Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[NarcissisticDeity]

If I recall correctly the crowd booed unanimously when Ronnie was announced the winner over kevin

Oh yes it was a very unpopular ' win ' for ' big ' Ron , whats ironic is he was upset with the previous year contest being so close and the next year he fucked-up in a major way because precontest he looks 180 degrees better I would love to know how he managed to fuck-up last minute.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Ronnie's delt-arm tie-in was amazing in 99....best ever. You couldn't sculpt better arms and delts.

I think 99 was his best Olympia showing in terms of fullness and him looking his best , not from a conditioning standpoint , he looks really good at about 260lbs , then again I find this version of Ronnie 1996 amazing seriously , they dismiss his 96 shape but this is among his best .

[pobrecito]

The odd thing is, Ronnie's midsection there is better than it ever was in any of his olympia wins.

He looked unbelievable in BFTO 96.

But overall he was better in 98 and 99 becuase he had better density.

[pumpster]

Quote from: pobrecito on Today at 07:48:36 PM
If I recall correctly the crowd booed unanimously when Ronnie was announced the winner over kevin


Oh yes it was a very unpopular ' win ' for ' big ' Ron

What was the audience reaction when this won with perfect scores?

[pobrecito]

What was the audience reaction when this won with perfect scores?

Dorian always got the loudest cheers.

[suckmymuscle]

SUCKY you're still not getting a BB fundamental-a wide waist from the front is a disaster-WORSE than a gut because it effects the most important front poses AND effects taper.

  Sorry, but having a belly like a preagnant woman is a far worse symmetrical liability than having a thick waist. Bodybuilding is about building the body into something that conveys an image of greater muscularity and lower bodyfat than an average man. How can you look good if you look like an obese man with low bodyfat? As I've said before, a gut distension is the worst symetrical liability one can have, because it is the one bodypart which nis visible in all angles except from the back, and it makes you look like someone who has morbid obesity.

  As for taper, it is not something that depends of waist girth, but rather of the differential between the waist and two things: the delt and lat width. When standing relaxed, Ronnie has an advantage over Dorian in taper, and I never denied that. Like I said, this is one of the few areas where Ronnie scores point over Dorian as far as symmetry goes.

  Now, when it comes to the mandatories from the front, Dorian's taper is actually quite good, due to his incredible lat width. It is only when the taper is a function of the differential between delt width and waist that Ronnie defeats Dorian. In the abs-and-thighs and front lat spread, Dorian's taper is actually better than Ronnie's, because in these two mandatories it is the lats that create the taper and not the delts. Get it? Funny that you mentioned the front mandatories, the front mandatories, because Ronnie has no taper advantage over Yates exactly because these two shots emphasize the contrast between lats and waist, not delts and waist. In the abs-and-thigh, furthermore, Dorian has superior abs/serratus separations than Ronnie, and that wins him points even if Ronnie did have a better taper - which is not the case.

Get it through that wooden head. Stop trying to minimize the problem, stop trying to pretend that washboard abs or a flat stomach helps this when they're not related. DUH!

  What are you talking about? I never denied that Ronnie has better taper than Dorian when standing relaxed. In thisd case, the taper is a funtion of delt-to-waist ratio, and there's not question that Ronnie's is superior. What's yourt point? All I'm saying is that Ronnie does not have better taper than Dorian in the muscularity round when executing the front mandatories, because the delts are not called into play in creating taper in this shot. And how does having a flat stomach not win points when it coems to midsection if it's an obvious symmetrical liability from the sides? Even if a distended gut is not visible from the front in his 1999 version - and although Ronnie's was in both 2003 and 2004 -, it still compromises symmetry both during transition as well as in the side mandatories. Perhaps this wouldn't be problem if there were no side mandatories and no transition, but the bottom line is that there are and Ronnie is compromised. You could argue that having a distended gut is having bad taper from the sides. Pumpster, give up: you're waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of your league trying to argue with me. Leave it to NeoSeminole or PraetorFenix to try to do that, because at least they don't get flat out destroyed by me; at least they put up a fight. They still get defeated, but at least they hold their own

Two dolts congratulating themselves.

