Author Topic: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?  (Read 26381 times)

ribonucleic

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #175 on: June 08, 2006, 02:04:20 PM »
Professor 240 has spoken.  My consulting fee will be in the mail.

I do have one question, Professor....

Conceding that the IFBB is sleazy enough to try and jack up PDI's shit with money on the line, it's still not clear to me where the "millions" figure you've mentioned twice now is coming from.

The shows surely aren't throwing off that much scratch. So is it sponsorship income? Are the former Weider magazines involved somehow?

I'm sorry if this is an ignorant question. I'm sincerely curious.


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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #176 on: June 08, 2006, 02:09:49 PM »
Conceding that the IFBB is sleazy enough to try and jack up PDI's shit with money on the line, it's still not clear to me where the "millions" figure you've mentioned twice now is coming from.
The shows surely aren't throwing off that much scratch. So is it sponsorship income? Are the former Weider magazines involved somehow?
I'm sorry if this is an ignorant question. I'm sincerely curious.

Pro Bbing is a million+ dollar industry.  Supps, mags, shows, internet, and whatever comes next.  Anyone know what Joe, ben, and Manion, are worth? Anyone know what AMI's BBing publication division is going for these days?  I don't really wanna go opening up 10k's and doing research, but I am quite sure it is way up there.

Besides, people play dirty tricks for much smaller industries.

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #177 on: June 08, 2006, 02:24:33 PM »
Kevin, your last two posts have been mocking and very negative.  I gave you 3 posts with cold logic and real-life implications of shooting your marketing load too early.

The athletes who are interested in doing the shows have been encouraged to contact Wayne.  He is giving them the info they need to do shows.  Kevin, when you choose to enter a PDI qualifier, I am sure that Wayne will give you that information too.  

Kevin, listen man, let's take the insults out of this.  We're both better than that... Sorry I went there, and I plan not to again.

Kevin, you're a photographer.  I do not claim to know your business training, your experience in competition strategy, or your skill in market delivery of a product or service.  If I wanted to know if Nikon owns HP in megapixels, I'm calling you.  

However, I do not think you do not have a great understanding of how competition works in America.  Here, if Company A learns about Company B's future plans... and B can steal market share and resources/athletes/fans from A resulting in losses of million of $ and possibly overtake A as the monopoly eventually... then A is going to attempt to stop B.

The first response methods might be as simple as sending its employees on boards to bash B.  To start rumors about B's shows being cancelled.  To attack the character of B's mgmt team.  To even start pissing matches with B's outsourced labor, like 240.  This is knee jerk PR reaction.

Next, A will secure its own resources.  Send memos and Chics out to pass the message that A is strong, B is weak, and leaving A for B will be punished.  This is happening now. A will also secure promoters, photogs, web guys, sponsors, expo personnel, and anyone else who B might be using to make the event a success.  This is defending your entrenched position.

Then, and this is the case when millions of dollars on the line, A will develop greater plans to defend their industry position.  They will give money to vendors to be unavailable that week.  They will try to secure infrastructural resources which B will need. They will do other things, but I don't wanna give them any more ideas lol... This, of course, is A's attempt to attack B's "railroad", so that B is too busy putting out small supply fires to attack A any more, which subsequently stifles growth)0

Horton, you're a great photographer.  However, I do think that your immediate dismissal of any notion that the IFBB would utilize a few strategic moves (read: dirty tricks) to keep their position is, well, laughable.  People with the intelligence to get millions of dollars are typically bright enough to know how to defend those millions of dollars.  

Professor 240 has spoken.  My consulting fee will be in the mail.


Ok, I'm more than happy to keep out the personal insults.
If we were discussing the launch of a new razor I would accept what you are saying. But we are not we are dealing with a bodybuilding show. A one day event that requires as much forward publicity as possible to entice both athletes, sponsors and fans.

