This guy is on 2 grams of gear/week !!

[POB]

You can really get ALOT out of 5-700mg weekly. Imho the dif between 500 and 2000 is maybe 20% and even lower if you don’t have the muscle mass and androgen receptors for that higher dose the extra is a waste. Best analogy I’ve heard is your filling a cup with water once it’s full it full adding more will just put stress on the body

[POB]

Here ya go

Dusty flat out said 1200 test was no better than 750 test at 28:30

They both ran test eq.

Ron 750 test 600 eq

Dusty 750 test 300 eq abombs

Agree with all of it

[dj181]

Agree with all of it

Yep and id say your 500-700 is spot on

I looked very very good on 400

200 test 200 deca

Right now I'm trying 250

100 test 150 VAR

If it works then SO BE IT

Tyatys probably bottom end though

Can't imagine 100-150 total doing enough

But for me 400 works FOR SURE

And enjoy this tune 😎😎😎

[Van_Bilderass]

Foundation my arse

Yes. You don't need no stinking fouundation. Best results = put a teen on drugs, then start lifting. Start kind of foundational. GH and Test day one. If diet is calorie heavy might start a little Lantus as well. Then as muscle keeps growing, and thus androgen receptors, both through extra muscle and through the test, you slowly keep upping the dose each time the athlete stalls. If the genetics allow, you could have a pro size fella in a couple of years. Years past everyone wasted at least half the year "cycling" which serves not much of a purpose. All the best bodybuilders started drugs very soon after entering the gym. No need to wear out the body lifting like a madman and "bulking" without drugs which only adds new fat cells.

You can really get ALOT out of 5-700mg weekly. Imho the dif between 500 and 2000 is maybe 20% and even lower if you don’t have the muscle mass and androgen receptors for that higher dose the extra is a waste. Best analogy I’ve heard is your filling a cup with water once it’s full it full adding more will just put stress on the body

Look at the study on drug naive men put on up to 600mg. The highest dose was the best. As Duchaine said, hit it relatively hard, "750-1000 test. Nothing less will do." Well, it "will" but why go suboptimal? GH should definitely be in from the start, zero reason not to add it. Why add extra bodyfat if you don't have to?

[joswift]

Yes. You don't need no stinking fouundation. Best results = put a teen on drugs, then start lifting. Start kind of foundational. GH and Test day one. If diet is calorie heavy might start a little Lantus as well. Then as muscle keeps growing, and thus androgen receptors, both through extra muscle and through the test, you slowly keep upping the dose each time the athlete stalls. If the genetics allow, you could have a pro size fella in a couple of years. Years past everyone wasted at least half the year "cycling" which serves not much of a purpose. All the best bodybuilders started drugs very soon after entering the gym. No need to wear out the body lifting like a madman and "bulking" without drugs which only adds new fat cells.

Look at the study on drug naive men put on up to 600mg. The highest dose was the best. As Duchaine said, hit it relatively hard, "750-1000 test. Nothing less will do." Well, it "will" but why go suboptimal? GH should definitely be in from the start, zero reason not to add it. Why add extra bodyfat if you don't have to?

You can get a guy with good genetics from day one to pro bodybuilder in 3/4 years

Many pros in the 80s only took that long
Haney won the Olympia at  23 Shawn Ray got his pro card at 22

[Van_Bilderass]

You can get a guy with good genetics from day one to pro bodybuilder in 3/4 years

Many pros in the 80s only took that long
Haney won the Olympia at  23 Shawn Ray got his pro card at 22

Exactly. Many of these pros preached patience, "it doesn't happen over night." WTF are they talking about? Today it can happen even faster because you don't have to experiment much and it's better known how these things work. There's really no need to "cycle" IMO, if blood work is good why get off, only to deflate, stress the body, and then spend time building back up. Since I can't do very short posts, I'll elaborate LOL. I personally speculate that after say 10 or 12 months some may feel a sense of burnout due to a variet of factors. And even if receptor desensitization isn't a 'thing' really, there might be a certain overall desensitization of various system. Then an HCG bridge of a couple of months might be useful. HCG would send an artificial signal to force test production. Maybe some clen to mildly stimulate an alternate, non-androgen anti-catabolic/mildly anabolic pathway. That sort of thing. Alernately a period  of just 10mg (70 a week) a day of 'true HRT 'that's close to physiological levels. Injected test isn't ever truly physiological though, because natural test goes up and down over the day.

