Author Topic: Hit con man John Heart is wrong again.  (Read 671 times)

Rmj11

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1879
Hit con man John Heart is wrong again.
« on: June 21, 2026, 02:10:54 AM »
s=QB-YdaaOMBvPrFTZ


The biggest problem with John's poor argument is that he starts by assuming his conclusion. He says Dorian trained with one working set taken beyond failure, therefore Dorian was doing HIT. He wasnt but that's not actually the debate. The debate is whether Dorian's training was the same thing as Arthur Jones' and Mike Mentzer's HIT philosophy.

Dorian himself repeatedly admitted over the years that his training evolved beyond pure HIT. He performed multiple warm up sets aka pyramid/ramp sets, often multiple exercises per body part, and his total workload was far higher than what Arthur Jones originally prescribed. By the time Dorian was at his peak, he wasn't doing "one set and go home." He was doing several exercises for each muscle group, often accumulating far more work than HIT dreamers like to admit.

John tries to dismiss warm up sets by saying they "don't count." That's convenient, but muscles don't know whether a set is labelled warm up or working set. If you're doing 10 reps with 315 before incline pressing 405, your body is still performing work. Fatigue accumulates. Training stress accumulates. To say those sets magically don't matter because they're called warm ups is a semantic trick.

Another weakness is his definition of HIT. He basically redefines HIT as "training to failure." If that's the definition, then Arnold, Ferrigno, Platz, Haney, Coleman and countless volume trainers were doing HIT whenever they pushed a set to failure. The term becomes meaningless. Historically, HIT wasn't just training to failure. It was a complete training philosophy centred around minimal volume, infrequent training and usually one all out set per exercise. That's why people debate whether Dorian was truly HIT or not, answer is he wasn't.

He also claims that multiple sets beyond failure provide no additional benefit and may even be detrimental. The problem is that bodybuilding history doesn't support such a sweeping claim. Arnold trained with high volume. Nubret trained with enormous volume. Sergio trained with high volume. Ronnie Coleman trained with high volume. Jay Cutler trained with high volume. Lee Haney trained with moderate to high volume. These men built some of the greatest physiques in history without relying on a single all out set per exercise.

Then there's the contradiction about recovery. He says Dorian's routine worked because of one all out set, but later admits enhanced bodybuilders recover differently due to drug use. That's a huge factor. Dorian wasn't just another guy training hard. He was an elite genetic outlier using pharmaceutical assistance, eating perfectly, sleeping perfectly and dedicating his life to recovery. You can't isolate one variable and claim the success came entirely from HIT.

The claim that training muscles more frequently is "dumb" is also overly simplistic. Modern research consistently shows that weekly volume is a major driver of hypertrophy. Frequency is simply a way of distributing that volume. Plenty of natural lifters make excellent gains training a muscle two or three times per week. If frequency didn't work, Olympic weightlifters, powerlifters and many successful bodybuilders would all be failing to progress.

What really happened is that Dorian created a hybrid system. He took the intensity concepts of Jones and Mentzer, combined them with more exercises, more total work and practical experience, then adapted them to his own recovery abilities and drug enhanced physiology. That's why Dorian himself has described his training as a hybrid over the years.

Ironically, John even admits this in the video, then spends the rest of the video arguing it isn't a hybrid.
The reality is that Dorian's success doesn't prove HIT is superior any more than Arnold's success proves high volume is superior. It proves that an extraordinarily gifted, drug-assisted, hyper-disciplined athlete found a system that worked for him, which wasn't that much different to how many pro's trained.
That's a very different claim from "HIT is the best way to train."

Van_Bilderass

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19031
  • "Don't Try"
Re: Hit con man John Heart is wrong again.
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2026, 08:34:25 AM »
By the time Dorian was at his peak, he wasn't doing "one set and go home." He was doing several exercises for each muscle group, often accumulating far more work than HIT dreamers like to admit.

I don't really agree with your characterization. It wasn't a pyramid like for most trainees in that the preceding sets were only enough to warm up as little as possible without really causing any fatigue that would hamper the top set. Lots of critics have said Dorian's routine wasn't what he claimed; IMO it was exactly as claimed. It really changes how you lift when you eye the top set as the only one that causes the adaptation. The others didn't really care if they beat their previous best at the top of the pyramid. They just lifted "hard" instead of feeling a need for it to be progressive, preferably each workout. It's just not the same with this mentality, the top set will be different and you'll demand more. His lifting also got more brief as time went on and now he says he would have cut it even more in retrospect.

