Learning Thread *Jehovah's Witnesses*

[Butterbean]

Some beliefs

Although Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs come from the Protestant and Adventist tradition, they do hold many beliefs that set themselves apart. The following are some key beliefs that make them different:

Jehovah God: Their God is the God of the Old Testament - all-powerful, all-knowing, and everlasting. They refer to Him as Jehovah - a true, personal, and exclusive name that all should use. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit: Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in the Trinity. As mentioned above, God is the all-knowing, all-powerful Creator. The relationship between him and Jesus is like that of father and son: Jesus is the first creation of God. He is fully human. The Holy Spirit is an active force which intervenes for God on earth. All the above mentioned are separate entities.

Satan, the Devil: Satan is seen as an enemy of God. He is misleading and afflicts pain and sorrow. Through spiritism, nationalism, and temptation, Satan leads people astray. The way to resist the devil is by learning about Jehovah.

Man: Jehovah's Witnesses accept the Genesis account of the fall of man. Man is blemished with sin because of the disobedience Adam and Eve showed towards God. Every man is born with sin (save for Jesus, who was born to a virgin). They also believe that man's soul is mortal - i.e. that when a person dies, his spirit (or soul) dies as well. In addition, some will experience eternal life when they are resurrected, in the flesh and soul, simultaneously.

Salvation: In contrast to some Christian traditions that believe salvation is achieved by accepting Christ as Lord ("once saved, always saved"), Jehovah's Witnesses believe it is possible to fall from grace. "The Bible sets forth conditions that must be met if we are to be saved from the effects of inherited sin" (Watchtower, 09/15/89). Accepting Jesus as Lord is essential, but failure to exercise fidelity to God's requirements can result in the loss of the gift of salvation. "elievers...will be saved to eternal life only if they continue to adhere to all of God's requirements...Those losing faith in Jesus also lose everlasting life." (Watchtower, 09/15/89. Thanks to James Long, Webmaster of Jehovah's Witnesses United for assistance in correcting an earlier statement regarding salvation).

Heaven: Heaven is where Jesus Christ and the other "True Christians" will live. There they will rule over the kingdom which will be on earth. Seats are limited: only 144,000 will gain access to heaven.

Hell: Hell is non-existent for the Jehovah's Witnesses. There is not a fiery-torment, claims Russell, because it runs contradictory to God's loving nature. Those who don't qualify for heaven or the kingdom that will be established on earth will simply dissappear, as if they had never existed.

The Great Crowd: These are the subjects of the kingdom ruled by Jesus and the 144,000. They will live forever on the new earth if they have chosen to obey God.

Kingdom of God: This unique government rules over the earth from heaven. Jehovah fulfilled His promise to Jesus that he would rule in 1914. When Jesus became king, Satan and his evil angels were kicked out of heaven and sent to inhabit the earth. This is how the Jehovah's Witnesses explain the wars, crime increases, and other "bad" things which are happening in our world today. All these things indicate that Jesus has established his reign and that we are in the last days. Within a certain time frame, some faithful followers, 144,000 to be exact, will join Jesus and assist him in his reign. After Jesus judges his people (some receiving everlasting life others non-existence), Jehovah will rule again.

Holidays: Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, birthdays, or any other holidays (save one). They believe these celebrations grew out of ancient false religions. Also, because early Christians did not celebrate these occasions, they believe they should not either. The one day they do celebrate, however, is the Memorial of Christ's Death during Passover.

(Beckford, p. 4-6, 113; Botting, p. 5-32, 187-194; Kephart and Zellner, p.291-98; Stark and Iannaccone, p.135-6; Watchtower: Official Web Site of Jehovah's Witnesses; Religious Tolerance Page)

[haider]

who here is a jehova witness? I've worked at a job with a jehovah witness, and even though I thought he was a whacko, there were still somethings in their belief system parallel to Islamic teachings.

[Dos Equis]

I was in Basic Training with a guy who was studying to be a Witness.  He had a manual that basically showed him how to debate people on certain Biblical subjects. 

They used to come to my house all the time growing up.  One day I let two ladies in the house, thinking I was going to debate them.  I was about 12 or 13.  They kicked my butt.  I'll never forget it.   

[Butterbean]

They used to come to my house all the time growing up.  One day I let two ladies in the house, thinking I was going to debate them.  I was about 12 or 13.  They kicked my butt.  I'll never forget it.   

My husband had a good "debate" w/a couple of JWs (but he was in his 30's ).  They certainly know where verses are located in the bible but in our opinion seemed to take stuff out of context.

who here is a jehova witness?

Hoping to find one on here to help us understand their beliefs.....


For instance,

since they believe that people can lose their salvation if "they do not adhere to all of God's requirements," -- which is impossible for everyone --  how are people supposed to "get their salvation back?"  Through their own works and deeds that the bible describes as filthy rags in regard to obtaining one's own salvation?  Or would Jesus have to die again?  