Let's discuss your "first response methods". I'll assume that you mean me by "it's employees"?
1. I am not an employee of Weider, AMI or the IFBB. If you look back over my postings, I doubt you'll find any that shows me supporting them when people "bash" them.
2. I never said the show was cancelled. Given the fact that there was no information available and we are less than 12 weeks away, don't you think it might be? You talk to Wayne regularly, yet you didn't even know about it, even going as far as to call me a liar!
3. Other than Wayne and Charles Blake I don't know their management team. I have always said that I liked Wayne. When someone posted a horrid flyer, I said I doubted Charles had anything to do with it, because he is a very talented designer.
4. You want to end the "pissing match" then show me some respect and accept that I'm able to make my own opinions. You call me an IFBBTool, I'll maintain you wear Wayne's collar.

As for your other theories, how come we can know about the NOC which is rreally the PDI's flagship show but not a qualifier?

Thank you for the compliment but Sebastiao Salgado is a "great photographer", I just get paid ;D


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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #178 on: June 08, 2006, 02:36:40 PM »
Pro Bbing is a million+ dollar industry.  Supps, mags, shows, internet, and whatever comes next.  Anyone know what Joe, ben, and Manion, are worth? Anyone know what AMI's BBing publication division is going for these days?  I don't really wanna go opening up 10k's and doing research, but I am quite sure it is way up there.

Besides, people play dirty tricks for much smaller industries.


Professional bodybuilding as a sport is not a multi million dollar business, it's a very small part of a billion dollar one.
Look at it this way.
Let's assume the PDI has 20 shows next year apart from the NOC.
Wayne, as the head of the organisation will get 200,000 in sanction fees.
The athletes will share a total purse of around $600,000
So 20 promoters have to raise $40K each just to pay those 2 amounts.
Then there's halls. advertising, staff etc. etc. - another $20K plus.
So they have to raise at least $60K from sponsors and ticket sales.
Most don't.


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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #179 on: June 08, 2006, 02:37:53 PM »

 To even start pissing matches with B's outsourced labor, like 240. 

You've claimed to NOT work for PDI.

What work is it that you do for PDI, and how long have you been doing it?

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kmhphoto

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #180 on: June 08, 2006, 02:47:44 PM »
Then, and this is the case when millions of dollars on the line, A will develop greater plans to defend their industry position.  They will give money to vendors to be unavailable that week.  They will try to secure infrastructural resources which B will need. They will do other things, but I don't wanna give them any more ideas lol... This, of course, is A's attempt to attack B's "railroad", so that B is too busy putting out small supply fires to attack A any more, which subsequently stifles growth)0

Professor 240 has spoken.  My consulting fee will be in the mail.

Do you also know the results of next weeks lottery?
That reads almost exactly how I imagine Press Release 14 will.

"Sorry Folks
Show's cancelled due to someone playing dirty tricks on me.
But everything is going to plan, we have our own timetable and we will not be rushed"

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #181 on: June 08, 2006, 03:28:30 PM »

Kevin - is Wayne really planning to charge promoters $10,000 per show just for the privilege of staging a PDI event??

kmhphoto

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #182 on: June 08, 2006, 03:32:03 PM »
Kevin - is Wayne really planning to charge promoters $10,000 per show just for the privilege of staging a PDI event??

That's what he said.

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #183 on: June 08, 2006, 03:34:36 PM »
You've claimed to NOT work for PDI.
What work is it that you do for PDI, and how long have you been doing it?

Jack London contacted me a few months back - said he was announcing his intentions and wanted to do it in style.  I had already made and sold a PDI fan site, so I had been following the new federation a bit.  I liked his Rhino moniker and the fact that he was going to be the first name to go.  

Soon, Rhino was an everyday name and I took on more PDI clients.  I was contacted about building a radio voice to let the world get to know the PDI guys and to share info about it, so I am doing that.  

This week, I'm building a site for an IFBB guy, a PDI guy, a horse vet, a male model, etc.  I am an outsourced consultant who delivers a product for a price.  I hope the PDI and the IFBB both do well.

ribonucleic

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #184 on: June 08, 2006, 03:37:23 PM »
"Sorry Folks
Show's cancelled due to someone playing dirty tricks on me"

The IFBB is going to hire those guys who were going to disrupt the wedding of Ross Perot's daughter.