[dj181]

Exactly. Many of these pros preached patience, "it doesn't happen over night." WTF are they talking about? Today it can happen even faster because you don't have to experiment much and it's better known how these things work. There's really no need to "cycle" IMO, if blood work is good why get off, only to deflate, stress the body, and then spend time building back up. Since I can't do very short posts, I'll elaborate LOL. I personally speculate that after say 10 or 12 months some may feel a sense of burnout due to a variet of factors. And even if receptor desensitization isn't a 'thing' really, there might be a certain overall desensitization of various system. Then an HCG bridge of a couple of months might be useful. HCG would send an artificial signal to force test production. Maybe some clen to mildly stimulate an alternate, non-androgen anti-catabolic/mildly anabolic pathway. That sort of thing. Alernately a period  of just 10mg (70 a week) a day of 'true HRT 'that's close to physiological levels. Injected test isn't ever truly physiological though, because natural test goes up and down over the day.

Yep

You will know if you have pro potential after 6-9 months on no more than 1500 mge total

[Van_Bilderass]

Yep

You will know if you have pro potential after 6-9 months on no more than 1500 mge total

You might see it in 6 weeks Although Nick Walker competed and looked like shit and showed close to zero potential, so there might be exceptions.

Also, today many actually turn "pro" bad genetics, poor structure, poor muscle bellies, "pro" means less and less...

Didn't Mentzer say max potential could be reached in a year, or was it a bit longer? In any case it's fast IMO, maybe a year to circa-max so to speak, provided you are on the trifecta pretty much from the start: steroids+GH+Insulin. At 19 Mentzer  was pretty much there in my opinion, same with Viator, not a hell of a lot happened after that.

[dj181]

You might see it in 6 weeks Although Nick Walker competed and looked like shit and showed close to zero potential, so there might be exceptions.

Also, today many actually turn "pro" bad genetics, poor structure, poor muscle bellies, "pro" means less and less...

Didn't Mentzer say max potential could be reached in a year, or was it a bit longer? In any case it's fast IMO, maybe a year to circa-max so to speak, provided you are on the trifecta pretty much from the start: steroids+GH+Insulin. At 19 Mentzer  was pretty much there in my opinion, same with Viator, not a hell of a lot happened after that.

True bout mike he was there at 19 or 85% there

[joswift]

Exactly. Many of these pros preached patience, "it doesn't happen over night." WTF are they talking about? Today it can happen even faster because you don't have to experiment much and it's better known how these things work. There's really no need to "cycle" IMO, if blood work is good why get off, only to deflate, stress the body, and then spend time building back up. Since I can't do very short posts, I'll elaborate LOL. I personally speculate that after say 10 or 12 months some may feel a sense of burnout due to a variet of factors. And even if receptor desensitization isn't a 'thing' really, there might be a certain overall desensitization of various system. Then an HCG bridge of a couple of months might be useful. HCG would send an artificial signal to force test production. Maybe some clen to mildly stimulate an alternate, non-androgen anti-catabolic/mildly anabolic pathway. That sort of thing. Alernately a period  of just 10mg (70 a week) a day of 'true HRT 'that's close to physiological levels. Injected test isn't ever truly physiological though, because natural test goes up and down over the day.

