The State of Fighting Today

[realkarateblackbelt]

I am a black belt in the Shotokan style of Karate. My father was also a black belt in Kyokushin/Okinanwan Karate and instructed me privately. I think people lack discipline today in the fight world. Few people stick with an art long enough to master it and obtain a black belt. Maybe they don't like kata? Who knows? I think it's part of that MTV culture. You know short attention spans. Alot of these guys I see on Spike TV look like high school jocks that decided to do a cycle and work with an instructer for a few months. Suddenly they think they are martial artist. They also throw what I call "wrestler punches" It almost looks fake. When we trained we punched from the hip not with the arm. The effect of piviting the hips correctly is devasting power. I knew guys in the karate scene that could smash through cement blocks. This kind of power can only be achieved through proper technique. The steroid use is rampant. I see guys like Ken Shamrock that look just muscular sometimes, and other times they are red and Jacked! A heart attack waiting to happen. I am 6' and 255 and I never used steroids. Nobody I new did either. Sorry for my rant.

[Migs]

no worries. I agree with you that most people don't take the time to master an art.  On the flip side there are also many instructors that aren't worth anything and are in it for the money.  I wont get into the steriod part of it, but i do think that people try to mimick the moves and fly through the forms.  Soryy but my belief is that a 7 year old shouldt be a balck belt.  My instructor tortured us.  He broke us down and built us back up.  We trained outdoors, rain or shine,  wehter it was 40 degrees or a nice summer day of 100 degrees.  he made us tough and made sure that he oushed us.  Todays instructors are too worried about applauding little johnny and making the parents happy.

[texasRUSH]

depends on your reasons for learning the art in the first place...to be a fighter...or for an over all well rounded discipline!


*shrug*

you get where i'm coming from

[c-u-n-hell]

Most schools that focus of MMA dont really use a belt system in the first place, if you think about it what does a belt mean. There is no way a 17 year old black belt can defeat a 27 year old man with  some training. You cant rely on a belt system to determine your skill level

[texasRUSH]

most people now adays want to learn one thing....and that's fighting..not an art

doing forms over and over again is very boring to most..and will run hte typical rec fighter/person off


why do most people join dojos and clubs?  one reason..self defense and fighting...kicking air and throwing mock punches all day long is like going to the driving range and working on your golf swing

effective to a point.

[Migs]

that's why it is important to geat a good sifu.teacher.  Mine taught use primarily WC, but had us spar with other fighting styles and also should us things he fuund effective and that could be incorporated if need be,

[Capt._America]

No offense but belts are for pussies and wanna be's, I have trained Ju-jit-su for years, since was in the military, found a great gym when I got out, now we do mma, no belts, we just train and learn, my teacher does not believe in belts, says the same thing, so wear you cute little belts, I will beat your ass in the ring or on the mat anytime

[Migs]

my sifu said that the belt st hey give out are only good for keeping your pants on.  Think about it.  a seven year old black belt against an 18 year old black belt. Same rank?  no way.  At 7 you barely can grasp the effect of martial arts.

[alexxx]

hahaha I love those fools that talk about their martial arts rank while I punch them once and they fly to jupiter.


Here is a clue: black belt is actually a beginer's belt. Thats when you start to learn.



Men on to of Men Action

FAGS

[realkarateblackbelt]

Alexxx, I bet you feel like a real tuff guy. Most likely you are some 16 year old kid. I was a kid once too. I wouldn't beat your ass if I saw you I would just scare  you that's all.

[alexxx]

Alexxx, I bet you feel like a real tuff guy. Most likely you are some 16 year old kid. I was a kid once too. I wouldn't beat your ass if I saw you I would just scare  you that's all.

Your gonna use your jedi tricks on me?

[Oldschool Flip]

I think people lack discipline today in the fight world.

I truly doubt that you know what kind of conditioning it takes to compete in the UFC, Pride, and other MMA tournaments.

Few people stick with an art long enough to master it and obtain a black belt. Maybe they don't like kata? Who knows?

What if it's too expensive? What do you charge on a monthly basis for someone who trains once a week?

When we trained we punched from the hip not with the arm. The effect of piviting the hips correctly is devasting power. I knew guys in the karate scene that could smash through cement blocks. This kind of power can only be achieved through proper technique.

What kills me is whenever ANYONE says they can do this, it's in a SET SCENARIO. You look to make that punch or strike because it is set up. Real world, you can get jacked from behind at anytime, and if you're getting pummeled on the ground there is no real effective way to strike using your hips.

