Author Topic: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily  (Read 7826 times)

Royalty

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #75 on: February 19, 2025, 06:22:50 AM »
Hey sorry! I was just curious to see what others thought of that daily amount. Personally, I think it's all misdirection by the guy to keep people from thinking that he's on PEDs which he probably is. We can end this thread if you want. And I do have this hip shoulder bag that I like that I keep my ipad and other things in when I go out and know that I'll have time to read. Wife and daughter hate it and tell me that I'm too old for that but oh well. Maybe I CAN get away with a fanny pack...


Use the Rosanne Barr voice when you read this

SweetDaddySiki

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #76 on: February 19, 2025, 08:00:24 AM »

Use the Rosanne Barr voice when you read this




Royalty

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #77 on: February 19, 2025, 08:05:04 AM »
This creatine thread has been amazing 🤣

SweetDaddySiki

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #78 on: February 19, 2025, 08:19:03 AM »
This creatine thread has been amazing 🤣
:D :D :D  Just wanted to see what people thought about that amount used daily. We can stop the thread if you want.
I tried creatine in the 90's when I was on the programs from Bob Paris' books (no homo). Not to start a flame war but "shaping" routines do work but when I started taking creatine every part of the muscle got bigger and ruined my "aesthetics" and just gained mass.

38 returns

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #79 on: February 19, 2025, 08:50:14 AM »
what did paris recommend?

I saw him at a semnar about 89 or so and he was a lot. bigger than I thought- also reallly wide shoulders. the women in the audience were going mad for him.
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Van_Bilderass

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #80 on: February 19, 2025, 10:03:53 AM »
but when I started taking creatine every part of the muscle got bigger and ruined my "aesthetics" and just gained mass.

Come on man, this is on par with women saying a few workouts made them very muscular. If Paris was someone to emulate why didn't steroids ruin his aesthetics when they cause water retention? Creatine will not ruin any aesthetics, most only gain 2-3lbs, some none, with moderate creatine intake. Besides, if it did cause these unwanted effects you'd piss it out immediately after stopping it. Most of the time many supplement effects are completely imaginary, both positive and negative. You can just read supp reviews on amazon or iherb or whereever  to see placebo and nocebo in full effect. I gave the example of Kre-Alkalyn and other fancy creatines that supposedly have all the positive and none of the bloat effects of creatine, and which most reviewers agree work as advertised; unbeknownst to them it's all the same stuff, one of creatines effects is some extra intracellular water. Imaginary effects. Many also give bad reviews to proven supps, because the supp smelled strange or had the wrong color or caused imaginary sides. I'm also amazed at the number of people who take supps without even knowing what it's supposedly used for. I kick myself for giving this any energy but what the hell...  :D

One friend at work bought creatine after he asked for supps that worked and after one dose he thougt he felt a twinge in his stomach and refused to try any more. Sensitive...  ::) :D

beakdoctor

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #81 on: February 19, 2025, 10:19:50 AM »

Use the Rosanne Barr voice when you read this

Use a fucking brain when posting online. I can only imagine what other forums you've fucked up with your contributions.

Royalty

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #82 on: February 19, 2025, 10:41:26 AM »
:D :D :D  Just wanted to see what people thought about that amount used daily. We can stop the thread if you want.
I tried creatine in the 90's when I was on the programs from Bob Paris' books (no homo). Not to start a flame war but "shaping" routines do work but when I started taking creatine every part of the muscle got bigger and ruined my "aesthetics" and just gained mass.