I know a guy back in the 80s used to go on and off, once he decided to stay on and blast and cruise he became a pro in 2 years

[njflex]

Shane dimOra 19,,,Eddie Robinson and Franco santoriello looked crazy as teens

[dj181]

Shane dimOra 19,,,Eddie Robinson and Franco santoriello looked crazy as teens

And they were all.manlets

5'6-5'7

But at least Robinson x wifey was a very fine piece of Italian ass♥️♥️♥️♥️🥰🥰🥰🥰

[BigRo]

Yes. You don't need no stinking fouundation. Best results = put a teen on drugs, then start lifting. Start kind of foundational. GH and Test day one. If diet is calorie heavy might start a little Lantus as well. Then as muscle keeps growing, and thus androgen receptors, both through extra muscle and through the test, you slowly keep upping the dose each time the athlete stalls. If the genetics allow, you could have a pro size fella in a couple of years. Years past everyone wasted at least half the year "cycling" which serves not much of a purpose. All the best bodybuilders started drugs very soon after entering the gym. No need to wear out the body lifting like a madman and "bulking" without drugs which only adds new fat cells.

Look at the study on drug naive men put on up to 600mg. The highest dose was the best. As Duchaine said, hit it relatively hard, "750-1000 test. Nothing less will do." Well, it "will" but why go suboptimal? GH should definitely be in from the start, zero reason not to add it. Why add extra bodyfat if you don't have to?

Terrible advices.

[Van_Bilderass]

Terrible advices.

It's not advice per se, I advice no one to get on steroids. This is my view of how to do it, as safely and quickly as possible, and I can write whole pages on the whys

I beg of you. Just this once, debate me on this Tell me why it's "terrible." I won't tell you you're wrong or try to attack you, just a little dialogue It's just that I've given this a lot of thought, I juiced first at about 17, 48 now, seen a lot of bodybuilders over those years and so on. I will say that all views are subject to change, if perspective changes with time. I know I did everything wrong wrt juice and could have maxed out within 2 years if I'd only known what I know now. Wouldn't have damaged my body as much either.

Is it unhealthy? Will it damage aesthetics and ruin your physique? What? How would you go about it if a beginner wanted to become the best bb he could be?

[BigRo]

It's not advice per se, I advice no one to get on steroids. This is my view of how to do it, as safely and quickly as possible, and I can write whole pages on the whys

I beg of you. Just this once, debate me on this Tell me why it's "terrible." I won't tell you you're wrong or try to attack you, just a little dialogue It's just that I've given this a lot of thought, I juiced first at about 17, 48 now, seen a lot of bodybuilders over those years and so on. I will say that all views are subject to change, if perspective changes with time. I know I did everything wrong wrt juice and could have maxed out within 2 years if I'd only known what I know now. Wouldn't have damaged my body as much either.

Is it unhealthy? Will it damage aesthetics and ruin your physique? What? How would you go about it if a beginner wanted to become the best bb he could be?

I would suggest staying natural for a few years, I made alot of progress naturally from 13-18 then tried pro hormones and clen, then anavar and t3 when 19 but didnt juice properly til my late twenties. I think getting young teens straight on all that gear is terrible the body has to develop naturally first and muscle laid down naturally will stick more. I would not encourage any teenager to become a pro bodybuilder I would suggest against it unless they are exceptional. Roiding heavily before age of 25 means more chance of permanent endocrine fuckery for life. And the mental health issues and hormonal disruption at that age can cause bad life choices and experiences, better to develop a calmer wiser mind.

[dj181]

Do blakely said not to use gear til 25

But I'm pretty sure he hoped on at 21-22

I don't think I'm gonna last very much longer 💪😎

[MAXX]

I'm also not sure it's absolute best to start juicing in the teens.

The best example in the world of this would be Ronnie Coleman. He claims he started juicing right after 1991 but I'd say 1988, or 89, based on pictures from different years. That would still mean he started at age 24/25.

[joswift]

I'm also not sure it's absolute best to start juicing in the teens.

The best example in the world of this would be Ronnie Coleman. He claims he started juicing right after 1991 but I'd say 1988, or 89, based on pictures from different years. That would still mean he started at age 24/25.

didnt do him any harm did it?   

Maybe he should have started earlier and finished earlier

[Coach is Back!]

