Throw Shit at the Wall Foreign Policy

[mphgrove]

Trying to be open minded here, just thinking about the fact that things can go on and on forever unless the pot is stirred up. Aside from the fact that I generally think he’s a deranged nut case, are there some positives? Here goes:

Syria - definitely in a better place than two years ago. This Syrian people did this on their own, but Trump played it exactly right in welcoming the new guy and allowing flexibility related to our own enclaves and Kurdish enclaves inside Syria.

Venezuela - no question better off under Delsey Rodriguez than under Maduro. But hold on: what about the international norm that one nation cannot just go in and change the leadership of another nation?

Israel/Lebanon - this COULD end up a positive but still way too early to tell. Both Israel and the sensible side of Lebanon (the majority there) would benefit from removing Hezbollah power. Too early to tell.

Israel/Gaza - a wash. Hamas emasculated, but the cost has been near genocide.

Cuba and Iran - I don’t see how either of these can turn out well for the people in either of those nations or the world at large. Neither of those populations can rise up against their own governments and we cannot just go in and take either of them over. Well, I suppose we could appoint Marco Rubio as President of Cuba. I don’t see that happening (thank God) and meanwhile we are facilitating sheer misery in Cuba.

And oh by the way nothing much has changed in Russia/Ukraine.

[GymnJuice]

I see the relative stalemate in Ukraine as a significant upside. The Biden administration had its fingers in too many backroom deals in that region, and I’m glad we’re not deeply entangled there right now. Things could easily be much worse.

In Venezuela, the end result is better, but I don’t like the unilateral approach.

Iran, on the other hand, feels like an unmitigated disaster. We’re in a worse position than when we started, and I worry we’ll soon be pulled in even deeper with no real benefit to the U.S., only perhaps for Israel.

On tariffs, I actually think they’re not a bad idea. I’d much rather tax what people spend than what they earn. So if tariffs serve as an alternative to higher income taxes, I’m in favor of them.

[joswift]

Trying to be open minded here, just thinking about the fact that things can go on and on forever unless the pot is stirred up. Aside from the fact that I generally think he’s a deranged nut case, are there some positives? Here goes:

Syria - definitely in a better place than two years ago. This Syrian people did this on their own, but Trump played it exactly right in welcoming the new guy and allowing flexibility related to our own enclaves and Kurdish enclaves inside Syria.

Venezuela - no question better off under Delsey Rodriguez than under Maduro. But hold on: what about the international norm that one nation cannot just go in and change the leadership of another nation?

Israel/Lebanon - this COULD end up a positive but still way too early to tell. Both Israel and the sensible side of Lebanon (the majority there) would benefit from removing Hezbollah power. Too early to tell.

Israel/Gaza - a wash. Hamas emasculated, but the cost has been near genocide.

Cuba and Iran - I don’t see how either of these can turn out well for the people in either of those nations or the world at large. Neither of those populations can rise up against their own governments and we cannot just go in and take either of them over. Well, I suppose we could appoint Marco Rubio as President of Cuba. I don’t see that happening (thank God) and meanwhile we are facilitating sheer misery in Cuba.

And oh by the way nothing much has changed in Russia/Ukraine.

Syria is now run by Isis Al Quaida splinter groups which were funded by the UK of all people


Seems the only safe vaible outcome is to destroy the whole of the Middle East and make a huge beach complex for Americans and Europeans to holiday on.

[mphgrove]

Syria is now run by Isis Al Quaida splinter groups which were funded by the UK of all people


Seems the only safe vaible outcome is to destroy the whole of the Middle East and make a huge beach complex for Americans and Europeans to holiday on.

Well yes, the current Syria government comes out of a quasi-iSIS mold, but the hope (hope) is they are tamed. At any rate, they are way more representative of the Syrian people and NOTHING as bad as Assad was.

As for the beach resorts, I will stick with Cape Cod, Panama City FL, Lauderdale and Santa Monica. The Gaza Riviera I don’t think so.

