Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.

[Dredlock Rasta]

Does God command something because it is right, or is something right because God commands it? Answer that and you'll figure out the streets. 

[Praetor Fenix]

Does God command something because it is right, or is something right because God commands it? Answer that and you'll figure out the streets. 

Must be the latter.

Implying "God commands what is right" would be an error since it indicates that God is not sovereign. There would be this outlying principle entirely outside of his realm of jurisdiction.
The monotheistic God MUST be all-powerful.

So something is right since God commands it, which makes Christianity all the more "petty".

Assuming though, that the monotheistic God is also all-knowing, then his command MUST be right since He is infallible by necessity. So basically, its really both AND neither, simultaneously.

[Dredlock Rasta]

Must be the latter.

Implying "God commands what is right" would be an error since it indicates that God is not sovereign. There would be this outlying principle entirely outside of his realm of jurisdiction.
The monotheistic God MUST be all-powerful.

So something is right since God commands it, which makes Christianity all the more "petty".

Assuming though, that the monotheistic God is also all-knowing, then his command MUST be right since He is infallible by necessity. So basically, its really both AND neither, simultaneously.

What? It is eithier or. First you said the latter, then you said both and neither? Which is it?

[DK II]

Must be the latter.

Implying "God commands what is right" would be an error since it indicates that God is not sovereign. There would be this outlying principle entirely outside of his realm of jurisdiction.
The monotheistic God MUST be all-powerful.

So something is right since God commands it, which makes Christianity all the more "petty".

Assuming though, that the monotheistic God is also all-knowing, then his command MUST be right since He is infallible by necessity. So basically, its really both AND neither, simultaneously.

Haha, i know why i stick to buddhism... 

[Praetor Fenix]

Haha, i know why i stick to buddhism... 

Desire Is The Root Of All Suffering ... great stuff! 

I tried to convince myself of that on my drive to the ER with a split lip and broken facial bones. It Didn't work 

Altogether though, I think its a great philosophy, since the only thing we can really control is our perception / reaction to external events. We will never be able to control the outside forces themselves.

Personally, I'm into Immanuel Kant these days.
Morality is in the very sense of "ought", not what is to be "ought'ed"

[DK II]

Desire Is The Root Of All Suffering ... great stuff! 

I tried to convince myself of that on my drive to the ER with a split lip and broken facial bones. It Didn't work 

Altogether though, I think its a great philosophy, since the only thing we can really control is our perception / reaction to external events. We will never be able to control the outside forces themselves.

Personally, I'm into Immanuel Kant these days.
Morality is in the very sense of "ought", not what is to be "ought'ed"

Kant, eh?
Never liked kant. Schopenhauer is interesting also, and Heidegger.
I read nearly all works of Nietzsche, and this is really entertaining. I love 'the anti chirist' i read that 5 times i think.
Zarathustra is great too.

[DK II]

I think the really bad part about christianity is that it's monotheistic.

That means, apart from the catholic church, all people go to hell.
Only christians are good pepole that can be saved.
All others are evil sinners.

You know what? If there are only these bible reading lame asses in paradise, i'd love to go to hell and party with the other buddhists and shintoists and hindus and whoever wants to party with us.

[240 is Back]

The September 11th terrorists felt their faith was just as justified and true as countless Christians consider their faith to be.  The one thing that both have in common is that their teachings are unproven and based on "faith".

you're making the assumption that you know who the 911 terrorists were...

[LuciusFox]

Good discussion guys.

I wish parents would just let their kids determine for themselves whether or not there is a god.  If from birth I brainwashed my kids into believing that all black people were evil and needed to be exterminated, my kids have a good chance of believing it - hell, it's happened before.

Indoctrinating your children in any manner at all is wrong.  You might say that a Christian couple are good people and their children will probably turn out ok, but that isn't the point.  The second you stray from reason and logic is the second you open the door to all kinds of horrible things.

The September 11th terrorists felt their faith was just as justified and true as countless Christians consider their faith to be.  The one thing that both have in common is that their teachings are unproven and based on "faith".

