Ironage standards.

[Matt C]

Discuss.

[240 is Back]

i'm a closet ironager....
aside from the 100%/95% argument and the real life standard, you have to consider the flow/art side of it too... a bob paris will slay a derik foansworth, even though both are 100% and derik is achieveable real life, as bob gets the beauty edge. of course, it's 2:45 am and this whey isn't sitting right, so i may be way off

[NarcissisticDeity]

Ironage has great standards ........thats why they got rid of you . 

[timfogarty]

ironage:  mass 33%, symmetry 33%, proportionality 33%, looks 1%

today: mass 90%, symmetry 6%, proportionality 4%

[sculpture]

Ironage has great standards ........thats why they got rid of you . 

Then why have they kept you?

[benchthis]

In short I think ironagers would want to encourage what Shawn did.  He was in 100% shape (structure wise) at 210.  He could have been 240 or more with 95% of his balance but this would not be desirable to ironagers...I think.

 if he would of he would a won a olympia title

[WOOO]

ironage:  mass 33%, symmetry 33%, proportionality 33%, looks 1%

today: mass 90%, symmetry 6%, proportionality 4%

today modified: mass: 140%, symmewhat?, proporwho?

[MrUniverse]

ah the better days

[karasan]

Then there is an another point.
Take a look at Arnold's side chest pose, it looks much better than Ronnie's...
So there is no meaning of that extra mass.
For biceps, it is the same thing, Ronnie's arms are 2.5 inches bigger than Arnold's but, overall, Arnold have much better looking biceps(Ronnie's triceps,looking much better)

I think it is very easy, Ronnie's mid section is around 42 inches, in contest shape, chest is around 62 most!
So there is 20 inches.

Check out arnold, 34 inches waistline, 58 inches chest, 25 inches, now this is the point.
When we take a look at Sergio, proportion is even more dramatic, there is maybe 27 inches between chest and waist.
This is what ironage about, it doesn't make sense, when you have an enormous chest, when it is hardly further than your belly...

As far as Lee Haney and Bob Paris, I think Lee Haney had the edge, because of his superior v taper and stronger overall look.
Bob Paris had great potentiol, but he needed more size on delts and lats, same goes for Milos Sarcev.

Shawn Ray, didn't have the structure to be Mr. Olympia, he was looking great, but this sport requires something special, and I believe he didn't have that.
Ronnie has great structure, Dorian had many great bodyparts and also good over all thickness, Samir Bannout had the first real chrismas tree and magnificent lats and again good overall structure...
This goes like that, but Shawn Ray, had a long torso, short legs and narrow shoulders, structurewise, even Larry Scott had more potential than Shawn had...

[NarcissisticDeity]

Then there is an another point.
Take a look at Arnold's side chest pose, it looks much better than Ronnie's...
So there is no meaning of that extra mass.
For biceps, it is the same thing, Ronnie's arms are 2.5 inches bigger than Arnold's but, overall, Arnold have much better looking biceps(Ronnie's triceps,looking much better)

I think it is very easy, Ronnie's mid section is around 42 inches, in contest shape, chest is around 62 most!
So there is 20 inches.

Check out arnold, 34 inches waistline, 58 inches chest, 25 inches, now this is the point.
When we take a look at Sergio, proportion is even more dramatic, there is maybe 27 inches between chest and waist.
This is what ironage about, it doesn't make sense, when you have an enormous chest, when it is hardly further than your belly...

As far as Lee Haney and Bob Paris, I think Lee Haney had the edge, because of his superior v taper and stronger overall look.
Bob Paris had great potentiol, but he needed more size on delts and lats, same goes for Milos Sarcev.

Shawn Ray, didn't have the structure to be Mr. Olympia, he was looking great, but this sport requires something special, and I believe he didn't have that.
Ronnie has great structure, Dorian had many great bodyparts and also good over all thickness, Samir Bannout had the first real chrismas tree and magnificent lats and again good overall structure...
This goes like that, but Shawn Ray, had a long torso, short legs and narrow shoulders, structurewise, even Larry Scott had more potential than Shawn had...

