BEWARE of PDI show in Orlando....

[Slick Vic]

NPC athletes can enter this event if they so desire - but beware that once pro status is accepted, your NPC amateur status is gone and you can no longer compete in any future NPC events without first petitioning the NPC for reinstatement of your amateur status. And even that is not guaranteed.

[240 is Back]

company man!

[BigAnt]

That is not right, who made this statement?

I see law suits all over it..

[Slick Vic]

That is not right, who made this statement?

I see law suits all over it..

It actually kinda makes sense.

[timfogarty]

I think the court settlement with the AAU back in 1982 or so would make that difficult.

and lots of "pros" in other orgs have later competed as an amateur in the NPC.  Stan McQuay for one.

with pro basketball and hockey players competing in the Olympics, "losing your amateur status" has no meaning anymore.

[wes mantooth]

i read the same statement today in southern muscle plus editiorial...page 64

ill try to find it online

[timfogarty]

Let's parse this a bit

once pro status is accepted, your NPC amateur status is gone and you can no longer compete in any future NPC events

You can be offered to be a pro in the PDI, but it's not until you accept being a pro that you could not compete in the NPC.  But if you're competing as a pro in the PDI, why would you want to compete in the NPC?  Only if PDI disappears in a few years and you want to compete as an IFBB pro would it matter.  And then only if the IFBB said you weren't good enough and should go win the Nationals first.

When the WBF went under, all the pros were welcomed back in the IFBB.   The IFBB can offer pro status to who ever they want.  They automatically offer pro status to the winners of the Nationals and other events, but there is nothing restricting them to only offer it to the winners of your country's national championships.  If they think you'll sell tickets, they'll offer you a pro card.

This is more evidence that the IFBB/NPC is really concerned about the PDI.

[Tre]

Not true.

Women have been going back and forth between the NPC and Fitness America and Ms. Fitness for years.

[LuciusFox]

Not true.

Women have been going back and forth between the NPC and Fitness America and Ms. Fitness for years.

  Are you saying that no one cares about the women's competitions so the rules are different?

[The Luke]

The more I hear about the arbitrary enforcement of these regulations by governing bodies in bodybuilding the more sickened I am.
  Federations threatening to blackball amateur athletes who actually pay to compete (registration fees) in contests where no prize money is available. Isn't that tantamount to a private company threatening to boycott its own customers??

I hope the PDI will be good for bodybuilding... however I remember the WBF debacle. I remember all the negative press against the WBF in the Weider magazines and the between the lines threats. I remember the $25,000 fine former WBF athletes had to pay in order to recompense the IFBB for their crime of daring to make a living for themselves... if memory serves it was taken out of contest winnings.


Here's a (humorous) post I wrote in another thread recently that I think offers a viable alternative to exploititive federations:


*****************************************************************************
This is a problem of power... and there is a simple answer to all this, CHANGE THE BALANCE OF POWER!

Step 1:
Get a lawyer to draw up a membership contract which would unionise the competitors: an agreement (in principle) to abide by the rules and regulations (and be a member) of the hypothetical union described in the contract, with a few stipulations:

-the membership of the signed athlete (and the existence of the contract) remains secret till a point in time when at least 75% of all active pro bodybuilders have signed similar contracts

-once the membership requirement has been met the union becomes official and the contract becomes binding

-should the union fail to come into existence in a period of say, one year, the contract becomes null and void



This way you could draw up an ideal contract descibing the kind of union the athletes want, in secret, without anyone ever being any the wiser... until it was too late.

Imagine the hissy fit the Weider brothers would throw if it was suddenly announced that IFBB Pros had unionised, elected their own leadership and three quarters of them had signed binding contracts that forbade them from competing in events that weren't sanctioned by the union. Not only that, the union athletes are legally bound to boycott any event in which non union athletes are competing.

Ask yourself...
Wouldn't it be cool if the athletes union was charging both the promoter and the IFBB a sanctioning fee... wouldn't that be ironic?
How about judges being blackballed by competitors?
How about promoters having to disclose their profit margins to the athletes union?
What about the union setting the prize money?
What about the union demanding prepayment for prizes, seminars, guest appearances, guest posings?

