Dorian Yates puts Mike Israetel in his place

[Van_Bilderass]

He did stop bodybuilding but kept his site open to discussions. Smart guy but like many others isn't ready to accept new ideas.

My theory is quite simple. While training my arms 26 years ago I was trying to get them as big as possible. I applied severe tension on my biceps and triceps but they stopped growing no matter what I did. One evening I changed my triceps exercise to one recommended by Larry Scott. I have an engineering factory so made several triceps machines where one puts his elbows on a bench and does extensions that way. See the photo below to know what I am talking about. That exercise has the elbows adjacent to the ears so there is a lot of stretching involved. The apparatus has adjustable pads on each side to keep the elbows from moving sideways. Well, after a hard workout with this exercise I awoke the next day with severe DOMS in my triceps. Now, accept that I was training them really hard before the new exercise. How in the heck did they get sore? That wasn't important. What I embraced was the idea to try to keep them sore for many workouts because they grew from that one workout. I accept that part of the size enhancement was inflammation. Over the next month I did 10 workouts for arms and calves. Every 3rd day. I used this frequency because I set a world record in the pinch grip on a machine I designed and built and the only time I improved my lifts was training every third day. My record pinch grip with one hand is 92.5 kg or about 203 pounds. Training arms I was gaining 1/10 of an inch every workout. Doesn't sound like much but I was so pleased I couldn't wait to train arms and calves again. One exercise for biceps and one for triceps. For calves I did standing heel raises and ended up using 700 pounds for many sets. Did bouncing reps until they ached then walked in a circle twice and repeated the exercise for perhaps 10 sets. In the arm exercises I worked up to a maximum weight that I could do 15 reps with. Then I would keep the same heavy weight and do 4 or 5 more hard sets. I managed to sustain the DOMS for the month and ended up putting a full inch on my arms and calves. I had to stop training because I followed Larry Scott's recommendation and had my elbows on the pads. Unfortunately the heavy resistance damaged the sheath covering the elbow joint. Took a couple of months to repair the damage. My Achilles tendons were damaged from all those heavy ballistic bounces so I had to stop training my calves which was a disappointment. Now I know what not to do. Never put your elbows on pads when training biceps or triceps. Don't do ballistic calf raises. By the way, the idea behind trying to keep the DOMS occurring after every training session was simply to overcome the repeated bout effect. If you let the target muscles recover then you have to do something extraordinary the next time you train that body part.

I did a thought experiment about when humans lived in primitive times maybe a million or more years ago. I wondered what happened to a hunter who tried to kill an animal but failed and ended up exhausted and sore. Would he be able to hunt the next day with sore muscles? I assumed he had to if he wanted to survive. So we inherited a system where our bodies can perform even when our minds are telling us to rest.

Most Getbiggers couldn't see what my ideas were all about and wanted specific exercise, sets and reps. Train using exercises that cause DOMS and repeat every 3rd day. Warm up with lighter resistances until you can't do more than 15 reps. Keep using that maximum resistance for another 5 sets. Target one or two body parts each time you train this way as doing more body parts might end up shutting you down with too much waste products in your system.

I had to modify both the Nautilus arm machines so that the elbows were beyond the pads to avoid injuring them. It was a simple matter to move the pad 2 inches closer to the user so that the elbows were beyond the pads when exercising. I removed the back pad from the seated triceps machine and put the longer pad for a knee rest. I then built a foot rest so that the user could keep his body straight to allow maximum effort to be employed.

I did a variation of your DOMS workouts for arms for like 8 months this year, I ended up doing 2-3 workout per week for both biceps and triceps. Incidentally I had a curl machine where the elbows were outside the pads, and my main exercise for tris was a bent over extensions. I did them on a cable cross, there was a bar on the side of the cable and I put a folded yoga matt behind my ass and used that bar as leverage. Getting in the position was a bit of a hassle. I didn't really gain anything, seemed to get veinier and strength went up quite a bit. I now think more frequent training isn't more beneficial compared to say every 5-7 days. I think a gain in strength is the main metric to keep track of progress other than measuring body parts. Sometimes my combined bi and tri sessions took 90 minutes, now I'll see if 2-3 sets for a muscle once a week is a better approach, the Dorian approach which I always suspected was as good as it gets. Though at 48 my approximate max was probably achieved 20 years ago.

[Skeletor]

He did stop bodybuilding but kept his site open to discussions. Smart guy but like many others isn't ready to accept new ideas.

