Keep negativity out of this thread : Why does not God just up and show himself.

[ToxicAvenger]

everyone has a right to their beliefs..sooo no bashing back n forth. Bashing = reveals insecurities .

and Guys keep the responces to 20 lines or less..no half page answers cause i just wont read em. Learn how to be concise and articulate.


simple question : Why dosen't God just show himself and get it over with. Everyone would believe then.

[Dos Equis]

everyone has a right to their beliefs..sooo no bashing back n forth. Bashing = reveals insecurities .

and Guys keep the responces to 20 lines or less..no half page answers cause i just wont read em. Learn how to be concise and articulate.


simple question : Why dosen't God just show himself and get it over with. Everyone would believe then.

Good question.  Don't really know the answer.  But I will say that the stories in the Bible show that people still doubted even after he showed Himself in different ways, e.g., Israelites many times, Jesus on earth raising people from the dead, performing other miracles, etc.  There will always be doubters.

[ToxicAvenger]

Good question.  Don't really know the answer.  But I will say that the stories in the Bible show that people still doubted even after he showed Himself in different ways, e.g., Israelites many times, Jesus on earth raising people from the dead, performing other miracles, etc.  There will always be doubters.

all i need is a face to appear out of the sky..a NON human (otherwise david copperfield could be god) ..and lets say split the moon in half and make a river flow backwards.

if there is a god should be no biggie for him

i'll be the most religious guy ever.


here is a prediction : the religious people will reply back with a " Faith"  answer.

[OzmO]

Why dosen't God just show himself and get it over with. Everyone would believe then.

If we get the "answers to the test" we would never benefit from the journey.

It's what we become as a result of a test of faith that defines our character

Out test is to find God inside us.

[Dos Equis]

all i need is a face to appear out of the sky..a NON human (otherwise david copperfield could be god) ..and lets say split the moon in half and make a river flow backwards.

if there is a god should be no biggie for him

i'll be the most religious guy ever.


here is a prediction : the religious people will reply back with a " Faith"  answer.

But that stuff basically happened and people still doubted.  For example, what if you were starving, out of money, and had no job, you pray and cheeseburgers start falling from the sky.  Would you be believe in whatever higher power you prayed to?  That's what happened with the Israelites and the "manna from heaven" when they were wandering around in the desert.  Or how about the parting of the red sea with stark raving mad soldiers hot on their heels?  Many of them still didn't "believe," once the going got tough again.

Nothing wrong with the "faith" answer.  Faith is used in lots of contexts.  I have faith in my co-workers, those who work for me, my friends, family.  I have faith in them because they have proved themselves to me.  

Many can say the same about a belief in God (or some other higher power).  If a person reads a promise in the Bible, acts accordingly, and sees results, then God has proved Himself to that person.  Faith only works if you some evidence IMO.    

[ToxicAvenger]

If we get the "answers to the test" we would never benefit from the journey.

It's what we become as a result of a test of faith that defines our character

Out test is to find God inside us.

what pray be the purpose of this test?

god defines whats good and bad. If god deemed so..whats good would be all of a sudden bad and vice versa.

so the underyling basis of whats character encompasses is defined by god also.

why make it so tough on us?

and tough in itself is defined by god..soo why make tough so painfull?

i've conered you my friend.



now dont get me wrong my man..between
1) dying and rotting away and being plant food
2) being good and going to heaven

i'd rather pick 2..i swear on allah i would (    )..man dont you think i'dc rather be the kinda person that thinks it dosen't end at death?? and there is a enchanting after life waiting for me.

i.in all honest conscience cant do it.its like believing in faries man.   

[OzmO]

But that stuff basically happened and people still doubted.  For example, what if you were starving, out of money, and had no job, you pray and cheeseburgers start falling from the sky.  Would you be believe in whatever higher power you prayed to?  That's what happened with the Israelites and the "manna from heaven" when they were wandering around in the desert.  Or how about the parting of the red sea with stark raving mad soldiers hot on their heels?  Many of them still didn't "believe," once the going got tough again.

