Author Topic: Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce  (Read 3526588 times)

NeoSeminole

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22925 on: February 03, 2007, 01:42:06 AM »
Yes, but my assumptions are far more reasonable than yours. He lost 10 lbs of weight, but had only 3 to 5 lbs of water and fat to lose.

says you. In the end, we're both arguing over speculation.

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Ugh... ??? I have proved mathematically that Ronnie lost lean muscle mass from the 1999 Olympia to the 2001 ASC. Let's assume that he had 2 lbs lmore water at the night show. So what? then his weight would be 255 lbs. Now assume that he was at 4% bodyfat as you imply, and 3% at the 2001 ASC. Then:

you haven't proven anything mathematically since the numbers you used are based on assumptions.

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No, I accused you of speculating and then you accused me of the same. We're both speculating, but my speculation is probabilistically far more likely to be true than yours.

ha ha ha ha, I already said that you are probably correct. I don't know why you are still arguing this.

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You praised a guy who said I gave you the most clear-cut ownage of this thread. Nice going, retard!

I never praised Pubes. So I don't know where you got that from. Way to make up "facts" you dumbass! ;)

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22926 on: February 03, 2007, 04:54:55 AM »
no, you are an idiot because in a sport based on visuals, you rely on quotes over real comparisons everytime ::)

when was that bev francis quote made? I am pretty sure well before 1998 or 1999..





The sport is based on visuals LIVE and in person and its also based on criteria , now couple that with the fact that A.) Dorian doesn't look as good in pictures & video and B. ) You're ignorant of how contests are judges and how to apply the criteria and C. ) you're biased , then ANY opinion you form is useless especially compared eye witness accounts

And it doesn't matter when the Bev Francis quote was made because it confirms what I said all along , that Dorian at his best is almost flawless , that proportion is outstanding and he's not like Ronnie just a few parts thrown together , and the best part is I've said this all along only to have it confirmed by a Pro , and eye witness and Bev is an IFBB judge to boot  ;)

Necrosis

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22927 on: February 03, 2007, 05:54:21 AM »
The sport is based on visuals LIVE and in person and its also based on criteria , now couple that with the fact that A.) Dorian doesn't look as good in pictures & video and B. ) You're ignorant of how contests are judges and how to apply the criteria and C. ) you're biased , then ANY opinion you form is useless especially compared eye witness accounts

And it doesn't matter when the Bev Francis quote was made because it confirms what I said all along , that Dorian at his best is almost flawless , that proportion is outstanding and he's not like Ronnie just a few parts thrown together , and the best part is I've said this all along only to have it confirmed by a Pro , and eye witness and Bev is an IFBB judge to boot  ;)

how do you suppose dorian looks better. more cuts, seperations, bigger.

its not fact, melvin said ronnie looked better in  person. dexter in md said you have to see his size to believe it. and every pro ive ever seen looks better in person. that is because of contextual comparisons.

dorian is probably more impressive in person because of context, but his physique and propotions, nor cuts do not change. the camera as well as the eye would capture this.

its funny you state this as fact like dorians arm wasnt torn in reality only on pictures.




NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22928 on: February 03, 2007, 06:26:09 AM »
how do you suppose dorian looks better. more cuts, seperations, bigger.

its not fact, melvin said ronnie looked better in  person. dexter in md said you have to see his size to believe it. and every pro ive ever seen looks better in person. that is because of contextual comparisons.

dorian is probably more impressive in person because of context, but his physique and propotions, nor cuts do not change. the camera as well as the eye would capture this.

its funny you state this as fact like dorians arm wasnt torn in reality only on pictures.





Stop concentrating on if YOU think he does or doesn't I'll take it on authority from people who have seen him live & in person , as well as in pictures & video

and how how pathetic can you get? this clearly shows how little you have to work with

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its funny you state this as fact like dorians arm wasnt torn in reality only on pictures.

no one is denying his bicep isn't torn , just stating you can't accurately gauge Dorian's overall conditioning based on pictures & videos alone knowing its been stated many times he looks much better live than in pictures or videos , and you tried to and you were proven wrong , using pictures , video AND first hand accounts and quotes


NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22929 on: February 03, 2007, 06:38:55 AM »
Nd, why do you think that the lower back is somehow the entire physique? ::)

dorian kills ronnie in the lower back.

