orthodox jews

[Bast175]

why are they so damn strange and why are they different from other jews?

[Deedee]

They aren't "strange" just much more observant in following the halachic code than conservative or reform Jews. I may not know much about Wicca, and am not Jewish, but THIS topic I do have some knowledge about.  If this thread is still around next week, and no one who's Jewish has tackled it, I'll roll up my sleeves...

[Colossus_500]

They aren't "strange" just much more observant in following the halachic code than conservative or reform Jews. I may not know much about Wicca, and am not Jewish, but THIS topic I do have some knowledge about.  If this thread is still around next week, and no one who's Jewish has tackled it, I'll roll up my sleeves...

Don't wait, bro.  Go ahead and drop some knowledge on us now.  I'm interested to know more, and I'm sure others are. 

[Deedee]

Don't wait, bro.  Go ahead and drop some knowledge on us now.  I'm interested to know more, and I'm sure others are. 

Unfortunately can't.  Too much work for the next few days.  It is a really interesting topic though, especially the importance the Jews place on following the divine oral and written commandments as related to Moses directly by G-D, and which include among many, food restrictions (keeping kosher). The Jews have a practical approach as opposed to our more ethereal idea of serving G-D. Hope the thread doesn't disappear. It's a very interesting subject, and I've always had questions as to how we Christians evolved from observing these same commandments... no one's ever really been able to answer me.

[Colossus_500]

Unfortunately can't.  Too much work for the next few days.  It is a really interesting topic though, especially the importance the Jews place on following the divine oral and written commandments as related to Moses directly by G-D, and which include among many, food restrictions (keeping kosher). The Jews have a practical approach as opposed to our more ethereal idea of serving G-D. Hope the thread doesn't disappear. It's a very interesting subject, and I've always had questions as to how we Christians evolved from observing these same commandments... no one's ever really been able to answer me.

it IS an interesting topic.  and I hope the thread doesn't die either.  i'll do some reading and then maybe ask some questions next week? 

[Deedee]

it IS an interesting topic.  and I hope the thread doesn't die either.  i'll do some reading and then maybe ask some questions next week? 

okay, me too.  lol, I'm sure it's not what Bast intended, but there you go...

[Migs]

i find most of the religions interesting.  When i was in Miami i would see many orthodoxjews there.  Atlanta also has them but i dont think in the same quanitites

[Butterbean]

Unfortunately can't.  Too much work for the next few days.  It is a really interesting topic though, especially the importance the Jews place on following the divine oral and written commandments as related to Moses directly by G-D, and which include among many, food restrictions (keeping kosher). The Jews have a practical approach as opposed to our more ethereal idea of serving G-D. Hope the thread doesn't disappear. It's a very interesting subject, and I've always had questions as to how we Christians evolved from observing these same commandments... no one's ever really been able to answer me.

Maybe it's because Christians believe Jesus is the Messiah and now we live in "an age of Grace" and don't have to keep the laws?  I don't know..... 

But I'm looking forward to more from you when you have more time DeeDee

Also may I ask ....when you type "G-D" I'm assuming you are referring to God.  Why do you type it like that?  Thanks

[YoMamaBeenLurking]

Perhaps typing G-D has something to do with writing or saying the Lord's name and what is allowed by her religion?  Maybe a respect issue?  Unsure. 

[Colossus_500]

Also may I ask ....when you type "G-D" I'm assuming you are referring to God.  Why do you type it like that?  Thanks

I noticed that too, STella?  DeeDee, I was wondering why you typed it that way.   

[Always Sore]

similar to how some people say gaww in stead of oh my god..lords name taken in vain and all that.i will always fully type Re:delete though.

[Tre]

Coolest Hasidic Jew in the world:

http://matismusic.com/

With respect to the 'old laws' and whatnot, there's one perspective that gets little airtime, because it makes so much sense...

Concerning the birth of Christianity, take a look at it as a businessperson.  Old Judaism was harsh and let's face it, the 'God' of the Old Testament was downright mean...often described in texts as 'jealous and angry'.  One of the primary tenets of religion is to separate believers from their money, and the old Jewish scare tactics were bad for business.  Who wanted to follow a god that would get all pissed off over silly stuff such as eating corn on Sundays or whatever?   