Nothing wrong with the "faith" answer.  Faith is used in lots of contexts.  I have faith in my co-workers, those who work for me, my friends, family.  I have faith in them because they have proved themselves to me. 

Many can say the same about a belief in God (or some other higher power).  If a person reads a promise in the Bible, acts accordingly, and sees results, then God has proved Himself to that person.  Faith only works if you some evidence IMO.   

What makes it hard for people to understand is that these only were written in the Bible AND  since Christ GOD hasn't performed any miracles of that magnitude.

What tox is asking i think is why doesn't he just come out and say "I AM GOD" and reveal himself in way so there is no doubt.

which to me would spoil all the fun 

[ToxicAvenger]

oooo lots wrong with this...

But that stuff basically happened and people still doubted.  For example, what if you were starving, out of money, and had no job, you pray and cheeseburgers start falling from the sky.  Would you be believe in whatever higher power you prayed to?

 


nope..maybe a plane blew up overhead that ws carrying many cheeseburgers. unlikely but not umplausable.

a river flowing backward is unplausable and so proof to me.

That's what happened with the Israelites and the "manna from heaven" when they were wandering around in the desert.  Or how about the parting of the red sea with stark raving mad soldiers hot on their heels?  Many of them still didn't "believe," once the going got tough again.

i need proof that the red sea actually parted..not just reading from a book. if i google the ramayan which speaks of fire chariots that seems eerily close to what UFOs and planes flyingdescribes landing procuders..VERY close to how pilots land today..and this book is old)  as..would ou all of a sudden be hindu?

Nothing wrong with the "faith" answer.  Faith is used in lots of contexts.  I have faith in my co-workers, those who work for me, my friends, family.  I have faith in them because they have proved themselves to me.

 

EXACTLY..god has NOT proved him/her self to me.  

Many can say the same about a belief in God (or some other higher power).  If a person reads a promise in the Bible, acts accordingly, and sees results, then God has proved Himself to that person.  Faith only works if you some evidence IMO

.    

you r like many people born into a faith , assuming that christanity is the correct religion.
the muslims JUST LIKE YOU..believe they r right
so do the hindus
so do the parsis (they worship fire)

[OzmO]

what pray be the purpose of this test?

god defines whats good and bad. If god deemed so..whats good would be all of a sudden bad and vice versa.

so the underyling basis of whats character encompasses is defined by god also.

why make it so tough on us?

and tough in itself is defined by god..soo why make tough so painfull?

i've conered you my friend.

Stop trying to be llike Johnny!       just joking!


Do you have kids tox?

I test my children to help them build character. 

Same Principle.

As for good and bad....  that falls under the princile of "do on to others"  so in a sense "we"  define what is good and bad.

[ToxicAvenger]

What makes it hard for people to understand is that these only were written in the Bible AND  since Christ GOD hasn't performed any miracles of that magnitude.

What tox is asking i think is why doesn't he just come out and say "I AM GOD" and reveal himself in way so there is no doubt.

thanx..well put my man

which to me would spoil all the fun  

not to be an ass man but yeah..

the tsunami ws loads of fun...hey it ws God work..he controls the universe orrr did he allow the devil to do what he please? if so..why?

the starving kid sifting thru trash in pakistan in 120degree karachi weather thinks its awesome that he'll prolly die a long painfull death at 12...

God is soo compassionate  

[ToxicAvenger]

Stop trying to be llike Johnny!       just joking!

lol bite your tongue...

Do you have kids tox?

no..i'm not in love..  = no kids 

I test my children to help them build character. 

 do you ever try to cut em to learn em self control?  God does..hel he does worse. Ok i'm coming off as an ass but how do i put the above in polite words..i cant so..i must be harsh here..but no illwill intended.