My theory is quite simple. While training my arms 26 years ago I was trying to get them as big as possible. I applied severe tension on my biceps and triceps but they stopped growing no matter what I did. One evening I changed my triceps exercise to one recommended by Larry Scott. I have an engineering factory so made several triceps machines where one puts his elbows on a bench and does extensions that way. See the photo below to know what I am talking about. That exercise has the elbows adjacent to the ears so there is a lot of stretching involved. The apparatus has adjustable pads on each side to keep the elbows from moving sideways. Well, after a hard workout with this exercise I awoke the next day with severe DOMS in my triceps. Now, accept that I was training them really hard before the new exercise. How in the heck did they get sore? That wasn't important. What I embraced was the idea to try to keep them sore for many workouts because they grew from that one workout. I accept that part of the size enhancement was inflammation. Over the next month I did 10 workouts for arms and calves. Every 3rd day. I used this frequency because I set a world record in the pinch grip on a machine I designed and built and the only time I improved my lifts was training every third day. My record pinch grip with one hand is 92.5 kg or about 203 pounds. Training arms I was gaining 1/10 of an inch every workout. Doesn't sound like much but I was so pleased I couldn't wait to train arms and calves again. One exercise for biceps and one for triceps. For calves I did standing heel raises and ended up using 700 pounds for many sets. Did bouncing reps until they ached then walked in a circle twice and repeated the exercise for perhaps 10 sets. In the arm exercises I worked up to a maximum weight that I could do 15 reps with. Then I would keep the same heavy weight and do 4 or 5 more hard sets. I managed to sustain the DOMS for the month and ended up putting a full inch on my arms and calves. I had to stop training because I followed Larry Scott's recommendation and had my elbows on the pads. Unfortunately the heavy resistance damaged the sheath covering the elbow joint. Took a couple of months to repair the damage. My Achilles tendons were damaged from all those heavy ballistic bounces so I had to stop training my calves which was a disappointment. Now I know what not to do. Never put your elbows on pads when training biceps or triceps. Don't do ballistic calf raises. By the way, the idea behind trying to keep the DOMS occurring after every training session was simply to overcome the repeated bout effect. If you let the target muscles recover then you have to do something extraordinary the next time you train that body part.

I did a thought experiment about when humans lived in primitive times maybe a million or more years ago. I wondered what happened to a hunter who tried to kill an animal but failed and ended up exhausted and sore. Would he be able to hunt the next day with sore muscles? I assumed he had to if he wanted to survive. So we inherited a system where our bodies can perform even when our minds are telling us to rest.

Most Getbiggers couldn't see what my ideas were all about and wanted specific exercise, sets and reps. Train using exercises that cause DOMS and repeat every 3rd day. Warm up with lighter resistances until you can't do more than 15 reps. Keep using that maximum resistance for another 5 sets. Target one or two body parts each time you train this way as doing more body parts might end up shutting you down with too much waste products in your system.

I had to modify both the Nautilus arm machines so that the elbows were beyond the pads to avoid injuring them. It was a simple matter to move the pad 2 inches closer to the user so that the elbows were beyond the pads when exercising. I removed the back pad from the seated triceps machine and put the longer pad for a knee rest. I then built a foot rest so that the user could keep his body straight to allow maximum effort to be employed.

Ask Wes.

[falco]

Mike was Powerlifting USA magazine's nutrition guy for a while. After they folded, he jumped over to Chad Wesley Smith's Juggernaut Training Systems. He handled nutrition for them, especially when they were trying to get into the MMA market.

Juggernaut and him split up, and he becomes the face of Nick Smith's Renaissance Periodization more actively. There he finds big success. Not sure what the split is like, but he must get a piece of the youtube, books, and personal training profits. It's grown into a pretty big company that way.

Mike back in the day -

.

He has that Tay-tay vibe into him. Like what he says is gospel and the absolute truth.

He also takes the shaft like T-bombz.

[SF1900]

He did stop bodybuilding but kept his site open to discussions. Smart guy but like many others isn't ready to accept new ideas.

