Author Topic: Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce  (Read 3567977 times)

NeoSeminole

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15725 on: December 05, 2006, 10:10:02 AM »
Oh, but I did refute you! Let's see. You claimed that the law of cause and effect is not explained by logic. I then counter-argued that logic and cause and effect are synonimous, and thus, it makes no sense to argue that it doesen't explain itself, because logic is a "language" that properties arbitrarily use to describe a pattern of interaction between themselves in an organized system. What this means, essentially, is that logic is axiomatic to the system it describes, and thus, does not need to justify itself. Let me give you and example: mathematics. It is bot axiomatic and abstract, because it describes truths that are only true if you accept that the axioms are irrefutable. In other words, mathematics can only possibly exist if you accept that there are numbers. But what are numbers? A pre-determined concept that limits are set, that units exist, and that the interaction  between units can give rise to groups of units, etc. So, saying that the law of cause and effect does not explain logic is a tautalogy, based on trying to explain the rules of a system with the rules of the system.


I said the law of cause and effect contradicts itself, which is true if we assume that everything that happens must have been caused by something. Therefore, either you are arguing in favor of something that is illogical or you are using a different definition of causality all-together. Here are my objections.

objection 1: some effects do not require a cause. Quantum mechanics tells us that particles at the sub-atomic level behave without causation. You claim something must be responsible. However, no evidence for sub-quantum forces has ever been found. The forces ARE the result of quantum particles (e.g. strong forces are caused by gluons, not vice versa).

objection 2a: if everything that happens must have a cause, then each cause must have an earlier cause and so on. This means the chain of causes of your future actions extend backwards to before you were born. In essence, your whole life is predetermined and free will doesn't exist. If you object that any of these causes is an isolated event, then you are implying an uncaused cause which violates the "law of cause and effect."

objection 2b: if everything that happens must have a cause, then each cause must have an earlier cause and so on. This chain of causes may be traced back to the first cause. A familiar paradox arises - what caused the first cause? According to the "law of cause and effect," every cause must be caused by something else. If we assume there is an uncaused cause, then its premise is violated and the whole argument fails.

objection 3: the "law of cause and effect" postulates that a specific cause always leads to a specific effect (i.e. there may be some attribute X which always leads to some attribute Y). However, we have never observed two instances of X which led to two instances of Y. Every X is different in some respect from every other X. Likewise, every Y is different from every other Y. If you object that we may infer the same outcome when each X is exactly the same, then you are creating a definition for cause and effect that cannot be falsified. Since all you would have to do whenever someone challenges you is propose additional 'unknown' causes, this is not really a valid argument. It would be like me claiming "the universe was created by a black hole. We just don't understand all the factors that were involved" no matter how many objections are raised. Although this argument can never be falsified, it doesn't necessarily follow that it's true.

IceCold

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15726 on: December 05, 2006, 10:15:19 AM »
All this proves is that your selective memory continues.

You've created the same distortions on Yates, over and over-there's more to Yates' deficiencies than your selective 2 criteria of "conditioning" and "graininess" for anyone who comprehends BB.


conditioning and graininess are not deficiencies.  

in fact, i've never mentioned the word "graininess" in this entire thread.

when will you understand that based on dorian's record, the judges, and other bbers, that yates' strengths overcome any weaknesses that you think he has.  that's all i've ever said.  i never denied those deficiencies you speak of.  

does your opinion count more than the judges?

you claim politics, but what political gains would dillet,flex, ronnie, ect. have saying how great yates was?

of course, you'll ignore that question like you always do and post of picture of yates standing relaxed from 94 or from the 96 english grand prix.  

for someone who acts like a bodybuilding judge and expert, you dont even go to a fucking gym and rather use a bowflex in your own privacy doing who knows what.  




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pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15727 on: December 05, 2006, 10:16:44 AM »

conditioning and graininess are not deficiencies.  