What about the union running and promoting their own shows?

Would we still need the IFBB??


It's that simple you wingeing bitches... just hire The Luke... put this evil genius to work FOR YOU, TODAY!!
I'd take over the IFBB in two weeks.

The Luke

[Figo]

How will union spokesperson/steward be selected? vote? Dont know about "selecting" judging panel.








www.enutrition.co.za

[The Luke]

Figo,

The whole point is that two hours of a good contract lawyers time ($1,000), and twenty bucks of stationary would allow the athletes themselves to co-opt the entire IFBB.

The contract could define the union (and through veto and boycott the entire sport) any way the athletes saw fit: democratic; autocratic; bureaucratic... in fact, (hopefully) anything other than the current corruption and abuse of power.


For years Weider publishing (which apparently sold to AMI for $350 million) was regularly making net profits in the tens of millions while at the same time non-contracted pros weren't getting paid anything for training articles... and entire years would go by without any of the male cover models getting paid anything for their covers, unless you count the publicity. Athletes weren't being paid their purses, despite the fact that (exorbitant) sanctioning fees (which should include the purses) were paid in advance to the IFBB. Judging panels were regularly making very questionable decisions.... no appeal process, no judge rotation, no inquiries or investigations.
Athletes were blackballed, denied publicity and even penalised in the judging process for competing in other federations or speaking out against the judging process.

I could go on, but you get the message..... it has to stop, the IFBB knows the athletes could take back the sport, it's counting on them not wising up.

The Luke 

[Figo]

The Luke,

I totally stand by your views, but wether the guys will get together and stand-up to the powers that be, is another story altogether.

As you said, the years of extortion and slave-driving could have instilled a "slave"(so-to-speak, not to be taken literally, and not aimed at anybody but to exemplify the erroneous ways of the powers-that-be) mentality and they will not want to stand-up to their pay-check writers, even though they've been treated as beggars for decades now, and unsure of the new federations clout. Even cautious due to previous failures, such as WBF(and paying 25K to be allowed to be extorted all over again), although the PDI is not looking at starting a circus, but you get my point.
As many pros have said before, includig the most outspoken of them all, Priest, everyone wants to do something, and its all big talk, until they get to the crunch and nothing happens.

I seriously hope wether its PDI, IDP, DPI or whoever, someone takes a stand sometime and do something for the athletes (or the athletes for themselves, as you pointed out), which in turn will improve the "sport".




www.enutrition.co.za

[timfogarty]

the problem is that every new pro thinks he'll someday win the Olympia, but if he makes waves, he'll never win the Olympia, so they're willing to put up with shit because someday they'll be on top.

[Ron]

Look, the NPC is an amatuer federation. You cannot get money for placing in it, nor prizes equivallent to money. Once any athlete as participated in an event that he/she gets money for, then they are not an amatuer anymore, thus cannot compete in the NPC.

Until they compete in a PDI pro contest, there is no violation. Once you do, and get money, that is it.

It is the same for an IFBB Pro. Until they compete in a PDI contest, the are not breaking a rule. But once you compete at the PDI Pro contest, it is done.

[timfogarty]

Look, the NPC is an amatuer federation. You cannot get money for placing in it, nor prizes equivallent to money. Once any athlete as participated in an event that he/she gets money for, then they are not an amatuer anymore, thus cannot compete in the NPC.

Please show where in the NPC rule book does it state that only amateurs can compete and what defines an amateur.

Back in the day, if you worked at a gym or were a personal trainer, you lost your amateur status.  If you endorsed a product, you lost your amateur status.  If you were paid for a photo shoot, you lost your amateur status.   By those standards, not one person at the NPC Nationals would qualify as an amateur.

