Author Topic: SB- who’s your pick.  (Read 19536 times)

Irongrip400

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #75 on: February 12, 2025, 09:14:10 AM »
What do you think about you your boy Eli not being a first-ballot hall of famer? I actually was shocked, but I think they got it right. Especially if they kept out the greatest player at his position (Vinatieri) from making it as well.


I certainly never thought he was first ballot, and I’m not even sure he’s a HOF quarterback at all.

King Shizzo

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #76 on: February 12, 2025, 11:46:46 AM »

I certainly never thought he was first ballot, and I’m not even sure he’s a HOF quarterback at all.
I actually feel bad for the Ravens and the Bills this year. Both of them would have given the Eagles a better game.

I think the Chiefs were flat out done and ready to be dethroned. Especially when Kelce was walking to the stadium looking like a 70's pornstar. Also, great drink advertising  as well  ::)


Humble Narcissist

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #77 on: February 13, 2025, 01:18:28 AM »

I certainly never thought he was first ballot, and I’m not even sure he’s a HOF quarterback at all.
His 2 SB wins and family name will definitely get him in.

Grape Ape

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #78 on: February 15, 2025, 07:13:08 AM »

I certainly never thought he was first ballot, and I’m not even sure he’s a HOF quarterback at all.

He absolutely is.

He is in rarified air.
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Irongrip400

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #79 on: February 15, 2025, 08:46:12 AM »
He absolutely is.

He is in rarified air.

Ehh, zero All Pros, four or five Pro Bowls, he wasn’t even the best of his era. Not even top three. I wouldn’t cry foul if he eventually gets in, but he could also not get in and I’d have no issue with that. There’s no such thing as the Hall of Very Good.

Grape Ape

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #80 on: February 15, 2025, 08:57:31 AM »
Ehh, zero All Pros, four or five Pro Bowls, he wasn’t even the best of his era. Not even top three. I wouldn’t cry foul if he eventually gets in, but he could also not get in and I’d have no issue with that. There’s no such thing as the Hall of Very Good.

You could not tell a history of the NFL that didn't include Eli Manning.

Two time SB MVP.

Biggest upset in SB history, beating the statistically greatest team in history.

Greatest single play in NFL history.  Also made another insane play on the game winning drive in the next Superbowl.  Earned his wins in the clutch.

Owns Tom Brady, who some consider to be the best QB ever.

Plus, the paths leading up to those SBs were insane.  Nothing like the 2 win gift paths to the show that other teams regularly got.

Also, 210 games played consecutively, with not one game missed to injury in a 16 year career.
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Irongrip400

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #81 on: February 15, 2025, 11:55:02 AM »
You could not tell a history of the NFL that didn't include Eli Manning.

Two time SB MVP.

Biggest upset in SB history, beating the statistically greatest team in history.

Greatest single play in NFL history.  Also made another insane play on the game winning drive in the next Superbowl.  Earned his wins in the clutch.

Owns Tom Brady, who some consider to be the best QB ever.

Plus, the paths leading up to those SBs were insane.  Nothing like the 2 win gift paths to the show that other teams regularly got.

Also, 210 games played consecutively, with not one game missed to injury in a 16 year career.


Your first and last points are the only one of those that are 100% factual. Anything else is opinion and could be argued they are wrong. Biggest upset from a gambling perspective is Super Bowl 3 so that really can’t be used as an argument. 

Humble Narcissist

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #82 on: February 15, 2025, 12:18:40 PM »
Ehh, zero All Pros, four or five Pro Bowls, he wasn’t even the best of his era. Not even top three. I wouldn’t cry foul if he eventually gets in, but he could also not get in and I’d have no issue with that. There’s no such thing as the Hall of Very Good.
The Hall of Very Good is actually what it is now. There are all kinds of non greats in the hall.

Grape Ape

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #83 on: February 15, 2025, 01:44:23 PM »

Your first and last points are the only one of those that are 100% factual. Anything else is opinion and could be argued they are wrong. Biggest upset from a gambling perspective is Super Bowl 3 so that really can’t be used as an argument.

Brady being Eli's bitch in the Super Bowl is not up for debate.

But, feel free to argue the others.

From a spread perspective, sure on Super Bowl 3.  But I'm factoring in that Patriots were statistically the best offense in NFL history that year, and the Giants held them to 14 points, with 7 of them scored very late.  Plus, undefeated season.

