What causes pectoral tears?

[JK]

I've been analyzing this for a long time and still can't reach a clear conclusion. On the one hand, we have lifters with perfect, slow lowering technique, like Scot Medelson, who tore his pecs while attempting 650 lbs RAW, and on the other, we have bench pressers like Joseph Tumbarello (check out his new Instagram video 600 X 7 RAW), who has had terrible technique for years, throwing and bouncing over 700 lbs from his chest without injury. Julius Maddox has benched over 700 lbs raw more times than any other person and has also never torn his pecs. I used to think that a close grip was a guarantee against pec tears, until about two years ago, a powerlifting friend of mine tore his pecs while attempting a 550 lbs RAW close grip bench press! Interestingly, he had previously only benched with a wide grip and hadn't injured his pecs at the time, but he decided to switch to a close grip due to shoulder pain. Of course, the shoulder pain subsided, and he slowly built up his close grip strength until something he never expected happened during a competition! There are also excellent Japanese bench pressers, such as Daiki Kodama, who only bench press with their elbows out as wide as possible and never suffer shoulder injuries, let alone pec tears, and their careers last for years. What are your thoughts on this?

[NaturalWonder83]

I've been analyzing this for a long time and still can't reach a clear conclusion. On the one hand, we have lifters with perfect, slow lowering technique, like Scot Medelson, who tore his pecs while attempting 650 lbs RAW, and on the other, we have bench pressers like Joseph Tumbarello (check out his new Instagram video 600 X 7 RAW), who has had terrible technique for years, throwing and bouncing over 700 lbs from his chest without injury. Julius Maddox has benched over 700 lbs raw more times than any other person and has also never torn his pecs. I used to think that a close grip was a guarantee against pec tears, until about two years ago, a powerlifting friend of mine tore his pecs while attempting a 550 lbs RAW close grip bench press! Interestingly, he had previously only benched with a wide grip and hadn't injured his pecs at the time, but he decided to switch to a close grip due to shoulder pain. Of course, the shoulder pain subsided, and he slowly built up his close grip strength until something he never expected happened during a competition! There are also excellent Japanese bench pressers, such as Daiki Kodama, who only bench press with their elbows out as wide as possible and never suffer shoulder injuries, let alone pec tears, and their careers last for years. What are your thoughts on this?

I feel it's consistent wear and tear from compensation patterns that accumulates over a long period of time and eventually becomes too much for the body to handle. Or just wear and tear with good mechanics, but the body just can't handle it anymore. This may cause the injury. At the same time, you could have someone who also compensates with a faulty movement pattern their whole career and never gets injured due to their elite genetics.

[Donny]

Parallel Bar Dips .. Incline Bench press (medium grip elbows tucked)
no need for wide grip flat presses

[SweetDaddySiki]

Parallel Bar Dips .. Incline Bench press (medium grip elbows tucked)
no need for wide grip flat presses

True! Back in the 90's this guy beside me was doing wide flat presses and tore his pec. What I remember most was how it bruised so quickly. Sounded like a wet rag being torn.

[mops]

The longer the forearm, the further your humerus needs to drop - pec will get stretched more

Same idea with chest thickness; a thicker ribcage limits your range of motion, so the pec doesn’t stretch as much.

[JK]

The longer the forearm, the further your humerus needs to drop - pec will get stretched more

Same idea with chest thickness; a thicker ribcage limits your range of motion, so the pec doesn’t stretch as much.

So it would follow that a wide grip is safer than a narrow one because the humerus will be less stretched?

[mops]

So it would follow that a wide grip is safer than a narrow one because the humerus will be less stretched?

Solely depends on your structure. Large shoulders with long arms and a flat ribcage: not a good plan.