Many "experts" have claimed that volume is really the main driver and I don't agree with that "science" at all, it's not what the science shows IMO. Also, "naturals" don't make excellent progress, no matter what you do it grinds to a halt extremely quickly, almost all growth comes when starting out. If someone makes "great gains" much later it's because they were drugging.

One of my pet peeves is guys who have been lifting for decades saying they're making great gains. No, they are regaining, actual new, never before held tissue is hard to come by.

IroNat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 42872
  • AI is a bubble
Re: Hit con man John Heart is wrong again.
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2026, 10:12:25 AM »
Agreed, Van

Humble Narcissist

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 36750
Re: Hit con man John Heart is wrong again.
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2026, 04:59:43 PM »
Doesn't matter, training that hard just leads to injury.

IroNat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 42872
  • AI is a bubble
Re: Hit con man John Heart is wrong again.
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2026, 05:22:58 AM »
Doesn't matter, training that hard just leads to injury.

NaturalWonder83

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13018
  • I don't know where the sunbeams end
Re: Hit con man John Heart is wrong again.
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2026, 07:45:28 AM »
I am so sick of this training debate GARBAGE!

WHO CARES!

Find what works for you. Maybe it's a bunch of sets. Maybe it's a few sets. Maybe you respond better to low reps.

If you're not happy with your progress, perhaps you need to train a bit harder?

Are you not happy with your body fat? Then eat less.

Maybe you only like doing tricep pushdowns. Are you happy with your arm size? If yes, then that's fine. No you don't have to do skull crushers.

Do you enjoy squatting to 90 degrees instead of ATG? Are you having fun in the gym? Do you look forward to squatting the way you are? Then that's fine. Or learn to squat deeper. No one cares what you do.

Just do what you want and enjoy yourself! There is no international gym police force that keeps watch over all gyms and the exercises people choose.

The basic exercises work and have worked for decades. Find what feels good, what you can connect to, and just get stronger. If your form is locked in, if youre eating sensibly, and if you're consistent over time, you'll be fine.
w

Irongrip400

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 23284
  • Pan Germanism, Pax Britannica
Re: Hit con man John Heart is wrong again.
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2026, 09:04:24 AM »
I would think if you just came in and did one heavy set to failure you’d hurt yourself. I need to warm up. No way could I just go in and pound out a set of 275-300 on a bench or squat. My joints and tendons would break.

chaos

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63127
  • Ron "There is no freedom of speech here" Avidan
Re: Hit con man John Heart is wrong again.
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2026, 09:12:11 AM »
I would think if you just came in and did one heavy set to failure you’d hurt yourself. I need to warm up. No way could I just go in and pound out a set of 275-300 on a bench or squat. My joints and tendons would break.
No matter the lift or how strong or weak I am in it, I always start with an empty bar. I would be crippled without warming up.
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

MajorDomo

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1313
Re: Hit con man John Heart is wrong again.
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2026, 09:24:47 AM »


 Also, "naturals" don't make excellent progress, no matter what you do it grinds to a halt extremely quickly, almost all growth comes when starting out. If someone makes "great gains" much later it's because they were drugging.


This x 1000. Every "natural" makes awesome gains in the first 2 or 3 years, then it stops.  Doesn't matter what training program you use.

I went from ~155 pounds to ~185 in a little over 2.5 years when i started. The it slowed down to being negligible. Any mass gains I made after that period were just fat.

Royalty

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 34586
  • Trust Trump 🇺🇸
Re: Hit con man John Heart is wrong again.
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2026, 09:57:00 AM »
This x 1000. Every "natural" makes awesome gains in the first 2 or 3 years, then it stops.  Doesn't matter what training program you use.

I went from ~155 pounds to ~185 in a little over 2.5 years when i started. The it slowed down to being negligible. Any mass gains I made after that period were just fat.

Wag Bennett, Joe Weider, and Paul Graham would’ve made you an Olympia champion 😂

MajorDomo

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1313
Re: Hit con man John Heart is wrong again.
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2026, 11:45:06 AM »
Wag Bennett, Joe Weider, and Paul Graham would’ve made you an Olympia champion 😂

lol - I know, right?

beakdoctor

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8510
  • Royalty looks like a colostomy bag.
Re: Hit con man John Heart is wrong again.
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2026, 06:38:59 PM »
LOL, mentzer basically stole the Heavy Dooty concept from Art Jones HIT bullshit.  And AJ based his HIT training on his own 'Colorado Experiment' which is the biggest bullshit fraud in the history of sport/fitness/bodybuilding.

Lol, Casey gained 62 lbs of muscle in 8 weeks and 12 workouts. Oh wait it was 42 lbs but he lost 20lbs of fat so it was a gain of 62 lbs.