Plus, let's not pretend Christian morality is in every way moral.  I hate seeing these Christian leaders who hate gay people go on that "we love gay people" and all this crap.  I just want to say "shut up and admit you are prejudice you homophobe".

   Parents like to brutally brainwash their kids because they know that what they are saying has a good chance of not being taken seriously by a logical and freethinking adult mind. It takes much effort to overcome the brainwashing, but I'm glad that I have.

[240 is Back]

Conspiracy theory?

2/3 of Americans do not believe the theory put forth by the govt.

I would have thought that worldwide, at least that many people would have seen the holes in the story.

[LuciusFox]

Same here.  My mom has a hard time accepting that I have a better and more fulfilled life than the majority of Christians she knows.  She just doesn't get how I can be so happy and passionate about life despite not following her god.  This is exactly how Christianity is contagious because it gets people to think like she does where Christianity is the only way to go.

Conspiracy theory?

  Exactly. It convinces people that their lives are miserable because they don't have Jesus, when in fact, there are many areas of their lives that they could improve and they don't need religion in any way, shape or form. There are also the people who just "want to be safe." Christianity's greatest victory is using its doomday myths to inspire halfhearted allegiance from these people  

[240 is Back]

How do you as an American abide by the law when your government does not?

After the liberal party conservative scandal, I've decided I make my own moral system.  I would BE IN JAIL if I laundered the millions of dollars that Paul Martin did - yet he is immune to the law for some reason??

I'm sorry, but if my government can't set an example in following law and doing only what they consider to be ok, I will also ignore law and do only what I consider to be ok.

It just so happens that for the most part my moral system coincides well with the legal one.

there are actually a new generation of politicians running for office who are calling for a re-opening of the 911 investigation. 

change will come, but only as time allows it.

[LuciusFox]

Then when the Christians die they realize it was the Muslim god who was the correct one and there they are, burning in hell for eternity.

Oh snap.

Pascal's wager anyone? 

  LOL....Pascal's wager illustrates the lack of reasoning ability that has always been present in humanity 

[NarcissisticDeity]

Then when the Christians die they realize it was the Muslim god who was the correct one and there they are, burning in hell for eternity.

Oh snap.

Pascal's wager anyone? 

Matt FYI Christians & Muslims believe in the same God and they believe in Jesus as well , but thier take on the whole story is different .

[LuciusFox]

Matt FYI Christians & Muslims believe in the same God and they believe in Jesus as well , but thier take on the whole story is different .

  Actually, I've heard many Christians say that they don't worship the same God that Muslims do. Do they actually know what God they are worshipping? Do they get a receipt after praying so they can find out for sure?

[NarcissisticDeity]

  Actually, I've heard many Christians say that they don't worship the same God that Muslims do. Do they actually know what God they are worshipping? Do they get a receipt after praying so they can find out for sure?

See that is part of the problem Christians think their take is better than the Catholics and the Muslims and the Greek Orthodox , the Jews only follow the old testament and don't buy into the ' new ' one The Christians buy into the old & new testament . everyone loves the same God but hate everyone else .

[LuciusFox]

See that is part of the problem Christians think their take is better than the Catholics and the Muslims and the Greek Orthodox , the Jews only follow the old testament and don't buy into the ' new ' one The Christians buy into the old & new testament . everyone loves the same God but hate everyone else .

    Are you saying that Allah answers the prayers of Christians who say that they don't worship him??? Blasphemy!

[NarcissisticDeity]

    Are you saying that Allah answers the prayers of Christians who say that they don't worship him??? Blasphemy!

This is what I'm saying . 

[NarcissisticDeity]

Yes, so going to hell is a matter of semantics lol.

Hell , like heaven is a story in a book written by men .

[Ex Coelis]

Hell isn't about scaring people into becoming Christians, it's about personal responsibility.

We have the free will to choose between right and wrong. Our actions are our own and they have consequences, both good and bad.

Heaven and Hell are less about reward vs. punishment; they are the natural consequences of one's choices in life

[LuciusFox]

Hell isn't about scaring people into becoming Christians, it's about personal responsibility.

We have the free will to choose between right and wrong. Our actions are our own and they have consequences, both good and bad.

