Giving God the credit

[Bluto]

We see it all the time, wether it's Ronnie Coleman winning the Olympia or a brazilian footballplayer scoring, they all thank God, and give God the credit, not just some, but all... so exactly how does that work, do they not recognize their own work and effort, how does that feel to live a life when everything you do, failure or success, is in the hands of God and you're not responsible yourself?

And I saw a apparantely very religious guy going into a fight in mixed martial arts in UFC to some kind of 'christian rock' minutes later, his opponent entered to some kinda gangsta-rap 'keep on hustling' and just seconds into the match, the gangsta-rap guy knocked the christian guy out cold.

I guess God wasn't in his corner, huh? Or is this the time where he needs to sit down and reflect in his lockerroom that "there's a meaning to everything that happens" 

[YoMamaBeenLurking]

Bluto you either get it or you don't, it's as simple as that.

[Bluto]

Good answer. You can use that phrase whenever you can't answer or debate.

[YoMamaBeenLurking]

Good answer. You can use that phrase whenever you can't answer or debate.

Not here to debate you.  You either have faith or you don't.  There is no debate. 

[Bluto]

Does that mean you have to be born with it, is it a genetic thing?

[YoMamaBeenLurking]

I don't believe so.  I think that you're either brought up with a belief system and or something happens to you in life that flips the switch for you.  Just 1 man's opinion.

[Bluto]

Maybe it's about education and intelligence, or rather lack of, since religious beliefs are far more common in countries, cultures and people, that are behind in those areas.

[Butterbean]

We see it all the time, wether it's Ronnie Coleman winning the Olympia or a brazilian footballplayer scoring, they all thank God, and give God the credit, not just some, but all... so exactly how does that work, do they not recognize their own work and effort, how does that feel to live a life when everything you do, failure or success, is in the hands of God and you're not responsible yourself?

And I saw a apparantely very religious guy going into a fight in mixed martial arts in UFC to some kind of 'christian rock' minutes later, his opponent entered to some kinda gangsta-rap 'keep on hustling' and just seconds into the match, the gangsta-rap guy knocked the christian guy out cold.

I guess God wasn't in his corner, huh? Or is this the time where he needs to sit down and reflect in his lockerroom that "there's a meaning to everything that happens" 

I think perhaps people that have faith in God think that things they perceive as "good" that come their way attribute them to God.

Christianity teaches that we are all sinners w/no hope in ourselves alone, but through God (Jesus).  So when something good happens, knowing we are all no-good on our own, we attribute the "goodness" to God.

But we are all imperfect beings and wrong sometimes.  Sometimes we perceive things that are bad for us as good for us and may attribute something in our lives as good from God when it really is not. 

For instance, the 2 adulterous lovers who think their relationship is a gift from God in the beginning because it seems so good and right.  Later when lives are torn and they realize they can't trust the one that they are with, they know it wasn't "good" at all.

Maybe it's about education and intelligence, or rather lack of, since religious beliefs are far more common in countries, cultures and people, that are behind in those areas.

So you think that "Godless" China is behind in education and intelligence?  I don't agree.

Maybe you were referring to some 3rd World countries though.  If so, suffering does frequently bring one closer to God. 

[Bluto]

Christianity teaches that we are all sinners w/no hope in ourselves alone, but through God (Jesus).  So when something good happens, knowing we are all no-good on our own, we attribute the "goodness" to God.

Yeah and that's one of the most sick things about christianity.

But we are all imperfect beings and wrong sometimes. 

Or we're all perfect.

For instance, the 2 adulterous lovers who think their relationship is a gift from God in the beginning because it seems so good and right.  Later when lives are torn and they realize they can't trust the one that they are with, they know it wasn't "good" at all.

Or rather it was good, but it's not good any longer. Just because something ends, doesn't mean it was bad all along.

So you think that "Godless" China is behind in education and intelligence?  I don't agree.

For sure. The majority of chinas population or behind in education and intelligence.

Maybe you were referring to some 3rd World countries though.  If so, suffering does frequently bring one closer to God. 

I'm refering to the majority of the worlds countries and not only that, but to the people of those countries, the higher the education - the less religious.

[CQ]

I was raised in a 3rd world country, and still spend time each year in the 3rd world. In my experience they are pretty unreligious. I have no idea about statistics...this is just my experience....people don't really go around thanking a higher power when their kids are starving and they live in a hut....at least that I have seen.

[Butterbean]

Yeah and that's one of the most sick things about christianity.

A lot of people really don't like to hear that they are sinners.  Doesn't bother me to hear I am one because I KNOW it's true

Or we're all perfect.

Have you ever met anyone you consider to be perfect?

[Bluto]

A lot of people really don't like to hear that they are sinners.  Doesn't bother me to hear I am one because I KNOW it's true

Yeah but to have that view of say a new born child, that she's a sinner. That's pretty sick.

Have you ever met anyone you consider to be perfect?

Sure, we're all perfect and beautiful in a groovey kinda way 

[Historian Yates]

Speaking of UFC, I remember this one dude's comments at the end of a fight were, "God likes me. He likes him also, but he just happened to like me more tonight."

I really hoped he was joking, but seriously doubted it.

[gracie bjj]

Speaking of UFC, I remember this one dude's comments at the end of a fight were, "God likes me. He likes him also, but he just happened to like me more tonight."