Ronnie kills dorian almost everywhere else...

No Dorian kills Ronnie is the WHOLE back not just lower back , clearly evident from that pic in the lower back , lower lats , you keep harping about striations & detail in the most muscular and this comparison shows thats one pose , this is another , its all the poses that win contests and not one or two.

Tombo

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22930 on: February 03, 2007, 06:45:59 AM »
O




M





G

Necrosis

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22931 on: February 03, 2007, 06:54:24 AM »
Stop concentrating on if YOU think he does or doesn't I'll take it on authority from people who have seen him live & in person , as well as in pictures & video

and how how pathetic can you get? this clearly shows how little you have to work with

no one is denying his bicep isn't torn , just stating you can't accurately gauge Dorian's overall conditioning based on pictures & videos alone knowing its been stated many times he looks much better live than in pictures or videos , and you tried to and you were proven wrong , using pictures , video AND first hand accounts and quotes



everything you say is a far reaching assumption, HOW does dorian look better. more cuts, striations, that is ridiculous, the cuts and striations would show if they were there. if you think not, read a little about optics.

he would be bigger, i agree, because its hard to judge how tryly huge he is on flim without a standard, and other giant guys dont help the problem. when seen in person and in comparision to the average joe dorian appears larger because of context. however, this would go for all bodybuilders.

i cant see how you could argue that dorian has some special property that some others dont have. also, your leaving out the possibility that ronnie was a witch and had this power also, an assumption.

also, using the perceived improvment of dorian we are not privy too makes this argument pointless. you supposing that dorian would look better, but do not know how or in what capacity. your using arguments that we cannot quantify as basis for superiority making it a hollow argument. it is the same thing as saying "but you have to see how big ronnie is in person, he looks much bigger in person"-dexter jackson. then me saying, these pics dont represent ronnies true size, hence he would be bigger in person and thus bigger on stage . therefore he would be bigger then dorian. youd say "how" id say "i dont know, people just say he looks bigger". this is the rational of your argument

HOW does he look better, cuts-impossible, the camera would capture cuts, they are not hidden but quantifiable
seperations-no, agian the camera can catch quantifiable things
hardness-not a visual sensation in itself
size-compared to the competition no, since if they were in the picture his size relative to theres(quantifiable) would be captured.
striations-nope, cameras can catch any objective criteria, much better then humans, since it is a still image.
impressivness-yes, he would look larger to the average, more cut then the average.


also, eye witness testimony is a poor type of evidence and is given little credance in court. video, photos however, are conclusive evidence that proves beyond a reasonable doubt the guilty/innocence and the true actions.




NeoSeminole

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22932 on: February 03, 2007, 07:07:01 AM »
everything you say is a far reaching assumption, HOW does dorian look better. more cuts, striations, that is ridiculous, the cuts and striations would show if they were there. if you think not, read a little about optics.

he would be bigger, i agree, because its hard to judge how tryly huge he is on flim without a standard, and other giant guys dont help the problem. when seen in person and in comparision to the average joe dorian appears larger because of context. however, this would go for all bodybuilders.

i cant see how you could argue that dorian has some special property that some others dont have. also, your leaving out the possibility that ronnie was a witch and had this power also, an assumption.

also, using the perceived improvment of dorian we are not privy too makes this argument pointless. you supposing that dorian would look better, but do not know how or in what capacity. your using arguments that we cannot quantify as basis for superiority making it a hollow argument. it is the same thing as saying "but you have to see how big ronnie is in person, he looks much bigger in person"-dexter jackson. then me saying, these pics dont represent ronnies true size, hence he would be bigger in person and thus bigger on stage . therefore he would be bigger then dorian. youd say "how" id say "i dont know, people just say he looks bigger". this is the rational of your argument