Come on man, this is on par with women saying a few workouts made them very muscular. If Paris was someone to emulate why didn't steroids ruin his aesthetics when they cause water retention? Creatine will not ruin any aesthetics, most only gain 2-3lbs, some none, with moderate creatine intake. Besides, if it did cause these unwanted effects you'd piss it out immediately after stopping it. Most of the time many supplement effects are completely imaginary, both positive and negative. You can just read supp reviews on amazon or iherb or whereever  to see placebo and nocebo in full effect. I gave the example of Kre-Alkalyn and other fancy creatines that supposedly have all the positive and none of the bloat effects of creatine, and which most reviewers agree work as advertised; unbeknownst to them it's all the same stuff, one of creatines effects is some extra intracellular water. Imaginary effects. Many also give bad reviews to proven supps, because the supp smelled strange or had the wrong color or caused imaginary sides. I'm also amazed at the number of people who take supps without even knowing what it's supposedly used for. I kick myself for giving this any energy but what the hell...  :D

One friend at work bought creatine after he asked for supps that worked and after one dose he thougt he felt a twinge in his stomach and refused to try any more. Sensitive...  ::) :D


This is a garbage thread. It’s all about Sweetdaddysiki getting some attention for himself.


The “Creatine ruined my esthetics” comment is just one clue.

SweetDaddySiki

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #83 on: February 19, 2025, 10:55:10 AM »


This is a garbage thread. It’s all about Sweetdaddysiki getting some attention for himself.


The “Creatine ruined my esthetics” comment is just one clue.
I'm 58; If I wanted attention I'd go out in pubic wearing my stupid (but hip) crossbody bag.
Really, lets end this thread. I was just curious what others thought of 15 grams of creatine a day. I now see what others think so we can end this.

Grape Ape

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #84 on: February 19, 2025, 11:08:48 AM »
I'm 58; If I wanted attention I'd go out in pubic wearing my stupid (but hip) crossbody bag.
Really, lets end this thread. I was just curious what others thought of 15 grams of creatine a day. I now see what others think so we can end this.

Threads are gonna thread man, have to let them ride.

However, Rambone and _aj_ have suggested they like the 15g, and they are both in shape, so just give it a shot and see if you like it.
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MCWAY

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #85 on: February 20, 2025, 10:30:01 AM »
93-94, the retail on MetRx was $3.15 a packet. EAS's original Phosphagain, which was MexRx's competitor when Phillips and Connelly had their split was about the same price at $3.25, but Phillips threw in some creatine in the mix on that version. Phosphagen, the regular bulk creatine, was on special from EAS at $39 / 200grams in 94.

Just a few prices I was able to grab quickly.

I remember the creatine being under lock and key for years at our local GNCs.

Edit - The original Phosphagain because few remember it -

.

It was horrible stuff, came in one flavor, salty vanilla. Also for like a year or two, they shipped Phosphagain and Phosphagen HP in those crumby cardboard tubes. God help you in you spilt some water close by.

I remember Phosphagain. It costs $70 back in the mid-90s. For all the fancy gibberish in the ingredients list, it was basically just milk and egg protein with creatine and some vitamins in it.

Grape Ape

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #86 on: February 20, 2025, 10:41:04 AM »
I remember Phosphagain. It costs $70 back in the mid-90s. For all the fancy gibberish in the ingredients list, it was basically just milk and egg protein with creatine and some vitamins in it.

I thought Phosphagain was creatine + a boatload of sugar.

I'm probably wrong though, but I do remember them having a product like that.
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BB

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #87 on: February 20, 2025, 10:59:34 AM »
I thought Phosphagain was creatine + a boatload of sugar.

I'm probably wrong though, but I do remember them having a product like that.

Phosphagen HP was the creatine and sugar mix.

Phosphagen was the plain bulk creatine.

And Phosphagain was the shitty MetRx replacement when Connelly and Phillips had a spat over who was owed what. It only lasted 1 or 2 years, before they replaced it with Myoplex, which was more or less, the direct MetRx rip off with just a tiny bit more protein (37 grams vs 42).

Phillips had a few products like that starting out. He was good at marketing, but bad at packaging for a few years. He liked bland colors, plainer packaging, and selling barrels, when people were digging the packets more. 

beakdoctor

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #88 on: February 20, 2025, 11:00:07 AM »
I'm 58; If I wanted attention I'd go out in pubic wearing my stupid (but hip) crossbody bag.
Really, lets end this thread. I was just curious what others thought of 15 grams of creatine a day. I now see what others think so we can end this.