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #185 on: June 08, 2006, 04:05:34 PM »
Kevin - is Wayne really planning to charge promoters $10,000 per show just for the privilege of staging a PDI event??

That sounds fcuked up.

Reminds me of another organisation too...

Where DeMilia ran the show and fcuked up things.

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Zack
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Tre

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #186 on: June 08, 2006, 04:24:06 PM »
That's what he said.

$10,000 per license doesn't leave me with a warm, fuzzy feeling. 

I think $1000 is a much more reasonable number in year one.

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #187 on: June 08, 2006, 06:17:32 PM »
I've tweaked Bob more than once on this board. So I think I'm immune from any accusations of teabagging-the-pro when I point out that you don't need to be an "IFBB stooge" (or however else you want to invalidate Bob's criticisms) to be dismissive of the PDI.

I state again for the record: I hope the PDI flourishes. I hope it teaches the IFBB a sorely needed lesson and proves a fount of riches for the builders. But until it puts more on the table than Wayne DeMilia's "credibility" and a free Yahoo e-mail address, you'll pardon my skepticism.

Bob is easily "tweaked" as you put it.

the problem with Bob is the fact that he is doing his job i.e. promoting the IFBB, dicrediting any competition,
it is simply the fact that he does all that and then claims to be some kind of unbiased rebel, who defends all the athletes he represents
which is clearly not so.


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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #188 on: June 08, 2006, 06:58:23 PM »
the problem with Bob is the fact that he is doing his job i.e. promoting the IFBB, dicrediting any competition,
it is simply the fact that he does all that and then claims to be some kind of unbiased rebel, who defends all the athletes he represents
which is clearly not so.

The athlete's rep should have NO affilation with the IFBB.  They cannot exert any control of him when that is the case.

When you have the IFBB athlete's rep getting controversial victories in newly created shows run by the man who the athletes must negotiate with, there is a problem.

A true athlete's rep would be a retired guy, or better yet, a laywer with no professional or personal history/connection with the IFBB brass.  He would unite the athletes and damand pay scales, health insurance, and other goodies that the current guy likes to talk about... but...

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #189 on: June 09, 2006, 12:06:55 AM »
Did someone mention Gillette.  Here is a major commercial campaign for the new Gillette Probak II.  Yes they do advertising and I was lucky enough to help them and many other companies market and advertise their product or service and get paid a whole lot of money.  Kevin you are a photographer and thats it.  I am a marketeer and have been doing it since 1987. 

I have been thinking about the PDI and everything else.  I see why some of you may be a little skeptical and some of you hope it fails big time.  Me on the other hand even if I am a little skeptical, I am still willling to gut it out and support Wayne cause I think what he is doing is good.  If it succeeds then it will be one more thing I can say I was a part of from the beginning and supported it the WHOLE way.  Unlike what most (esepcially Kevin and Issac) will do and suck up ONLY if it becomes successful.

The other side of the coin is, if it fails at least Wayne did try to do something instead of sitting back and only talking about it.  Me included, at least I am willing to do something instead of just typing bullshit on the internet.  Kevin so far all you are is a talker.  You have absolutely NO actions to back yourself up.  At least Issac has help promote and was involved with a show.  You have done nothing.  If the PDI fails I tried along with Wayne.  I may lose a few grand here and there but it is worth it. 

And when you ask about any other PDI show I truly have no idea.  There are only 2 shows I care about right now and that is the NOC and my show if I do it.  Those are what I know about. 

And to tell you the truth I really think the NOC should have been the "kick-off event" for the PDI.

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #190 on: June 09, 2006, 01:13:26 AM »
Did someone mention Gillette.  Here is a major commercial campaign for the new Gillette Probak II.  Yes they do advertising and I was lucky enough to help them and many other companies market and advertise their product or service and get paid a whole lot of money.  Kevin you are a photographer and thats it.  I am a marketeer and have been doing it since 1987. 