HOW does he look better, cuts-impossible, the camera would capture cuts, they are not hidden but quantifiable
seperations-no, agian the camera can catch quantifiable things
hardness-not a visual sensation in itself
size-compared to the competition no, since if they were in the picture his size relative to theres(quantifiable) would be captured.
striations-nope, cameras can catch any objective criteria, much better then humans, since it is a still image.
impressivness-yes, he would look larger to the average, more cut then the average.

also, eye witness testimony is a poor type of evidence and is given little credance in court. video, photos however, are conclusive evidence that proves beyond a reasonable doubt the guilty/innocence and the true actions.

damn, ND just got intellectually bitch slapped. Good post!

countdown to excuses... 3... 2... 1...

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22933 on: February 03, 2007, 07:28:16 AM »
everything you say is a far reaching assumption, HOW does dorian look better. more cuts, striations, that is ridiculous, the cuts and striations would show if they were there. if you think not, read a little about optics.

he would be bigger, i agree, because its hard to judge how tryly huge he is on flim without a standard, and other giant guys dont help the problem. when seen in person and in comparision to the average joe dorian appears larger because of context. however, this would go for all bodybuilders.

i cant see how you could argue that dorian has some special property that some others dont have. also, your leaving out the possibility that ronnie was a witch and had this power also, an assumption.

also, using the perceived improvment of dorian we are not privy too makes this argument pointless. you supposing that dorian would look better, but do not know how or in what capacity. your using arguments that we cannot quantify as basis for superiority making it a hollow argument. it is the same thing as saying "but you have to see how big ronnie is in person, he looks much bigger in person"-dexter jackson. then me saying, these pics dont represent ronnies true size, hence he would be bigger in person and thus bigger on stage . therefore he would be bigger then dorian. youd say "how" id say "i dont know, people just say he looks bigger". this is the rational of your argument

HOW does he look better, cuts-impossible, the camera would capture cuts, they are not hidden but quantifiable
seperations-no, agian the camera can catch quantifiable things
hardness-not a visual sensation in itself
size-compared to the competition no, since if they were in the picture his size relative to theres(quantifiable) would be captured.
striations-nope, cameras can catch any objective criteria, much better then humans, since it is a still image.
impressivness-yes, he would look larger to the average, more cut then the average.


also, eye witness testimony is a poor type of evidence and is given little credance in court. video, photos however, are conclusive evidence that proves beyond a reasonable doubt the guilty/innocence and the true actions.







No its not an assumption its backed up via many first hand accounts , and how does Dorian look better in person than in pictures & video? detail his detail can get washed out in pictures and in video Ronnie doesn't have this problem mainly due to his darker skin , now factor that in with the times ,  the use of digital cameras NOW vs regular film back in Yates' day now translate that into in print and its not going to be the greatest example of what was presented , now factor in most of Dorian's video footage online is compressed video , most likely from a VHS tape or worse a VHS someone taped off of ESPN now they broadcast the Olympia in High-Def big difference in quality and resolution compared to both forms of media used in Yates' hey-day and you're basing your opinion on this alone? give me a break


And again pictures can be misleading and not accurate , and you say the camera catches separations ? NOT all the time look at the two pics of Ronnie both from 1999 one shows clear separation between the muscles and the other DOES NOT proving your assessment pictures are 100% accurate as simply not true

and eyewintness testimony is a poor type of evidence? where do you come up with this shit? ONE thats not true and TWO bodybuilding isn't judged after the fact its judged during it , How fucking stupid can you possibly be? I mean you're trying to say people aren't reliable because the mind plays tricks on people but you're analogy is just plain dumb , eye witnesses can misinterpret things , forget things , etc , AFTER THE FACT especially when its happened all of the sudden , very unexpectedly

People go to bodybuilding contests and watch the prejudging and the nightshow , they form an opinion based on what is presented to them at the time , Ronnie steps onstage and you can instantaniously assertain if he's in great shape , if he's holding water , he's down in size , if there is a difference between the prejudging & the night show , thats what these people get paid for ( judges excluded ) they report on what takes place during NOT after

Now factor in you go to a contest and see Dorian and he's detailed from head to toe and then you make your report and then look at the pics and say " Wow he looked a lot better in person than this " we're not supposed to believe that? lol and the best part is I have a bunch of different people saying the same thing , so spare me with your dumb analogies and limited capabilities when you make claims that contradict the judges or reporters while sitting at home looking at scans & compressed video , you won't be taken seriously just laughed at

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22934 on: February 03, 2007, 07:36:24 AM »
damn, ND just got intellectually bitch slapped. Good post!

countdown to excuses... 3... 2... 1...