Siki, don't worry about what royalty says, there is something royaly fucked in his head. He looks like shit and his opinions on bodybuilding are skewed by his failed attempt at bodybuilding. 20 years ago he would've tried anything. Now he's a bitter schmoe who thinks everything is a scam because it didn't work for him.

MCWAY

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #89 on: February 20, 2025, 11:07:28 AM »
Creatine has been around for decades now, has hundreds of studies to back up the positive benefits.

It is now also marketed as a nootropic and longevity supplement in addition to it's performance benefits.

While it does have a high safety profile, Ive never heard of anyone taking 15 grams a day. I have no idea what-if any- side effects come on at that dose. It very well may work wonders at that dose. Because it draws water into your muscles I would assume it affects hydration. Anything affecting hydration could be harmful if overdone.

But , again, there are hundreds of studies on it at all kinds of doses and it is one of the safest, most versatile supplements. Try it for a week or two and find out...


That's what most people did back in the day when they loaded with creatine for the first week. Usually, it was 20-30 grams per day for a week, followed by a maintenance dose of 5 grams per day.

I first used creatine nearly 30 years ago in 1996. It was EAS' Phosphagen HP (Fruit Punch). I took four servings per day (20 grams) for the first 5 days and did one serving afterwards.

If you've never loaded with it before, you'll swear creatine is manna from heaven. I went from 215 to 222 in one week, from 222 to 225 the second week, and 225 to 227 the third week.

Suffice it to say, I've never replicated those results since then. Hence, I refer to creatine as the crack of supplements (reportedly, you get the biggest high the first time you use it).

MCWAY

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #90 on: February 20, 2025, 11:10:04 AM »
I only tried it once in 1984 after seeing Hulk Hogan do it. After drinking it down I puked all over the kitchen.

That's why you don't drink them directly. You add them to milk or half-and-half and add some sweetener like Nestle Quik.

I've been doing that for decades. In fact, that's what I had for breakfast. Only now, it's only two eggs and 8-10 fl. oz. of milk vs. six eggs and 16 oz of milk back in college.

Phosphagen HP was the creatine and sugar mix.

Phosphagen was the plain bulk creatine.

And Phosphagain was the shitty MetRx replacement when Connelly and Phillips had a spat over who was owed what. It only lasted 1 or 2 years, before they replaced it with Myoplex, which was more or less, the direct MetRx rip off with just a tiny bit more protein (37 grams vs 42).

Phillips had a few products like that starting out. He was good at marketing, but bad at packaging for a few years. He liked bland colors, plainer packaging, and selling barrels, when people were digging the packets more. 

They actually had a Phosphagain 2 (which had 25 grams of protein vs 20 for Phosphagain) before phasing it out once MyoPlex gained some steam.

Phosphagen HP was the original Kool-Aid-style creatine supplement. That's why loading was never an issue. The stuff was YUMMY!!

MuscleTech bagged on Phosphagen HP at first when it released Creatine 6000-ES (creatine with arginine, glycne, and methionine). Two years later, we get Cell-Tech, which was based double the serving of Phosphagen HP (10 grams of creatine and 75 grams of dextrose vs. 5.25 grams of creatine and 33 grams of dextrose, respectively). MuscleTech sprinkled some ALA in it and told you to load by taking two servings per day, one first thing in the morning and the other immediately after training.

The ALA was reported to increase insulin even more than just the sugar alone, which let you cram 10 grams of creatine into your muscles. Cell-Tech was quite delicious.....except for the orange version  :-X

Rambone

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #91 on: February 20, 2025, 11:33:05 AM »
Phosphagen HP was the creatine and sugar mix.

Phosphagen was the plain bulk creatine.

And Phosphagain was the shitty MetRx replacement when Connelly and Phillips had a spat over who was owed what. It only lasted 1 or 2 years, before they replaced it with Myoplex, which was more or less, the direct MetRx rip off with just a tiny bit more protein (37 grams vs 42).