There are many factors (as you would expect)

- Arm angle in the bench press
- The degree of scapular retraction
- Shoulder width (and a flat ribcage): The wider the clavicles, the harder it is to keep the chest expanded. As the weight gets heavier, the chest tends to flatten out more, which increases the bar path. Ribcage and shoulder stability is also compromised because it’s harder to keep the shoulder blades properly retracted. This also leads to reduced pec activation.
- Narrow bench pads AND clavicle length: the wider your shoulders, the more they extend beyond the sides of the bench = bigger stretch at the bottom of the press.
- Anecdotal but interesting point : sudden joint instability (less joint congruence) due to hormonal shifts affecting relaxin. Relaxin is a peptide hormone that’s part of the IGF family. For a long time, doctors mostly studied it in women because it was thought to be a “female hormone."
But newer research shows that male athletes produce about the same amount of relaxin as female athletes do.
Relaxin receptors are found in ligaments in both men and women. How responsive these ligaments are to relaxin depends on estrogen. (btw, a sudden spike in estrogen could explain why some athletes temporarily experience a unexplained drop in strength due looser joints).

Imo, a good quick test to figure out which form is best suited for you is the floor press

Simple example: Here's Centopani doing floor presses with Poundstone. Notice the anatomical differences between them.






start at 6:00

[unwieldy]

I never tore any muscles luckily. I think exercise selection and being generally careful goes a long way, but ultimately I think one day every muscle is destined to tear. Quitting while you are ahead is key

[Irongrip400]

Genetics/luck of the draw.

[Brenda Steunbeer]

I've been analyzing this for a long time and still can't reach a clear conclusion. On the one hand, we have lifters with perfect, slow lowering technique, like Scot Medelson, who tore his pecs while attempting 650 lbs RAW, and on the other, we have bench pressers like Joseph Tumbarello (check out his new Instagram video 600 X 7 RAW), who has had terrible technique for years, throwing and bouncing over 700 lbs from his chest without injury. Julius Maddox has benched over 700 lbs raw more times than any other person and has also never torn his pecs. I used to think that a close grip was a guarantee against pec tears, until about two years ago, a powerlifting friend of mine tore his pecs while attempting a 550 lbs RAW close grip bench press! Interestingly, he had previously only benched with a wide grip and hadn't injured his pecs at the time, but he decided to switch to a close grip due to shoulder pain. Of course, the shoulder pain subsided, and he slowly built up his close grip strength until something he never expected happened during a competition! There are also excellent Japanese bench pressers, such as Daiki Kodama, who only bench press with their elbows out as wide as possible and never suffer shoulder injuries, let alone pec tears, and their careers last for years. What are your thoughts on this?

Just a wild guess but perhaps benching 550 lbs (249 kg) or even more might have something to do with muscles tearing off   

[joswift]

my pecs dont even engage for 90% of a bench press, the tension drops off about 3 inches off my chest

Waste of time for me.. its all front delts and triceps

[Griffith]

my pecs dont even engage for 90% of a bench press, the tension drops off about 3 inches off my chest

Waste of time for me.. its all front delts and triceps

You use dumbbell presses instead?

[joswift]

You use dumbbell presses instead?

no, dips and the odd standing cables

I havent picked a dumbell up in a gym for around 4 years maybe longer

[Griffith]

no, dips and the odd standing cables

I havent picked a dumbell up in a gym for around 4 years maybe longer

Do you find dip bars can give relatively complete development?

I do have dip bars, would be interesting to see the results if I stopped bench pressing and focused on them for a while, but always thought the upper pec area might get worked less.

[JK]

my pecs dont even engage for 90% of a bench press, the tension drops off about 3 inches off my chest

Waste of time for me.. its all front delts and triceps

I'm only talking about the bench press from a powerlifting perspective, so I gave examples of different bench pressers with different pressing techniques. It's true what you say, that the front deltoids and triceps do most of the work, but for some reason, it's the pectorals that tear in this exercise.

[mops]

I'm only talking about the bench press from a powerlifting perspective, so I gave examples of different bench pressers with different pressing techniques. It's true what you say, that the front deltoids and triceps do most of the work, but for some reason, it's the pectorals that tear in this exercise.

