that ronnie looked "soft" or water retained in 03 = clueless... youve gotta backpeddle over that one

[NeoSeminole]

Oh please 

I'm sure you would agree Ronnie looks a little soft here.





So what makes you think Dorian looks hard as nails in this pic? You are such a die-hard guy that you think he has super conditioning even when he's offseason.