[Deedee]

I only had a discussion with Jehovah's Witnesses once.  Two young (maybe 18) well-dressed guys rang my doorbell and when I answered gave me back my keys I had forgotten in the lock when I came back from doing the groceries.  So, I felt compelled to return the good deed and listened to them for a bit.  I remember something about them not believing Christ to be the only saviour (they believe him to be only one of many created by Jehovah), and that only through performing constant good works could one be saved, but that even then salvation wasn't assured.

[Al-Gebra]

  Two young (maybe 18) well-dressed guys rang my doorbell and when I answered gave me back my keys I had forgotten in the lock when I came back from doing the groceries. 

I apologize for asking an off-topic question, but as I read this, I wondered about how Freud would interpret your actions . . .

[Deedee]

He'd probably find some kind of correlation/tie-in with hair color and go "aha!"

[Al-Gebra]

He'd probably find some kind of correlation/tie-in with hair color and go "aha!"

Come on, this is Freud we're talking about . . . keys, locks, doors. he'd have a field day. he also believed that no action is ever just randomly done. 
 
actually I'm surprised he never wrote about a scenario like this one. 

[Deedee]

hmmm... maybe I was looking for spiritual guidance and subconsciously gave out the "key" to open the "door" to my "soul". Also coming home from the grocery store I drove over a body of "water" signalling my "rebirth" and...I don't know Al-Gebra, help me out here.  What did it all mean...

[Colossus_500]

I found this article from the Christian Research Institute.  Did you know that the official name of this cult is the "Watchtower Bible and Tract Society?" 

Jehovah's Witnesses Selected Bibliography
 
According to the theological definition of the term, a cult is a group that denies essential biblical doctrine while claiming to be Christian or in harmony with true Christianity. While the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, whose followers are known as Jehovah’s Witnesses, claims to be the true representative of Jesus Christ, it denies historic and essential Christian doctrines; therefore, evangelical Christians do, indeed, consider it a cult of Christianity. Jehovah’s Witnesses deny the doctrine of the Trinity, the omniscience and omnipresence of God, the personality of the Holy Spirit, the deity of Jesus Christ, the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ, the physical Second Coming of Jesus Christ to the earth, the consciousness of man after death, eternal punishment for unbelievers, justification by grace through faith alone, and they distort the doctrine of the bodily resurrection of believers and unbelievers. In addition, this cult imposes social restrictions on its followers. For instance, Jehovah’s Witnesses are forbidden from receiving and donating blood, saluting the flag, military service, and celebrating birthdays and Christian holidays. The Watchtower severely reprimands and even “disfellowships” members who question the leadership or otherwise think for themselves.

The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is a cult that originated in the 19th century. The group began as a small Bible study led by Charles Taze Russell in 1872. Zion’s Watch Tower Tract Society was started in 1884 by Russell and his followers. Several books and other resources by Russell were published by this group, and the teachings in them, along with those of Russell’s successor J. F. Rutherford, serve as the foundation for the cult’s beliefs. In 1931, the group adopted the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society as its name to distinguish itself from splinter groups. Jehovah’s Witnesses claim they do not follow any man, including Russell; however, their beliefs are founded on Russell’s false interpretations and teachings. Today, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society publishes The Watchtower and Awake! magazines and numerous other publications that promote their beliefs.
 

[Deedee]

And of course, you're quoting from an unbiased, totally objective source, right?  More than half of what you quoted also applies to the Jewish faith.

[Colossus_500]

To me, it just confirms that JW's, just like other cults (Mormonism), seem to pull a little bit of truth here and there, and then seem some how put some kind of spin on it to get a following. 

I'll ask my mom's neice to send me some JW information that's "unbiased". 

[Deedee]

I found this article from the Christian Research Institute.  Did you know that the official name of this cult is the "Watchtower Bible and Tract Society?" 

Jehovah's Witnesses Selected Bibliography
 
According to the theological definition of the term, a cult is a group that denies essential biblical doctrine while claiming to be Christian or in harmony with true Christianity. While the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, whose followers are known as Jehovah’s Witnesses, claims to be the true representative of Jesus Christ, it denies historic and essential Christian doctrines; therefore, evangelical Christians do, indeed, consider it a cult of Christianity. Jehovah’s Witnesses deny the doctrine of the Trinity, the omniscience and omnipresence of God, the personality of the Holy Spirit, the deity of Jesus Christ, the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ, the physical Second Coming of Jesus Christ to the earth, the consciousness of man after death, eternal punishment for unbelievers, justification by grace through faith alone, and they distort the doctrine of the bodily resurrection of believers and unbelievers. In addition, this cult imposes social restrictions on its followers. For instance, Jehovah’s Witnesses are forbidden from receiving and donating blood, saluting the flag, military service, and celebrating birthdays and Christian holidays. The Watchtower severely reprimands and even “disfellowships” members who question the leadership or otherwise think for themselves.