And, even if you did argue the points absolutely perfect, it's not like the things mentioned aren't top three in history anyway.

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Irongrip400

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #84 on: February 15, 2025, 02:41:34 PM »
Brady being Eli's bitch in the Super Bowl is not up for debate.

But, feel free to argue the others.

From a spread perspective, sure on Super Bowl 3.  But I'm factoring in that Patriots were statistically the best offense in NFL history that year, and the Giants held them to 14 points, with 7 of them scored very late.  Plus, undefeated season.

And, even if you did argue the points absolutely perfect, it's not like the things mentioned aren't top three in history anyway.


You wrote that he owned Brady which isn’t true, Brady is 2-3 against him. In the Super Bowl sure, but overall that’s not an owning. The tyree catch was pretty amazing and I would put it up there with some of the top plays but that’s a two man operation so he was part of one of the greatest plays.


Shit man, Joe Flacco has a superbowl mvp and the best TD/INT ratio in that post season. I’ll give you Eli was clutch and a very good quarterback but not even the best in his draft class nor his era. Like I said, I won’t squawk about him getting in, I’d just say don’t be surprised if he doesn’t get in.

IroNat

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #85 on: February 15, 2025, 03:11:46 PM »
His 2 SB wins and family name will definitely get him in.

His dad isn't in the HOF.

King Shizzo

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #86 on: February 15, 2025, 04:13:39 PM »
I can go to bed at night, knowing that the Patriots had the greatest 20 year dynasty in NFL history. Tom Brady is the best Quarterback in NFL history. Bill Bellichick is the best head coach in history. Rob Gronkowski is the best tight end in history. Adam Vinatieri is the best kicker in history.

I'm just proud to be a fan of such greatness.  All other fans wish they could have witnessed such sustained success.

The Chiefs run is impressive, but I don't think they are going to do it for 14 or 15 more years.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #87 on: February 15, 2025, 11:47:34 PM »
His dad isn't in the HOF.
No, he's more popular now than he was when he played. Peyton is in and Arch will be starting next year at Texas.

Irongrip400

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #88 on: February 16, 2025, 06:29:53 AM »
I can go to bed at night, knowing that the Patriots had the greatest 20 year dynasty in NFL history. Tom Brady is the best Quarterback in NFL history. Bill Bellichick is the best head coach in history. Rob Gronkowski is the best tight end in history. Adam Vinatieri is the best kicker in history.

I'm just proud to be a fan of such greatness.  All other fans wish they could have witnessed such sustained success.

The Chiefs run is impressive, but I don't think they are going to do it for 14 or 15 more years.


Gronk being the best is debatable. He was great and probably had a few more years left in him but his injuries robbed him of being the best.

Grape Ape

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #89 on: February 16, 2025, 07:38:00 AM »

You wrote that he owned Brady which isn’t true, Brady is 2-3 against him. In the Super Bowl sure, but overall that’s not an owning. The tyree catch was pretty amazing and I would put it up there with some of the top plays but that’s a two man operation so he was part of one of the greatest plays.


Shit man, Joe Flacco has a superbowl mvp and the best TD/INT ratio in that post season. I’ll give you Eli was clutch and a very good quarterback but not even the best in his draft class nor his era. Like I said, I won’t squawk about him getting in, I’d just say don’t be surprised if he doesn’t get in.

The two man operation part is one of the reasons why the Tyree play is the greatest play.  It wasn't just a throw and catch.  It was a complete improbable escape, throw and catch.  It was twofold.  Add in the context of the what was on the line and it's easy.

Flacco was a one and done.  Eli did it twice, against the best team of the era.  Might have had the greatest playoff ever runs leading up to them too which is important, because all NE had to do was win two easy games to get there, although they almost botched Baltimore in 2011, and might have with the correct late call.

Either way, it's moot.  He'll get in.

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1Patrick

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #90 on: February 16, 2025, 07:51:24 AM »

Irongrip400

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #91 on: February 16, 2025, 07:54:07 AM »
The two man operation part is one of the reasons why the Tyree play is the greatest play.  It wasn't just a throw and catch.  It was a complete improbable escape, throw and catch.  It was twofold.  Add in the context of the what was on the line and it's easy.