The steroid use is rampant.

Where's your source for this info?

I am 6' and 255 and I never used steroids.

If you aren't on steroids, at those stats you sound kinda fat.

[realkarateblackbelt]

I agree. Lidell throws wild punches. He's not very technical at all. It seems like he relies on throwing out as many shots as possible until something lands.

[realkarateblackbelt]

I truly doubt that you know what kind of conditioning it takes to compete in the UFC, Pride, and other MMA tournaments.What if it's too expensive? What do you charge on a monthly basis for someone who trains once a week? What kills me is whenever ANYONE says they can do this, it's in a SET SCENARIO. You look to make that punch or strike because it is set up. Real world, you can get jacked from behind at anytime, and if you're getting pummeled on the ground there is no real effective way to strike using your hips.Where's your source for this info? If you aren't on steroids, at those stats you sound kinda fat.

You wouldn't throw a karate punch from the ground.....although watching some of these UFC fights, I've seen many oppourtunities to 'jerk' the body for more power on the ground. These arm punches that I see all the time on the UFC (less so on Pride) are relatively weak. The hip punch is meant to be a knock out punch. You set it up with a jab, shift into a more powerful stance and then deliver it.

[anabol-lektor]

I bet he instructed u private you HOMO

[Oldschool Flip]

You wouldn't throw a karate punch from the ground.....although watching some of these UFC fights, I've seen many oppourtunities to 'jerk' the body for more power on the ground. These arm punches that I see all the time on the UFC (less so on Pride) are relatively weak. The hip punch is meant to be a knock out punch. You set it up with a jab, shift into a more powerful stance and then deliver it.

We can debate this all day, but there is still not yet a "standup martial artist" in either the UFC or Pride that can go with traditional martial arts forms and win in the ring today. Most fighters today have a background in grappling, wrestling, muay thai, or bjj. Face it, Karate, Kenpo, Wing Chun are great "art" forms, but in competitive fighting they fail miserably.

[Oldschool Flip]

The steroid use is rampant.

You still DID NOT provide where you got this info.

I am 6' and 255 and I never used steroids.

You claimed not to be "fat" at these stats. Post a pick and let us determine your bf %.

[realkarateblackbelt]

Ever hear of And Hug or Bas Rutten? Both Kyokushin Karate fighters.
Andy hug was K-1 champ until he died. He beat all the kickboxers silly.

Thai boxing is easier to get into and compete with, because it's easy to learn but difficult to master. If you stay with the Karate long enough it pays off. BTW, since when is Thai boxing not a traditional art? The kicks are all the same as karate - the difference is mainly the stances. Karate has all the kicks they use in Thai boxing and more.

Andy Hug was born on 7th September 1964 in the small village of Wohlen in Switzerland. Because his mother was unable to care for him, Andy was immediately given up for adoption. Andy Hug spent the first years of his life in an orphanage, until his grandmother took over his care when he was three years old. It has been said that Andy's home situation brought on mocking and bullying from his classmates. When a friend of Andy's introduced him to the local Karate dojo, (he was only 10 years old at the time) Andy began taking karate lessons so he could fight back. Andy quickly became so good that the Swiss Karate Federation bent the rules to allow the teenaged sensation to compete with adults for the All Switzerland Karate Championship. Andy won the tournament easily.

Andy was only 19 years old when he fought in Japan for the first time, at the Kyokushin 3rd World Open Tournament in 1983. Andy was a newcomer and a young talent, and he impressed the whole world with his unique fighting skills and technique. Four years later, at the 4th Kyokushin World Open in 1987, Andy made it to the finale by easily defeating big fighters like Masuda from Japan and Ademir da Costa from Brazil - both of whom have passed the ultimate test in Kyokushin, the 100 men kumite.

The 4th World Open final was a fight against the two best technical fighters ever in the history of Kyokushin: Matsui and Andy. It was the first time ever that a non-Japanese fighter was in a World Open finale, and today Kyokushin karate-ka and fight lovers around the world still talk about the big finale, and about the outcome and the result. But no matter the result, Andy opened a new area for European and western fighters, and showed the world that by hard training and true skills, anybody can become a champion. To a lot of people, Andy was the true winner of the finale, and should have been the champion of the 4th World Open Tournament.