Yawn another wanna-be just like you  ;) you still can't counter this


Flex magazine Jan 1992 on Dorian Yates

" Dorian has the type of physique that looks much better and more powerfull in person than photos. I personally saw him onstage , and Yates if definitely light years ahead of the way he looks in photos.


MuscleMag International Feb 1994 on Dorian Yates at the 1993 Mr Olympia


" He's huge , absolutely HUGE ...he's ripped completely RIPPED. And while he's not in possession of the prettiest physique body by a long shot , he's equipped with all the bodyparts you need to win .

Combine this with the fact that he's 10 TIMES more impressive when you see him onstage at the Olympia than he is in pictures or on videos and you got yourself a winner.

.F.B.B. judge Roger Schwab

Man-mountain Dorian Yates was certainly the top gun in the 1993 Mr Olympia shootout. He was much bigger , better and harder than ever , and while his is never the prettiest physique on stage , he's assuredly the most God-awful muscular superman this sport has yet seen. Though Yates was lighter than Lou Ferrigno or Paul Dillett , he appeared to be the biggest man on stage-by far- and the hardest , dominating from beginning to end and every step in between.

This is a quote from John Hotten book " Muscle "

" Chris Cormier standing next to Dorian onstage he sensed ' radiation coming off him , like an aura. ' The power of that muscle was tangible. It exerted a force all of its own.  Cormier thought ' I might as well forget about this guy and concentrate on being second. ' There was something else , too , strange. You had to witness him in the flesh. such granite hradness had a property that could nor be held on film or caught on paper. You had to see it live.

Bob Chick GetBig Jan 15 , 2007

The judges made their decision based on what they saw live and in person. Pictures mean nothing as they can be deceiving...

Peter McGough Flex Magazine May 2002

Let it be said that the camera can lie at physique contests. Some guys look great onstage but not so great on final film (Dorian Yates, for one) and vice versa (Shawn Ray is an example).


NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22935 on: February 03, 2007, 07:42:49 AM »
The camera doesn't lie? bullshit and the camera picks up all separations? not quite  ;)

NeoSeminole

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22936 on: February 03, 2007, 07:43:31 AM »
Yawn another wanna-be just like you you still can't counter this

blah blah blah

I don't need to counter anything. Usmokepole already refuted the quotes you posted. It seems that you're a few steps behind. ;)

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22937 on: February 03, 2007, 07:49:56 AM »
I don't need to counter anything. Usmokepole already refuted the quotes you posted. It seems that you're a few steps behind.

No he didn't not by a long shot , refuting it would include just as many first hand accounts saying that Dorian DOES LOOK just as good on video and in pictures as he does live , like him you're shit out of luck and his reaching analogies were pathetic , and dismissed in my post above

He attempted to comment on Dorian's overall conditioning based on pictures & video and it contradicts the judges , the reporters and the contemporaries first hand live actual accounts , so he tried to counter it and failed , just like you tried to say Ronnie was the same size in 99 as 01 despite being 13 pounds lighter , you tried and failed


NeoSeminole

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22938 on: February 03, 2007, 08:12:31 AM »
No he didn't not by a long shot , refuting it would include just as many first hand accounts saying that Dorian DOES LOOK just as good on video and in pictures as he does live , like him you're shit out of luck and his reaching analogies were pathetic , and dismissed in my post above

usmokepole never said that Dorian didn't look better in person than in pics and video. He said the difference in improvement would apply to all bodybuilders, including Ronnie.