I have been thinking about the PDI and everything else.  I see why some of you may be a little skeptical and some of you hope it fails big time.  Me on the other hand even if I am a little skeptical, I am still willling to gut it out and support Wayne cause I think what he is doing is good.  If it succeeds then it will be one more thing I can say I was a part of from the beginning and supported it the WHOLE way.  Unlike what most (esepcially Kevin and Issac) will do and suck up ONLY if it becomes successful.

The other side of the coin is, if it fails at least Wayne did try to do something instead of sitting back and only talking about it.  Me included, at least I am willing to do something instead of just typing bullshit on the internet.  Kevin so far all you are is a talker.  You have absolutely NO actions to back yourself up.  At least Issac has help promote and was involved with a show.  You have done nothing.  If the PDI fails I tried along with Wayne.  I may lose a few grand here and there but it is worth it. 

And when you ask about any other PDI show I truly have no idea.  There are only 2 shows I care about right now and that is the NOC and my show if I do it.  Those are what I know about. 

And to tell you the truth I really think the NOC should have been the "kick-off event" for the PDI.

So what exactly was your part in the launch of Gillette's new product? Apart from wearing a stupid outfit?
Do you have any other OLD photographs to show, they're fascinating. That one must be 20 years old!
Next you'll be telling me that you helped Applle market their products. God they must have sold millions of computers based on the less than one second you appeared on camera?
Your abilities as a show promoter are a matter of record so I won't comment on that. I just hope Wayne knows.

If you don;t know anything about other PDI shows, then don't make yourself look foolish by calling someone a liar when they ask questions about one that Wayne has announced. Was he lying?

Now we could go on and on bashing each other but it get's tedious to both write and read, so let's draw a line in the sand and see if we can have an adult discussion?

So, as you mentioned that you are now helping Wayne promote the PDI do you think Waynes statement that older athletes are not marketable is a positive one?
Do you think the judges could be swayed by this decision and not place poeple like Jack London, Vince Taylor, Jack Stinton etc.in the top 3 and show preference to younger guys?

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #191 on: June 09, 2006, 03:32:13 AM »
First appearing in a commercial is being part of the advertising campaign.  When you are the one picked by executives and casting personel over 100's and in some instances thousands of other people then you are part of the advertising campaign that they have spent thousands of dollars creating.  And my one second in that Apple commercial was a huge deal considering they re-wrote the entire commercial to fit me in.  And that commercial was HUGE production and was released during the World Series.  And don't make fun of me bringing back memories of what I did in my past.  For god sakes you take pictures.  that is the staple for memories.  Pictures are used by everyone to capture the moment so they can re-live their memories forever.  So, making fun of me posting my memories is taking a stab at yourself.

Now for the more serious issues.  I think anyone is marketable in the right way.  Jack is 38 and not a youngster but he is marketable because of his look, his attitude, the fact that he holds a fulltime job while competing in BB as a hobby. He is a college graduate and looks pretty damm good for a guy who trains part time while working full time.  Unlike most other pros who have to depend on BB for their income, Jack does not.  He is a perfect person to help promote BB to people.  He shows people that some BB are not dumb and that BB can be a good hobby.  Lee may be older but defintiely not "out".  He is still one of the most popular BB in the world.  Vince Taylor too is very popular worldwide.  Vince is going to bring muscularity and motion together and perform the best posing routines ever seen.  It is inevitable tha Vince will bring down the house at every show he does.  And we will have a Best Poser Award.  We are working on things right now just for that part of the show.

I do know Wayne is trying to appeal to the younger generation and trying to get the girl groupies back into BB.  Many girls used to go to shows back in the day.  They would go as groups not just with their boyfriends.  Wayne is trying to get guys who are big, muscular and good looking so that the appeal to the masses will be greater.  But, he also has a mix of all kinds.  I do know he wants to stay away from the gut and overly huge guys like Ronnie.  Frey is the perfect example of being good looking, big as hell and ripped.  He is the PDI's answer to Gunter.