[Brenda Steunbeer]

Ukraine - Russia is a European war, let Europe pay for it all. Should not cost the US taxpayer any money.

Cuba / Iran: let proxies provide small arms to those peoples. That way they can defend themselves and hopefully overthrow those regimes. Does not cost much. Chinese made small arms are everywhere and not that expensive.
Same for drones. Organise a dozen proxies and let them attack iran with Chinese made drones. Cheap and effective.

Nukes are the biggest problem, smart move to prevent iran and such from obtaining them.
Apart from that, fuck that horrible region.

US should produce way more oil and natural gas, and build lots of nuclear powerplants.

The faster we all reduce our dependency on that shithole fundamentalist region the better.

[joswift]

Half of Africa is embroiled in armed conflicts and no one gives a flying fuck


Sudan (High-intensity civil war)
Democratic Republic of the Congo (Protracted insurgency and civil conflict)
Somalia (Insurgency and state-building conflict)
Mali (Insurgency and jihadist conflict)
Burkina Faso (Insurgency and jihadist conflict)
Nigeria (Insurgency and communal violence)
Central African Republic (Civil conflict and militia violence)
Ethiopia (Localized insurgencies and ethnic conflict)
Cameroon (Separatist insurgency)
Mozambique (Insurgency in Cabo Delgado)
South Sudan (Post-civil war instability and communal violence)
Libya (Political instability and fragmented armed conflict)
guy (Insurgency and jihadist conflict)

[joswift]

Ukraine - Russia is a European war, let Europe pay for it all. Should not cost the US taxpayer any money.

Cuba / Iran: let proxies provide small arms to those peoples. That way they can defend themselves and hopefully overthrow those regimes. Does not cost much. Chinese made small arms are everywhere and not that expensive.
Same for drones. Organise a dozen proxies and let them attack iran with Chinese made drones. Cheap and effective.

Nukes are the biggest problem, smart move to prevent iran and such from obtaining them.
Apart from that, fuck that horrible region.

US should produce way more oil and natural gas, and build lots of nuclear powerplants.

The faster we all reduce our dependency on that shithole fundamentalist region the better.

why shouldnt Iran have nukes?

the USA is the only country to use them and they still are allowed to have them

[mphgrove]

Half of Africa is embroiled in armed conflicts and no one gives a flying fuck


Sudan (High-intensity civil war)
Democratic Republic of the Congo (Protracted insurgency and civil conflict)
Somalia (Insurgency and state-building conflict)
Mali (Insurgency and jihadist conflict)
Burkina Faso (Insurgency and jihadist conflict)
Nigeria (Insurgency and communal violence)
Central African Republic (Civil conflict and militia violence)
Ethiopia (Localized insurgencies and ethnic conflict)
Cameroon (Separatist insurgency)
Mozambique (Insurgency in Cabo Delgado)
South Sudan (Post-civil war instability and communal violence)
Libya (Political instability and fragmented armed conflict)
guy (Insurgency and jihadist conflict)

Boy, do I agree with the spirit of what you are saying there! The pastor of my church drones on and on and on about Gaza (and yes there is a lot to say about that). I have gone right up to him and said, “well what about Haiti which is right next door to us??” Or even, “what about the violence in some our own big City neighborhoods?” Gaza is complex, but droning on ONLY about Gaza is a subtle version of anti-semitism (IMHO).

[Lartinos]

Interesting how people are so confused by geopolitics that they try to make it fit some sort of Right vs Left debate.

These people are nothing more than CEO types who advance whatever elite focus and agenda is at that time.

If Trump wants Cuba it’s because it benefits these elites as a whole.

[Grape Ape]

why shouldnt Iran have nukes?

the USA is the only country to use them and they still are allowed to have them

Because they believe in martyrdom and want to get them to use them.

They do not value human life in the same way other countries do.