My theory is quite simple. While training my arms 26 years ago I was trying to get them as big as possible. I applied severe tension on my biceps and triceps but they stopped growing no matter what I did. One evening I changed my triceps exercise to one recommended by Larry Scott. I have an engineering factory so made several triceps machines where one puts his elbows on a bench and does extensions that way. See the photo below to know what I am talking about. That exercise has the elbows adjacent to the ears so there is a lot of stretching involved. The apparatus has adjustable pads on each side to keep the elbows from moving sideways. Well, after a hard workout with this exercise I awoke the next day with severe DOMS in my triceps. Now, accept that I was training them really hard before the new exercise. How in the heck did they get sore? That wasn't important. What I embraced was the idea to try to keep them sore for many workouts because they grew from that one workout. I accept that part of the size enhancement was inflammation. Over the next month I did 10 workouts for arms and calves. Every 3rd day. I used this frequency because I set a world record in the pinch grip on a machine I designed and built and the only time I improved my lifts was training every third day. My record pinch grip with one hand is 92.5 kg or about 203 pounds. Training arms I was gaining 1/10 of an inch every workout. Doesn't sound like much but I was so pleased I couldn't wait to train arms and calves again. One exercise for biceps and one for triceps. For calves I did standing heel raises and ended up using 700 pounds for many sets. Did bouncing reps until they ached then walked in a circle twice and repeated the exercise for perhaps 10 sets. In the arm exercises I worked up to a maximum weight that I could do 15 reps with. Then I would keep the same heavy weight and do 4 or 5 more hard sets. I managed to sustain the DOMS for the month and ended up putting a full inch on my arms and calves. I had to stop training because I followed Larry Scott's recommendation and had my elbows on the pads. Unfortunately the heavy resistance damaged the sheath covering the elbow joint. Took a couple of months to repair the damage. My Achilles tendons were damaged from all those heavy ballistic bounces so I had to stop training my calves which was a disappointment. Now I know what not to do. Never put your elbows on pads when training biceps or triceps. Don't do ballistic calf raises. By the way, the idea behind trying to keep the DOMS occurring after every training session was simply to overcome the repeated bout effect. If you let the target muscles recover then you have to do something extraordinary the next time you train that body part.

I did a thought experiment about when humans lived in primitive times maybe a million or more years ago. I wondered what happened to a hunter who tried to kill an animal but failed and ended up exhausted and sore. Would he be able to hunt the next day with sore muscles? I assumed he had to if he wanted to survive. So we inherited a system where our bodies can perform even when our minds are telling us to rest.

Most Getbiggers couldn't see what my ideas were all about and wanted specific exercise, sets and reps. Train using exercises that cause DOMS and repeat every 3rd day. Warm up with lighter resistances until you can't do more than 15 reps. Keep using that maximum resistance for another 5 sets. Target one or two body parts each time you train this way as doing more body parts might end up shutting you down with too much waste products in your system.

I had to modify both the Nautilus arm machines so that the elbows were beyond the pads to avoid injuring them. It was a simple matter to move the pad 2 inches closer to the user so that the elbows were beyond the pads when exercising. I removed the back pad from the seated triceps machine and put the longer pad for a knee rest. I then built a foot rest so that the user could keep his body straight to allow maximum effort to be employed.

So, you set a world record on a machine that you designed and won a bodybuilding show where you picked the judges.

Do you have any accomplishments that are not purposefully modified by you?

[38 returns]

He did stop bodybuilding but kept his site open to discussions. Smart guy but like many others isn't ready to accept new ideas.

My theory is quite simple. While training my arms 26 years ago I was trying to get them as big as possible. I applied severe tension on my biceps and triceps but they stopped growing no matter what I did. One evening I changed my triceps exercise to one recommended by Larry Scott. I have an engineering factory so made several triceps machines where one puts his elbows on a bench and does extensions that way. See the photo below to know what I am talking about. That exercise has the elbows adjacent to the ears so there is a lot of stretching involved. The apparatus has adjustable pads on each side to keep the elbows from moving sideways. Well, after a hard workout with this exercise I awoke the next day with severe DOMS in my triceps. Now, accept that I was training them really hard before the new exercise. How in the heck did they get sore? That wasn't important. What I embraced was the idea to try to keep them sore for many workouts because they grew from that one workout. I accept that part of the size enhancement was inflammation. Over the next month I did 10 workouts for arms and calves. Every 3rd day. I used this frequency because I set a world record in the pinch grip on a machine I designed and built and the only time I improved my lifts was training every third day. My record pinch grip with one hand is 92.5 kg or about 203 pounds. Training arms I was gaining 1/10 of an inch every workout. Doesn't sound like much but I was so pleased I couldn't wait to train arms and calves again. One exercise for biceps and one for triceps. For calves I did standing heel raises and ended up using 700 pounds for many sets. Did bouncing reps until they ached then walked in a circle twice and repeated the exercise for perhaps 10 sets. In the arm exercises I worked up to a maximum weight that I could do 15 reps with. Then I would keep the same heavy weight and do 4 or 5 more hard sets. I managed to sustain the DOMS for the month and ended up putting a full inch on my arms and calves. I had to stop training because I followed Larry Scott's recommendation and had my elbows on the pads. Unfortunately the heavy resistance damaged the sheath covering the elbow joint. Took a couple of months to repair the damage. My Achilles tendons were damaged from all those heavy ballistic bounces so I had to stop training my calves which was a disappointment. Now I know what not to do. Never put your elbows on pads when training biceps or triceps. Don't do ballistic calf raises. By the way, the idea behind trying to keep the DOMS occurring after every training session was simply to overcome the repeated bout effect. If you let the target muscles recover then you have to do something extraordinary the next time you train that body part.