  I'll take your charge seriously, because you're obviously an expert when it comes to being a dolt...

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[carvedoutofwood]

sucky must either be the faster typer on the planet, or have this stuff pre written.. seriously... not hating... its incredible..

[pobrecito]

sucky must either be the faster typer on the planet, or have this stuff pre written.. seriously... not hating... its incredible..

his responses are always very detailed and well thought out. Even if you don't agree with him, you have to commend his responses.

[NeoSeminole]

his responses are always very detailed and well thought out. Even if you don't agree with him, you have to commend his responses.

don't mistake length for quality. Some of the things he says are intelligent but then he makes himself look like a hypocrite. For example, he talks about how Dorian would win the abs-and-thighs b/c he has a better midsection and the pose has "abs" in the name. However, he doesn't apply this same logic to the front and rear double biceps.

[pumpster]

sucky must either be the faster typer on the planet, or have this stuff pre written.. seriously... not hating... its incredible..

Copy/paste..

then he makes himself look like a hypocrite. For example, he talks about how Dorian would win the abs-and-thighs b/c he has a better midsection and the pose has "abs" in the name. However, he doesn't apply this same logic to the front and rear double biceps.

You mean the stumbling around amidst a sea of hypocricy & inconsistencies, while being congratulated by cronies? Such as the silly mindf*ck about wide abs being less relevant re: washboard abs?

[pobrecito]

don't mistake length for quality. Some of the things he says are intelligent but then he makes himself look like a hypocrite. For example, he talks about how Dorian would win the abs-and-thighs b/c he has a better midsection and the pose has "abs" in the name. However, he doesn't apply this same logic to the front and rear double biceps.

Well, in the abs-thighs pose, where is your attention drawn? It immediately goes and focuses on the midsection. In the back double and front double, the focus is really more on the back and the overall physique, arms play less of a role.

Dorian's arms pretty much sucked, however, I really question the importance of biceps 1) when Cutler beats Ronnie in 2006 when Ronnie has unreal arms and 2) head IFBB judge in 94 saying Dorian's bicep tear didn't affect his physique at all.

I do agree with you, Ronnie in 2003 beats any version of Dorian, due to sheer muscularity, the main critereon of bodybuilding.

However, from a personal standpoint, I prefer quality physiques. So only 98/99 Ronnie and 93 Dorian are acceptable to me. Anything after 93 with the torn bicep ruined his physique in my opinion. Both men had their flaws, Dorian in shape and overall separation, and Ronnie with calves and midsection. The best bodybuilder will be a mix of the two.

[Shockwave]

Well, in the abs-thighs pose, where is your attention drawn? It immediately goes and focuses on the midsection. In the back double and front double, the focus is really more on the back and the overall physique, arms play less of a role.

Dorian's arms pretty much sucked, however, I really question the importance of biceps 1) when Cutler beats Ronnie in 2006 when Ronnie has unreal arms and 2) head IFBB judge in 94 saying Dorian's bicep tear didn't affect his physique at all.

I do agree with you, Ronnie in 2003 beats any version of Dorian, due to sheer muscularity, the main critereon of bodybuilding.

However, from a personal standpoint, I prefer quality physiques. So only 98/99 Ronnie and 93 Dorian are acceptable to me. Anything after 93 with the torn bicep ruined his physique in my opinion. Both men had their flaws, Dorian in shape and overall separation, and Ronnie with calves and midsection. The best bodybuilder will be a mix of the two.