Royalty actually believes that load of shit!!! Lol🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Holy fuck how can a grown man be that stupid?

Don't worry roy even AJ and Mike can't make YOU a champ. Lol!

Royalty

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 34586
  • Trust Trump 🇺🇸
Re: Hit con man John Heart is wrong again.
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2026, 06:59:00 PM »
▫️

ChiroFlex

  • Getbig I
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Getbig!
Re: Hit con man John Heart is wrong again.
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2026, 07:39:21 PM »
s=QB-YdaaOMBvPrFTZ


The biggest problem with John's poor argument is that he starts by assuming his conclusion. He says Dorian trained with one working set taken beyond failure, therefore Dorian was doing HIT. He wasnt but that's not actually the debate. The debate is whether Dorian's training was the same thing as Arthur Jones' and Mike Mentzer's HIT philosophy.

Dorian himself repeatedly admitted over the years that his training evolved beyond pure HIT. He performed multiple warm up sets aka pyramid/ramp sets, often multiple exercises per body part, and his total workload was far higher than what Arthur Jones originally prescribed. By the time Dorian was at his peak, he wasn't doing "one set and go home." He was doing several exercises for each muscle group, often accumulating far more work than HIT dreamers like to admit.

John tries to dismiss warm up sets by saying they "don't count." That's convenient, but muscles don't know whether a set is labelled warm up or working set. If you're doing 10 reps with 315 before incline pressing 405, your body is still performing work. Fatigue accumulates. Training stress accumulates. To say those sets magically don't matter because they're called warm ups is a semantic trick.

Another weakness is his definition of HIT. He basically redefines HIT as "training to failure." If that's the definition, then Arnold, Ferrigno, Platz, Haney, Coleman and countless volume trainers were doing HIT whenever they pushed a set to failure. The term becomes meaningless. Historically, HIT wasn't just training to failure. It was a complete training philosophy centred around minimal volume, infrequent training and usually one all out set per exercise. That's why people debate whether Dorian was truly HIT or not, answer is he wasn't.

He also claims that multiple sets beyond failure provide no additional benefit and may even be detrimental. The problem is that bodybuilding history doesn't support such a sweeping claim. Arnold trained with high volume. Nubret trained with enormous volume. Sergio trained with high volume. Ronnie Coleman trained with high volume. Jay Cutler trained with high volume. Lee Haney trained with moderate to high volume. These men built some of the greatest physiques in history without relying on a single all out set per exercise.

Then there's the contradiction about recovery. He says Dorian's routine worked because of one all out set, but later admits enhanced bodybuilders recover differently due to drug use. That's a huge factor. Dorian wasn't just another guy training hard. He was an elite genetic outlier using pharmaceutical assistance, eating perfectly, sleeping perfectly and dedicating his life to recovery. You can't isolate one variable and claim the success came entirely from HIT.

The claim that training muscles more frequently is "dumb" is also overly simplistic. Modern research consistently shows that weekly volume is a major driver of hypertrophy. Frequency is simply a way of distributing that volume. Plenty of natural lifters make excellent gains training a muscle two or three times per week. If frequency didn't work, Olympic weightlifters, powerlifters and many successful bodybuilders would all be failing to progress.

What really happened is that Dorian created a hybrid system. He took the intensity concepts of Jones and Mentzer, combined them with more exercises, more total work and practical experience, then adapted them to his own recovery abilities and drug enhanced physiology. That's why Dorian himself has described his training as a hybrid over the years.

Ironically, John even admits this in the video, then spends the rest of the video arguing it isn't a hybrid.
The reality is that Dorian's success doesn't prove HIT is superior any more than Arnold's success proves high volume is superior. It proves that an extraordinarily gifted, drug-assisted, hyper-disciplined athlete found a system that worked for him, which wasn't that much different to how many pro's trained.
That's a very different claim from "HIT is the best way to train."

Shutup.

beakdoctor

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8510
  • Royalty looks like a colostomy bag.
Re: Hit con man John Heart is wrong again.
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2026, 02:45:59 PM »
▫️

Hey Roy, if you start now, you can gain 62 pounds of muscle by August 22nd.


 

AbrahamG

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21091
  • Affeman Is Numero Uno
Re: Hit con man John Heart is wrong again.
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2026, 10:05:02 PM »
▫️

LMFAO @ "prepare your anus"

pamith

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 9252
Re: Hit con man John Heart is wrong again.
« Reply #16 on: Today at 01:02:25 AM »
Brutal if true

Griffith

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10281
  • .......

Humble Narcissist

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 36750
Re: Hit con man John Heart is wrong again.
« Reply #18 on: Today at 07:10:36 AM »
^^^ Very cute.