You have entirely discredited any credibility with continued obsession only on Yates' strengths. Entirely 1-dimensional dogma. I have not, have also pointed out Coleman's drawbacks for anyone paying attention, which excludes you and your limited perviews.  ;D


Quote
for someone who acts like a bodybuilding judge and expert, you dont even go to a fucking gym and rather use a bowflex in your own privacy doing who knows what.
Stooping to irrelevant personal asides reeks of DESPERATION from a losing position. You stink. ;D

NeoSeminole

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15728 on: December 05, 2006, 10:17:51 AM »
The philosophizing was utterly unneeded, was done only to try to show off but backfired because it was in fact nonsensical.

exactly, I'll give him props for using big words but none of what he said even comes close to refuting my comment. All he did was create a fancy, long-winded defintion for logic and then throw a sentence in there saying "causality and logic are synonymous." ::)

pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15729 on: December 05, 2006, 10:19:29 AM »
I'll give him props for using big words
Using big words improperly in efforts to sound erudite puts SUCKY firmly in the Jessie Jackson, who does same in mangling the english language. Nothing to do with proper grammar-another "scholar" with lots of mumbo-jumbo and big words used improperly, proving the cluelessness of the author. Mike Tyson also tried that in some cases, coming up with some classics.  ;D

IceCold

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15730 on: December 05, 2006, 10:39:57 AM »
You have entirely discredited any credibility with continued obsession only on Yates' strengths. Entirely 1-dimensional dogma. I have not, have also pointed out Coleman's drawbacks for anyone paying attention, which excludes you and your limited perviews.  ;D

Stooping to personal asides reeks of DESPERATION. You stink. ;D

how and what is one dimensional?

i've admitted to dorian's weaknesses, however you have never stated anything about coleman - whether it be his calves, abs, gyno, gut, or torn muscles. 

last time you said you posted something on page 100.  of course, there wasnt anything there or any pages about your political theories on yates win.  where is your acknwoledgement of coleman's weakness and how those weaknesses never put together 2 consecutive years of domination (unlike yates who got 5 out of 6 perfect scores)?

whenever someone says something you either ignore it or post a relaxed pic of dorian from 94 or 96.

WHY DID YOU IGNORE THE LAST QUESTION RELATED TO POLITICS AND HOW OTHER BODYBUILDERS WOULD BENEFIT BY COMMENTING ON HOW GREAT DORIAN WAS?


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pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15731 on: December 05, 2006, 10:45:14 AM »
where is your acknwoledgement of coleman's weakness and how those weaknesses never put together 2 consecutive years of domination (unlike yates who got 5 out of 6 perfect scores)?

whenever someone says something you either ignore it or post a relaxed pic of dorian from 94 or 96.



But my acknowledgement's there. What's certain from your posts is that you're as ignorant of this as you have been one-sided in your assessments. Entirely lacking in objectivity. If you'd followed the thread from the beginning you wouldn't walk into yet another door with another one-dimensional assessment that is wrong. This is your pattern, sadly. :'(

As far as pics, i've posted Yates '93 pics over and over again, and his '93 video just a couple of pages ago, you clueless imperceptive DUMBASS.

IceCold

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15732 on: December 05, 2006, 10:57:47 AM »
But my acknowledgement's there. What's certain from your posts is that you're as ignorant of this as you have been one-sided in your assessments. Entirely lacking in objectivity. If you'd followed the thread from the beginning you wouldn't walk into yet another door with another one-dimensional assessment that is wrong. This is your pattern, sadly. :'(

As far as pics, i've posted Yates '93 pics over and over again, and his '93 video just a couple of pages ago, you clueless imperceptive DUMBASS.

its not a question of lacking objectivity, but you ignore facts.  like quotes and scores - something that is more concrete than just your shitty opinion that reality has proven is wrong. 

and the getbig poll aint good enough.  you and hulkster probably voted 5,000 times a piece. 

are you saying that a internet board is more accurate than the IFBB judges AND competitors who competed against dorian and ronnie?

and what was your point from 93?

that dorian got a perfect score?

that he wasnt even called out during prejudging - the only mr. olympia that's happened too?

flex wheeler calls yates "untouchable".

or where you going to imply that your expert opinion, despite using a fucking bowflex and never going to a gym is more accurate than the judges and other guys who competed against dorian?

WHEN WILL YOU REALIZE THAT YOUR OPINION MEANS SHIT.  YOU'VE PROVIDED NO EVIDENCE OR SUPPORT FOR ANYTHING YOU'VE SAID IN 640 PAGES.

i've owned you more times than that last ban of resistance has on your bowflex.
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pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15733 on: December 05, 2006, 11:01:04 AM »


and what was your point from 93?


or where you going to imply that your expert opinion, despite using a fucking bowflex and never going to a gym is more accurate than the judges and other guys who competed against dorian?