Phillips had a few products like that starting out. He was good at marketing, but bad at packaging for a few years. He liked bland colors, plainer packaging, and selling barrels, when people were digging the packets more.

I drank strawberry Phosphagain 2 one time in high school. I literally thought I was on deca!

BB

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #92 on: February 20, 2025, 11:54:11 AM »

Phosphagen HP was the original Kool-Aid-style creatine supplement. That's why loading was never an issue. The stuff was YUMMY!!


I remember being so happy when it came out because I didn't have to bother finding grape juice, etc..... And I could dump it in with Designer protein and it would taste ok.

Was never a Cell Tech guy unless I could get it cheap. Our GNC always bought more of the citrus flavor that I found hash.

--------------------------

I drank strawberry Phosphagain 2 one time in high school. I literally thought I was on deca!

Ha, I remember being so pissed that I couldn't afford HMB. I also remember me and a buddy looking at this cover -

.

And us thinking, sure the guy is on steroids, but if we bought the EAS stuff, and followed it to the letter, we could maybe get to 80-85% of Danny Hester there. So douchy.

Grape Ape

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #93 on: February 20, 2025, 03:39:08 PM »
Connolly used to train at my gym sometimes.

He smelled like shit lol.
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beakdoctor

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #94 on: February 20, 2025, 06:38:28 PM »

That's what most people did back in the day when they loaded with creatine for the first week. Usually, it was 20-30 grams per day for a week, followed by a maintenance dose of 5 grams per day.

I first used creatine nearly 30 years ago in 1996. It was EAS' Phosphagen HP (Fruit Punch). I took four servings per day (20 grams) for the first 5 days and did one serving afterwards.

If you've never loaded with it before, you'll swear creatine is manna from heaven. I went from 215 to 222 in one week, from 222 to 225 the second week, and 225 to 227 the third week.

Suffice it to say, I've never replicated those results since then. Hence, I refer to creatine as the crack of supplements (reportedly, you get the biggest high the first time you use it).

Yes! That is right! I used it as a teenager. I remember the loading phase now. Shit, that was over 3 decades ago for me. But yeah, I tried as a teen. Don't remember feeling much but do remember the 'loading phase' can't recall the dosages. Haven't used it since unless it is an ingredient in a pre-workout but IIRC creatine was supposed to be taken every day whether you worked out or not and I don't need to take pre-workout 300 mgs of caffeine and DMHA and God knows what else on a day I'm not headed toward the gym.

Now that I think about it though. I think I purchased Kre-Alkalyn at the Arnold Classic expo. This was around the time Flex Wheeler got those shitty tattoos and was marketing himself as 'The Natural Freak' , as naive as I was - even then in my 30's- I was like WTF? There's no way on earth this guy expects us to believe he's natural. Anyway,  I digress, I got nothing from Kre-Alkalyn. So it's been awhile since I took it as a stand alone and my memory on the dosages is a little fuzzy. I thought 6 grams was the sweet spot. ;)

Van_Bilderass

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #95 on: February 20, 2025, 06:47:33 PM »
TC Luoma worked for Bill Phillips iirc. Later he started the testosterone weebsite. He said basically the only thing special about Met-Rx was it was the first powder to incorporate misclellar casein. It was and is a good protein, but that's about it. The Met-Rx ads and Muscle Media wrote up the genius Scott Connelly and used the worst photo I've see, it was a just a black smudge, pretty suspicious imo. Connelly later had some brand of protein which claimed to have isolated special fractions from whey that had special effects, I don't know, tough Patrick Arnold seemed to think highly of him and his proteins and he is a pretty solid and smart guy from my experience on the forums. Made the steroids for BALCO and "discovered" DMAA and phenibut which are potent drugs sold as supps.