I did a thought experiment about when humans lived in primitive times maybe a million or more years ago. I wondered what happened to a hunter who tried to kill an animal but failed and ended up exhausted and sore. Would he be able to hunt the next day with sore muscles? I assumed he had to if he wanted to survive. So we inherited a system where our bodies can perform even when our minds are telling us to rest.

Most Getbiggers couldn't see what my ideas were all about and wanted specific exercise, sets and reps. Train using exercises that cause DOMS and repeat every 3rd day. Warm up with lighter resistances until you can't do more than 15 reps. Keep using that maximum resistance for another 5 sets. Target one or two body parts each time you train this way as doing more body parts might end up shutting you down with too much waste products in your system.

I had to modify both the Nautilus arm machines so that the elbows were beyond the pads to avoid injuring them. It was a simple matter to move the pad 2 inches closer to the user so that the elbows were beyond the pads when exercising. I removed the back pad from the seated triceps machine and put the longer pad for a knee rest. I then built a foot rest so that the user could keep his body straight to allow maximum effort to be employed.

talk me through this absolute bro science horseshit

[ProudVirgin69]

Mike likes the extra deep reps simply because his body is able to sit down into a squat like that. Most people trying the same end up compensating and putting something into an injurious position. Sometimes the overcompensation isn't even perceptible but the lifter can feel it didn't feel right, for example a tiny rounding of the back. I'm sure working in the lengthened position appears more productive but then you see huge bastards who never do any full reps.

I think it’s counterproductive.  At the extremes of the rom the tension falls from the muscles onto the joints.  Think of locking out on a bench press or a squat.  It’s much more challenging to stay within the middle 80-90% of ROM and keep the tension on the muscles.

[Griffith]

I think it’s counterproductive.  At the extremes of the rom the tension falls from the muscles onto the joints.  Think of locking out on a bench press or a squat.  It’s much more challenging to stay within the middle 80-90% of ROM and keep the tension on the muscles.

Exactly, and a dangerous range for injuries.

[Donny]

Deep squatting actually increases the contact area of the undersurface of the patella (kneecap) with the femur, spreading out the forces better than shallow squatting. This is good because it reduces the stress placed on any one area of cartilage on the undersurface of the patella.

https://www.girlsgonestrong.com/blog/articles/ask-ann-do-deep-squats-cause-knee-pain/

I remember a discussion on here years ago & this was on a study i posted.

[NaturalWonder83]

This is the best comment in this thread. I used to post on Lyle McDonald's site 25 or so years ago. I posted my theory of hypertrophy there but he refused to have a debate with me so I stopped posting there. I don't consider him an authority on hypertrophy. He got worse results than Dr Mike and ended up doing bike riding competitively.

I consider Dr Mike Israetel a world authority on hypertrophy. He knows the literature and posts clearly about training and the science behind it. I accept that his PhD thesis is under par but so what he knows his stuff. Dr Brad Schoenfeld is an accepted authority on hypertrophy but I don't consider that he is. Yes, he knows the literature but hasn't a clue about getting bigger himself or what the huge bodybuilders are doing because they haven't been studied. Dr Mike has a decent physique but like most bodybuilders considers himself better than he actually is. I hope he gets an authentic PhD from a top university in exercise science and get on with his site.

Fuck your dumb considerations and fuck your dumb light blue font.

You think he’s a world authority? Of course YOU do! Oh yeah! He’s such a world authority that he looks like a 70 year old obese Serbian truck driver hobbit. And it’s so amazing how your world authority has never won a show and looked like fat garbage in every show he entered!

What may I ask do you consider his most noteworthy contributions to fitness and exercise science?? Hmmmmmm?

