Epicuros - Problem of Evil

[Hedgehog]

Something vital when it comes to deciding if there can exist, is how God could allow evil.

"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to.

... If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked.

... If, as they say, God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it,

    why is there evil in the world?"
(Epicuros)


What kind of God would allow all this evil?

YIP
Zack

[Butterbean]

Something vital when it comes to deciding if there can exist, is how God could allow evil.

"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to.


(Epicuros)

I believe that God can (and will eventually) abolish evil, but right now will not do it.

 If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked.

The 2 parts of this statement are not related so the statement has no meaning for me.

Is a parent wicked for disciplining a child who has stolen candy?   To a person who sees the kid getting a spanking/being reprimmanded but knows nothing of the theft, the parent may seem wicked.  To a person who knows of the theft and agrees there should be punishment/correction of the child, the parent will not seem wicked. 

This is just one example of why the statement should be dismissed.  Not enough knowledge to come to the  conclusion.

... If, as they say, God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it,

    why is there evil in the world?"
(Epicuros)


What kind of God would allow all this evil?

YIP
Zack

The kind of God that would allow it I believe, is a God that knows everything and has all the knowledge and information He needs to make decisions.   I admit that I don't...I'm not omniscient.

(and eventually He will get rid of all evil )

[Migs]

I believe that God can (and will eventually) abolish evil, but right now will not do it.

why do you think he doesnt want to do it now?

[Butterbean]

why do you think he doesnt want to do it now?

Because it's not in His plan to do it now.  In reading the bible, there are a lot of things that have yet to happen before the institution of the "millenial kingdom" here on earth....but also there will still be some evil going on then, but after 1000 years of that then SWIPE!  No more evil!  WHEEEEEE



Hey Zach, what does YIP Zach mean?

[Migs]

hmm, ok.  Thanks for the answer

[Hedgehog]

Because it's not in His plan to do it now.  In reading the bible, there are a lot of things that have yet to happen before the institution of the "millenial kingdom" here on earth....but also there will still be some evil going on then, but after 1000 years of that then SWIPE!  No more evil!  WHEEEEEE



Hey Zach, what does YIP Zach mean?

Yours In Polygamy






I currently got an opening, looking for a Fat Christian Girl to lick my neck.

















YoursInPorn
Zack

[Migs]

lol

[Butterbean]

Yours In Polygamy






I currently got an opening, looking for a Fat Christian Girl to lick my neck.

















YoursInPorn
Zack

I see you saw my "Please Help Me" thread 

OK, I thought it was Your in Porn but I wasn't sure.....

OK, Zack do you think that Porn is evil?

[Hedgehog]

I see you saw my "Please Help Me" thread 

OK, I thought it was Your in Porn but I wasn't sure.....

OK, Zack do you think that Porn is evil?

Of course not.

There are however problems within the Porn Industry.

Just as there are problems within other businesses. The actors and actresses aren't getting their fair share of the earnings.

I hope there will be some kind of "Seal of Approval" in the future on porn, so we as customers can choose to consume porn only from those production companies who pay their actors and actresses a decent percentage of the earnings.

I have however, very little opinion on the content. I just wish all these great actors and actresses would get their fair share.

And I'd sure like to see people stop being judgemental regarding them too.

YIP
Zack

[OzmO]

What is evil exactly and how can it function in a society? (like an evil empire)

[Mr. Intenseone]

What is evil exactly and how can it function in a society? (like an evil empire)

IMO, it functions for a short while then collapses.......I'm a firm believer in "what comes around...goes around"!!

[OzmO]

IMO, it functions for a short while then collapses.......I'm a firm believer in "what comes around...goes around"!!

I hear ya.  So why does it collapse?  Is there an answer besides Karma?

[Al-Gebra]

the theologians say that it's b/c the universe is governed by law(s), and that's where the problem begins. when adam disobeyed god, he destroyed the perfection that had hitherto reigned and brought about "evil." he chose to turn away from god. therefore god, who had given adam the power to choose, had his hands tied in a manner of speaking. to take away from adam the consequences of his actions would mean taking away the power of choice. but god loved his creation so much he was unwilling to undo what his creation had done . . . and unwilling to interfere.  a tough love, i guess. the law states that every action must have a reaction.

so that part i'm fine with . . . but then what about all the other times when god decides to flout the rules of the universe and perform "miracles." why not miraculously erase some of the more serious consequences of man's evil actions?  If the sun can be stopped in the sky . . . then surely famine can be abolished too?  caprices of the omnipotent, i guess.

[Hedgehog]

What is evil exactly and how can it function in a society? (like an evil empire)

In the large Monotheistic religions, and most religions, an evil is identified.

An act of evil would something like stealing, raping, wishing bad fortune on others, et al. Different degrees.

God is Almighty. He could erase all this evil, since it causes so much hardship.

If he doesn't, he is either not Almighty, or wicked.



You know when you see people crying about near ones dying "Why did SHE/HE have to die?"

If God exists, God could have prevented it. Why God didn't, is the big question.

YIP
Zack

[Butterbean]

God  could erase all this evil, If he doesn't, he is either not Almighty, or wicked.

I just don't believe that there is enough information to come to that conclusion.

And that's also like saying Hand is to glove like Foot is to ice cream machine.  It just doesn't necessarily follow.

You know when you see people crying about near ones dying "Why did SHE/HE have to die?"

If God exists, God could have prevented it. Why God didn't, is the big question.

YIP
Zack

Though we hate to be separated from our loved ones, everyone does die.