Wow great post !!

[LuciusFox]

Then there is an another point.
Take a look at Arnold's side chest pose, it looks much better than Ronnie's...
So there is no meaning of that extra mass.
For biceps, it is the same thing, Ronnie's arms are 2.5 inches bigger than Arnold's but, overall, Arnold have much better looking biceps(Ronnie's triceps,looking much better)

I think it is very easy, Ronnie's mid section is around 42 inches, in contest shape, chest is around 62 most!
So there is 20 inches.

Check out arnold, 34 inches waistline, 58 inches chest, 25 inches, now this is the point.
When we take a look at Sergio, proportion is even more dramatic, there is maybe 27 inches between chest and waist.
This is what ironage about, it doesn't make sense, when you have an enormous chest, when it is hardly further than your belly...

As far as Lee Haney and Bob Paris, I think Lee Haney had the edge, because of his superior v taper and stronger overall look.
Bob Paris had great potentiol, but he needed more size on delts and lats, same goes for Milos Sarcev.

Shawn Ray, didn't have the structure to be Mr. Olympia, he was looking great, but this sport requires something special, and I believe he didn't have that.
Ronnie has great structure, Dorian had many great bodyparts and also good over all thickness, Samir Bannout had the first real chrismas tree and magnificent lats and again good overall structure...
This goes like that, but Shawn Ray, had a long torso, short legs and narrow shoulders, structurewise, even Larry Scott had more potential than Shawn had...

  Ronnie's side chest pose blows Arnold's away. You, my friend, are suffering from Ironage delusions

[Hypertrophy]

ironage:  mass 33%, symmetry 33%, proportionality 33%, looks 1%

today: mass 90%, symmetry 6%, proportionality 4%

That pretty much sums it up. I prefer the ironage criteria.

What is the general preference on this board?

[sarcasm]

Matt i totally agree with your post of awhile back where you said that today's pro's are basically ironagers with 40 or 50 lbs. more muscle on them and that these so called "symmetrical" ironagers would look exactly the same with the same drug use as today's pros.

[Ex Coelis]

I thought it was funny how Labrada's wife was so much taller than him. I'm also glad he got rid of that mustache

[hipolito mejia]

Then there is an another point.
Take a look at Arnold's side chest pose, it looks much better than Ronnie's...
So there is no meaning of that extra mass.
For biceps, it is the same thing, Ronnie's arms are 2.5 inches bigger than Arnold's but, overall, Arnold have much better looking biceps(Ronnie's triceps,looking much better)

I think it is very easy, Ronnie's mid section is around 42 inches, in contest shape, chest is around 62 most!
So there is 20 inches.

Check out arnold, 34 inches waistline, 58 inches chest, 25 inches, now this is the point.
When we take a look at Sergio, proportion is even more dramatic, there is maybe 27 inches between chest and waist.
This is what ironage about, it doesn't make sense, when you have an enormous chest, when it is hardly further than your belly...

As far as Lee Haney and Bob Paris, I think Lee Haney had the edge, because of his superior v taper and stronger overall look.
Bob Paris had great potentiol, but he needed more size on delts and lats, same goes for Milos Sarcev.

Shawn Ray, didn't have the structure to be Mr. Olympia, he was looking great, but this sport requires something special, and I believe he didn't have that.
Ronnie has great structure, Dorian had many great bodyparts and also good over all thickness, Samir Bannout had the first real chrismas tree and magnificent lats and again good overall structure...
This goes like that, but Shawn Ray, had a long torso, short legs and narrow shoulders, structurewise, even Larry Scott had more potential than Shawn had...

That's info you won't find in any mag!!!

[hipolito mejia]

  Ronnie's side chest pose blows Arnold's away. You, my friend, are suffering from Ironage delusions

And you are watching Kin kong dvd special edition way to much.

[crc69]

Do you have a problem with me ND?  I thought we were getting along very well with me stealing your scans and all lol (they are excellent by the way, half the people scanning these days don't even know how to use a scanner properly lol).

No, bad scans : bad resolution, too small. Correct size : >= Google images : large images.