As for good and bad....  that falls under the princile of "do on to others"  so in a sense "we"  define what is good and bad.

the 911 terrorists thought what they were doing ws good and right and proper and Gods work. Do we really define good and evil?

[OzmO]

lol bite your tongue...


no..i'm not in love..  = no kids 
 

 do you ever try to cut em to learn em self control?  God does..hel he does worse. Ok i'm coming off as an ass but how do i put the above in polite words..i cant so..i must be harsh here..but no illwill intended.


the 911 terrorists thought what they were doing ws good and right and proper and Gods work. Do we really define good and evil?

The terrorist action was a response to something they felt was done to them.  It wasn't a solo unprovoked act.  Also, "Fear" in general is the source of most actions that turn into bad things.

Re:  The Children...   I am their guide i don't ever throw something in their way that they can't handle. 

As far as the suffering:  If you believe in the afterlife. Suffering on earth is part of that "character building" that may include suffering and dying.  So if God throws something in your way that seems terminal or ends up that way, because you have life after death it doesn't matter.  I believe he won't throw anything at us that we can;t handle, now or in the afterlife.

[ToxicAvenger]

The terrorist action was a response to something they felt was done to them.  It wasn't a solo unprovoked act.  .

everything is a responce to something (damn i sound like jonny    )

Also, "Fear" in general is the source of most actions that turn into bad things

isn't the basis of religious goodness fear of hell??   

Re:  The Children...   I am their guide i don't ever throw something in their way that they can't handle.

 


well god does..either that or ya believe that  12 yr old barefoot girl(she had green eyes and red hair..afghani i think) with blisters..bruises ..starving ..and having to perform sexual favours for a piece of bread for 5 rupees (1 dollar = 75 rupees..it ws 60 rupees when  i saw what i an describing in 1990)..hmm i guess she could handle it...
i've seen this time and again..yanno what homeless people in Karachi ask for?  $...nope..they ask you to buy them food..and yanno whats sad to me..when you buy them food..you hear some of them whisper " allah is mercifull and alah shall provide" 
<btw  allah = god in arabic ..no matter what ya hear on fox..christian folks in dubai use the word alah in conversation..i've seen it )

As far as the suffering:  If you believe in the afterlife. Suffering on earth is part of that "character building" that may include suffering and dying.  So if God throws something in your way that seems terminal or ends up that way, because you have life after death it doesn't matter.  I believe he won't throw anything at us that we can;t handle, now or in the afterlife.

character and what it is is defined by god.
he deemed that suffering build character
pretty sadist set of rules if the rules themselves and the underlying physice behind those rules can be defined by you.

[OzmO]

Think of it like this Tox,

If there is an afterlife and we do live forever....

Then our life on earth is but twinkle in the infinity of time as we evolve as a spirit.

So as these times of extreme suffering occur they are but a pin prick when viewed in this perspective.

So perhaps the harder our life on earth is the more we grow as a spirit.

Where's my bong?  I'm having a hippie moment!  j/k

[Cavalier22]

you keep on mentioning how in the past god showed himself, raised people from teh dead etc and people still doubted him.  this is utter nonsense.  if you saw someone raised from the dead how could you not believe.  if bread was coming from the sky in a famine who woudl doubt god?  no one.  you are just coming up with mythical stories from an old book

[ToxicAvenger]

So perhaps the harder our life on earth is the more we grow as a spirit.

first plausablish explaination i have gotton for human suffering!

[Always Sore]

easy

by definition faith is the beliefe in something you can't spell,taste,touch,feel or see. if there is a big cloud with god floting on top and everybody went to him with there problems and he did miricles everyday soon there would be one religion based on miricles not faith. the free will man was given to chose to follow god or not is where the trouple lies. if the road to heven was a well marked path for all to see then everybody would in essence not "need" good for they could walk the path alone.

thus the choice to become a christian and follow a path and the beliefe in being filled by the holy spirt and in communion with god thru prayer these are all the signpost on a road that is offered to those that choose to believe and have faith but are invisiable to those that wait for the great miricle maker.