Flacco was a one and done.  Eli did it twice, against the best team of the era.  Might have had the greatest playoff ever runs leading up to them too which is important, because all NE had to do was win two easy games to get there, although they almost botched Baltimore in 2011, and might have with the correct late call.

Either way, it's moot.  He'll get in.


Off topic/on topic, bringing up Baltimore, obviously I am a fan so I remember the game, but the 2007 Pats should’ve lost to Baltimore in Baltimore that year. Kyle Boller outplayed Brady and had it not been for two bullshit calls on a drive that the Ravens had them stopped, they would’ve rolled in with a loss. The ref should have never let Rex Ryan calling the TO on that fourth down stand negate that stop and the false start flag that extended the drive was bogus too.

I also remember NY almost taking them down New Year’s Eve that year. I was at a buddies wedding, on a Sunday because they were cheap, and walking upstairs from the venue with a couple of guys to watch that game. It was good, but not Baltimore good(no homer).

Grape Ape

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #92 on: February 16, 2025, 07:58:40 AM »

Off topic/on topic, bringing up Baltimore, obviously I am a fan so I remember the game, but the 2007 Pats should’ve lost to Baltimore in Baltimore that year. Kyle Boller outplayed Brady and had it not been for two bullshit calls on a drive that the Ravens had them stopped, they would’ve rolled in with a loss. The ref should have never let Rex Ryan calling the TO on that fourth down stand negate that stop and the false start flag that extended the drive was bogus too.

I also remember NY almost taking them down New Year’s Eve that year. I was at a buddies wedding, on a Sunday because they were cheap, and walking upstairs from the venue with a couple of guys to watch that game. It was good, but not Baltimore good(no homer).

Oh, I agree.  You might remember more specifics, but I remember late in the Championship game, there was a non PI call in the end zone (I think) and Balt would have won. Or some call, not quite sure.

It was one of those calls the Pats always got during that time, which makes it hilarious when you see Pats fans complaining about the calls the Chiefs got.
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Irongrip400

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #93 on: February 16, 2025, 08:04:11 AM »
Oh, I agree.  You might remember more specifics, but I remember late in the Championship game, there was a non PI call in the end zone (I think) and Balt would have won. Or some call, not quite sure.

It was one of those calls the Pats always got during that time, which makes it hilarious when you see Pats fans complaining about the calls the Chiefs got.


I was talking 07 hours talking about the 11 run. Yeah that one was a heart breaker. Lee Evans drops the winning TD in the end zone and then Billy Cundiff shanked a 30 years field goal to tie it and take to OT. All good though, you got your second SB win versus Brady and we got Boldin the next year and humiliated the Pats in the 2012 AFCCG and I won $1,300 for my yearly Ravens SB bet.

Grape Ape

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #94 on: February 16, 2025, 08:07:23 AM »

I was talking 07 hours talking about the 11 run. Yeah that one was a heart breaker. Lee Evans drops the winning TD in the end zone and then Billy Cundiff shanked a 30 years field goal to tie it and take to OT. All good though, you got your second SB win versus Brady and we got Boldin the next year and humiliated the Pats in the 2012 AFCCG and I won $1,300 for my yearly Ravens SB bet.

Good way to look at it.

At least Balt has hope at the moment.  Giants are a f'n mess.
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GymnJuice

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #95 on: February 17, 2025, 11:24:38 AM »
I can go to bed at night, knowing that the Patriots had the greatest 20 year dynasty in NFL history. Tom Brady is the best Quarterback in NFL history. Bill Bellichick is the best head coach in history. Rob Gronkowski is the best tight end in history. Adam Vinatieri is the best kicker in history.

I'm just proud to be a fan of such greatness.  All other fans wish they could have witnessed such sustained success.

The Chiefs run is impressive, but I don't think they are going to do it for 14 or 15 more years.

Hard to argue against Brady being the GOAT and I doubt anyone wins that many SB in that amount of time.

Belichick would need to win a SB without Brady to be considered the best coach in history.

Grape Ape

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #96 on: February 17, 2025, 11:32:15 AM »
Hard to argue against Brady being the GOAT and I doubt anyone wins that many SB in that amount of time.

Belichick would need to win a SB without Brady to be considered the best coach in history.

Not that hard to argue.