+1, On  almost all points. Dorian 93, is the best he presented. I think some people put to much emphasis on the biceps, where it is only one part of the physique. Dorian's bi's, never spectacular in any way, shape, or form, were always average. But, when you put him in the compulsaries, he beat the shit out of his competitors. Knowing how to pose to his advantage was a  GREAT strength. Take Dillet; (Towards Pumpster), sometimes I think you only care about beach muscles. "The most important front poses".... It's long established that it doesn't take shit to look awesome from the front. Anyone can look killer from the front. Look at Strydom. Dillet dominated in "pics" from the front, but when you see him on video, he looks like a down syndrome Cartman trying to win the special Olympicas. The man simply CANNOT show his body. That's  where pics (take note Hulkster) lie. He looks like Mr. Olympia in pics, until you see him pose. Then, he looks like smashed asshole, because he simply cannout display his muscularity. This is where Dorian shone. Hulkster, you say, "Ok, maybe Dorian looked awesome in person but shitty in pics, what does this say about Ronnie?" Not a damn thing. Some people look completely different in person, and others look rather unspectacular. You're generalizing. If you cannot take the people's opinion who have seen Dorian AND Ronnie firsthand, well, your just closeminded and biased. Simply unable to take the simple fact that; well, maybe your "HERO" wasn't quite the untouchable "GOD" the pics made you think him to be. Some people simply look better in person than others.

[pumpster]

I think some people put to much emphasis on the biceps, where it is only one part of the physique. Dorian's bi's, never spectacular in any way, shape, or form, were always average. But, when you put him in the compulsaries, he beat the shit out of his competitors. Knowing how to pose to his advantage was a  GREAT strength. Take Dillet; (Towards Pumpster), sometimes I think you only care about beach muscles. "The most important front poses".... It's long established that it doesn't take shit to look awesome from the front.

Convenient rationalizations.

[Bear]

I believe Ronnie is 300+ lbs in those pics - a 20 lb increase over his 03 Mr. Olympia showing.

well, 13lb, of water

[suckmymuscle]

don't mistake length for quality. Some of the things he says are intelligent but then he makes himself look like a hypocrite. For example, he talks about how Dorian would win the abs-and-thighs b/c he has a better midsection and the pose has "abs" in the name. However, he doesn't apply this same logic to the front and rear double biceps.

  No, I said that the abs would be something that would tip the balance in Dorian's favor. Why? Because you made a point about taper, saying that you look at lat width to demonstrate taper. I then showed you that Dorian only has worse taper than Ronnie when standing relaxed, because in this case the taper is a function of the differential between lat and waist width, not delt width. Since the delts are pushed forwards in this pose, it isn't in the picture. All things considered, in the abs-and-thighs shot, Dorian's taper is actually better than Ronnie's, because his wider lats make it appear smaller. So if there's no advantage for Ronnie in taper, then waht's left? My contention is that Dorian's superiorly etched abs/serratus would tip the balance in his favorCompare Dorian's abs-and-thigh from 1995 to Ronnie's in 1999, and it's lights out, Ronnie!

  And what has the front an d rear double biuceps have to do with anything? I have already conceded that Ronnie defeats Dorian in the front lat double biceps, fro several reasons. It is not only because he has the best overrall biceps, but also because Ronnie would have a small - very small - advantage in triceps size, because, even though Dorian has the best most muscular and proportional triceps when it counts - in the seide triceps mandatory -, Ronnie does have an advantage over him in inner and medial triceps heads. Your analogy with the back double biceps is misplaced: the front double biceps emphasizes the biceps far, far more than the back double biceps. Your comparison with the abs-and-thighs is misplaced for two reasons. First, I never claimed that the muscles mentioned in the mandatories' names are the only ones judged during the execution of the pose. Never! It just so happens that the abs-and-thighs showcases the abs far more than the back double biceps showcases the biceps. Secondly, in the back double biceps, only the anterior part of the biceps is visible and, while Ronnie still takes that, it is relatively unimportant.