Would it be his recommendation to skip hammer curls? Or never do front squats? Or use barbell rows as a tricep exercise? Oh, I know! Must be his groundbreaking cable fly press move!

It’s people like you who are to blame for encouraging him. His PHD was garbage and worthless. It concluded nothing and did not contribute to anything. Looked like a High Schooler wrote it. He based his whole brand and formed his whole empire on the weight and distinction of his PHD. He built his whole brand off it. He even stated his PhD carries major weight. And he even released PHd approved protein shots and marketed his training app as PHD created. But when his PHD’s credibility was exposed…and he committed academic fraud to cover it up…suddenly his felt his PHD credibility was not important and he stated credentials mean nothing.

Vince, your obese hero is so amazing. I mean, what’s not to admire about him?! He’s a failed bodybuilder, walks around with a GH gut, used plastic surgery to change his body instead of dieting, showed he was a scat deviant by discussing being human toilet paper in a video with Johnny Shrieve, stated he wanted to kill small animals and physically harm Lyle M. and Greg D., and discussed being racist on camera and that he believes certain races are more intelligent.

[falco]

Deep squatting actually increases the contact area of the undersurface of the patella (kneecap) with the femur, spreading out the forces better than shallow squatting. This is good because it reduces the stress placed on any one area of cartilage on the undersurface of the patella.

https://www.girlsgonestrong.com/blog/articles/ask-ann-do-deep-squats-cause-knee-pain/

I remember a discussion on here years ago & this was on a study i posted.

I have short femurs, hence i find it easy to deep squat, olympic weightlifting style. Still, as i am getting older, my knees are no longer very happy about deep squatting.

[IroNat]

He did stop bodybuilding but kept his site open to discussions. Smart guy but like many others isn't ready to accept new ideas.

My theory is quite simple. While training my arms 26 years ago I was trying to get them as big as possible. I applied severe tension on my biceps and triceps but they stopped growing no matter what I did. One evening I changed my triceps exercise to one recommended by Larry Scott. I have an engineering factory so made several triceps machines where one puts his elbows on a bench and does extensions that way. See the photo below to know what I am talking about. That exercise has the elbows adjacent to the ears so there is a lot of stretching involved. The apparatus has adjustable pads on each side to keep the elbows from moving sideways. Well, after a hard workout with this exercise I awoke the next day with severe DOMS in my triceps. Now, accept that I was training them really hard before the new exercise. How in the heck did they get sore? That wasn't important. What I embraced was the idea to try to keep them sore for many workouts because they grew from that one workout. I accept that part of the size enhancement was inflammation. Over the next month I did 10 workouts for arms and calves. Every 3rd day. I used this frequency because I set a world record in the pinch grip on a machine I designed and built and the only time I improved my lifts was training every third day. My record pinch grip with one hand is 92.5 kg or about 203 pounds. Training arms I was gaining 1/10 of an inch every workout. Doesn't sound like much but I was so pleased I couldn't wait to train arms and calves again. One exercise for biceps and one for triceps. For calves I did standing heel raises and ended up using 700 pounds for many sets. Did bouncing reps until they ached then walked in a circle twice and repeated the exercise for perhaps 10 sets. In the arm exercises I worked up to a maximum weight that I could do 15 reps with. Then I would keep the same heavy weight and do 4 or 5 more hard sets. I managed to sustain the DOMS for the month and ended up putting a full inch on my arms and calves. I had to stop training because I followed Larry Scott's recommendation and had my elbows on the pads. Unfortunately the heavy resistance damaged the sheath covering the elbow joint. Took a couple of months to repair the damage. My Achilles tendons were damaged from all those heavy ballistic bounces so I had to stop training my calves which was a disappointment. Now I know what not to do. Never put your elbows on pads when training biceps or triceps. Don't do ballistic calf raises. By the way, the idea behind trying to keep the DOMS occurring after every training session was simply to overcome the repeated bout effect. If you let the target muscles recover then you have to do something extraordinary the next time you train that body part.

I did a thought experiment about when humans lived in primitive times maybe a million or more years ago. I wondered what happened to a hunter who tried to kill an animal but failed and ended up exhausted and sore. Would he be able to hunt the next day with sore muscles? I assumed he had to if he wanted to survive. So we inherited a system where our bodies can perform even when our minds are telling us to rest.