Contrast that god-figure to the 'God' of the New Testament and you're looking at a 180-degree change.  The new 'God' is 'merciful and loving'...so loving, in fact, that he'd sentence his own son to death just to save humanity from itself...a heart-wrenching tale, no doubt.  Guilt has always been a basic religious value, but under Christianity, it went to a whole new level - "Jesus died for you, the least you can do is give 10% of your income to the church...what kind of person are you??"

The new god-figure was flat out more attractive than the old one and it was a great public relations move by the Jewish scholars who created it.  The message has spread worldwide and they have hundreds of millions of followers, meaning hundreds of millions of people contributing to the various church coffers.   

[Deedee]

Maybe it's because Christians believe Jesus is the Messiah and now we live in "an age of Grace" and don't have to keep the laws?  I don't know..... 

But I'm looking forward to more from you when you have more time DeeDee

Also may I ask ....when you type "G-D" I'm assuming you are referring to God.  Why do you type it like that?  Thanks

I've heard that too...that when Jesus died for our sins, we were absolved from the old laws. I'm just not so sure...

The reason I was using G-D is because the orthodox do so, and I thought it was in keeping with the idea of this thread. The reason they do so is written in Deut. 12:3. It isn't about taking the name of the Lord in vain.  It has more to do with protecting the name of G-D from becoming erased or somehow defaced at some future time. Apparently writing His name over the internet is okay, but given the chance that it might be printed out, could risk a defacement at some later time.

BTW, I'm not Jewish.  I just grew up in a small English community, with many Jewish friends. Also, I lived in nyc for awhile and had many Jewish, observant friends there, and have been going to Seders (passover dinners) etc., since I was a kid.  Also, my ex was Jewish and wanted me to convert, so I did have Fridays with the Rabbi for about 3 months since I was interested in understanding. Ultimately I wouldn't and couldn't do it, ergo, the ex, but I did learn a lot and have some knowledge, and lots of anecdotal info...speak a little Yiddish too...

[Deedee]

Coolest Hasidic Jew in the world:

http://matismusic.com/

With respect to the 'old laws' and whatnot, there's one perspective that gets little airtime, because it makes so much sense...

...

...The new god-figure was flat out more attractive than the old one and it was a great public relations move by the Jewish scholars who created it.  The message has spread worldwide and they have hundreds of millions of followers, meaning hundreds of millions of people contributing to the various church coffers.   

Good point...and yeah, Matisyahu could be the coolest Hassid in the world. 

[Deedee]

The Hassidic movement was started in the 18th century as a response to the Polish/Ukraine pogroms.  A charismatic leader emerged, Ba'al Shem Tov, who essentially tried to rouse people into bringing the joy and spirituality back into serving G-d.

There are 613 commandments, or mitzvahs. These are both written and oral laws. Among the most important is giving anonymously.  But there are also laws which basically affect almost every minute of daily life.

Here are some of the things that seem strange to non-jews:

The clothes and the look:

Many people believe that the clothes are reminiscent of the time of Ba'al Shem Tov, and like the Amish, the community sets itself apart by wearing these clothes. The beard and side streamers are written about in the Old Testament, as in admonishments not to shave or cut the hair on the sides of the face. Sometimes you’ll see an outfit that seems even more over the top, with fur hat (streimel) and white hose. I’m not sure, but heard this garb is worn on Shabbat (sabbath) and other holy days because “a man should meet G-d dressed like a king.”

The reasons for wearing the kippah (skullcap) are too numerous to mention but many people believe: Cover your head in order that the fear of heaven may be upon you.

There's a much more complete explanation here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kippah

[Deedee]

Womanly Things:


Modesty is important, and from an early age, young girls wear long sleeves and below the knee skirts. When an orthodox woman marries, she cuts off her hair and continues to wear it almost buzzed.  She wears what’s called a scheidel, which means wig. It’s amazing how elaborate they can be. The good ones are made of human hair and cost a mini-fortune. I’ve never quite understood this one… in the Muslim faith a woman covers herself for the outside world, yet is beautiful for her husband, and here it’s reversed.  Also, in schul (synagog) there’s usually some kind of curtain or latticework that separates the men from the women.