[LuciusFox]

And you are watching Kin kong dvd special edition way to much.

  What is "Kin Kong"? A movie about his family? Hahahahahahaha...

[doison]

It's really much more simple. 

Everyone trains to get bigger.  Ironager's don't/didn't have the work ethic or dedication to get bigger, so they create the false idea that it was their "choice" to be smaller. 

Same reason when someone looks over your shoulder at a pic of Ronnie or Jay on the screen and says "do you want to get that big?"  All the douches here reply "No way, I prefer to keep my waist small.  I would never want to be that big." 

Obviously, they don't have the choice, because training hard, and eating correctly are more difficult than just "pretending" you want to stay small.

[body88]

It's really much more simple. 

Everyone trains to get bigger.  Ironager's don't/didn't have the work ethic or dedication to get bigger, so they create the false idea that it was their "choice" to be smaller. 

Same reason when someone looks over your shoulder at a pic of Ronnie or Jay on the screen and says "do you want to get that big?"  All the douches here reply "No way, I prefer to keep my waist small.  I would never want to be that big." 

Obviously, they don't have the choice, because training hard, and eating correctly are more difficult than just "pretending" you want to stay small.

 Arnold didnt train hard? Mentzer? Viator? Sergio? Nubret? PLATZ. You obviously have no idea about BB or any clue how hard these guys trained compared to the Bob Chics of today who are much larger yet train on freking machines and dont even squat / bench... The difference is  the evolutuion of DRUGS nutrition and information. All of the old school guys I listed trained longer and harder than most pros today... get a clue

[Hulkster]

I have no problem with ironage standards.

I have no problem with tribute to bodybuildings past.

but I DO have a problem with ironagers taking shots at today's champions just because they do not live in the 1970's.

Eg. a perfect example is ND's criticism's of Ronnie:

If an ironage pro has a small waist and great taper its awesome

But if ronnie 1999 has a small waist and great taper its totally crap and worse than anyone you could possibly compare him to (eg. Dorian, Kevin, anyone).

The ironage board is full of idiots like this.

they take contest pics of 70's guys and compare them to offseason shots of current champs and bash them to peices

Having ironage standards should not exclude giving due credit to current pros.

[LuciusFox]

I have no problem with ironage standards.

I have no problem with tribute to bodybuildings past.

but I DO have a problem with ironagers taking shots at today's champions just because they do not live in the 1970's.

Eg. a perfect example is ND's criticism's of Ronnie:

If an ironage pro has a small waist and great taper its awesome

But if ronnie 1999 has a small waist and great taper its totally crap and worse than anyone you could possibly compare him to (eg. Dorian, Kevin, anyone).

The ironage board is full of idiots like this.

they take contest pics of 70's guys and compare them to offseason shots of current champs and bash them to peices

Having ironage standards should not exclude giving due credit to current pros.

  Ironagers are just too inconsistent. They think Ronnie's leg proportions are off but they praise Tom Platz.

[thisiskeith12]

  Ironagers are just too inconsistent. They think Ronnie's leg proportions are off but they praise Tom Platz.

Platz was considered a "freak", has the trend not continued?!

[NarcissisticDeity]

1999 Ronnie had a gut and the Ironage ideal is NO Mr Olympia should have a gut , its contradictory to 40 years of history , it tarnishes the title when a 99/00/01/02/03/04/05 Ronnie can win with a gut , a LOT of Ironagers think Dorian shouldn't have won either , and I'm on that boat , Dorian 1997 should NOT have been called the greatest bodybuilder on the planet .

[timfogarty]

Arnold didnt train hard? Mentzer? Viator? Sergio? Nubret? PLATZ. You obviously have no idea about BB or any clue how hard these guys trained compared to the Bob Chics of today who are much larger yet train on freking machines and dont even squat / bench... The difference is  the evolutuion of DRUGS nutrition and information. All of the old school guys I listed trained longer and harder than most pros today... get a clue

yes, I agree.  while today's top bodybuilders train hard and take lots of drugs, many of the 2nd and 3rd tier bodybuilders seem to just take lots of drug.