Most Getbiggers couldn't see what my ideas were all about and wanted specific exercise, sets and reps. Train using exercises that cause DOMS and repeat every 3rd day. Warm up with lighter resistances until you can't do more than 15 reps. Keep using that maximum resistance for another 5 sets. Target one or two body parts each time you train this way as doing more body parts might end up shutting you down with too much waste products in your system.

I had to modify both the Nautilus arm machines so that the elbows were beyond the pads to avoid injuring them. It was a simple matter to move the pad 2 inches closer to the user so that the elbows were beyond the pads when exercising. I removed the back pad from the seated triceps machine and put the longer pad for a knee rest. I then built a foot rest so that the user could keep his body straight to allow maximum effort to be employed.

Thanks for the detailed explanation, Vince.

[IroNat]

So, you set a world record on a machine that you designed and won a bodybuilding show where you picked the judges.

Do you have any accomplishments that are not purposefully modified by you?

SF, I'm shocked at your tone.

[Grape Ape]

Fuck your dumb considerations and fuck your dumb light blue font.

It's actually navy blue.

This might change your opinion.

[wes]

Ask Wes.

[SF1900]

SF, I'm shocked at your tone.

Why?

[Kwon]

SF, I'm shocked at your tone.

Rory at the keyboard probably.

[IroNat]

Why?

So harsh, brutal and devoid of sensitivity to Vince's feelings.

[Lartinos]

He has that Tay-tay vibe into him. Like what he says is gospel and the absolute truth.

He also takes the shaft like T-bombz.

He should have seen Bhanky’s hair doc before it was too late.

[Van_Bilderass]

I think it’s counterproductive.  At the extremes of the rom the tension falls from the muscles onto the joints.  Think of locking out on a bench press or a squat.  It’s much more challenging to stay within the middle 80-90% of ROM and keep the tension on the muscles.

In the bench press for example, you get the pec tears due to the angle of the elbow and the extreme stretch. Mike advocates using this specialty bar to go even deeper. In the squat he's like Tom Platz and can sit down very deep and squat like an elevator with an upright back. That's not most people especially taller ones. Since I've trained with powerlifters I can barely get to 90 degrees no matter the load. I guess I could force it but the back would round a little, hips would hurt and so on. I know many have tried extra deep angled leg presses but can feel that butt coming off, even a cm could be injurious.

If anyone might be interested, here's Solomon's response to his most high profile critics, Mike and Layne Norton. Layne has put out a lot of good info for sure but he came out against Solomon with this snotty ad hominem reply, like he didn't know of the issues and it's just a "closing of ranks," their little circle jerk. He then deleted his comment but someone had screenshotted it LOL. I don't know if Schoenfeld came to Mike's defense but he had advocated absolute shit, like some study where the participants supposedly did like 30 sets of squats to failure wit a minutes rest between sets, which is obviously impossible to do. He's part of the circle jerk. And now with this debacle Mike says asinine things like "credentials do not really mean anything." As if he didn't build his business around his PhD and start every video with "Hi this is Dr Mike." Regarding Lyle, if someone is interested in his views you can read his articles on his site and then tell me he's stupid. All his detractors say Lyle is a very smart man but he's a meanie but in my opinion his attacks have focused on substance, real issues with their theories and interpretations.

Mike tried  humble approach but now he's questioning if Salomon reading his thesis might be illegal or at leas unethical LOL. He also says his thesis was only a third of the paper and was dumbed down for other coaches LOL.

I couldn't immediately find the short clip for this but if you go to 3:28 or so you can watch Brad Schoenfeld train to failure, "this is my failure"

=223

[NaturalWonder83]

In the bench press for example, you get the pec tears due to the angle of the elbow and the extreme stretch. Mike advocates using this specialty bar to go even deeper. In the squat he's like Tom Platz and can sit down very deep and squat like an elevator with an upright back. That's not most people especially taller ones. Since I've trained with powerlifters I can barely get to 90 degrees no matter the load. I guess I could force it but the back would round a little, hips would hurt and so on. I know many have tried extra deep angled leg presses but can feel that butt coming off, even a cm could be injurious.

If anyone might be interested, here's Solomon's response to his most high profile critics, Mike and Layne Norton. Layne has put out a lot of good info for sure but he came out against Solomon with this snotty ad hominem reply, like he didn't know of the issues and it's just a "closing of ranks," their little circle jerk. He then deleted his comment but someone had screenshotted it LOL. I don't know if Schoenfeld came to Mike's defense but he had advocated absolute shit, like some study where the participants supposedly did like 30 sets of squats to failure wit a minutes rest between sets, which is obviously impossible to do. He's part of the circle jerk. And now with this debacle Mike says asinine things like "credentials do not really mean anything." As if he didn't build his business around his PhD and start every video with "Hi this is Dr Mike." Regarding Lyle, if someone is interested in his views you can read his articles on his site and then tell me he's stupid. All his detractors say Lyle is a very smart man but he's a meanie but in my opinion his attacks have focused on substance, real issues with their theories and interpretations.