Heaven and Hell are less about reward vs. punishment; they are the natural consequences of one's choices in life

 LOL....natural would be going into the ground and decomposing. Actions having consequences doesn't imply that heaven and hell are reasonable outcomes in light of said actions.

[Ex Coelis]

You claim that you do not beleive in God because you have no "proof". You assert that because you cannot see, hear, or feel God he doesn't exist.

Consider love. You can't see love in the same way you can see your computer screen in front of you. That, however, does not prove love is nonexistent. It's possible to see the effects of love. You can see a couple together who love each other and in a child, the product of their love. You can feel love for another. Love is a complicated concept that cannot be easily defined nor explained - you just know when its there.

The same is true of God. Though you cannot see Him directly, you can see his work. The world is full of beauty and good. From a benign sunset to the miracle of birth, God can be seen everwhere. And yes, if you open yourself to Him you can feel the presense of the Lord inside you. You just have to believe.


And what prevents you from simply having faith? Pride? Anger? Fear?

Though it may mean little to you, I will pray for all of you - my misguided Getbig friends.

[Ex Coelis]

 LOL....natural would be going into the ground and decomposing. Actions having consequences doesn't imply that heaven and hell are reasonable outcomes in light of said actions.

Brother LuciousFox - lost the Way have you?

Jesus is the Light and the Way to Salvation. If you do not believe in Him then you are turning your back on the Lord. When someone's back is turned, how can they see the Light and be saved by it? Rather, all they see is darkness and despair.

[NarcissisticDeity]

You claim that you do not beleive in God because you have no "proof". You assert that because you cannot see, hear, or feel God he doesn't exist.

Consider love. You can't see love in the same way you can see your computer screen in front of you. That, however, does not prove love is nonexistent. It's possible to see the effects of love. You can see a couple together who love each other and in a child, the product of their love. You can feel love for another. Love is a complicated concept that cannot be easily defined nor explained - you just know when its there.

The same is true of God. Though you cannot see Him directly, you can see his work. The world is full of beauty and good. From a benign sunset to the miracle of birth, God can be seen everwhere. And yes, if you open yourself to Him you can feel the presense of the Lord inside you. You just have to believe.


And what prevents you from simply having faith? Pride? Anger? Fear?

Though it may mean little to you, I will pray for all of you - my misguided Getbig friends.

Why is it that when someone doesn't share your ' faith ' its out of pride , anger or fear ? why can't it be out of intelligence , commonsense , and honesty? why is there a negative connotation attached?

[Ex Coelis]

Why is it that when someone doesn't share your ' faith ' its out of pride , anger or fear ? why can't it be out of intelligence , commonsense , and honesty? why is there a negative connotation attached?

Ask yourself: what truly prevents you from having faith?

Often people are too proud to accept that there is something higher than them. It's difficult for some to concede that they are not the most important person in the universe. Pride prevents people from from putting aside their desires and putting God's will above their own. It is selfishness, greed, and pride that drive people to commiting acts of evil. Their pride won't allow them to surrender themselves to the Lord and allow Him to work through them.

Anger prevents a lot of people from believing in an all loving all knowing God. The evils and injustice's they see in the world angers them. They declare: "How can there be a God when the world is such an aweful place? If God was so great, he would stop suffereing and end all that is bad once and for all." Perhaps they were molested as a child or had a traumatic thing happen to them. "If God existed, why would he let this happen to me?" Thus all of their anger that has built up has also built up a wall between them and God. This blocks their path to him and prevents them from having faith.

Fear is another emotion that can prevent people from having faith. They are afraid that if God truly exists, they're perception on reality will be torn asunder. Some people are afraid to accept Jesus because it is more comfortable to deny him and live a life of sin. Having faith and doing the Lord's work are very difficult. Perhaps some are just afraid of getting their hands dirty.


When you accept Jesus, you cast aside all your negativity, all of your despair, and all of your pain. When you allow Him to enter your life and act according to His way, only then can you be truly fullfilled.

Your so-called "intelligence", "commonsense", and "honesty" are nothing more than words you use to deny what is in your heart. Jesus and the love of God is inside each and every one of you. You just have to choose to release it. You have to have faith.