One year later, on 17th September 1988, a special Kyokushin karate event was held in Sursee in Switzerland. It was the 1st International Super-Cup, which had been organized by the Swiss Karate Association. Kyokushin competitors from Japan, Great Britain, the Netherlands, Hungary, Germany and Spain fought in the tournament. Before the vice-world champion, Andy Hug was to fight against Kenji Midori from Japan in the finale (Kenji Midori became the 5th Kyokushin World Open Champion in 1991); Andy defeated Siegfried Elson from the Netherlands in the semi-finale. The most exciting fight of the evening was undeniably the finale between Andy Hug and Kenji Midori. After two extension rounds, Andy Hug was declared as the winner of the fight and the Tournament.

In 1989, Andy Hug became Kyokushin European Champion in the Heavyweight Division for the second time. Andy was a superior European champion, and he was so popular that he traveled around the countries of Europe as a special guest instructor at Kyokushin summer camps to teach the art of knock down karate. Before Andy Hug left Kyokushin karate in 1992, to fight for Seidokaikan Karate and in the K-1, he fought against the best fighters and the biggest names in the history of Kyokushin, and only lost a very few fights. Even though it has been more than 8 years since Andy Hug left the Kyokushin karate organization, Andy is still remembered and respected as a superstar and idol for many Kyokushin members - as the true champion that he was for more than a decade in Japan and around the world.

The same year Andy Hug left the Kyokushin organization, he became World Open Champion in Seido karate, by wining the finale against Taiei Kin on 5-0 judge decision. One year later, in 1993, Andy was again in the finale in the Seido World Cup, by wining on TKO against the famous fighter Nobukai Kakuda in the opening rounds. The finale was a fight against the Japanese champion Masaaki Satake. It was a finale where Andy Hug controlled the fight from start to finish! Andy even hit Satake in the face with his famous axe kick so hard that Satake went down. But fighting against the national hero and champion, Andy was fighting against uneven odds, and he lost the fight and the finale on tameshiwari after three extension rounds. But he won the heart of the Japanese people, and got the nickname: The samurai with blue eyes.

It was also in 1993 that Andy Hug started his K-1 career. On 5th November 1993, Andy had his debut in the K-1 against Ryuji Murakami, a fight that Andy won by TKO in the first round, after he knocked out Ryuji three times in only 50 seconds. Andy Hug became a superstar from Hokkaido to Okinawa. But it was not only his famous axe-kick, super strength and his sublime technique that made him the people's choice, it was his spirit and warmth that earned him the deep respect of his opponents and the deep love of his fans.

In Japan Andy Hug received the title of "Samurai" which is a distinction of great honor. Kancho Ishii, the promoter of the K-1 in Japan tells: "The reason why the people in Japan like Andy so much is because he owns something that the Japanese respects: a big heart, generosity, strength and a will of iron."

Since Andy Hug was a young boy, he was inspired from the "Rocky" movie to train passionately in his quest to become a World Champion. Andy became a champion - many times. Andy did take on the world, working through Kyokushin and Seidokaikan karate. In 1996, Andy Hug's determination netted him the title

He died from Leukemia on August 24, 2000 in Japan.

Sebastian (Bas) Rutten (February 24, 1965 -) is a retired Dutch mixed martial arts fighter. He was a three time Undefeated Pancrase champion and a former Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) Heavyweight Champion. He is a Certified MTBN Thai Boxing Instructor and Pancrase Instructor. He is a 3rd Degree Black Belt in Kyokushin and a 2nd Degree Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do. He is the founder of "The Bas Rutten System" and the author of various martial art books and videos.

Rutten is currently involved in movie projects, teaching at martial arts seminars and coaching the Anacondas team in the International Fight League. His team was defeated by the Silverbacks 4-1, with the only win coming from Alex Schoenauer who participated in The Ultimate Fighter Season 1. He is rumored to be fighting Kimo Leopoldo in the World Fighting Alliance on July 22, 2006. The event will be available live on pay-per-view.

Contents [hide]
1 Biography
2 Record
3 Filmography
4 Books and videos authored
5 See also
6 External links
6.1 Videos
 


[edit]
Biography
Born in Tilburg, the Netherlands, Bas Rutten became interested in martial arts when he was 14 after watching Enter the Dragon, taking up Tae Kwon Do but soon changing to Kyokushin Karate, where he competed in bareknuckle full contact karate tournaments. At the age of 20 he started competing in Thai boxing although he credits kyokushin karate as the base of his striking skills. Starting as a good striker and later on learning submission fighting, Rutten implemented a well balanced mixture of many techniques. Rutten's only losses came to Frank Shamrock, Ken Shamrock, and Masa Funaki. He avenged his losses to Frank Shamrock and Masa Funaki in rematches, and went undefeated for his last 22 fights.