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He attempted to comment on Dorian's overall conditioning based on pictures & video and it contradicts the judges , the reporters and the contemporaries first hand live actual accounts , so he tried to counter it and failed , just like you tried to say Ronnie was the same size in 99 as 01 despite being 13 pounds lighter, you tried and failed

usmokepole's comments about Dorian's conditioning are in reference to Ronnie. It's safe to say that both look better in person. So it's irrelevant whether usmokepole based his assessment on pics and videos. If Ronnie looks in better conditioning in pics, then it logically follows that he also looks better in person. Furthermore, 01 ASC Ronnie weighed only 10 lbs less than he did in 99. I have proof of Peter McGough listing Ronnie's weight as 247 lbs at the 01 ASC. ;)

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22939 on: February 03, 2007, 08:24:22 AM »
usmokepole never said that Dorian didn't look better in person than in pics and video. He said the difference in improvement would apply to all bodybuilders, including Ronnie.

usmokepole's comments about Dorian's conditioning are in reference to Ronnie. It's safe to say that both look better in person. So it's irrelevant whether usmokepole based his assessment on pics and videos. If Ronnie looks in better conditioning in pics, then it logically follows that he also looks better in person. Furthermore, 01 ASC Ronnie weighed only 10 lbs less than he did in 99. I have proof of Peter McGough listing Ronnie's weight as 247 lbs at the 01 ASC. ;)

Neo are you paying attention to this thread? he most certainly said Dorian didn't look better in person than in pics or video , he went as far as to say he doesn't have some magical property that allows this , and I mean look at McGoughs quote

Peter McGough Flex Magazine May 2002

Let it be said that the camera can lie at physique contests. Some guys look great onstage but not so great on final film (Dorian Yates, for one) and vice versa (Shawn Ray is an example).

I mean I don't care if you guys agree with this or disagree it doesn't change the fact

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usmokepole's comments about Dorian's conditioning are in reference to Ronnie. It's safe to say that both look better in person. So it's irrelevant whether usmokepole based his assessment on pics and videos. If Ronnie looks in better conditioning in pics, then it logically follows that he also looks better in person. Furthermore, 01 ASC Ronnie weighed only 10 lbs less than he did in 99. I have proof of Peter McGough listing Ronnie's weight as 247 lbs at the 01 ASC. ;)

It doesn't matter who he said it in reference to , its not accurate to gauge his conditioning based on compressed video & scans knowing what McGough and others have said , so either way he's wrong to try and claim eyewitnesses are wrong and he his right

and again I've seen Ronnie listed at 244 pounds by McGough  ;) either way its moot he's still down 10 pounds so your original assessment he was the same size in 99 V 01 is dead wrong , it doesn't matter if he was lighter by 10 or 13 pounds he's still NOT the same , and you can't try and downplay 10/13 pounds as not much of a difference because one need only look the obvious size difference between 98 250 pounds VS 99 257 pounds , so once again like usmoke you're dead wrong and proven so by me  ;)

Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22940 on: February 03, 2007, 09:33:52 AM »
Quote
cant see how you could argue that dorian has some special property that some others dont have. also, your leaving out the possibility that ronnie was a witch and had this power also, an assumption.

I can see how.

he's an idiot.
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Iceman1981

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22941 on: February 03, 2007, 09:35:54 AM »
hey dipshit, there aren't any seated bench press machines onstage.

Exactly what I was thinking. Any top bodybuilder has striations showing on his chest while he is benching. lol.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22942 on: February 03, 2007, 09:55:27 AM »
Neo are you paying attention to this thread? he most certainly said Dorian didn't look better in person than in pics or video , he went as far as to say he doesn't have some magical property that allows this , and I mean look at McGoughs quote

Peter McGough Flex Magazine May 2002

Let it be said that the camera can lie at physique contests. Some guys look great onstage but not so great on final film (Dorian Yates, for one) and vice versa (Shawn Ray is an example).