Wayne is picking some great judges.  They know BB and they know what to look for.  Wayne I am sure will allow judging to be equal for everyone.  If Vince looks the best in the show then he will win.  Same with Jack, or Lee or whoever else in competing.  From what it appears there will be between 20 and 35 competitors at the NOC.  Europe will be in the house big time at the NOC.  And their are some South Americans too.  SO there are going to be allot of great bodies and anyone can win.  Everyone is picking Lee to win easy,  Don't be so sure.  Lee is probably the favorite going in but when everyone sees who else is competing the field will immeditely be leveled.

And I may not know much about the other shows but it is because I chose too.  Wayne has told me about the other shows.  But it is not my place to say anything.  When the time is right Wayne will announce.  SO far everything he has told me 6 months ago that was going to happen has come true.  EVERYTHING.  So as of right now there is no reason for me to think otherwise.  And you say no advertising he has done.  He does as much as the Olympia and even more.  Does the Olympia send out monthly newsletters mailed directly to BB fans keeping people informed whats happening.  The NOC has ads in two major US magazines starting this month plus interviews.  Plus European mags.  Plus all the exposure the PDI receves on every BB board in the world.  EVen the bad shit said about it is still good cause people are talking. Thats all that counts.

This was nice

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #192 on: June 09, 2006, 04:05:51 AM »
And my one second in that Apple commercial was a huge deal considering they re-wrote the entire commercial to fit me in. 

What did they have to rewrite? It's a less than one second clip of footage. Even taking into consideration they probably would not have the benefits of a non-linear system - I guess it was done pre Avid? - It would have taken 5 minutes.

Keith, we are probably all guilty of bolstering up our past, but you're going over board now ;D

Has your friend sold the hair yet?


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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #193 on: June 09, 2006, 04:10:33 AM »
I think anyone is marketable in the right way.  Jack is 38 and not a youngster but he is marketable because of his look, his attitude, the fact that he holds a fulltime job while competing in BB as a hobby. He is a college graduate and looks pretty damm good for a guy who trains part time while working full time. 

I agree 100% percent. But Wayne is on record as saying differently.

Let's Hug :o

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #194 on: June 09, 2006, 01:06:23 PM »
What did they have to rewrite? It's a less than one second clip of footage. Even taking into consideration they probably would not have the benefits of a non-linear system - I guess it was done pre Avid? - It would have taken 5 minutes.

Keith, we are probably all guilty of bolstering up our past, but you're going over board now ;D

Has your friend sold the hair yet?



I went in originally for the football player part.  When I got there just about every pro football player in LA was there.  When I went in for the interview all they did was slate.  They asked me what positioned Iplayed I told them I didn't play football I was a professional armwrestler.  I was leaving the next day for Vegas to work on a movie called Over the Top with Stallone.  They said wow thats great and thank you.  I thought that was all and that it was a waste of time.  2 weeks later my agent called me and said what did you say to them cause they decided to add armwrestling to the commercial and I got it.  That was a huge national campaign and even though I was on there for a very short time as were everyone that commercial paid me more than I am sure most people make ina few months.  And it took us less an hour to shoot after blocking.

Hair hasn't sold yet goes to auction in Sept.  I am sure you'll be there bidding away.

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #195 on: June 09, 2006, 08:11:12 PM »
Kevin, your last two posts have been mocking and very negative.  I gave you 3 posts with cold logic and real-life implications of shooting your marketing load too early.

The athletes who are interested in doing the shows have been encouraged to contact Wayne.  He is giving them the info they need to do shows.  Kevin, when you choose to enter a PDI qualifier, I am sure that Wayne will give you that information too. 

Kevin, listen man, let's take the insults out of this.  We're both better than that... Sorry I went there, and I plan not to again.

Kevin, you're a photographer.  I do not claim to know your business training, your experience in competition strategy, or your skill in market delivery of a product or service.  If I wanted to know if Nikon owns HP in megapixels, I'm calling you. 