[oldtimer1]

I suggest that guys that spent a lot of time on katas to get into the ring and fight.  Just have at traditional boxing match.  It will open your eyes.  After that just have one submission wrestling match. It will change the way you think of what real martial arts are. 

[realkarateblackbelt]

I suggest that guys that spent a lot of time on katas to get into the ring and fight.  Just have at traditional boxing match.  It will open your eyes.  After that just have one submission wrestling match. It will change the way you think of what real martial arts are. 

In Kyokushin they spar all the time. Of course you can't do Kata alone. I suggest guys that think karate is not effective take a Mas Oyama full contact karate class. Or ask Bas Rutten about it. Or Andy Hug if was living. Nobody said you shouldn't learn BJJ for the ground. I'm talking about standup. A Kyokushin fighter would kill a boxer.

[Oldschool Flip]

Ever hear of And Hug or Bas Rutten? Both Kyokushin Karate fighters.
Andy hug was K-1 champ until he died. He beat all the kickboxers silly.

When both competed in the Kyokushin art, MMA was not even around.  They both competed against people IN THE SAME ARTS, not MMA until later after they left. 

Thai boxing is easier to get into and compete with, because it's easy to learn but difficult to master. If you stay with the Karate long enough it pays off. BTW, since when is Thai boxing not a traditional art? The kicks are all the same as karate

Absolutely NOT! How many Thai Boxers have axe kicks in there arsenal? LOL, dude you need to go back and rethink what you say before you post it.

And you still haven't addressed the previous questions. Can you only "concentrate" on 1 question at a time?

[realkarateblackbelt]

I hate to say it OSF but you are coming off kind of dense. I already said the kicks are the same + they have more. An aggressive karate fighter(meaning someone that spars and does full contact like Kyokushin) like Andy Hug can quickly make the transition and compete against K-1 fighters because he already knows all their kicks(although his form will be better) and he has even more kicks at his disposal on top of that (axe kick, side kick, back kick, front kick, crescent kick, for example). Kickboxers use three primary kicks - low, middle, and high roundhouse. A karate fighter also uses these.

[realkarateblackbelt]

"When both competed in the Kyokushin art, MMA was not even around.   They both competed against people IN THE SAME ARTS, not MMA until later after they left."

You should learn a ground are too (wrestling or JJ)
Bas still had a third degree black belt when he competed in MMA. He credits his striking power to Kyokushin Karate according to Wiki.

Andy Hug was competing in standup MMA against kickboxers, thai, etc. Defeated them all. K-1 = karate/kickboxing/kung fu

[Oldschool Flip]

realkarateblackbelt you crack me up! Have you ever taken Mauy Thai? My bet is no because you are "ingrained" in your martial arts philosophy. Every MMA, K-1, and Pride fighter has a background in some martial arts or wrestling, but you are of the frame of mind that ONLY IF THEY KNEW KARATE they would be effective. Get over it dude. Karate is GREAT FOR YOU, but is not the MAIN ART FORM in true competitive fighting. You can "ha" and "Hee" your way through a Kata or weapons competition, but the majority of the world knows that any "Martial Artist", who uses traditional fighting arts, would LOSE to an MMA fighter. It's been proven in UFC, K-1, and Pride.

[realkarateblackbelt]

realkarateblackbelt you crack me up! Have you ever taken Mauy Thai? My bet is no because you are "ingrained" in your martial arts philosophy. Every MMA, K-1, and Pride fighter has a background in some martial arts or wrestling, but you are of the frame of mind that ONLY IF THEY KNEW KARATE they would be effective. Get over it dude. Karate is GREAT FOR YOU, but is not the MAIN ART FORM in true competitive fighting. You can "ha" and "Hee" your way through a Kata or weapons competition, but the majority of the world knows that any "Martial Artist", who uses traditional fighting arts, would LOSE to an MMA fighter. It's been proven in UFC, K-1, and Pride.

Once again I'm talking about standup fighting. K-1 is standup MMA and Andy Hug(Kyokushin Karate fighter) was the champion until he died. So you have been proven wrong again. I'm always refering to full-contact karate. Not "self-defense" courses at the mini-mall.