You prove over & over again that you're a vindictive little bitch who tries desperately to make it personal when reminded of your selective lack of objectivity. I've provided plenty of proof over many pages, including those video clips that you clearly ignored, and various '93 pics. You ignore that because like your Yates obsession, you're selective in perceptions tailored to suit your dogmas. Instead choses to react like a whiny little baby with personal attacks; a classless turd with no credibility.

IceCold

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15734 on: December 05, 2006, 11:07:44 AM »
You prove over & over again that you're a vindictive little bitch who tries desperately to make it personal when reminded of your selective lack of objectivity. I've provided plenty of proof over many pages, including those video clips that you clearly ignored or again proved unaware of in your selective dogmas. Instead choses to react like a whiny little baby with personal attacks; a classless turd with no credibility.

i will stop with the bowflex/personal remarks.

i apologize for that.

you just proved my point.

you posted clips, but other than your opinion, you have no evidence or support for your view of the clips and pictures.

my point was that i can use the judges score cards and quotes from other bodybuilders who competed against dorian and ronnie (yes, we've seen the sergio quote 100 times) to express my POV - which is different than yours when viewing the pics and clips. 
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pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15735 on: December 05, 2006, 11:14:12 AM »
you just proved my point.

you posted clips, but other than your opinion, you have no evidence or support for your view of the clips and pictures.

my point was that i can use the judges score cards and quotes from other bodybuilders who competed against dorian and ronnie (yes, we've seen the sergio quote 100 times) to express my POV - which is different than yours when viewing the pics and clips. 

First of all, my clips and pics entirely refute your claim that i only post bad pics. Wrong again.

Secondly, relying on scorecards renders this entire thread mute. Pointless, given that they didn't compete directly at their peaks. As well, the IFBB's record includes some very dubious results that throws those numbers very much into question.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15736 on: December 05, 2006, 11:26:17 AM »
i've owned you more times than that last ban of resistance has on your bowflex.

best fucking line of the year !!  ;)

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15737 on: December 05, 2006, 11:30:15 AM »
First of all, my clips and pics entirely refute your claim that i only post bad pics. Wrong again.

Secondly, relying on scorecards renders this entire thread mute. Pointless, given that they didn't compete directly at their peaks. As well, the IFBB's record includes some very dubious results that throws those numbers very much into question.

You're full of shit period all you do is post bad pics thats all you've done over the entire thread youre infamous for it and its all you have , you and Hulkster post slanted comparisons because you have nothing

The IFBB includes some dubious results? like 01/02/04? shall I continue? they're only ' dubious ' when its Yates but not Coleman  ::) you can't fix a contest its next to impossible 13 judges would all have to be in cahoots to fix the contests , the high and low scores are tossed out and all the judges came back unanimous Yates was better than his contemporaries. period.

IceCold

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15738 on: December 05, 2006, 12:18:50 PM »
First of all, my clips and pics entirely refute your claim that i only post bad pics. Wrong again.

Secondly, relying on scorecards renders this entire thread mute. Pointless, given that they didn't compete directly at their peaks. As well, the IFBB's record includes some very dubious results that throws those numbers very much into question.

i never said you posted only bad pics (eventhough you do).

i pointed to the score cards as proof for dorian  - u claim he sucks based on pictures and clips.

i say the total opposite using the scorecards to support my POV and discredit yours.

you never responded with anything concrete - like other scores disprooving dorian's dominance or quotes from other bbers (dont even bother with sergio).

then you mention politics but (ONCE AGAIN) provide no evidence for your claim.

you said you did on page 100.  nothing is within 20 pages.  and yes, i did check.

you never said as to why the IFBB would benefit from yates winning.

also, you never answered my question as to why from a political standpoint, other bbers would say great things about dorian.  its not like they were saying it to get in with the judges AND beat dorian.

PUMPSTER, YOU HAVE MUCH EXPLAINING TO DO.
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RocketSwitch625

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15739 on: December 05, 2006, 01:08:20 PM »
The Coleman nuthuggers must have severe mental problems if they can't see that their man is inferior to Yates in every way. Keep studying this comparison Hulkster. Surely you can't lie to yourself for much longer.