3 SB wins under spygate.  Pats fans have deluded themselves thinking it was no big deal, however, it's on par, if not worse, than the 2017 Houston Astros cheating scandal. 

I mean, read this:  https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart

Quote
Now it was Goodell's turn. The league office lifer, then 49 years old, had been commissioner just 18 months, promoted, in part, because of Kraft's support. His audience wanted to know why he had managed his first crisis in a manner at once hasty and strangely secretive. Goodell had imposed a $500,000 fine on Belichick, a $250,000 fine on the team and the loss of a first-round draft pick just four days after league security officials had caught the Patriots and before he'd even sent a team of investigators to Foxborough, Massachusetts. Those investigators hadn't come up empty: Inside a room accessible only to Belichick and a few others, they found a library of scouting material containing videotapes of opponents' signals, with detailed notes matching signals to plays for many teams going back seven seasons. Among them were handwritten diagrams of the defensive signals of the Pittsburgh Steelers, including the notes used in the January 2002 AFC Championship Game won by the Patriots 24-17. Yet almost as quickly as the tapes and notes were found, they were destroyed, on Goodell's orders: League executives stomped the tapes into pieces and shredded the papers inside a Gillette Stadium conference room.

That's massive.  Read about Ernie Adams in the article, an employee hired solely dedicated to cheating.  It was SO bad, the league itself tried to cover it up.  It's why they were so harsh on deflategate - owners were furious that the Pats got away with it.

Then, take two SB gifts - one from Seattle, one from Atlanta.  Both were losses that were gifted wins because of sheer coaching stupidity.  The games were locked up, and the coaches gave it back.

Tuck rule, hand in the neutral zone, etc, so many calls.  In addition, played in the worst division in the NFL for 15 years, and had the rules were actually changed to benefit Brady from gettting hit.

So, yes, you can make the counter.  I'm not sure that he's not the best, but spygate and all the above context needs to be part of the discussion, but they are always ignored.
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1Patrick

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #97 on: February 17, 2025, 11:33:07 AM »
Hard to argue against Brady being the GOAT and I doubt anyone wins that many SB in that amount of time.

Belichick would need to win a SB without Brady to be considered the best coach in history.
Same applies for  Andy Reid without Mahomes .I’ve read somewhere that Tampa coach Arians let TB run the show.

GymnJuice

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #98 on: February 18, 2025, 11:05:46 AM »
Not that hard to argue.

3 SB wins under spygate.  Pats fans have deluded themselves thinking it was no big deal, however, it's on par, if not worse, than the 2017 Houston Astros cheating scandal. 

I mean, read this:  https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart

That's massive.  Read about Ernie Adams in the article, an employee hired solely dedicated to cheating.  It was SO bad, the league itself tried to cover it up.  It's why they were so harsh on deflategate - owners were furious that the Pats got away with it.

Then, take two SB gifts - one from Seattle, one from Atlanta.  Both were losses that were gifted wins because of sheer coaching stupidity.  The games were locked up, and the coaches gave it back.

Tuck rule, hand in the neutral zone, etc, so many calls.  In addition, played in the worst division in the NFL for 15 years, and had the rules were actually changed to benefit Brady from gettting hit.

So, yes, you can make the counter.  I'm not sure that he's not the best, but spygate and all the above context needs to be part of the discussion, but they are always ignored.

Good points and article.

I think it is reasonable to argue Brady deserves an asterisk. But I think he mitigated a lot of that damage by winning the SB in Tampa. Which something that Montana couldn't do in Kansas City, Farve couldn't do in Minnesota or NY, and Rodgers couldn't do in NY. Manning won a ring in Denver, but most would say he rode others coattails that year.

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Re: SB- who’s your pick.
« Reply #99 on: February 18, 2025, 11:47:37 AM »
You could not tell a history of the NFL that didn't include Eli Manning.

Two time SB MVP.

Biggest upset in SB history, beating the statistically greatest team in history.

Greatest single play in NFL history.  Also made another insane play on the game winning drive in the next Superbowl.  Earned his wins in the clutch.

Owns Tom Brady, who some consider to be the best QB ever.

Plus, the paths leading up to those SBs were insane.  Nothing like the 2 win gift paths to the show that other teams regularly got.

Also, 210 games played consecutively, with not one game missed to injury in a 16 year career.

He was good when he played "Chad Powers"