I mean I don't care if you guys agree with this or disagree it doesn't change the fact

It doesn't matter who he said it in reference to , its not accurate to gauge his conditioning based on compressed video & scans knowing what McGough and others have said , so either way he's wrong to try and claim eyewitnesses are wrong and he his right

and again I've seen Ronnie listed at 244 pounds by McGough  ;) either way its moot he's still down 10 pounds so your original assessment he was the same size in 99 V 01 is dead wrong , it doesn't matter if he was lighter by 10 or 13 pounds he's still NOT the same , and you can't try and downplay 10/13 pounds as not much of a difference because one need only look the obvious size difference between 98 250 pounds VS 99 257 pounds , so once again like usmoke you're dead wrong and proven so by me  ;)

dude i cant even argue with you, you take everything out of context, misinterpret the meaning of posts and wont beleive that people can be influenced by others opinions, bias, beleif preserverance,bystander effect etc....

people are not machines, emotions and feelings can convalute opinions and judement. i said dorian had a magical quality if he was the only one who possesed this quality, not what you said(agian you mis-interpret or miss the meaning of posts). it is more logical that this special quality, with no name, quantification,articulation and somehow is missed by the camera(if you realized optic technology, the camera captures things as they are, lighting,depth,angle they are accurate, surveillence cameras,confession tapes, photos in court are primary evidence) is ridiculous. logic would hold that all bodybuilders would appear more impressive in person then print. due to lack of standardization(reference to objects,the norm) they would appear more impressive. if dorian was the only one who had this quality it is just a ridiculous argument, unless you offer some sort of prediction, test etc to prove it.

im sure an elephant is bigger in person then on print due to the above factors. everything is more impressive in person, dont you realize this. life is defined by polarity black/white big/small. cameras and pics reduce this polarity and reference, in person the reality is evident. havent you ever went somewere and said "this looks bigger then the pic, or more impressive" i have, im sure everyone has. however, a picture would show the same qualities eg(a stadium) green grass, same amount of chairs, same angles, same number of walls. but in person reference, and standards in reference to yourself(polarity again) make it more impressive.

to argue that dorian would look better in person while ronnie would not, or that dorian becomes more seperated, cut is ridiculous. from the above analogy dorian would the same walls(cuts) the same grass(shape) the same number of chairs(seperations) and same angles(size) however as is obvious he would(along with others, as this is my argument) appear better in person but not different. the not different is your problem. he wouldnt be larger in relation to other competitors, have more cuts, or be more seperated. this just doesnt make sense.

however, granted your argument about improvments in technology may make pics better, but i dont think the one year or two allowed for a paradigm shift in optics to the point were ronnie had an advantage. hmm.. lets see 95,96,97,98,99 not a big gap there in picture time comparison, one year at the minimum, 3 at the most. agian another empty argument by you, to claim that ronnie in 98 or 99 had better picture resolution is ridiculous. agian you cling to moot arguments,did picture quality revolutionize betwee oct 97 and oct 98 i dont know, you dont know, but i think its safe to bet that it never, unless your a moron. are you a moron?

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22943 on: February 03, 2007, 10:21:20 AM »
the last question is the most pertinent in this argument. the very last one, please answer truthfully.

Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22944 on: February 03, 2007, 10:26:01 AM »
Quote
unless your a moron. are you a moron?

yes. why yes he is!

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22945 on: February 03, 2007, 11:06:12 AM »
the last question is the most pertinent in this argument. the very last one, please answer truthfully.

Morons will never say that they are morons. So when he denies that he is a moron, you now know the "real" answer.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22946 on: February 03, 2007, 11:51:45 AM »
Is this yates of fux?

Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22947 on: February 03, 2007, 11:52:25 AM »
He looks like shit.

so it must be Yates 8)
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pobrecito

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22948 on: February 03, 2007, 11:55:48 AM »
Fux.

And these all own Coleman.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #22949 on: February 03, 2007, 11:58:18 AM »
haha in all seriousness, look at the huge arms.

thats the giveaway.

its fux.

dorian's arms were like 'twigs on a barrel' - soon to be a major motion picture staring Gary Strydom as dorian!



Gary's twigs are perfect for the part!

hahahahaha

 8)
Flower Boy Ran Away