However, I do not think you do not have a great understanding of how competition works in America.  Here, if Company A learns about Company B's future plans... and B can steal market share and resources/athletes/fans from A resulting in losses of million of $ and possibly overtake A as the monopoly eventually... then A is going to attempt to stop B.

The first response methods might be as simple as sending its employees on boards to bash B.  To start rumors about B's shows being cancelled.  To attack the character of B's mgmt team.  To even start pissing matches with B's outsourced labor, like 240.  This is knee jerk PR reaction.

Next, A will secure its own resources.  Send memos and Chics out to pass the message that A is strong, B is weak, and leaving A for B will be punished.  This is happening now. A will also secure promoters, photogs, web guys, sponsors, expo personnel, and anyone else who B might be using to make the event a success.  This is defending your entrenched position.

Then, and this is the case when millions of dollars on the line, A will develop greater plans to defend their industry position.  They will give money to vendors to be unavailable that week.  They will try to secure infrastructural resources which B will need. They will do other things, but I don't wanna give them any more ideas lol... This, of course, is A's attempt to attack B's "railroad", so that B is too busy putting out small supply fires to attack A any more, which subsequently stifles growth)0

Horton, you're a great photographer.  However, I do think that your immediate dismissal of any notion that the IFBB would utilize a few strategic moves (read: dirty tricks) to keep their position is, well, laughable.  People with the intelligence to get millions of dollars are typically bright enough to know how to defend those millions of dollars. 

Professor 240 has spoken.  My consulting fee will be in the mail.




So the PDI marketing plan for the Vegas show is to keep it a secret? Pure genius. If they are so worried about the IFBB sending out their goon squad to sabotage the show (like you tried to do to Shawn's show) ,how come they have no problems giving out details well in advance for the NOC? I'll tell you why because THERE IS NO VEGAS SHOW. You are not as good of a con artist as you think you are, those of us with brains see right through your bullshit.

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #196 on: June 10, 2006, 10:26:38 AM »
So the PDI marketing plan for the Vegas show is to keep it a secret? Pure genius. If they are so worried about the IFBB sending out their goon squad to sabotage the show (like you tried to do to Shawn's show) ,how come they have no problems giving out details well in advance for the NOC? I'll tell you why because THERE IS NO VEGAS SHOW. You are not as good of a con artist as you think you are, those of us with brains see right through your bullshit.


Well it's now only 11 weeks away and still no news. This show will go down in history as the least publicized ever.
Still at least we know that it has not been cancelled because "Onlyme" said so and we know he talks to Wayne.

Anyone fancy meeting up at the Hard Rock for lunch that day and then playing "Hunt the Show"?



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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #197 on: June 10, 2006, 10:35:36 AM »
LOL @ Horton resurrecting this thread every 48 hours like clockwork.

Kev, email Wayne and ask him yourself, dude.  You're pissing and moaning cause you don't know this info... have you asked the guy actually running the show yet?

Kevin, if you've been bitching for weeks about not having details, but haven't emailed Wayne directly and asked him... that's kinda pathetic bro. 

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #198 on: June 10, 2006, 10:40:34 AM »
LOL @ Horton resurrecting this thread every 48 hours like clockwork.

Kev, email Wayne and ask him yourself, dude.  You're pissing and moaning cause you don't know this info... have you asked the guy actually running the show yet?

Kevin, if you've been bitching for weeks about not having details, but haven't emailed Wayne directly and asked him... that's kinda pathetic bro. 

No need to ask Wayne, we all know the answer.
Only official "MP's'" are granted info rights.

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #199 on: June 10, 2006, 10:44:53 AM »
No need to ask Wayne, we all know the answer.

Awesome response.   

Horton, how did you get this far without Darwinism punching your card at some point?

When you were hungry as a kid, did you complain to your toys that you were hungry?  Or did you ask mommy for a cookie? 

When you wanted to get laid as a teenager, did you bitch to your diary, or did you go up to some girls and ask them out?

Now that you're all growned up, and you want information about a PDI show, do you complain on message boards that you don't know... or do you email the man running the event and ask him?

;)