what?
you didn't even MAKE an argument.
posting a bunch ancient quotes is NOT an argument in this debate.
You REALLY need a course or two in philosophy BADLY.
You don't seem to understand what an argument is, what premises are, what evidence is, anything..
Wow maybe you didn't read it lol I made a brilliant argument look again
ND, here is a good of a shot of dorian 93 as you are ever going to get and ronnie still owns him:
Let me explain this to you ( again ) in your opinion and ignorance you're claiming Dorian is getting owned and you're basing this NOT on the criteria just your personal preference let me explain why in fact you are wrong in detail , pay attention .....first of all its not a fair comparison ( old news lol ) one is a contest photo of Dorian and the other is a professional studio shot of Ronnie not exactly fair to start
Now already you're starting off on a bad note and you based your opinion on a slanted comparison and you didn't ( obviously ) take these following quotes into consideration
Flex magazine Jan 1992 on Dorian Yates
" Dorian has the type of physique that looks much better and more powerfull in person than photos. I personally saw him onstage , and Yates is definitely light years ahead of the way he looks in photos.
Now they didn't just say " hey he looks better in person " they say he
definitely light years I mean light years thats says no matter how hard you look at that pic you posted its NOT an accurate depiction of how he is in reality
MuscleMag International Feb 1994 on Dorian Yates at the 1993 Mr Olympia
" He's huge , absolutely HUGE ...he's ripped completely RIPPED. And while he's not in possession of the prettiest physique body by a long shot , he's equipped with all the bodyparts you need to win .
Combine this with the fact that he's 10 TIMES more impressive when you see him onstage at the Olympia than he is in pictures or on videos and you got yourself a winner.
Now couple that one with this one , not only does Dorian look better in real life he is
TEN TIMES MORE IMPRESSIVE we're not talking subtle they emphasize 10 times again you can't intelligently compare the two based on photos knowing this
Another endorsement of how much better Dorian looks in person compared to photos by Chris Cormier
Cormier thought ' I might as well forget about this guy and concentrate on being second. ' There was something else , too , strange. You had to witness him in the flesh. such granite hradness had a property that could nor be held on film or caught on paper. You had to see it live.
I mean once again
Peter McGough Flex Magazine May 2002
Let it be said that the camera can lie at physique contests. Some guys look great onstage but not so great on final film (Dorian Yates, for one) and vice versa (Shawn Ray is an example).
I mean this is proof that your conclusion based on photographs is biased , inaccurate and ignorant , if you were honest with yourself and truly wanted an open intelligent debate on who could be whom you have to ponder this , I say that rhetorically because I know for a fact thats not what you want and the reason you wont consider these facts is because it crushes your opinion
Now lets move on to the two 1993 V 1999 and your empty claim Ronnie is owning Dorian
Lets start with Conditioning , Dorian himself on Pro Bodybuilding Weekly ( 12-12-05 ) when asked how he would fair against Ronnie , he specifically stated he had better condition . now this includes Ronnie 1998/1999 Mr Olympias and 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic , couple that quote with this one from Lee Priest
Lee Priest
HOW DO YOU FEEL DORIAN WOULD FAIR AGAINST RONNIE COLEMAN NOW?
I think Dorian at his best (1993) would easily beat Ronnie. Dorian might not be as symmetrical as Ronnie, but all over he was more complete and in better condition at his best.
now take this into account about Ronnie's conditioning 1999 Mr Olympia by Peter McGough Flex Magazine Jan 2001
RONNIE COLEMAN : ( 264lbs As big as a house , but holding water. In '98 , he was shredded and bone dry at 250 pounds. Last year ( 1999 ) he was 257 pounds but NOT as sharp as '98. This year ( 2000 ) at 264 pounds , he's not as sharp as 99 , which would seem to say that Ronnie is better at a lighter weight .