Mike tried  humble approach but now he's questioning if Salomon reading his thesis might be illegal or at leas unethical LOL. He also says his thesis was only a third of the paper and was dumbed down for other coaches LOL.

I couldn't immediately find the short clip for this but if you go to 3:28 or so you can watch Brad Schoenfeld train to failure, "this is my failure"

=223

All Solomon did was review the facts of Mike’s PhD dissertation. He reviewed data, words, grammar, etc.
He then clearly showed how Mike attempted to cover up his mistakes with possible academic fraud. He even showed how Mike lied to cover up his lies. It was easy to see because moron screwed that up. He doesn’t seem very intelligent despite his high iq he claims. He claims same iq as Einstein.

The PHD thesis was a disaster and concluded nothing noteworthy or valuable. It’s trash that should have never passed. Make the university seem like a PHD mill where anyone can get a PhD with minimal effort.

Mike tries to make the point that because Solomon doesn’t have a PHD, then he has no authority to review his public document. Nope. Now how that works. It can be compared to restaurant critics don’t need to be chefs and movie critics don’t need to be actors or directors.

Mike created his brand around his PHD. He released PHD approved protein shots. His commercial for his training app mentions PHD backed training. He even stated having a PHD carries weight and importance. His public image was a genius sports trainer. Now that his PHD was exposed and found to be shit, he says credentials don’t matter. You can’t have it both ways Mike. You can’t say your PHD is distinguished when it makes you money and suddenly say it doesn’t matter when it’s exposed to be trash.

[Van_Bilderass]

Mike created his brand around his PHD. He released PHD approved protein shots. His commercial for his training app mentions PHD backed training. He even stated having a PHD carries weight and importance. His public image was a genius sports trainer. Now that his PHD was exposed and found to be shit, he says credentials don’t matter. You can’t have it both ways Mike. You can’t say your PHD is distinguished when it makes you money and suddenly say it doesn’t matter when it’s exposed to be trash.

Mike is in serious damage control mode, Solomon says he's deleted like 2K comments on some of his his videos. I wonder how much he's made, they are talking multi-millions.

[snx]

The good news for Israetel; social media has a memory like a goldfish and the algorithm simply rewards views. He has the chance to come back. Many of his viewers are young to the lifting game and simply don’t care about the morass of this professional scandal. This scandal, legitimate as it is, isnt all that interesting to the mouth breathing masses. At least over the long term if israetel stays at it and plugs away with content that works.

From a PR and perhaps ultimately a tangible shareholder value perspective, the real loser is Renaissance Periodization. Their platform is built on trust, academia, authoritative perspectives and scientific rigor. The cult of personality that is “Dr Mike” will survive. The brand that is RP will suffer irreperable harm to their reputation (as a result of their very clear association with israetel) leading to coaches leaving the platform (they are the worker bees and reputational leaders with the company’s consumers). Word will spread, the brand will be a pariah, and reputational leaders in the industry not willing to besmirch their name will flee. Eventually it’ll be quite unfashionable to be seen with RP. And that will be their end.

Too bad. Their product was decent. They just fell prey to what many brands before them have fallen prey to; knowing you’ve hitched your wagon to a flawed brand candidate and hoping for the best and never planning for the worst.

[Dave D]

He did stop bodybuilding but kept his site open to discussions. Smart guy but like many others isn't ready to accept new ideas.