  So the focus of the back double biceps is not the biceps, and I never said that the names of the mandatories signify the only muslces which are judged in the pose. Personally, I think that the back double biceps is called that only because the arms are flexed in the same way as in the front double biceps. That's all. It's obvious that the focus of the back double biceps is not the biceps, for two reasons. Firstly, as I've already elucidated, far les biceps is visible from the back than from the front. Secondly, in the front double biceps only the quads and lat width is visible besides the biceps. In the back version, conversely, you have the hams, glutes, calves, and all the back thickness and the separations are visible - unlike in the rear lat spread -, because the back muscles are contracting. So it's obvious that biceps don't come in the picture as much as in the front. And the bottom line is that the 1995 Dorian had thicker, wider and denser latissimus, teres major, teres major, etc. Add to that his smaller - a good thing - glutes, comparable hams and superior calves, and it's easy to see why Dorian wins the back double biceps.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

P.S: I'm still waiting for your reply to my previous post. Afraid?

[pumpster]

Firstly, as I've already elucidated, far les biceps is visible from the back than from the front.

Only true with Dorian "no bis" Yates..Coleman's bis can be seen a mile away from the back..another weak rationalization.

I have already conceded that Ronnie defeats Dorian in the front lat double biceps, fro several reasons.

It is not only because he has the best overrall biceps, but also because Ronnie would have a small - very small - advantage in triceps size

Damn...basically SUCKY has conceded front AND back double bis as well as tri size and waist size and taper to Coleman without fully comprehending it.

What's left..calves & forearms..

[suckmymuscle]

Copy/paste..[/move]

 
No, not at all. All my posts are written on the fly.

You mean the stumbling around amidst a sea of hypocricy & inconsistencies, while being congratulated by cronies? Such as the silly mindf*ck about wide abs being less relevant re: washboard abs?

  Having a wide waist didn't stop Dorian from winning Sandows. It didn't stop Jean-Pierre Fux. Having a wide waist is the result of having wide hips, which is a genetic condition. It is defintely a symmetrical liability when compard to a bodybuilder who has a narrow hips and a smaller waist. However, Dorian's bad taper ids only true when he's standing relaxed and his taper is a function of the differential between his shoulder girldle and waist. In the abs-and-thigh, Dorian asctually has better tapeer than the 1999 Ronnie. Like I said, Ronnie would definitely have an advantage over Dorian in terms of taper when standing relaxed, but this difference disappears in two of the three mandatories from the front: the abs-and-thigh and the front lat spread. In these two mandatories, the lats is more relevant in taper and, even though Dorian has a wider waist, his taper is better because his lats are wider.

  There;s no question that Ronnie has better taper then Dorian when standing relaxed, but this is not true in the mandatories. So my argument is that, since they are at least equal in the these two mandatories when n it comes to taper, that Dorian's superior absdominal and serratus separations - in the case of the abs-and-thigh - and wider lats - which gives him better taper and makes him win in muscularity -, would give an edge to him. Dorian has beter separations in the abdominal area in both these mandatories, and Dorian also has a muscularity advantage in the case of the front lat spread.

  As for the distended midsection, there's a ways to see this. You can say that it is having bad taper from the sides. It compromises overrall symmetry during transition and in the two mandatories from the sides. From teh front, the 1999 Ronnie would defeat Dorian in taper, but he would lose it from the sides, because a gut distension is nothing less than having a wide waist from the sides. So Ronnie scores no points here: he wins from the front but loses fromn teh sides. Since they're equal in overrall taper when it comes to midsection - Ronnie has it better from the front, but Dorian takes it from the sides -, neither of them has an advantage over the other there. So, what would decided who has the best overrall midsection. Well, I believe that Dorian's superior abs/serratus separations would tip the scales in his favor. Ronnie might have a smaller waist from the back, but this is not very relevant, because the hips insert from the front, so the difference is mininal. And since his lats are wider, he has better taper. In conclusion, Ronnie has no advantage in overrall taper over Dorian, but Dorian has the best abs/serratus separations, so that would make him win symmetry when it comes to the midsection. Dorian's overrall midsection is better. I'll comparer this abs-and-thighs to the one of Ronnie in 1999 any day. Where's Ronnie's better taper here, Pumpster?