Now your critique that Ronnie is ' owning ' Dorian from a conditioning standpoint is addressed , corrected (via firsthand accounts and facts ) and dismissed
Lets move on shall we? now this is a summary of the OFFICIAL I.F.B.B Mens Professional Bodybuilding Judging Criteria
The comparisons of the compulsory poses cannot be overemphasized
as these comparisons will help the judge to decide
which competitor has the superior physique from the standpoint of
muscular bulk, balanced development, muscular density and
definition.Now we covered the conditioning/definition portion and came to the obvious conclusion , now we'll adress the topic of muscular bulk ...both weighed the exact same Dorian 257 pounds in 1993 and Ronnie 257 Pounds in 1999 , Dorian is one inch smaller but I don't think that would make any real world difference so NEITHER has an advantage on muscular bulk - push
Moving on we stop at muscular balance , please not the quote ( again ) of Dorian in Pro Bodybuilding Weekly where Dorian specifically states he has better conditioning and balance when directly compared to Ronnie , couple that with the Lee Priest quote where he mentions the same thing
Lee Priest
HOW DO YOU FEEL DORIAN WOULD FAIR AGAINST RONNIE COLEMAN NOW?
I think Dorian at his best (1993) would easily beat Ronnie. Dorian might not be as symmetrical as Ronnie, but all over he was more complete and in better condition at his best.
Another quote from Dorian on his outstanding muscular balance
Interview with David Robson
[ Q ] What were some of your better physical qualities as a bodybuilder, do you think?
Obviously I carried a lot of muscle mass and my trademark was to come into a show in super hard condition. I think my muscles had a certain quality and density from all the years of heavy training that a lot of guys didn't have.
One thing that I think people underrated me on - it was never really mentioned because of my sheer physical size and condition - was my balance and proportion. Not only from muscle group to muscle group, but from upper body to lower body. My skeletal structure and everything else was there and in good balance.
And the final nail in the coffin is from the I.F.B.B judge Bev Francis
Bev Francis : Bodybuilder's phsyique you most admire ?
The man Dorian Yates , his combonation of size and shape makes for an awesome physique , unlike a lot of big guys he's not a load of massive parts just thrown together , His symmetry is almost perfect , Everything is in proportion , no weak bodyparts .
so your critique that Ronnie is owning Dorian from a muscular balance standpoint is , once again , addressed , corrected ( via Yates , Priest and a I.F.B.B. official ) and dismissed
moving right ahead lets tackle the topic of muscular density - I mean this is a no-brainer , Dorian is known for his outstanding muscular density and no sane person would argue that Ronnie is comparable nevermind surpasses him , so your critique that Ronnie is owning Dorian from a muscular density in this comparison is addressed , corrected ( via common sense ) and dismissed
So after taking into consideration your blanket statement that Ronnie is owning Dorian from ANY prospective I've just addressed any and all of your points have corrected them using the Official criteria and eyewitness accounts and my own personal flair
now the best of all of this is we can apply this same logic to ANY pose VS Ronnie 1999 and if you want to follow down a different path and use Ronnie 1998 Dorian still retains all of his advantages PLUS he's ( depending on the year 1993 or 1995 ) now a solid eight pounds heavier than Ronnie 1998 and if you want to claim 2001 Dorian still has his advantages ( although conditioning may be equal ) he is now a full ten pounds heavier ( and thats adopting the heavy of the two weights being listed for Ronnie 2001 , 244-247 pounds ) and if you really want to go off the deep end and use Ronnie 2003 , Dorian still has better muscular balance , better density and conditioning , while there is a big discrepancy in muscular bulk in Ronnie's favor ( but how much of that is conditioned mass ? ) but an advantage none the less , but his balance & proportion are at their all-time worse , and Yates would make him look soft , so in the end no matter what year you come up with , what angle , Dorian still enjoys advantages Ronnie does NOT marry that with the fact Dorian has better presentation ( he has a much better ability to show his physique off to its best advantage ) and he's a better poser in the context of being able to properly pose and hit all the mandatory shots very effectively , so in the end you're left with nothing , you can't counter this argument , you or the other ignorant zealots haven't been able to counter this , this is checkmate