People said Duchaine said, "HMB feels like Deca" but he was quoting Phillips, and said if it was worthless he would flame him on the internet. Internet was new back then. :D
However, it does appear to "work" to a certain extent but it's unknown if it's a any better than Leucine or if a guy who eats a lot of protein will benefit (same as with BCAA or EAA supps). So it's not a total scam but probably will not do anything noticeable for most. Might be worthwhile if you are sick and losing muscle or coming back from illness. Much later I used to buy the inexpensive powder and mix it in with my EAAs when I took insulin around workouts, figured it wouldn't hurt at least. Some bb pro gurus/coaches still recommend it to clients.

Cell-Tech "worked" in that you were also carb loading at the same time as you were taking creatine. Plus you had the extra sodium.

MCWAY

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #96 on: February 20, 2025, 06:48:56 PM »
I remember being so happy when it came out because I didn't have to bother finding grape juice, etc..... And I could dump it in with Designer protein and it would taste ok.

Was never a Cell Tech guy unless I could get it cheap. Our GNC always bought more of the citrus flavor that I found hash.

When I was in the military, I was getting Cell-Tech left and right. Not only were the 7-lb jugs on clearance for like $20, but because you could use the Gold Card any day of the week at the stores on base, I often got the 7-lb jugs for $16.

And because of the promotion (and just because the clerk wanted to get rid of them), I got all three of those MuscleTech DVDs from the mid-2000s for free, despite paying 80% less for Cell-Tech.


--------------------------

Ha, I remember being so pissed that I couldn't afford HMB. I also remember me and a buddy looking at this cover -

.

And us thinking, sure the guy is on steroids, but if we bought the EAS stuff, and followed it to the letter, we could maybe get to 80-85% of Danny Hester there. So douchy.

Now you can get HMB dirt cheap. And it works well (as do glutamine and the other stuff). It's just that guys like Bill Phillps and Danny Hester were downing HMB capsules like candy, taking six grams a day (24 capsules, since those weak things were 250 mg a piece). And they were taking 20 grams of glutamine a day. Thirty years ago, you needed a second mortgage to use that much of those supplements.

I have that EAS supplement guide from 1997. Those prices were ridiculous.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #97 on: February 20, 2025, 06:55:12 PM »
Yes! That is right! I used it as a teenager. I remember the loading phase now. Shit, that was over 3 decades ago for me. But yeah, I tried as a teen. Don't remember feeling much but do remember the 'loading phase' can't recall the dosages. Haven't used it since unless it is an ingredient in a pre-workout but IIRC creatine was supposed to be taken every day whether you worked out or not and I don't need to take pre-workout 300 mgs of caffeine and DMHA and God knows what else on a day I'm not headed toward the gym.

Now that I think about it though. I think I purchased Kre-Alkalyn at the Arnold Classic expo. This was around the time Flex Wheeler got those shitty tattoos and was marketing himself as 'The Natural Freak' , as naive as I was - even then in my 30's- I was like WTF? There's no way on earth this guy expects us to believe he's natural. Anyway,  I digress, I got nothing from Kre-Alkalyn. So it's been awhile since I took it as a stand alone and my memory on the dosages is a little fuzzy. I thought 6 grams was the sweet spot. ;)

As I said upthread Kre-Alkalyn is just plain creatine monohydrate with a tiny bit of soda ash, iirc, to manipulate PH. The same can be achieved by taking some baking soda with your regular creatine; if Kre-Alkalyn didn't "work" it was because dosage was too low. I thought creatine ethyl ester seemed to work but later it was shown to rapidly turn to useless creatinine in the stomach and therefore supposedly wouldn't do anything. Baking soda/sodium bicarbonate does have some effects that might be beneficial but it has to be taken at at least 4 grams. I used to, still do, take it to control acid reflux and I imagine it does increase performance slightly  :D

MCWAY

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #98 on: February 20, 2025, 07:03:02 PM »
TC Luoma worked for Bill Phillips iirc. Later he started the testosterone weebsite. He said basically the only thing special about Met-Rx was it was the first powder to incorporate misclellar casein. It was and is a good protein, but that's about it. The Met-Rx ads and Muscle Media wrote up the genius Scott Connelly and used the worst photo I've see, it was a just a black smudge, pretty suspicious imo. Connelly later had some brand of protein which claimed to have isolated special fractions from whey that had special effects, I don't know, tough Patrick Arnold seemed to think highly of him and his proteins and he is a pretty solid and smart guy from my experience on the forums. Made the steroids for BALCO and "discovered" DMAA and phenibut which are potent drugs sold as supps.