My interpretation is that in a powerlifting bench setup, the scapulas are retracted, depressed and actively pinned to the bench via thoracic extension (and lat tension obviously), so with the same bar path, the strain is shifted almost entirely onto the pecs compared to a traditional barbell bench, where the shoulder blades slide along the ribcage as the weight moves.

This setup also places the pec origin lower and more posterior (more stretch)

Another crucial detail: during a bench, powerlifters externally rotate their humeruses, which rolls the pecs outward (retarded term, I know) and increases stretch.




Look at the elbows





With all of this in mind, it’s not surprising that pec tears can occur during a powerlifting style bench press.

[joswift]

I'm only talking about the bench press from a powerlifting perspective, so I gave examples of different bench pressers with different pressing techniques. It's true what you say, that the front deltoids and triceps do most of the work, but for some reason, it's the pectorals that tear in this exercise.

Its because the pectorals are not designed to push away from the body, they are a downward pushing muscle, think climbing over an obstacle.

[Van_Bilderass]

Don't do heavy benches with the elbows flared while on steroids which dramatically increase the risk of tears. I tore both pecs in my early 20s pushing very heavy loads, increasing poundage by 100lbs in a few months and stupid things like that. My most serious tear occurred doing wide grip incline benches to the neck in the smith machine which I'd seen Ed Coan recommend somewhere IIRC. Very vulnerable position. As I recall I had about 280lbs on and was planning on 10-12 and on the 3rd it happened. Benching was crazy fun though and I didnt think it would happen so early in my lifting career. The real tragedy for me was that my surgery was delayed and the result was awful.

[Humble Narcissist]

Every guy I've seen tear a pec was on gear. Do natties get muscle tears?

[wes]

Its because the pectorals are not designed to push away from the body, they are a downward pushing muscle, think climbing over an obstacle.

they are also used in a hugging type motion.......such as in db flyes.....the analogy "like hugging a tree" has often been used to describe the function of the pecs....hence I always included flyes when doing chest work.

[falco]

Too much weight, too much volume, not enough rest between workouts.

[wes]

Too much weight, too much volume, not enough rest between workouts.

I agree.....going heavy too often,or attempting a max too often......in powerlifting you have to learn about cycling poundages.

[JK]

My interpretation is that in a powerlifting bench setup, the scapulas are retracted, depressed and actively pinned to the bench via thoracic extension (and lat tension obviously), so with the same bar path, the strain is shifted almost entirely onto the pecs compared to a traditional barbell bench, where the shoulder blades slide along the ribcage as the weight moves.

This setup also places the pec origin lower and more posterior (more stretch)

Another crucial detail: during a bench, powerlifters externally rotate their humeruses, which rolls the pecs outward (retarded term, I know) and increases stretch.




Look at the elbows





With all of this in mind, it’s not surprising that pec tears can occur during a powerlifting style bench press.

Thanks for the explanation. Now that I think about it, I can't think of a single bench presser in the sub-200 lbs category who has torn a pectoral muscle, and it's not uncommon for them to bench press 500 lbs raw.

[JK]

Don't do heavy benches with the elbows flared while on steroids which dramatically increase the risk of tears. I tore both pecs in my early 20s pushing very heavy loads, increasing poundage by 100lbs in a few months and stupid things like that. My most serious tear occurred doing wide grip incline benches to the neck in the smith machine which I'd seen Ed Coan recommend somewhere IIRC. Very vulnerable position. As I recall I had about 280lbs on and was planning on 10-12 and on the 3rd it happened. Benching was crazy fun though and I didnt think it would happen so early in my lifting career. The real tragedy for me was that my surgery was delayed and the result was awful.

I'm surprised Ed Coan recommended such a dangerous exercise. From your description, it looks exactly like how Markus Ruhl performed this exercise.

[JK]

Every guy I've seen tear a pec was on gear. Do natties get muscle tears?

My friend's training partner tore his pectoral muscle while natty, but because of his stupidity - he tried to break his personal best 1RM during every chest workout.