Stan McQuay and Tito Raymond both won Musclemania pro events and later competed in the NPC.   Tommy Alston, Ken Yasuda, Mark Alvisi, Mike D'Angelo, Richard (Tricky) Jackson, Brian Glynn.  Derrick Brown won Musclemania Pro, then competed in the IFBB North American Championships.  I'm sure I could find a few more names who competed as a pro in Musclemania, WNBF or another org. 

That AAU settlement makes it pretty much impossible for the NPC to ban anyone for competing in another league.

[The Luke]

Well said Figo....

However I still contend that the solution is one of covert commandeering of the entire sport.

FUCK the federations!

Remember the IFBB markets itself as a non-profit pro-bono organisation.... while making no attempt to maintain even a semblance of impartiality or propriety. It's Achilles heel is the fact that a contract such as the one I have proposed could undermine the entire house of cards for just a couple of thousand dollars.

What we need is "Bodybuilding for the athletes, by the athletes".

Now, I feel like Moses...

The Luke

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

Please show where in the NPC rule book does it state that only amateurs can compete and what defines an amateur.

Back in the day, if you worked at a gym or were a personal trainer, you lost your amateur status.  If you endorsed a product, you lost your amateur status.  If you were paid for a photo shoot, you lost your amateur status.   By those standards, not one person at the NPC Nationals would qualify as an amateur.

Stan McQuay and Tito Raymond both won Musclemania pro events and later competed in the NPC.   Tommy Alston, Ken Yasuda, Mark Alvisi, Mike D'Angelo, Richard (Tricky) Jackson, Brian Glynn.  Derrick Brown won Musclemania Pro, then competed in the IFBB North American Championships.  I'm sure I could find a few more names who competed as a pro in Musclemania, WNBF or another org. 

That AAU settlement makes it pretty much impossible for the NPC to ban anyone for competing in another league.

All the athletes you mentioned were pros in another arena but were able to compete in the NPC however they had to petition the NPC for acceptance.  Since the Musclemania or the WNBF poses no vitual threat to the NPC or IFBB, there were usually let in the door.



Now if a person competed in an organization rival to the IFBB, then you can kiss your petition goodbye and the IFBB will use the pro/amatuer stipulation to freeze them out.  Anyone else who gets by can pretty much consider themselves blackballed.


For the athletes who came back from the WBF, they were all fined 50,000 and never came close to winning a show ever again.  They were dragged on the ground, stomped, and left out in the ocean

[Tre]

  Are you saying that no one cares about the women's competitions so the rules are different?

I'm saying that no one in the NPC gives a shit what PDI does, so you won't have any NPC 'moles' in the audience taking names in order to report back to Big Brother. 

[Tre]

the problem is that every new pro thinks he'll someday win the Olympia, but if he makes waves, he'll never win the Olympia, so they're willing to put up with shit because someday they'll be on top.

The powers-that-be rely on that as a control mechanism.

And this is something that *does* begin at the NPC level (sorry, guys).

[timfogarty]

All the athletes you mentioned were pros in another arena but were able to compete in the NPC however they had to petition the NPC for acceptance.

do you know for a fact that these guys went through a petition process?  Prior to MuscleMemory, how would the NPC have any idea that these guys competed in another league?  The NPC has thousands of members.  When you send in your membership fee, I doubt they do a background check.

[Tre]

... never came close to winning a show...  They were dragged on the ground, stomped, and left out in the ocean

You just described 96% of every 'pro' who ever competed for those shysters in Montreal.  

[michael arvilla]

IF there not giving you a fair look in the IFBB..................PD I looks mighty good!

[LuciusFox]

IF there not giving you a fair look in the IFBB..................PD I looks mighty good!

 Brutal delts

[hifrommike]

The new issue of FLEX (June) had a pic of Bozo the Clown, & labelled it "DeMilia with PDI," or something to that effect.  The IFBB will go after those who cross over with everything they've got, & don't expect to be treated fairly.  Then again, who was treated fairly by the NPC anyway?  We need alternatives to the NPC, & the PDI is the best opportunity to come along in a long time.  I say if you're willing to cross, don't look back.  Go for it & try your best in the new league.