I really hoped he was joking, but seriously doubted it.

that was yves edwards vs josh thompson,that was kinda funny i thought,i dont think god could care either which way who wins or loses the fight,i think he cares more on how you live your life outside the cage that counts.i do believe in divine intervention though in a sporting event

[Cavalier22]

so when someone dies in a ghastly car accident, burnt to a crisp with the children strapped in the carseat, i bet that person didnt thank god for what happened

[Lord Humungous]

Yeah but to have that view of say a new born child, that she's a sinner. That's pretty sick.

Sure, we're all perfect and beautiful in a groovey kinda way 

Bluto, Jesus tells us many times in the new testament to be innocent like a child. But like all men and women even children are burn with the sin nature of man. Its in every fiber of our being think about it- do you know anyone thats never cheated, stole, lied, lusted, etc etc. I dont- but children are innocent until they reach a point of maturity in their life( different for everyone) and they realize right from wrong, good from bad. Its at that point it is sinful and we all sin plain and simple

I agree we are all beautiful, but im afraid none of us are perfect other than Jesus. By design man is flawed, the day paradise was lost we all became flawed and only through the blood of Christ can we be made perfect.

If you believe that great, if you dont thats cool to. Free will!!!!

[Colossus_500]

Bluto, Jesus tells us many times in the new testament to be innocent like a child. But like all men and women even children are burn with the sin nature of man. Its in every fiber of our being think about it- do you know anyone thats never cheated, stole, lied, lusted, etc etc. I dont- but children are innocent until they reach a point of maturity in their life( different for everyone) and they realize right from wrong, good from bad. Its at that point it is sinful and we all sin plain and simple

I agree we are all beautiful, but im afraid none of us are perfect other than Jesus. By design man is flawed, the day paradise was lost we all became flawed and only through the blood of Christ can we be made perfect.

If you believe that great, if you dont thats cool to. Free will!!!!

Well said, LH. 

[Cavalier22]

if children are really innocent......then why do babies have to be baptized to get rid of sin?

besides, you talk about people knowing right from wrong...this is an entirely relative concept.  some poor sould growing up on the streets of New Delhi knows he must steal, rob, do whatever to survive.  You think he gives a shit about right or wrong or has even had the spare time to think about it? No, many people out there are trying to survive. 

Good and bad are both concepts that are learned, direcly or indirectly

[Lord Humungous]

if children are really innocent......then why do babies have to be baptized to get rid of sin?

besides, you talk about people knowing right from wrong...this is an entirely relative concept.  some poor sould growing up on the streets of New Delhi knows he must steal, rob, do whatever to survive.  You think he gives a shit about right or wrong or has even had the spare time to think about it? No, many people out there are trying to survive. 

Good and bad are both concepts that are learned, direcly or indirectly

The need for a child to be baptized is a church rule so you can throw that one out the window. Christ doesnt follow the church, rather the church should follow the Lord. Ive never said that anyone must follow a church rule.

Their is a big difference between stealing to say alive and stealing because you want something you cant afford or desire.All sins are forgiveable but not all are exceptable( you might steal to stay alive you dont need to cheat on your spouse to survive). remember that Jesus forgave the prostitues and and tax collecters and made them his people.

[Butterbean]

if children are really innocent......then why do babies have to be baptized to get rid of sin?

besides, you talk about people knowing right from wrong...this is an entirely relative concept.  some poor sould growing up on the streets of New Delhi knows he must steal, rob, do whatever to survive.  You think he gives a shit about right or wrong or has even had the spare time to think about it? No, many people out there are trying to survive. 

Good and bad are both concepts that are learned, direcly or indirectly

As Lord H said babies being baptized and the belief that this "clears them of sin" is not biblical.  But if a baby dies, it goes to heaven (I'm taking this from scripture re: King David's and Bathsheba's boy).

And as far as stealing to stay alive not being considered wrong by the thief:  If he walks right up and takes the object in the open, not trying to hide what he's done, maybe he doesn't know it's wrong.  But if he sneakily acquires the object hoping no one sees what he's doing/has done, don't you think he feels that its wrong?

[24KT]

And as far as stealing to stay alive not being considered wrong by the thief:  If he walks right up and takes the object in the open, not trying to hide what he's done, maybe he doesn't know it's wrong.  But if he sneakily acquires the object hoping no one sees what he's doing/has done, don't you think he feels that its wrong?

Are you refering to "Operation Iraqi Liberation?" This might be the wrong board. 

Perhaps, ...but his stealth may be more due to his awareness that someone may try to stop him, than to guilt.

[G o a t b o y]

Seems to me if you wanna give "god" credit when good things happen, you better be prepared to give him the blame when bad things happen.

The way christians operate vis-a-vis "god" with the whole credit/blame thing would be like the CEO of a corporation saying to his stockholders, "if we have a good year give me the credit, but if things go to shit it's this other guy's fault." 

[Dos Equis]

Actually, I blame Satan for the bad stuff.    

[Butterbean]

Actually, I blame Satan for the bad stuff.    

Satan and ourselves......

But sometimes things seem bad when we're in the midst of them and later we find out that it was actually good in the long run.

Romans 8:28:  "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him....."

[G o a t b o y]

Actually, I blame Satan for the bad stuff.    

That was kinda my point   :

The way christians operate vis-a-vis "god" with the whole credit/blame thing would be like the CEO of a corporation saying to his stockholders, "if we have a good year give me the credit, but if things go to shit it's this other guy's fault."