[Butterbean]

Of course not.

There are however problems within the Porn Industry.

Just as there are problems within other businesses. The actors and actresses aren't getting their fair share of the earnings.

I hope there will be some kind of "Seal of Approval" in the future on porn, so we as customers can choose to consume porn only from those production companies who pay their actors and actresses a decent percentage of the earnings.

I have however, very little opinion on the content. I just wish all these great actors and actresses would get their fair share.

And I'd sure like to see people stop being judgemental regarding them too.

YIP
Zack

Zack, do you believe that an "addiction" to porn can exist for some people?

[Hedgehog]

Zack, do you believe that an "addiction" to porn can exist for some people?

Of course. I know guys who quit watching porn because the felt the became addicted. If you don't see it for what it is, some fun entertainment, you could probably be addicted.


Why you ask, you got a sore right middle finger mon ami?

YIP
Zack

[Al-Gebra]

In the large Monotheistic religions, and most religions, an evil is identified.

An act of evil would something like stealing, raping, wishing bad fortune on others, et al. Different degrees.

God is Almighty. He could erase all this evil, since it causes so much hardship.

If he doesn't, he is either not Almighty, or wicked.



You know when you see people crying about near ones dying "Why did SHE/HE have to die?"

If God exists, God could have prevented it. Why God didn't, is the big question.

YIP
Zack

Zack,

what you're asking reflects the influence a certain version of Christianity has had. the version that suggests that God and good are omnipotent. Some of the major world religions--notably Hinduism--are dualistic. Dualistic religions suggest that good and evil exist together forever . . . . from order comes chaos, and from chaos comes order.  Shiva destroys, Brahma creates, Vishnu preserves. In such a religion, good does not ultimately triumph . . . although one can escape the kind of existence that experiences the effects of evil.

gods are beyond good and evil. they do what it is in their nature to do. Shiva will destroy. Brahma will create.


Some versions of Christians have been dualistic--the most famouse are the Manichaeans and the Cathars, who were considered heretic.

But the dominant version of xtianity suggests that God and good will triumph.  But his triumph must take the law into account: must do things according to the law . . . therefore he cannot intervene w/o undoing what it means to be human. therefore, since we spurned paradise in Eden, now we must live with what we have chosen.

[Al-Gebra]

god places himself under the law b/c he loves his creation.  the bible says that he feels our pain even more acutely than humans do . . . after all, every hair is numbered.

[Hedgehog]

Zack,

what you're asking reflects the influence a certain version of Christianity has had. the version that suggests that God and good are omnipotent. Some of the major world religions--notably Hinduism--are dualistic. Dualistic religions suggest that good and evil exist together forever . . . . from order comes chaos, and from chaos comes order.  Shiva destroys, Brahma creates, Vishnu preserves. In such a religion, good does not ultimately triumph . . . although one can escape the kind of existence that experiences the effects of evil.

gods are beyond good and evil. they do what it is in their nature to do. Shiva will destroy. Brahma will create.


Some versions of Christians have been dualistic--the most famouse are the Manichaeans and the Cathars, who were considered heretic.

But the dominant version of xtianity suggests that God and good will triumph.  But his triumph must take the law into account: must do things according to the law . . . therefore he cannot intervene w/o undoing what it means to be human. therefore, since we spurned paradise in Eden, now we must live with what we have chosen.

The Problem of Evil, as Epicurus formulated it, is based on the premise of God as good.

Generally, the Christian belief. The explanations for why God is allowing evil to exist, lack a lot of sense.

If you think about it, it seems most of these explanations are based on God not beeing almighty, as you point out yourself

But his triumph must take the law into account: must do things according to the law . . . therefore he cannot intervene w/o undoing what it means to be human.

God is not almighty if God cannot do whatever God wishes.

If God is almighty, then God must be wicked. That's basically it.

YIP
Zack

[a_joker10]

Your argument is that God is only Good.
But that is not the case. God is more than good. Would taking away choice be a good act?
Without hardship how would we know what is good?
Isn't knowledge much more good then ignorance?
Isn't freedom much more good then oppression?

Personally I think God is easier to equate with Love. God wants people to make the right decisions, but God leaves it up to us to do it. He also leaves it up to us to fix them.
Much like a father loves his son and wants him to do good work. Eventually the son must stand on his own and face the consequences for his actions.

God is love, God is jealous, God is angry and God is good.

[Butterbean]

And God is just.

[Hedgehog]

Your argument is that God is only Good.
But that is not the case. God is more than good. Would taking away choice be a good act?
Without hardship how would we know what is good?
Isn't knowledge much more good then ignorance?
Isn't freedom much more good then oppression?

Personally I think God is easier to equate with Love. God wants people to make the right decisions, but God leaves it up to us to do it. He also leaves it up to us to fix them.
Much like a father loves his son and wants him to do good work. Eventually the son must stand on his own and face the consequences for his actions.

God is love, God is jealous, God is angry and God is good.

Gotcha.

But still, why would God allow evil to exist at all?

YIP
Zack

[a_joker10]

The answer is not in God but ourselves.

Why do we let evil exist.

God has given us the tools to route out evil.
But we do not listen.

God enables us to do good things and live a good life. But we ignore it.

Having evil among us was a choice humanity made once we had knowledge.
Once humanity went against God. God quit protecting us against evil and let us make our own choice. That is my interpretation any way.

[OzmO]

Evil is really FEAR.

But how can there be an evil empire?  How does that exsist?  Do you get to legally kill people in an evil empire?