Yes. You don't need no stinking fouundation. Best results = put a teen on drugs, then start lifting. Start kind of foundational. GH and Test day one. If diet is calorie heavy might start a little Lantus as well. Then as muscle keeps growing, and thus androgen receptors, both through extra muscle and through the test, you slowly keep upping the dose each time the athlete stalls. If the genetics allow, you could have a pro size fella in a couple of years. Years past everyone wasted at least half the year "cycling" which serves not much of a purpose. All the best bodybuilders started drugs very soon after entering the gym. No need to wear out the body lifting like a madman and "bulking" without drugs which only adds new fat cells.

You can’t be serious

[joswift]

You can’t be serious

every single top tier pro pretty much did exactly that

[Coach is Back!]

every single top tier pro pretty much did exactly that

Doesn’t matter what they did. It’s doesn’t mean to do it. You see a ton of these knucklehead kids on TikTok and other platforms mimicking what they THINK the big time pros are doing when I fact they’re only looking for problems. Test levels in healthy teens are already through the roof and you want add to with more exogenous test?

[MAXX]

didnt do him any harm did it?   

Maybe he should have started earlier and finished earlier

well he became to many the GOAT. And for many the sacrifice would be worth it

[joswift]

Doesn’t matter what they did. It’s doesn’t mean to do it. You see a ton of these knucklehead kids on TikTok and other platforms mimicking what they THINK the big time pros are doing when I fact they’re only looking for problems. Test levels in healthy teens are already through the roof and you want add to with more exogenous test?

But if you expect to be a successful pro then the argument is that its pretty much what succesful pros have always done

How many pros take two 10/12 week courses a year (off season and precontest)

[Van_Bilderass]

I would suggest staying natural for a few years, I made alot of progress naturally from 13-18 then tried pro hormones and clen, then anavar and t3 when 19 but didnt juice properly til my late twenties. I think getting young teens straight on all that gear is terrible the body has to develop naturally first and muscle laid down naturally will stick more. I would not encourage any teenager to become a pro bodybuilder I would suggest against it unless they are exceptional. Roiding heavily before age of 25 means more chance of permanent endocrine fuckery for life. And the mental health issues and hormonal disruption at that age can cause bad life choices and experiences, better to develop a calmer wiser mind.

Ok thanks. I definitely agree from a mental health standpoint. But otoh there's actually so little time. By waiting you are "wasting" your prime years of developing physically. Almost all the Golden Age or whatever bodybuilders, like Arnold, started as teens. Some like Lee Haney retired at an age some feel would be a good time to consider starting. I would argue, thatt if someone was able to stop after trying bodybuilding for a pretty limited time, doing the hard stuff early would be smartest, physically. Arnold was also able to step away, but many develop an identity as bodybuilders and are never able to stop. Unfortunately you can only assess retrospectively if you made the right decision. If someone was able to do just one, one year cycle at say 18 that might set them up with a lifetime of somewhat above average muscle mass. Then if they wanted to look extra muscled for a period of time they could revive the physique almost completely in 6-8 weeks, as it were.  IMHO

[Van_Bilderass]

I'm also not sure it's absolute best to start juicing in the teens.

The best example in the world of this would be Ronnie Coleman. He claims he started juicing right after 1991 but I'd say 1988, or 89, based on pictures from different years. That would still mean he started at age 24/25.

I don't know when he started, but I think he was a football player and you know how things were in the 80s... all I'm saying is that the young body seems to be more sensitive to anabolics. That's why I half-jokingly said I wished I had done some PEDs at 8. Some studies have show that some kids treated with say Anavar at that age didn't seem to suffer  long term sides. Some PEDs, even steroids, could actually increase adult height.

You can’t be serious

It's risky for sure. But done "right" (what right is can be debated) I think it could be advantageous. And like joswift and myself have said, bodybuilders have stayed on semi-permanently, and the numbers of champs starting as teens is too long to list, as you know. IMHO arguing that twst levels are already sky high as teens if a pretty poor argument for abstaining. Sensitivity to external hormones is also sky high

Do you feel you came to harm because you were prescribed at a very young age, do you regret it?