People said Duchaine said, "HMB feels like Deca" but he was quoting Phillips, and said if it was worthless he would flame him on the internet. Internet was new back then. :D
However, it does appear to "work" to a certain extent but it's unknown if it's a any better than Leucine or if a guy who eats a lot of protein will benefit (same as with BCAA or EAA supps). So it's not a total scam but probably will not do anything noticeable for most.
Might be worthwhile if you are sick and losing muscle or coming back from illness. Much later I used to buy the inexpensive powder and mix it in with my EAAs when I took insulin around workouts, figured it wouldn't hurt at least. Some bb pro gurus/coaches still recommend it to clients.

Phillips forgot to mention (unless you read his 1997 Supplement Review) that he was taking at least SIX GRAMS of HMB a day. His brand came in 250-mg capsules. So that's at least TWENTY-FOUR capsules a day, which means the big bottle (360 capsules) would last you a whopping TWO WEEKS!!

NFL Hall of Famer, Shannon Sharpe, used to endorse EAS supplements, right around the time the Broncos won those two Super Bowls. So, that really put EAS on the map

Van_Bilderass

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Re: 15 Grams of Creatine Daily
« Reply #99 on: February 20, 2025, 08:07:58 PM »
Phillips forgot to mention (unless you read his 1997 Supplement Review) that he was taking at least SIX GRAMS of HMB a day. His brand came in 250-mg capsules. So that's at least TWENTY-FOUR capsules a day, which means the big bottle (360 capsules) would last you a whopping TWO WEEKS!!

NFL Hall of Famer, Shannon Sharpe, used to endorse EAS supplements, right around the time the Broncos won those two Super Bowls. So, that really put EAS on the map

I was putting 10 grams in each of my EAA shakes because it's so cheap now :D I wasn't expecting anything special, just added a baggie of it when buying bulk EAAs. Even if it "works" it's impossible to measure what it did, especially when taking EAAs and taking in lots of protein in general. Another amino Phillips hyped a bit was ornithine alpha ketoglutarate, based on some paper saying it was trialed in illness to boost anabolism. Aminos work, they obviously have biological functions, but how would you measure the effect? I'm taking taurine and acetylcysteine with glycine and acetylglutathione and some other aminos for antioxidant effects, which are proven, which I suspect might be good for me at the moment, but the effect is hard to gauge, it's just hope :D

Here's an example of a drug company selling a supplement with HMB to support wound healing etc.

https://www.juven.com/

Quote
  Juven® Orange Therapeutic Nutrition Powder
Clinically shown to support wound healing in as little as 2 weeks1,* and help build and maintain lean body mass in 4 weeks
2,†

Juven contains a unique blend of key ingredients to help support wound healing.‡ Each packet mixes easily in 8-10 oz of water or juice and contains:

HMB: slows protein breakdown, enhances tissue growth, and stabilizes muscle cell membranes3,4
Arginine: supports blood flow and vasodilation5,6
Glutamine: supports the immune system7
Collagen protein: shown to accelerate the rate of wound healing8,9
Micronutrients zinc and vitamins C, E, and B12: all important in the wound healing process
*In healthy elderly adults.

†In patients with cancer cachexia.
‡With HMB, arginine, glutamine, collage protein, and micronutrients.

References: 1. Williams JZ, et al. Ann Surg. 2002;236(3):369-375. 2. May PE, et al. Am J Surg. 2002;183:471-479. 3. Wilson GJ, et al. Nutr Metab. 2008;5:1. 4. Nissen SL, et al. J Nutr] 

I wouldn't say stuff like this is "proven" to actually work like advertised, even with a clinical study, more like there's indications it might be helpful  8)