My theory is quite simple. While training my arms 26 years ago I was trying to get them as big as possible. I applied severe tension on my biceps and triceps but they stopped growing no matter what I did. One evening I changed my triceps exercise to one recommended by Larry Scott. I have an engineering factory so made several triceps machines where one puts his elbows on a bench and does extensions that way. See the photo below to know what I am talking about. That exercise has the elbows adjacent to the ears so there is a lot of stretching involved. The apparatus has adjustable pads on each side to keep the elbows from moving sideways. Well, after a hard workout with this exercise I awoke the next day with severe DOMS in my triceps. Now, accept that I was training them really hard before the new exercise. How in the heck did they get sore? That wasn't important. What I embraced was the idea to try to keep them sore for many workouts because they grew from that one workout. I accept that part of the size enhancement was inflammation. Over the next month I did 10 workouts for arms and calves. Every 3rd day. I used this frequency because I set a world record in the pinch grip on a machine I designed and built and the only time I improved my lifts was training every third day. My record pinch grip with one hand is 92.5 kg or about 203 pounds. Training arms I was gaining 1/10 of an inch every workout. Doesn't sound like much but I was so pleased I couldn't wait to train arms and calves again. One exercise for biceps and one for triceps. For calves I did standing heel raises and ended up using 700 pounds for many sets. Did bouncing reps until they ached then walked in a circle twice and repeated the exercise for perhaps 10 sets. In the arm exercises I worked up to a maximum weight that I could do 15 reps with. Then I would keep the same heavy weight and do 4 or 5 more hard sets. I managed to sustain the DOMS for the month and ended up putting a full inch on my arms and calves. I had to stop training because I followed Larry Scott's recommendation and had my elbows on the pads. Unfortunately the heavy resistance damaged the sheath covering the elbow joint. Took a couple of months to repair the damage. My Achilles tendons were damaged from all those heavy ballistic bounces so I had to stop training my calves which was a disappointment. Now I know what not to do. Never put your elbows on pads when training biceps or triceps. Don't do ballistic calf raises. By the way, the idea behind trying to keep the DOMS occurring after every training session was simply to overcome the repeated bout effect. If you let the target muscles recover then you have to do something extraordinary the next time you train that body part.

I did a thought experiment about when humans lived in primitive times maybe a million or more years ago. I wondered what happened to a hunter who tried to kill an animal but failed and ended up exhausted and sore. Would he be able to hunt the next day with sore muscles? I assumed he had to if he wanted to survive. So we inherited a system where our bodies can perform even when our minds are telling us to rest.

Most Getbiggers couldn't see what my ideas were all about and wanted specific exercise, sets and reps. Train using exercises that cause DOMS and repeat every 3rd day. Warm up with lighter resistances until you can't do more than 15 reps. Keep using that maximum resistance for another 5 sets. Target one or two body parts each time you train this way as doing more body parts might end up shutting you down with too much waste products in your system.

I had to modify both the Nautilus arm machines so that the elbows were beyond the pads to avoid injuring them. It was a simple matter to move the pad 2 inches closer to the user so that the elbows were beyond the pads when exercising. I removed the back pad from the seated triceps machine and put the longer pad for a knee rest. I then built a foot rest so that the user could keep his body straight to allow maximum effort to be employed.

So there’s a lot of information here that doesn’t address Vans question but you spent the whole first paragraph talking about a very specific tricep machine you developed the you say and “Getbig can’t see what my ideas were about, wanting specific exercises, sets and reps”…. So you talk about inventing a tricep machine then insult the community because they only care about what exercises to use.

Your theory is :

Train using exercises that cause DOMS and repeat every 3rd day. Warm up with lighter resistances until you can't do more than 15 reps. Keep using that maximum resistance for another 5 sets. Target one or two body parts each time you train this way as doing more body parts might end up shutting you down with too much waste products in your system.

What makes this a groundbreaking theory ?

[BB]

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Ha. The Israetel cries out while he strikes you.

Mike is the definition of a smart dumb guy. He's too smug to just wait this out without commenting. And Lyle, and Solomon by extension, are pitbulls with stuff like this. They've hobbled his entire "Dr" schtick, and are spinning him around in circles about it.

Also lol at Layne getting shoe'd in the ass spectacularly hard at 35 minutes in .





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[NaturalWonder83]

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Ha. The Israetel cries out while he strikes you.

Mike is the definition of a smart dumb guy. He's too smug to just wait this out without commenting. And Lyle, and Solomon by extension, are pitbulls with stuff like this. They've hobbled his entire "Dr" schtick, and are spinning him around in circles about it.

Also lol at Layne getting shoe'd in the ass spectacularly hard at 35 minutes in .





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All Mike had to do was admit his dissertation was not up to his current standards. But since he wrote it, he’s learned more and really progressed his career with all he’s learned since being out of uni. And everything would have been fine. He could have put his ego aside, accepted Solomon’s criticisms, and offered to correct his paper.
Instead, he lied and said he accidentally uploaded a wrong draft…then tried to commit academic fraud and cover up his crap work by trying to replace it with a newer version…but he and his team messed up the scheme got caught.