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[pumpster]

Dorian's overrall midsection is better.

In your opinion! The best all-time BBs for the most part did not even have washboard abs but did have small waists that resulted in good tapers, unlike the construction worker. Based on that fact you've got your priorities ass-backwards.

[natural al]

What was the audience reaction when this won with perfect scores?

seriously.  Just take your first post in this thread and keep on reposting it.  Same pics as 400+ pages ago...my god you're getting alot of milliage out of a few pics.  I know you believe in the whole "repitition" way of proving your point but c'mon now, it's gotten out of hand.  If you have nothing new to add to the thread STFU and let it die.

[pumpster]

Just take your first post in this thread and keep on reposting it.  Same pics as 400+ pages ago...my god you're getting alot of milliage out of a few pics.

Is that all you can think to contribute?

[suckmymuscle]

Only true with Dorian "no bis" Yates..Coleman's bis can be seen a mile away from the back..another weak rationalization.

  Even if Ronnie wins biceps, it is only a very small part of this shot. And Dorian wins the pose overrall due to his thikcer back, better calves, smaller glutes, etc.

Damn...basically SUCKY has conceded front AND back double bis as well as tri size and waist size and taper to Coleman without fully comprehending it.

  The biceps is amlost irrelevant in the back double biceps, because the bigger part of it is only seen from the front.. Dorian has the thicker and denser back, smaller glutes - a good thing -, comparable hams and better calves. As for the front double biceps, it is the only mandatory that Ronnie wins. For the reasdons I've already elucidated in  my previous two posts, Dorian wins the front lat spread, abs-and-thigh, side triceps, rear lat spread, back double biceps and at least ties the side chest - Ronnie's pectoralis may have a slight advantage in size, but Dorian's vastus lateralis, calves and flatter midsection might give him the nod.

  Basically, the only thing Ronnie has on Dorian are biceps(irrlevant from the back), and his gigantic glutes(a bad thing).

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[pumpster]

Beginning around the 3:15 mark should really help your eyesight. 

[suckmymuscle]

In your opinion! The best all-time BBs for the most part did not even have washboard abs but did have small waists that resulted in good tapers, unlike the construction worker. Based on that fact you've got your priorities ass-backwards.

  Try to understand this, you moron: Ronnie does not have better taper than Dorian. I repeat: Ronnie does not have better taper than Dorian. He only has better taper than Dorian when standing relaxed from the front. While this would ordinarily give him better overrall symmetry, it does not because Dorian has the  better taper from the sides. Taper is not a function oif waist, you idiot, but rahter to the differential between waist and either the delts or the lats. Ronnie has only has better taper when he's standing relaxed. When they do the front lat spread and the abs-and-thigh shot, the taper is dependent of the lats, and Dorian wins. So in conclusion:Dorian has the better overrall midsection because because Ronnie's taper advantage is only apparent from the front, and Dorian wins it from the sides. So waht tips the scales in Dorian's favor is that his abs/serratus are better. Game over.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[natural al]

Is that all you can think to contribute?

well, I could just repost the same pics as were posted for the last 450 pages or so but you seem to have the market cornered in that department.  You guys might as well just end the thread with sucky going "fraid Not" and hulkster and pumpster going "fraid so" and just keep that up for the next 500 pages, it would accomplish the same thing.

Here I'll start:

FRAID NOT!!!!!

[LyricTenor]

well, I could just repost the same pics as were posted for the last 450 pages or so but you seem to have the market cornered in that department.  You guys might as well just end the thread with sucky going "fraid Not" and hulkster and pumpster going "fraid so" and just keep that up for the next 500 pages, it would accomplish the same thing.

Here I'll start:

FRAID NOT!!!!!

lol, awesome.