[ToxicAvenger]

so you'r justifying human suffering cause god needs "faith" to feel good about himself?

and if dosen't need faith then we need it?  i for sure dont.

faith is concept designed by god right?  wonder what the starving kid in somalia would say if i told him he's suffering and prolly gonnd die a long horrible death cause god needs us to have faith 

[Always Sore]

so you'r justifying human suffering cause god needs "faith" to feel good about himself?

and if dosen't need faith then we need it?  i for sure dont.

faith is concept designed by god right?  wonder what the starving kid in somalia would say if i told him he's suffering and prolly gonnd die a long horrible death cause god needs us to have faith 

human suffering is what happens with free will. god gave people the right to have faith or not.humans causing suffering to each other.his starving is a direct link to someone withholding food from him not god. god is not to blaim if you are born in a shitty world. you parents chose to have sex and live in a shitty place and thus you were brought into the world. if you chose god or not sufferiny does not change only what happens after you leave the world.

[Old Pig]

human suffering is what happens with free will. god gave people the right to have faith or not.humans causing suffering to each other.his starving is a direct link to someone withholding food from him not god. god is not to blaim if you are born in a shitty world. you parents chose to have sex and live in a shitty place and thus you were brought into the world. if you chose god or not sufferiny does not change only what happens after you leave the world.

thought this god of yours were omnipotent, omnipresent etc etc, so when those who turn to him would not suffer. if their suffering continues after having accepted Jesus as god's son, he's no more powerful than i am. have faith in me, pray to me etc and i'll probably offer you as much relief from your suffering as god will. always interesting to see how you interpret the 0.00001% success rate of prayers as god's intervention and a tremendous success but the other 99.99999% as "tough luck".

religion and communism, two sides of the same coin - belief systems invented by man to control man. best business idea ever - invent a "religion", just ask Ron Hubbard.

[ToxicAvenger]

you parents chose to have sex and live in a shitty place and thus you were brought into the world.

no god allowed my parents to have free will and bring me into a shitty world <and at least according to christian faith>

not only did he allow me to be born into a shitting place he gave me "original sin" to go along with it...

[Cavalier22]

free will??? no one ever asked me if i wanted to be born into this world (i know that kinda doesnt make sense but you know)

[Dos Equis]

No, it doesn't make sense.     Free will only comes into play when you are old and competent enough to know right from wrong and make independent decisions. 

[Al-Gebra]

Think of it like this Tox,

If there is an afterlife and we do live forever....

Then our life on earth is but twinkle in the infinity of time as we evolve as a spirit.

So as these times of extreme suffering occur they are but a pin prick when viewed in this perspective.

So perhaps the harder our life on earth is the more we grow as a spirit.

Where's my bong?  I'm having a hippie moment!  j/k

I like this response . . .

about the question, on one level, I think it must have something to do with choice. if God showed his face, we wouldn't have a choice.

but maybe "God" really doesn't give a shit about whether you believe in him, TA.

although I'm a churchgoer, i sometimes wonder about how "personal" the "God" is.  We want him to  do things for us, now . . . be someone we can relate to like a friend (and the Bible plays on this big time) . . . show his face, perform a miracle, etc.

but the Prime Mover (or whatever) of the Universe probably has bigger things on his/its plate. the Universe is huge and ancient and we're very small and insignificant in so many ways. even in the evolutionary sense. life on earth has its own imperatives, and as individuals we're not even aware of them. all we're worried about is stuff like getting laid and looking good and driving a nice car for the most part. and meanwhile, it all just keeps moving on. toward some obscure end . . .

but then again, they say that when a butterfly flaps its wings in China, it can cause a typhoon in the Southern Ocean. so maybe we do matter. or maybe the whole "butterfly effect" was just made up to make us feel better about ourselves. 

[freespirit]

To believe in the things you can see and touch is no believe at all. But to believe in the unseen is a triumph.

-- Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)