RocketSwitch625

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15740 on: December 05, 2006, 01:21:32 PM »
Can the Coleman nuthuggers explain why Ronnie carries these ghastly balls of fat on his glutes? Should a bodybuilder's glutes be so big?

Pwned. LOL


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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15741 on: December 05, 2006, 01:27:03 PM »
It's just occurred to me that Coleman's 30lb weight advantage is mostly due to his huge gut and over sized ass. Coleman at 290lbs carries a tiny fraction more muscle than Yates. 'Nuff said.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15742 on: December 05, 2006, 03:57:52 PM »

do you consider winning by 2 points dominating?

the reality is the 99 version of ronnie isnt as good as you think?

who says so?

the fucking judges.

you are such an idiot.

Ronnie beat flex by 20 points in 1999, not two as you claim, and with perfect scores no less - a fact that ND would no doubt love..

Its amazing the misinformation that the dorian side tries to pass of in an pathetic effort to make 1999 ronnie seem less amazing than he was... ::)

And as an interest footnote that proves how overlooked Ronnie was in 1998, look at how the scoring goes from round 1 compared to the other rounds:

1 Ronnie Coleman USA 17 5 5 5 32 
2 Flex Wheeler USA 5 10 10 10 35 

Once the judges noticed Ronnie in 1998, he recieved the highest scores possible.

Flex probably got a 5 in round one based on momentum and name value alone.
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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15743 on: December 05, 2006, 04:00:09 PM »
Quote
and the getbig poll aint good enough.  you and hulkster probably voted 5,000 times a piece. 

 ::)

I voted once.

any moron can see that Ronnie in his prime shape raised the bar that dorian set in 1993.

why do you think the poll was a landslide for ronnie?

and, given the stuff posted since then, the results would be even more overwhelmingly in favor of Ronnie.
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Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15744 on: December 05, 2006, 04:06:08 PM »
Quote
all the judges came back unanimous Yates was better than his contemporaries. period.

yes they did.

but the reason as to WHY they did is the problem, at least in 94, 96 and 97.

the answer is simply mass over quality in most cases - except 97 where even ND cannot rationally explain why dorian won looking like he did..

I simply do not agree with this judging doctrine.


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pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15745 on: December 05, 2006, 04:09:33 PM »
to his huge gut and over sized ass. Coleman at 290lbs carries a tiny fraction more muscle than Yates. 'Nuff said.

Just a tad more size, like 4" on the arms, bigger chest & delts..did you start following BB last summer? ::)

pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15746 on: December 05, 2006, 04:12:42 PM »
Another in the infamous Dorian "no bis" Yates series.. ;D

Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15747 on: December 05, 2006, 04:14:42 PM »


well, its the same with you and pumpster saying the SAME EXACT thing about yates biceps in the back pose. 

no it isn't.

having a great back means looking good from the waist up, as in the rear double bi pose.

Having great arms is an integral part of having a great back.

Calves are not related to having a great back specifically at all.
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pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15748 on: December 05, 2006, 04:17:53 PM »


then you mention politics but (ONCE AGAIN) provide no evidence for your claim.

I'll reiterate that i went into this MORE THAN ONCE, for nothing-ND and assorted clowns didn't debate any of the points made seriously, making efforts to discuss it a complete waste of time. Yes, your hero ND refused to discuss it after i went into detail-the now-familiar ND MO incidentially. Deflections over substance, move on to something else when uncomfortable realities seek to intrude.  ;D

Rather than wasting my time again regarding the naivete of some here, check some of Serge Nubret's comments in which he confirms this. Beyond which, it's just common sense: exercise it in analyzing some but not all of the results over the years.

If you really think there's no politics in a private company like Weider that has never been accountable to anyone, I have a bridge and some stock to sell you. ;)

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #15749 on: December 05, 2006, 04:27:06 PM »
yes they did.

but the reason as to WHY they did is the problem, at least in 94, 96 and 97.

the answer is simply mass over quality in most cases - except 97 where even ND cannot rationally explain why dorian won looking like he did..

I simply do not agree with this judging doctrine.




For your to say Dorian lacked quality shows your ignorance and if sized ruled the day as you love to claim than surely Nasser El Sonbaty would have beat Yates he had more size , Ian Harrison would have been Mr Olympia , Greg Kovacs , Fux etc 

Dorian's scores reflect his superiority , deal with it  ;)