The Mikvah

A mikvah is a ritual bath/place where a woman goes to cleanse herself  - renew herself spiritually - 7 days after her period. It’s looked at as the renewal of life and conncection with God. Like being born again and ready to conceive. If you ever drive past a mikvah you can see that there’s always a drum or cistern attached to the building which is designed to catch rain water, and at least some percentage of the water is supposed to be natural source. The mikvah is supposed to be performed at night, a woman goes in wearing no make-up, jewelry, or anything that might interfere with the water completely engulfing her. She’s not supposed to have sex until after the mikvah. A husband is technically not supposed to travel the day/night of her mikvah, or, she’s supposed to wait till he returns.

While a woman is having her period, she is considered impure.. That’s one of the reasons a Rabbi, observant man, won’t shake hands with a woman.  Some (most?) observant couples have two beds in the bedroom for this occasion. Of course, when you do the math, the acceptable time to have sex falls right smack at the time a woman becomes most fertile. 

(Admittedly, some of these things are disturbing to non-observant and non-jewish women...)

[Deedee]

Food

The rules regarding food are all indicated in the old Testament…the ban on shellfish, pork, etc… The Jews refer to the banned items as tref.

The law about not mixing dairy with meat comes from the admonishment to show  respect for all of G-d’s living things…”thou shalt not boil a kid in its mother’s milk.  So, no cheeseburgers. Also, meat is slaughtered a certain way, (at one time, probably much more humanely) with instruments that have been blessed by a Rabbi, and the blood is drained before the animal can be consumed. Fruits and vegetables are considered neutral and can be eaten with everything.

There’s supposed to be a 5-hour wait between a meat meal and consuming dairy, and 3 hours between a dairy meal and eating meat.  The idea has evolved to the point where observant Jews have two sets of cutlery (separate for meat and dairy), sometimes two fridges, and when in doubt, use plastic utensils and drink out of styrofoam cups. At home, any utensil that may have mixed must be sterilized. Actually, the diet itself is kind of good, probably cuts down on a lot of dairy consumption, except a lot of Jews end up eating non-dairy, chemical alternatives that are just not healthy.  And of course, it’s hard to live outside the community, travel etc…when you have these kinds of rules.

Random thoughts:

Although you don’t want to eat it all the time, Gefilte Fish is actually pretty good if you slather it with killer horseradish first.

Yes, you can make decent turkey stuffing during Passover using matzoh or potato flour.

(unleavened bread) Matzoh ====> Ex-lax   

The debate rages on whether the world’s best bagels are made in Montreal or at H&H Bagels in NYC.

[Deedee]

Sabbath (the keeping of)

Shabbat is the holiest day of the week and is observed from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown.  Observing it means not doing anything that could be considered work or having anything to do with making a profit. Also, there is a ban on “making a fire.”  (I read one text which stated that during the time people believed in demons, a fire was kept burning at all times to ward them off, and the elders were trying to dispel the belief.) It’s supposed to be a time for reflection and rest and giving joy to G-d. It’s considered a mitzvah to have sex on a Friday night.

So, because of the way electricity works, can’t use it.  The way around it is to keep a light burning, and massive quantities of food bubbling in the oven. (Most ovens have 24-48 hour auto shut-off.) No TV, internet, etc…

One is not supposed to carry money.

A big part of Shabbat is of course, going to Schul (synagog) so most observant Jews live nearby, since driving is out of the question (combustion > fire). Another way of keeping a tight-knit community. (There’s at least one high-rise hotel in Miami that keeps an elevator running non-stop on Shabbat, which keeps going up and down continuously and opens on every floor.)

I think that covers most of the things non-jews find strange or odd about observant Jews, but obviously barely scratches the surface of the why's or how's. Volumes and volumes have been written by scholars and holy people...

[Migs]

nice research deedee

[Deedee]

nice research deedee

Miggy, I didn't know you were interested in religion? Actually I didn't research any of it, besides providing the link for wikipedia...most of it is from memory, but I think it's pretty accurate.

[Migs]

oh in that case, an awesome set of posts.  I'm impressed.  I do find religion interesting, nhowever i find myself to be more spritual.  I don't tend to post much here, even though i do read many of the topics.