I doubt you'd find many mainstream people willing to say that your average evangelical christian is unbiased.  Also most of what is quoted after that can also be applied to the the Jewish faith and I'm wondering if you feel comfortable calling that particular religion a "cult" as well.

[Dos Equis]

I don't think they're a cult.

[Deedee]

I don't think they're a cult.

While I find it annoying to have people coming to my door, I don't find JWs to be a cult group either. I keep feeling like comparing their belief system to the Jewish faith because, like the Jews, they seem to adhere to the teachings of the old testament, and as well, seem to have this good works/mitzvot system in place, among other things.  I find it fascinating to learn about this things...

[Al-Gebra]

While I find it annoying to have people coming to my door, I don't find JWs to be a cult group either. I keep feeling like comparing their belief system to the Jewish faith because, like the Jews, they seem to adhere to the teachings of the old testament, and as well, seem to have this good works/mitzvot system in place, among other things.  I find it fascinating to learn about this things...

are you jewish?

[Deedee]

No, lutheran protestant actually...  Grew up with many Jewish friends though, and then there was the ex, so I picked up a lot.

[Deedee]

Are you?  Did I offend?

[Migs]

hmm i feel a bit lost here sometimes.  What is different about lutheran protestants from say catholics?  I know ts off topic.

[Deedee]

I'm supposed to be doing homework  but I'll take a break. Google Martin Luther and you'll find the story. It's way too long to go into but Protesant stands for "to be a witness". In the early 1500's Martin Luther called for a reform of the Catholic church, there was trouble and intolerance, blah blah blah, and the Protestant movment was born. Lutheran Protestants believe in the infinite grace of God as their salvation.  That's the mini Cliff's notes version...

[Migs]

Well i knew some of the martin Luther aspect of it.  Just didn't know how some of the dogma was different.

[Al-Gebra]

Are you?  Did I offend?

No, i'm not Jewish . . . and couldn't imagine why your post would be offensive, if I was. Besides, i've seem a lot of anti-semitic crap on here. I'm just pretty run-of-the-mill protestant.

what's the homework? i thought you were a working woman (i know working people have homework too, but it doesn't seem like most people on this board have any 

Migs, about the luther stuff. he was a Catholic monk who was very offended when the catholics invented purgatory, so he came up w 95 theses against Catholic doctrine and went and nailed them to the door of the catholic church in wittenberg, germany, thus setting off the Reformation and Protestantism ("I protest . . . )

luther was an anti-semite . . . and some germans like to consider him their first.it was the recent invention of the printing press and the fact that luther's anti-semitic thoughts were printed that led to this claim. 

Now, all this info can easily be googled, but I'm doing a special today.  Christopher Marlowe--great English playwright and contemporary of early shakespeare--was a Catholic at a time when England was adamantly Protestant . . . so he had his Dr. Faustus--the man who sold his soul to the devil--hail from Wittenberg, thus revealing what he thought about the Protestant reformation 

[Deedee]

Wow! Well, that was a pretty good quick overview with a good tie-in to Marlowe. 

Anyway, I guess with not many Jehovah Witnesses as Getbig members, this thread was bound to take a few twists in the road, lol.

And yes, even working women are constantly striving to better themselves. It's either that or the hairshirt!   

[Colossus_500]

I doubt you'd find many mainstream people willing to say that your average evangelical christian is unbiased.  Also most of what is quoted after that can also be applied to the the Jewish faith and I'm wondering if you feel comfortable calling that particular religion a "cult" as well.

Jehovah's Witness and Mormonism are seen by Christian theologists as cults of Christianity.  Also, would you agree that there is bias in all facets of religion, whether you be Jewish, Christian, Muslim, or even atheist?  Religion is about man, not about God. 

[Migs]

No, i'm not Jewish . . . and couldn't imagine why your post would be offensive, if I was. Besides, i've seem a lot of anti-semitic crap on here. I'm just pretty run-of-the-mill protestant.

what's the homework? i thought you were a working woman (i know working people have homework too, but it doesn't seem like most people on this board have any 

Migs, about the luther stuff. he was a Catholic monk who was very offended when the catholics invented purgatory, so he came up w 95 theses against Catholic doctrine and went and nailed them to the door of the catholic church in wittenberg, germany, thus setting off the Reformation and Protestantism ("I protest . . . )

luther was an anti-semite . . . and some germans like to consider him their first.it was the recent invention of the printing press and the fact that luther's anti-semitic thoughts were printed that led to this claim. 

Now, all this info can easily be googled, but I'm doing a special today.  Christopher Marlowe--great English playwright and contemporary of early shakespeare--was a Catholic at a time when England was adamantly Protestant . . . so he had his Dr. Faustus--the man who sold his soul to the devil--hail from Wittenberg, thus revealing what he thought about the Protestant reformation 

Thanks Al, i knew of Martin Luther and what hew had done, just didn't know the main differences between Catholicism and Lutheranism and it Lutherist's doctrine has changed much.